ummm...how do I post my kithen design??
Okay...now I'm feeling a tad embarrassed!

Ta Da...here is a picture of my current kitchen design!

Here are the appliances I am planning on using so far...
-Miele dishwasher
-sub zero 36" wide refrig with freezer on the bottom
-subzero drawer refrig for produce
-either the BlueStar 36" cook range or the Wolf 36"....suggestions???
-if i go with the BlueStar Cook top, do I get the BlueStar Gas oven and an electric oven or a full range with one electric oven???
-True wine refrigerators (3 sitting side by side by side)
-Perrin Rowe bridge faucet

okay...now it's time to go to sleep. Night night.

Here is a link that might be useful: Tamarakin's Albums

Where do you want to do prep work, such as wash and chop veggies for a stir fry? the stove is a little far from the sink for me. But I love the spaciousness. It will be beautiful.

Where do the doors go? (east wall inside of pantry and by the bathrooms, west wall by espresso machine and the pocket door)

Which entrance is used for groceries?

How much is new? Are windows/doors/walls being moved?

How much can be changed at this point?

Lyvia, I will prep to either the left or right of the sink....only two normal steps (1, 2) to stove so not too far. and the same steps to refrig. do you think this is still too far?

What goes on at the island?

There is a lot of controversy about two split dishwashers. Most people think they should be together, close to the main sink. I think if you have a clear idea of what gets washed in what it doesn't matter.

It would be nice to have a set down area right next to the fridge rather than behind.

regarding the dish washer, 98% of the time I will only need one dishwasher. (it's just my husband & myself) so that is why i thought the second dishwasher should be in the (beverage pantry) where I will have 3 wine cooler's side by side (54 bottle in each) and wine glasses above that. We enjoy our wine and serving it in the appropriate glass (cab in a cab glass, pinot in a pinot glass) so we can go thru a lot of glasses in one evening.....

Is there a dining room and secondary entertainment site on the left of the kitchen? The hallways with wine and espresso and dishwashers seems to be serving another space. Or is the nook actually the main family eating area?

I'm noticing the walk from nook table to either sink. If the refrig has a water dispenser, that will put water closer, but dumping water or grabbing a washrag will still be a walk around the corner.

What do you foresee as activities that would take place on the far end of the island?
Would a rolling cart be a better work unit so that if there's a single cook it could be pulled up toward the big sink? Otherwise, I see a lot of trays in your life...hauling dirty dishes from nook table to a DW, hauling chopped veg to range, etc. Also, how do you foresee tablesetting to proceed--where are the table dishes--in the pantry? That pantry opening will be quite a bottleneck if essential stuff is in there, esp. everyday ingredients and dishes. But if it's a place for your party dishes and a collection of stuff used by caterers, it would be closed off most of the time, I assume. Then you're back to the question of where the everyday stuff is stored in the central room and how it is accessed when you're in a zone (baking, chopping, cleanup, homework, flower arranging, eating, whatever).

You have some very interesting, very architectural details, esp. the twin doorways at the upper corridor section and the window view and french door at the lower and that comfy and inviting banquette, but I don't think this is a cook's kitchen unless the zones get a better relationship to one another. The work triangle is there, all right, but it's cut by an opening on every one of the three sides. If you stick with this as-is, plan to work up some protocols for moving about when more than one person is there.

I POSTED PICTURES OF THE FORMER kITCHEN BEFORE I OWNED THE HOME....
florantha...you are addressing some of my greatest fears. I cook all of the time and I want this to be easy peasy. everyday dishes will go on either side of the sink and in cupboards next to sink....
there is a formal dining room out the door of the wine/espresso room.
do you suppose the refrig should go in the pantry where the window is and we can move the window over???

Here is a link that might be useful: before pics of the home. Now it's been gutted to open up light from breakfast nook into kitchen....

Where do you drink the wine? Looking out at the view? In another room not shown here? In the corridor by the wine storage? where do the dirty glasses commute from?

Knowing that the finished food moves to the left of the diagram when eating in that dining area, I am now concerned about the path of prepared dishes which come/go and need to be plunked. There is a long commute down that hall to dining room from the range or island.

I understand why you're putting a dishwasher there, if it serves the wine area and addresses parties in other parts of the house and if the stuff stays there when stored. I assume that one DW is for cooking stuff and/or nook stuff and the other for other purposes--yes? And will you run them when full or when you need something that's in it? We're only 2 in our kitchen most of the time and we have to wait a number of days to fill the dishwasher; meanwhile, even though I have redundant spatulas and plenty of pans, I've handwashed the things I needed immediately because I refuse to run a DW without filling it. If I had a second DW, it would be over a week until either was ready to run.

I'm not able to get the old kitchen to load today. But anyway, I don't know how moving the refrig farther from the dining and nook areas is going to make life any better for you. It will just put it farther from diners, requiring them to walk through that whole triangle to get to the farthest corner of it.

Now remember: I haven't seen the old floorplan and don't know about walls and plumbing. Frankly, no matter how I mess with the space, I'm not happy with any changes I make. The twin openings along the top corridor might be killer features but they visually and physically create a barrier for counterspace and the freedom to walk. Your whole kitchen has neck corridors and niche-like areas that either dead-end or lead to another neck. It's almost a maze. I think I would open up the nook area for pantry and wine on one side of the kitchen and put the eating on the other side. Or put the range and sink in the middle and left and put the wine and pantry and refrig along the top wall with more floor space and less of a hall aspect there. I've got more ideas also, but they destroy the architectural features I mentioned above.

I don't know that it is so much a maze as it is a primary kitchen with supporting satellite areas. This is really a 19th-early 20th "big house" plan where separate functions were really separated, (ala butler's pantry, scullery, cold room)---although your "functions" are a bit different.

The major rectangle of the kitchen proper seems relatively uncomplicated and to the left of that is ok, (if thats the dining room beyond). I think it is the pantry/powderroom/storage/ovens area that is complicated.

I have to look at this a bit more carefully. Sometimes plans that look very clean and graphic layout wise are not necessarily more successful in real life than something that looks a bit convoluted in plan. This looks convoluted in plan, so it *may be, but not necessarily.

Could you post a plan of the whole floor? It doesn't matter so much if we can see the whole thing in detail, but it would be helpful for evaluation of adjacencies and locations.

Here's the layout you're asking for comments on:

{{gwi:1946249}}

Okay, now I can see your photos of existing kitchen. Not sure what the glitch was.

You are turning a former butler's pantry into your beverage area. You are turning an unrelated room into a new butler's pantry and are changing its doorway so that it enters a formerly dead-ended kitchen area. Your sinks in the new plan are in the same position as formerly. You are not moving the refrigerator or the sink or the range. You are opening up a former breakfast room so that it is a "nook" without some of the old walls, which shortens up the wall the refrig has been stationed on. You are either adding or retaining a door between the breakfast room and rooms beyond it. The windows and exterior doors are in existing positions in new kitchen. Is this all correct?

What is driving the kitchen redo? The wine area? The seating and eating area? the lighting? How well does the kitchen function currently? Is the island wrong or does it serve you well and allow proper movement? Is the banquette a solution to a problem or is it something you really wanted?

You say the kitchen is currently dark. Is this renovation (that messes up the work area) a good solution for a lighting problem? I see a lot of skylights in the plan. Could you put skylights into the old kitchen? Could you add a full-length window between the french door and that second painting, perhaps with a continuation into a ceiling skylight? Or just get a bigger French door that grabs that foot or so on the side?

Without hearing your opinion of your old kitchen and without knowing what you plan to store in that pantry, I'm going to shoot my mouth off anyway. Could you merge the old breakfast room and the corridor of the old butler pantry and put a passthrough-window in the existing refrig. wall in some way that brings more light forward and improves the handling of dishes? and put really classy built-in cupboards of china, etc. around the perimeter of the enlarged eating space along with that prep sink to serve the dining room also? And put the storage of foodstuffs back into the old kitchen area and just live without a megapantry? I suspect you want more light in the sink area. Why not just pull the whole sink section into the kitchen to be closer to the range and the french door? Make a fabulous working kitchen within the larger space and have an island-like separator between that kitchen and the adjacent conjoined butler pantry and breakfast room. You can put those wine fridges in the bottom of it facing the eating area or the kitchen, whichever you choose. And put brooms, chemicals, mops, etc. in a narrower closet or pullout at the old kitchen deadend. If you want to retain the corridor aspect of the old butler pantry, make some kind of a half-wall for part of the interior wall (is there a door there in the original house?). When you have parties, etc. you can use the entire breakfast room as a launching area for the dining room and cut across the space as you need to. You can also do some entertaining in this room because the guests and cook(s) can see and speak to one another through the pass-through or opening over the wine refriges. Dishwashers can be positioned between the two windows in such a way that they are closer together and can serve both rooms and take advantage of the small sink. The light and views of the bay window and the french door can be seen as soon as you enter that great swinging door from the dining room. You'll lose some of the cozy rabbit warren aspect of the historic house, but you can retain the feeling of two spaces with corridors, just rework them. As for architectural details, I suspect you can find ways to work up something spectacular. You seem to have an interest in gallery walls. Could the old butler pantry and kitchen sink area serve somehow?

bump

I'm sorry, but I'm going to be blunt...while it might look nice, I would not want to work in this layout. Everything is so spread out that it's almost a hike to get from one primary zone to the other...along with a bit of zone-crossing (e.g., have to go thru the Cleanup Zone to get from the Prep Zone to the Cooking Zone.)

To prep, you have to go to the refrigerator, then the pantry, and finally to the Prep Zone, which will probably be the left side of the main sink b/c there's no DW blocking it and it's closer to the refrigerator.

From the Prep Zone, you now have to get to the Cooking Zone by crossing the kitchen to get to it.

To get from the Cooking Zone to the Nook (to get the food from the WD & range) will entail running around the island...but that may be OK if you don't have to make many trips or you can stage the food on the island and then go around and take the food from the island to the Nook.

Is the DR through the door in the upper left? If so, that will probably also be a hike...even longer than to the Nook. How often do you plan to use the DR? If not often, then it may not be an issue.

To go from the Nook to the refrigerator is fine; but to get to/from the sink w/dirty dishes & wiping down the table, it's a bit of a hike.

The oven is hidden so you cannot keep an eye on it when in use. (I think that's an oven stack next to the Pantry...)

Where is the MW? Is it in the oven stack? Elsewhere?

Wine & Beverage Center...anyone using this Center will need to cross through the kitchen...right through the Prep Zone and, if coming from the right, the Cooking Zone & Cleanup Zone. This means you potentially will have people underfoot when trying to work in the kitchen.

You'll go a long way to getting your 10,000 steps a day in!

I really think this kitchen needs more work...

...What you should be trying to do... Relocate the Prep & Cooking Zones so they're close to each other.
Separate the Cleanup Zone from the Prep & Cooking Zones and situate it so you don't have to cross it to go to/from the Prep & Cooking Zones.
Find a way to protect the Cooking Zone (and range) from through-traffic.
The Beverage & Wine Center should be located so outsiders don't get in the way while people are working in the kitchen...most likely this means the periphery.
Try to put the MW and refrigerator on the periphery of the kitchen so it's accessible to both those working in the kitchen and outside snackers...without the snackers getting in the way of those working in the kitchen.
Be sure you have adequate aisles b/w work surfaces to accommodate at least 2 people working in the kitchen as well as through-traffic where needed.
Be sure to have an adequate aisle b/w island seating and any walls/appliances/counters behind and/or next to those seats.
Be sure you have adequate overhang space for island seating (15" for counter-height seating, 12" for bar-height seating).
I recommend a single level surface on the island...it's far more useful as a single level than a bi-level.

We don't mean to dump on you and make you feel bad, but we do want you to get a kitchen that ultimately will be very functional as well as look nice. When I did my kitchen, I had to start from scratch after all the comments on its dysfunctional layout. While I was initially resistant, I am so glad I took the time to listen & think about it...b/c in the end I realized everyone was right...and now I have a very functional kitchen that also looks pretty nice (at least to me)...but, I worked on function first since that's the real purpose of a kitchen!

Do you have a plan that shows the empty space? One that indicates what is original and staying in terms of walls and structure, and what is new work?

I am having a hard time trying to figure out the layout based upon where its coming from and where its going. The actual square footage is quite large, but while some functional areas seem too far apart, some seem cramped, and there is an awful lot of real estate dedicated to circulation.

If you last long enough you will hear me beat my particular dead horses, one of which is size: a Large kitchen in my neighborhood is 8 x 10 and typical may be 5 x something, and there is rarely ever room for real expansion--you need to make it work. So I have a hard time watching people have a difficulty getting a functional kitchen out of four times the amount of room.

I think I am a little more flexible about what "works" in kitchen design, people's own personal sense of ergonomics, and sometimes sacrificing a bit of ideal function for style, -- Some things may work for you, only because no one has ever told you that they shouldn't work or "don't work". And sometimes I think this should be left well enough alone. In my primary line of work (healthcare) this is known as "introducing a positive______awareness", but its really negative. This is when you inform a patient that a condition that they have is not normal or typical, and they go from not even being aware of it to being driven crazy by it.

I hope at the end of it all you still get a kitchen that resembles your original vision and has improved function.

bump...wondering how this is shaping up...any new versions?

bump--how are things shaping up?