Just FYI, in case you want to try this out sometime on your MAC. I find the print screen capability really useful, and I was sure there had to be some way to do it with the even more graphic friendly MAC. From tuaw.com, the unofficial apple weblog:

"In Mac, there is an easy key combination to achieve the same effects (as PRTSC) and more. Simply hit the Command key (the Apple key next to the space bar), the Shift key, and the number 3 key simultaneously. This takes a screen shot of the current screen and saves it to the Desktop as a pdf file.

Now, if you only want to copy a segment of the screen, hit Command + Shift + 4, and the mouse cursor will change from an arrow into cross hairs. Simply click and drag the cross hairs over the area of the screen of which you want to take a picture. When you release the mouse button, you will hear a clicking sound reminiscent of a camera shutter and a new file will appear on your desktop in pdf format. Most Macs these days come with a free copy of GraphicConverter, which you can use to convert the resulting pdf file into JPEG, GIF, PNG, or whatever image format you like the best."

Problems I see with your opposing island layouts:

(1) you have people walking behind your cooktop with only 24" counters and no overhang. This is hazard.

(2) In several of these versions you have moved your table into the walkway so that your table is blocking the traffic pattern.

I have gone around in circles on my layout, too, and I'm nearing the end (crossing fingers). What really helped me was to draw out my EXISTING layout and start from there. I then made a list of what I liked and didn't like about that layout so that I could prioritize what needs to be changed and what doesn't. Could you post a picture of your current layout and a specific list of likes/dislikes? It might help the rest of us when we're making suggestions.

Old layout of the kitchen. What I like about it?... absolutely NOTHING. I've never lived there, it's his house.

scootermom, in Photobucket, you can click "Edit" above your pic, and it will let you resize it smaller.

HTH,

Erika

Hmm...thanks Erika, I have tried that, but for some reason it has not been working on every file. Weird!

I dunno... I've been trying what scootermom said on my son's computer where I"m saving the IKEA layout as a bmp file. I saved it to desktop or it did that automatically. When I open it up from desktop, it opens up in the IKEA planner application not allowing me to capture it and get it to photobucket.

Doesn't matter. Most importantly, I have to work my down to a layout or two I can present to DH and the architect eventually

I like bmore's plan and I like plan F.

Plan E & G - I dont like the sink across from the CT. Too inaccessible by others and crowded.

With Plan F Im not sure about the fridge location. I would put it on the side it is acccessed most, from family room or from dining room.

I guess I'm a bit confused. I thought you were staying within the house's existing footprint to save money? Doesn't that also entail require keeping the plumbing in the current locations? If you're going to move the plumbing and knock down at least part of a wall anyway, why can't you incorporate the other room and do your double island plan?

If on the other hand, you're going to stay within the existing foot print, why not go with the lovely galley layout with the small L and the separate fridge/snack center area? Seems like a very workable plan.

The problem I see with Plan F is that you have created a major walkway directly through your primary work zone, and the cooktop is dangerous because no matter what side of the island someone walks, they are in harms way with no substantial overhang on either side.

Yep sarschlos... I see your point. I could switch things around some ... but I think I need to let it lie for a couple of days. Back to school tomorrow... that'll get my mind off of things!

sarcholos... I missed one of your posts. Yes, we're keeping the existing footprint and DH would love to keep all the existing plumbing. I'm amenable to that, however, as much as I like the layout with the 3D renderings, I"m a little concerned it will feel closed in when looking through the house from front (family room). It probably is the most logical and it's lovely. The more I look at it the more I love it. We're taking down the wall either way... and all the layouts take that into consideration already. Way back when I first started posting, I was trying to work around support columns and partial walls. When the architect told us we could lose the whole thing and beam it up for support for about 2K, I was ecstatic. So, everything from that point on had that anomaly removed.

I've been trying to incorporate what was the sunroom, existing kitchen, and dining area into one open kitchen with an informal eating area. There will be no formal dining room in this house.

Sorry if I've been making things confusing.

I know it's not the best and not even sure it's the layout I'll love but I learned how to post a layout from IKEA (had to do this all on my son's PC not my MAC) and am very excited! Thanks to scootermom for the explicit instructions.

I've been playing with the layout bmore helped (with other posters feedback of course!) create. Since the south end has been bothering me, I came up with the idea of using 12" deep cabs and then a 12" or 15" (accounting for the wall should allow me a few more inches) overhang. I reduced one pantry added an 18" regular depth cab and then 2 30" 12" deep cabs. Does that look stupid? I thought I'd like it better flush and it might give the kitchen a more open feeling.
Tell me what you think.
{{gwi:1945285}}
Tried... but couldn't draw the overhang. The planner was being tempermental.

I like this last one, but will you miss the extra storage? I'm not sure what you were planning on storing there, but will it still work with a 12" depth?

When I was in the planning stages it felt like I spent forever working on it, but now I regret that I hadn't found GW earlier. I've followed the evolution of your kitchen plans and know that your final kitchen plan will be just as perfect as the double kitchen design because you've taken the time to take everything into consideration.

Thanks for the vote of confidence supermom... I"m feeling like a ditz lately. It doesn't help that DH doesn't make himself available for all that much positive conversation about it but in his defense; I've been all over the board with this and totally totally obsessed.

This latest rendering has more lowers than I have in my current home but more uppers. I prefer lower cabs and as few uppers as I can get away with. I do love those horizontal uppers that IKEA has though I am going to price out Starmark through a discount retailer. I"m not sure what I'd use 12" lowers for. I could place casserole dishes in there (typically 9x13) or replace the 18" pantry cab and the 18" regular depth lower for a 36" drawer. I could also use the 12" depth cabs for pantry and store my extra on shelves in the laundry room? The other option is to go back to the notion of making the laundry room a walk in pantry (it's like 10'x6') and make all the left south wall showing as pantry pullouts lower drawers. If I did that then I think I could use the 12" depth cabs for food storage of items I use regularly. I have to think out what I'll store where now since I'm getting closer to a real layout that I know DH will accept without a problem since it doens't involve moving plumbing.

This looks ... remarkably similar to something I was trying on for a while. :)

Here are the issues I see:

1. Your cooktop is very close to the corner (with only 12" between the cooktop and the corner cab. You may be very skinny, so no worries, but for many of us, that would be pretty squeezy.

2. You only have 2' between your sink and cooktop, and that is taken up by the dishwasher -- not ideal prep space and could cause a bottleneck if your DH is anything like mine and decides that while you're cooking is the perfect time to join you in the kitchen and empty or load the DW to help out. Apparently the cleaning bug is similar to a cold or flu in our house -- it's catching. :)

Your aisle is wide enough that I would swap the DW and the large drawer bank to give you a bit more work space between sink and cooktop.

Also, I can't tell if that's a 30" or 36" drawer bank and a 30" or 36" sink base. Assuming you have the larger of both of these, you might want to consider going with a 30" sink base and a 30" drawer base, which would give you room for a 12" trash pull out (enough for a large single trash can or a smaller trash plus a hidden drawer for whatever). There are several large single bowl sinks out there that are very good sized that are designed to work in 30" sink bases -- Kohler makes some nice undermount porcelein sinks and I believe Franke and Ticor each have something that would work if you prefer a stainless steel sink.

I think those narrow 12" base cabs look VERY useful. Perfect depth for most bakeware/pyrex, dishes, spices and canned goods. Really very useful. I much prefer shallow shelves to deep. You might also look at using the shallow base cabs that have drawers. Although they're shorter depth than standard drawers, they would still hold towels, hot pads, small cooking items like measuring cups/spoons/mis en place bowls, coards, batteries, pens, grocery list type note pads, take out menus (hahaha), etc. etc.

I would keep a bit of a half wall behind your sink/cooktop run

Finally, I'm not loving that horizontal cab right next to the standard vertical cab for the MW. If you went with all horizontal on that wall or all vertical, I think it would look better. There are MWs that can be mounted underneath a wall cabinet so that you don't need the MW cabinet per se.

Well... skinny, I"m not.. kinda small... but I'll never see skinny! The L cab is a 36" so (and I'm not sure on this) but wouldn't that make the space 18" to the left of the CT before it turned? I'm up to any suggestions in lieu of a corner cab if anyone has one. The inset on the left is 15" deep and I'm trying to work with that. The cooktop cab is 30" for a 30" induction CT, the sink is 36" as I want a really large probably Silgranite sink, DW obviously 24", and the end cab I had at either 30" or 24", depending on how narrow I was comfortable with the walk way being. I could definitely swap the DW to the end of the run .

I'm planning on drawers for the narrow cabs I showed on the peninsula. The planner didn't have any for me to input there. I agree that I could make it useful. If I did decide to use it as additional pantry/pullout; then I'd probably use doors for that application.

Ya' think still do the half wall? I was thinking that I could extend the stone top 3" over the cabinets for additional space. When I look at the renderings with the half wall as opposed to not; I feel like it looks so much more closed in with the wall but I could be wrong.

You're right that it looks odd with the horizonal and vertical wall cabs on the same 5' wall. I was thinking that I'd put the speedoven/MW over there since I like to access the MW part for cooking. I could consider and 2nd speed oven elsewhere and put a MW over by the cooktop but (and I keep vacillating on this) I feel like it might be overkill with just two people in the home. The MW would be used daily (frozen bagels, reheat coffee, defrost meat, veggies, etc) and the speed oven would be my primary oven though I use a cooktop more then an oven. The standard size oven of the east wall would be for company, holidays, and so forth.

I feel like I'm finally getting closer to a functional and reasonable layout even though it's not the one I had in my "vision". I have to reconcile that the house itself and it's configuration just does not lend itself to what I hoped to be able to do.

I was thinking Advantium for the speed oven/MW but again, am open to other suggestions.
Thanks all!

I like the half wall about 3-6 inches higher than your counter top (I would cap it with your stone) to stop splashes/spills from the sink, and better catch splatters from the cooktop. 3" overhang is not enough to keep things from sliding off the backside of your cooktop or to provide a safe distance should someone walk by while you're cooking. If you had room for a large overhang, I might feel differently, but 3" will be just enough room for someone's sleeve to catch fire as they walk by. Of course, I have small children and I'm a klutz, so my first thought is safety around a high BTU thing like an induction cooktop.

I'm assuming you are not talking about the wall oven advantiums? If so, it won't fit in a regular 12" deep wall cab, and it has to be built-in. One thing you could try would be to use one of the deeper over-the-refrigerator cabinets instead of the blah looking MW shelf cabinet. Then attach your MW to the bottom of the cabinet. They come in 15" and 18" depths, which would make it blend better. You could then use side cover panels and decor/filler, to give the MW a built in appearance. If you use an OTR and just don't worry about the charcoal filter, you will also have "undercabinet" lighting beneath your "built in" MW. :) You could use a second refrigerator cabinet in the corner to give you good deeper storage in that corner. Good for bulky but light items like Costco size cookie jars, chip bags, etc., paper towels, picnic supplies, and seldom used things like platters and fancy dishes. Also could be tricked out to hold her vertical storage items like your baking trays and whatnots.

I like the advantium for a speed oven/MW BUT I was comparing it to the GE Profile OTR MW/convection oven and I couldn't detect much of a difference -- except that the MW/convection has a more powerful and intuitive MW (very important in our household) and the advantium was about 2X the price. They both claim to bake, roast, broil, convect, and MW. Since I'm house-rich, cash poor these days (thank you burst real estate bubble, no really, thank you), I would go for the chipper chicken, which still looks very nice in SS.

Check over at ikeafans in the mods/hacks forums. I believe I have seen people who used a narrower sink base (30") to fit a slightly too large sink, and once the mod was done, you would never know the difference, unless you looked for it with a flashlight under the sink.

I think you will want at least 30" between sink and cooktop for prep, since that will be the natural prep location.

I like this layout. It looks very functional.

I actually (originally) wanted the built in Advantium. I realize it has to be installed above counter height which threw a wrench in my original plans. The upper cab on the L is 24" deep. Is there another wall cab I could use to install a built in speedoven/MW (Advantium or not)? I thought a 24" deep cab could work over there since it's installed over 24" deep base cabs but not against the corner of that wall (15" deep). Would it look odd to have two cabs adjacent that were different depths?

I love the prep space over by the frig/oven wall... wish I could come up with something similar for the induction. I had one layout that had the cooktop over there but then that would require my putting in a prep sink. It seems like just too much "stuff" for not a huge kitchen which has only one (me!) primary cook.

I"m getting so tired of this stuff. I wish I could get to fun part where I'm shopping for granite and stressing over faucet height.

"I"m getting so tired of this stuff. I wish I could get to fun part where I'm shopping for granite and stressing over faucet height."

You and me both! I've been at this since for a year now and am no closer to finding a happy solution. What I really need is a whole lot of $$$ and a full remodel. Since we're far short of that, everything feels like "settling," so I just can't make any decisions at all (it feels like a waste of money since I know it won't really make me happy anyway).

Sorry -- I thought you used the MW cab -- it's a 12" cab with a deeper shelf, not a 24" deep cab. The only 24" deep wall cab that ikea makes is for over-the-refrigerator. You can definitely use one of those for the advantium, but the tallest cab they make for that is 24 inches, which isn't ideal. But here are some options for dealing with that:

1. Ikea has a single oven tall cab that has drawers below and cabs above. It comes in either 24 inch or 30 inch versions. Because I think of ikea cabinets as sort of legos that you can build anything you want with, you might consider putting in a pullout counter/cutting board (maybe get a stainless steel one or one of those enamled steel things like they have in hoosier cabinets) behind one of the drawer fronts to give you counter space there when you need it, while keeping the oven at a better height.

OR

2. Use the 24X30X24 over the refrigerator cabinet. Hang it lower than you would normally. Then hang one of the 9wX 30hX24d open cubbies sideways over the oven cabinet so that it is hung 9 high X 30 wide X 24 deep. Use the cover panels and decor to trim the whole thing out to be a full 39" cab. The cubbie could be used without the interior fittings so to hold your trays. :)

Gee sarchlos... I'm going to rename you an Ikeaguru! I'll have to digest that info to envision it. Right now I'm stuff to the gills and feel sick from too much sushi! I'll put this on paper tomorrow and look at it.

I really wish I had a viable layout so I could price out something else to compare to IKEA. I know I've mentioned this but some people on this forum purchased kitchen cabs through Merramac Kitchens and Floors at amazing discounts. If I remember correctly; they said it wasn't much more then IKEA at all. If that's true, it would give me more options due to greater flexibility with sizing. UGH... I'm not having fun anymore.

If I were just to tweak the existing layout and keep the sunroom a living area and put the pantry back into the old laundry room I can up with this. I would back cook/sink run with a wall and run the granite over that curving into an overhang for 3 stools. The eating overhang would be 56" long; easily fit 3 stools. I prefer not to do bi-level in spite of splashing issues. I figure with the added depth to the countertop; it'll be fine. I plan on a deep sink. Anyway; before I get too detailed, tell me what you think.

Honestly, I don't like the table there. It's smack-dab in the way. People will have to walk around it and the chairs -- sending them into your kitchen work area -- to get to the sun room. Your sun room looks large enough to hold your table and chairs and a sofa/comfy seating area.

Your back wall area looks fine, but I would use that recessed area where you have the table for a wall of pantry; keep your laundry room, and keep your table in the sun room. Just think about all that lovely storage from a pantry wall. You could make it a pantry closet so that you're not paying a premium for cabinets (and that would give you better storage flexibility, too). But keep that table out of the walkway.

The other thing I would do, since you have a nice wide 6' aisle, is add a bit of an L to the end of the cabinets on the fridge wall for added counter/work space.

What happened to you lazy susan? Have you seen the new ikea susan? It's very nice. I can't wait to get my hands on one of those and ditch my blind corners.

He loves the sunroom for laying around and hanging out. It's the prettiest area of the house. It was brought up that there is alot of space that won't be used as frequently or enjoyed in the application it could best be enjoyed in (If that makes sense). So... I was trying to see what I can come up with. If we were to decide to keep the sunroom for lounging and with such a small kitchen I'd rather have the pantry outside the work area and maximize counter space. I'm still open on the lazy susan. Someone had given the idea to open the cab into the adjacent room. That way I could have a long lowered prep space. I'm assuming if I had the lazy susan that I'd shorten the prep space from 3' to 2'. I'd like to incorporate BB somewhere but that's a detail.

He's always had his dining table in that space with the old layout I showed above of the existing kitchen. There was also 2 bar stools by the little peninsula. There was no space for sure but people managed.

The sun room is 10' by 15'9"L. The table is 42" round without the leaf. I don't know if a comfy sitting area would fit. I mean if it's gonna be a sitting area; then it might as well be one you can be comfortable in. Anyway, you guys tell me if that could work. I dunno...
Please try and look at this as if the sunroom will be a sunroom for hanging and tell me if the layout works.
Thanks,
Elyse

Are you married to the table? What about a convertible coffee table / dining table. Most have a very contemporary look to them which would go great with most ikea door styles. Here's a more traditional look. DH could have his lounge about sitting area which could convert to a dining area at meal time and you could have the larger more functional kitchen that would make you happy.

Hi laxsupermom. I have to admit, I think those tables are very very cool. It could be tempting... but I really love my dining room table. I had been stalking it on the Lexington Furniture web site for like 2 years and then they discontinued it. When it was time to get a table I found something else on Craigslist and figured that would be that. Then, one day , I was walking through Homegoods and there it was... MY Liz Clairborne Lexington Furniture table that I had wanted for 3 years selling at a discount store for $400. The recommended retail was $3000 more then that. I found the chairs on ebay and had them shipped from NY to Florida and then refinished them myself. So I guess it's the story it tells as much as it is the style I loved that makes me fell attached to the table and chairs.

I"m still working out my thougts and DH swears that when the wall is removed and I see the space; I"ll find a way. He's very very very slowly gaining some willingness to tweak his perspective as well. The house is way smaller then I'm use to but we should be able to make a informal yet traditional eating area, kitchen, family room and small sunroom area work in a 1500 sq. ft. home for 2 people. Thank good ness I"m too stubborn to get discouraged. I'll get there yet!
Thanks,
Elyse

Here is the closest I could get to Bmore's plan:

Here is Bmore's plan, but with the family room peninsula shorter than the sink/stove run:

Here is a 2 island variation of that plan:

I can change the island face and the vent to match the older 2-island plan if you think it would help.

Well in that case, you definitely have to keep the table. I'm a retail stalker, too.

Hey rhome... I hope you enjoyed your time with all your company. He strongly dislikes the idea of losing the sunroom for primarily just a table. I'm so sorry... you must have missed the Sat, Aug 23, 08 at 17:39 post. I hate that fact that you spent the time and I really really doubt he'd want to budge on that. The more he looked at all the layouts; the more convinced he's become that we'd be losing the most valuable space in the house for not maximum gain. He wants me to wait till he removes that big fat bearing wall (the one that promoted all the layouts from day 1) and see how much it will open the space and make it workable. I contend that linear space is linear space and even though the wall removal will open it up visually; it won't net me more counter space. It's difficult because though he tries to understand he doesn't really get why a layout like he had won't work since it worked for him for years; even when he threw big parties. For example, his range is at the end of the northwest wall right ends at the door... no counterspace to the left. He keeps saying, "but you have counter on the other side". Then he said, why can't you just roll a table there when you want to prep. I really don't think he's trying to make me miserable; he 's a very practical guy and looks at it from a construction let's use all the mechanical stuff that's there perspective. I'm not excusing... just explaining. This whole thing is becoming way too devisive for me. Anyway... I've been playing with corner sinks, even asked if he'd considering removing the 5' wall and extend the 6' into the laundry room pantry. When I draw that; I don't even like it because it appears dark remote and gloomy even on paper. We can't put a window in there.

We're discussing dual fuel vs. induction. There are gas lines running to the house though he currently has electric. We received notification that the gas lines could be upgraded and readied for just about free. I don't know how much it would cost to have the electric to the house upgraded for the induction.

I wasn't going to post any more layouts till the wall gets removed over the next few months but I was playing tonight . The corner sink layouts I did are too dumb to even post but it helped me to visualize it to draw it out. This one is about the same as the one above I posted. I don't think there's much more I can do in the space to make it work. I could push forward the sink cook run a foot ( he mentioned that) but it makes that corner all funky and I don't think worth the effort. I would make the sink/cook run 30" deep to avoid splash/cook issues.

Any feedback on dual fuel from those who have would be appreciated. The searches I did led to toward DCS or Wolf. I know nothing about the whole burner thing (sealed, shapes, etc.) The dual fuel vs. induction decision might impact whether I do UC oven with Advnatium or a DO setup.

Warning...I am miffed on your behalf and getting into something that is none of my business. But, I still wonder how many sitting areas the 2 of you need, how many rooms he gets to call for his own purposes, and why you don't get to make the calls for the kitchen. I remember him saying you could have the kitchen any way you'd like, because he wanted you to be happy since you were the one moving into a smaller space...But I've had my rant now, and it's all between the two of you.

You are right that the removing of the wall won't change the dimensions and how things fit. The paper, drawn to scale, doesn't lie, unless something's measured wrong.

Sarschlos pointed out very correctly, in my opinion, that it is so tight around the table in that last plan that it will be difficult to get through to the beloved TV area....oops... a little leftover from the rant. ;-)

Any chance of giving up any of the family room to kitchen or dining space?

I have one more idea for this space, but not sure yet if it will fit...

I think the pantry area by the table should be uppers and lowers so you have a buffet area and a place for the coffee pot and toaster. You might need to use some of the laundry for pantry space in that case.

I'm sorry I didn't stick to kitchen business and keep my thoughts, otherwise, to myself!

rhome... please don't feel the need to apologize. I put myself and a window to my emotions out there on this forum. It was just the tip of some very complicated and mixed feelings that spewed forth in a place where we sometimes let go because we are roaming without restraint in cyberspace.

The above plan looks great... it gives the open look and would most definitely address all issues. I don't know where this whole thing will go. We have more talking to do and it goes deeper then where I'm placing a stove or frig. Make no mistake; I love this man with all my heart and we have so much fun together. He's the most non-controlling man I've ever known but his need to be prudent, even when presented as a way to preserve sanity and $$, has deeper ramifications for me. I want a carefree and early retirement as much as anyone and I don't value "stuff" more then I do the people in my life. But I'm sad, frustrated, and feeling stifled. We both contend that these issues are not insurmountable. I certainly pray that is the case.
Thanks for everything you've done for me. Your support and commitment to all "kitchen causes" is greatly appreciated by me and many many others who pass thru this forum.
Elyse

Elyse: I've been following your kitchen layout issues, and I feel for you. Like you said, it sounds like this does go deeper than where you're placing your stove or frig. If I remember correctly, isn't this his house, and not yours? And isn't he your BF and not your DH? If so, he who owns the house, gets the power and choices. I apologize in advance if I am confusing you with another poster. Good luck with everything, I know that your kitchen will be beautiful whatever you decide to do!
Barb

Barb... it's me and he is my long time BF, not DH. And yes, it's his house but he insists that it's intended to be ours. We live in my home currently and I've always followed the notion that he could do whatever to wherever he pleased. Granted, my house is already fixed and decorated so there was no real renovation to be done. We did do an outdoor kitchen together. He has one bedroom for his music stuff and I gave up the 2 garage for his guy stuff since my yard is not as large as his for a huge storage area. So I guess if he won't take my money and admonishes my suggestions as too extensive then perhaps it'll never really be my home too. And that my friends is what I'm trying to reconcile .

Elyse:
After reading all of your posts, I got the feeling that you were having a tough time, and not with your kitchen. It sounds like you're a warm, generous person. My intentions are all good. Believe me, I am not speaking morally regarding the BF vs DH subject. Perhaps one of the differences is that the DH will give in just a little more to make a DW happy. It's sometimes a tough balancing act to give and take. It sounds like you are at a bit of a crossroad. Maybe both of you could work this out with an outside source. I wish the both of you the best of life, and I'm sure things will work out. Good luck!
Barb
OK, back to kitchen talk!

I like Rhomes layout but I dont see where you have much convenient storage space. If thats the space you are limited to, I would forego the counter seating, separate cook top & range, put in an OTR MW and use the places freed up for storage.

Not to bash OR defend your SO but you need to work together and respect each others priorities. There are several things I wanted and could have fit in if my husband had gotten on board with combining the kitchen and nook but retaining that was important to him. In return, he gave me free reign with budget and cabinet style, among other things Im forgetting at the moment.

Are you still planning on using IKEA? I am too and its not because I cant afford to go all out but because this isnt my dream kitchen and we plan to renegotiate in 5 or 10 years. It should function well within the constraints and will be a huge improvement but I had to give in on some of the battles for things Id never had and might not have missed. I.E. wall ovens, a warming drawer, MW drawer, DW drawer next to the prep sink, to name a few though I wasnt necessarily asking for all of those. LOL

So, my advice to you is to install a "disposable" kitchen around a couple of your priorities that is at least a step up from your current arrangement and plan a redo further down the line. Once youve been in the house for a while, either of you could come around to the others way of thinking and expand on it. I prefer to give rather than receive the I-told-you-sos, so I try to live well in the parameters initially offered to me. :)

I like rhomes layout too backinthesaddle. I"m sure you'll end up with a beautiful IKEA kitchen that you'd be able to enjoy for even longer then 5-10 years if you choose too. Our situation is a little different. This is suppose to be our ... let's not call it "forever" but how about "remainder house". So I would like it to be my dream kitchen within the confines of the existing space since I can personally afford for it to be so. I've certainly reined in my dream since it's so easy to get carried away especially with the influence of some of the spectacular kitchens on this board. With only two of us I certainly don't need to design a kitchen that requires a prep sink, warming drawer , or other niceities that aren't really necessary. I do think I should be entitled at this stage of my life to choose location of the appliances and the nature of the appliances. I'm sure it'll all work the way it's meant too. I can't wait to see your kitchen evolve!

One more piece of amunition to add to your arsenal (LOL) is, kitchen renovations are expensive and of the most costly are cabinets and appliances. Moving a gas line or sink may cost a bit and may not be very DIY friendly, but if it makes or breaks a functional kitchen then I personally would rather scrimp on other things to make that happen. IMHO, I see no great reason to invest in a poor layout. You're already going with cheaper cabinets. But it is you who has to determine what your willing to compromise on. Good luck :)

I know mom2... and thank you for thinking of me. When the right time for discussion comes again; I'll lay my position and feelings very clearly; a piece of which is the exact point you're making. I so don't care about $$ and would as easily and gladly lay out 40K the same as I would 10K. I've worked hard my whole life and solely supported, raised, and educated my boys as my primary purpose. I'm entitled to prioritize some things for myself and it doesn't have to make sense to another but should be respected. Thanks for your words of support.

Also take heart, combining households and renovations are a couple of the most stressful times for a couple and you are trying to do two at once. My DH and I never argued more than when we first moved in together and now during our renovations (of course me going to grad school may have something to do with the later :)).

I'm just not a fan of controversy since I'm so easy going. We've been together for over 8 years and living together for over 4 years and both our kids are grown. I guess life ain't ever easy!

Our situation is a little different. This is suppose to be our ... let's not call it "forever" but how about "remainder house"

What does that mean? The remainder of your relationship? Id hope that if you are going through all this, a breakup is not factoring into the plan.

My point about scaling down is that you CAN have most of the things you want if you place them creatively. I dont know much about separate cook tops and UC ovens but cant they be used in the same spot? I dont care for OTR MWs but if you dont mind, theres an upper cabinet free for storage.

Lots and lots of people have smaller footprints and/or budgets to work with and they end up with fabulous kitchens. Dont get wrapped up in the dream if it ends up causing you nightmares.

I remember he has some kind of shop or workroom. I doubt he'd like using it if you, who don't have the same interest and expertise, designed the layout and chose the tools/instruments...and maybe shoved everything closer together so you could fit in a comfy chair for yourself by the window for the best light. Maybe if he likes the kitchen, as is, he is going to take over the kitchen duties when you move there as part of your new life? ;-)

Maybe you've approached this wrong...Maybe collect pictures of European ranges and gemstone counters and igloochic's $10K faucet...Then when you 'scale back' to what you want, it'll seem like a bargain! :-D

I completely understand how he may be a wonderful man outside of the impression we're getting, as I know I could make my dh sound bad, and he the same with me, probably even justifiably, depending on the circumstances. We are all occasionally guilty of being set in our ways and/or a bit selfish. Hang in there.

By remainder house I meant for the remainder of the time we choose to live there. The plan is to stay there till they have to wheel us into assisted living (meaning "forever house") but you never know what changes life may throw you. And yes... I can place a UC oven under a cooktop and would even consider a range. There plenty of options I know and I've been and will continue to be disproportionitly(?) flexible. We've scaled down tremendously and I'm fine with that. I don't need much. But I do want the space to feel like mine and function well since I love to cook and look forward to doing even more nesting between our travels when I retire. I know on the surface it seems as if a relationship is being pitted against a kitchen layout... I promise you, I'm not that shallow. Thanks backinthesaddle for your insights.

I wasn't trying to say you are shallow or greedy. Perhaps the best way to convince him you need more space is to start out small and show how A, B and maybe C would be a huge improvement.

Oh no backin... I think it could almost sound shallow myself on paper; not that you implied it. I'm VERY appreciative that you take the time to try and give input and help out! :-)

Hey rhome... I missed your post from Tue, Aug 26, 08 at 16:21. That's a really well thought point and one he'd appreciate. He's so afraid that I'll hurt myself with his power tools (justifiably so since I tend to dive into things and he's SO practical and deliberate in his approach to things) that he doesn't want me near them. When he moved into this house I gave him the 2 car garage and he built workbenches, recycled tool boxes, built a wood loft, and left space for a small older car he bought. I didn't care. I think I'll use your example to help make my point as it would personalize my perception for him. Thanks for being so supportive.

It does help to be speaking the same language...Or at least I hope it does! Big hug to you and I hope this settles out to be happy for both of you. I'm betting he just doesn't picture how it will be if you follow through with your dream...How much better it can be. He'll probably be amazed when it's finished.

Gee... I must be going blind or slightly brain dead. I missed bbtondo's (Barb) post from Tues. as well. I didn't want to let it go by with out thanking you for your good wishes. Yep... there's stuff to work out from my perspective. I'm an extraordinarily strong girl and I'm confident that one way or the other it'll work out fine. There may be a crossroad ahead for me but certainly not a wall.
Thanks so much.