OK... first time all day that someone is not screaming or crying in my house. Crazy day today. Lavender- I wish I could see more pics of that kitchen. It's great. It even has the same cabinet style/color, island color, and flooring that we are planning to have in our kitchen. The 1 car garage is 15'10" wide. Is that big enough to steal space from it? I'm pretty sure we are limited by the property line restriction on the sides of the house. Our lot is 110' wide and 235' deep with untouchable natural green space in the back 1/3 of it. (100'x235' treed natural green space on the west side that is owned by the development.) Bump outs are a bit tricky because of our lot limitations. We hesitated to bump the kitchen out too much because it will limit our backyard patio and landscaping space. A lot of the odd bumps in the floorplan is because during the design process we did a 1' bump out of the kitchen, and several feet to the music room. Both rooms used to be even with the rest of the house. Lyfia- we put the master in that location of the house because of the view. :) Plus, I've never liked the idea of the master bedroom or bath being on the front of the house. Peytonroad- Thanks! Someone else pointed out the wasted space in the mudroom/powder room area. I'll have to keep thinking about that one. You all have given such great ideas and things to think about! I'm not sure if I mentioned this on this thread, but we've hired an independent architect to oversee the build. I'm meeting with her soon so that we can go over any of my concerns. This thread has been wonderful to collect ideas and issues to bring to her. Would love to hear any other ideas if you think of more. You all have been wonderful! Thanks so much!

I have an eat in kitchen with a solid wood Ethan Allen Table that I bought 12 years ago when I moved here that had sides that go down to make it a little table for two. I decided to invest in a good table that can be very expendable since I am using my dining room as part of my home office. I can make the sides go up to a round table that is 42" wide with the 4 matching chair and the table sits 4. Add the leaf in the middle of the table and the table become an oval and fits 6 people comfortably without bumping into each other. I am not sure when I renovate my kitchen and change out the laminate counters if I am going to extend the counter top on the bar area to allow seating for 2 people like many of my neighbors have since it takes up walking space. Right now I have never entertained more than 6 people formally. If there are more than that, it can be a buffet with people sitting on the sofa and recliner to use the coffee table and end tables. I have a home office in the living room and dining room so IF I have to, I could use the conference big cherry desk for sitting if I had an informal buffet. Usually if there are more than 6 people, we go to someone else's home which is fine by me.

When I look at your dloorplan, I see a very minimal kitchen when compared tomthe rest of your house. That my be your choice, but for me I would want more defined kitchen space and counter space. With that in mind, would you ever consider using the closet under the front stairs near the kitchen as your pantry? Then you could have a nice l shaped counter in your kitchen (getting rid of the corner pantry. You could put the ovens on the l and have the cabinets end a little further from the back door. You could use the rest of the closet space under the back stairs as a back "coat" closet. If not for coats, it could be for out of season shoes, sports equipment, etc. As your kids get older, you will have more of that. I am not a lay our guru here, I just thought that might be a way to make your kitchen more functional and add storage space. Also, I again am not a layout guru, but your master bath looks weird to me. It's HUGE, but the space seems kind of wasted. So much empty space in the middle and non the other side of the tub. Also, the two vanities are so far apart. I lilt to talk to my husband if we are getting ready for the day or for bed at the same time and you guys couldntdo that at all. Could you incorporate that little linen closet into the big closet, make thatbwall straight across and put the other vanitynat an l to the one there? That would give you both space, but put you closer together. I may be totally off here, but it seems like you could use that space better. I also agree with previous posters to take the storage l from the garage and make it part of the butlers pantry. I know you say only the chef willuse that hall when you use the dining room. But, is that really true? When we have a party or family gathering, no one really stays in the dining room. People come into the kitchen to help bring food out, clear the table, chat as food is prepped, etc. That spot by itself wouldn't add 600 sf! Rachel

I think you need to eat at the table every night as a family, IMHO. How you achieve that in a particular house is different for each house/family. The children need to sit up straight in their chairs, learn to set the table properly, learn to have conversations at the table while eating with "table manners" looking "at" each other, taking turns to speak etc. They cannot learn to do this in a few weeks. This takes "years" of practice before they can do this seamlessly in "adult social" situations. Even if you only have a formal dining room does not mean that you can't use it everyday for dinners. Is it far from the kitchen? One of my friends swapped the dining room with the family room which is open to the kitchen. They put the dining table in the "family" room open to the kitchen and put the TV in the closed off "dining room". They are much happier. They feel that the kids can now eat at the table and the family does not have to listen to TV when in the kitchen..... I am a huge advocate of closing off the intrusion of TV. Our only TV is in the basement. In my household, I have only 1 dining table that is open to the kitchen. We have very modern open floor plan. I do not have closed off room for dining. My kids and our family eat at the table every evening. I also have an island where our family of 4 can sit comfortably and eat breakfast together. In this arrangement, we are slightly short of "eating" spaces when we have 3 families together for dinner and the groups are not separated. When there are 2 tables in the house (dining room plus a breafast table) then the children and adults can be separated more easily for family entertaining. This is the observation I have made regarding our family set up (1 large table) and other families that have larger houses with formal dining rooms. Unfortunately, generous kitchen plus formal dining is hard to achieve in homes that are less than 3000 sq ft, I think. If your house is not big enough to have both, I would put an island in the kitchen for kids to do homework, hang out with mom AND have generous storage for the kitchen, keep the dining room and use the dining table for daily meals.