Here's another pic of a main sink in the island with seating...

There are a lot of things we could do if we only had to worry about what it would look like. We had open shelves flanking the range in our temporary quarters while we were building. I can't say we didn't cook, but I can say we didn't cook as much or as energetically as we usually do, and the contents of the shelf were grossly greasy and dirty in short order and all the time. They were actually cabinets without doors, so more protected by the cabinet sides than open shelves would be.

The funny thing about photographed kitchens. (This is off-topic of your kitchen and just rambling commentary) The first one looks lovely, even if you can stand all the clutter...But at least the clutter shows how fast you'd run out of work space and elbow room in that kitchen with so many uppers down to the counter and so little room beside the sink and stove. They took what could be a baking counter and put decorative trim under the uppers so that the counters can only be a display shelf. They must use a lot of whole vegetables, because I don't see a cutting board or room on the counter for one. OK, they could move some of the veggies maybe...But I don't see room to roll out a nice batch of cinnamon rolls. ;-)

I can show you the other plan using my software, but can't promise when. We have guests coming and, besides that, I think if my family sees me drawing more plans for forum people this weekend they will get very frustrated with me! I'll be away from the computer for the next 2 days...So if it's not tonight, I might not check back til Wed.

rhome - I love your commentary :) There is very little counter in that first kitchen. I think I have a little more length on each side, but not positive. I didnt even notice all the clutter to tell you the truth. All I saw was layout, funny. You are amazing for doing these 3D's with your software. I cant even imagine what your family says. And you're a busy woman, with homeschooling and quite a few kiddos. If you would happen to draw the other plan, I think I preferred the cooktop closer to the south end like we had it before instead of centered between the open shelves. Enjoy your family and guests!

I don't have any island seating, but I had to measure my breakfast room table to see how much room there is on eash side. I knew the top was 54", but underneath, the room for 2 chairs on each side is only 46". My two boys regularly sit on one side at meals. They are fine -- as long as one doesn't scoot towards the center, and they are larger than many adults at 5'9" and 6'3" and the chairs are 18" wide where the barstools we used at the last house are a little over 12" wide. For what that's worth....

A mixer still fits and works in 18". You can roll out in 18".

In this arrangement, I think the baking counter will end up being more of a drop zone/family organizer/cooling rack - no matter what the depth. There's nothing wrong with that and it'll keep junque off of the island and cleanup area.

I would enjoy simply having enough room for the collection of flour canisters.

It has a high probability of being the final destination of the coffee stuff. I think I would buy some extra outlets in this area and perhaps install one below the counter for cell chargers and like devices in one of the drawers.

I think I'd get used to using the other end of the kitchen - the part that's got windows and views and fat counters - for everything.

Rhome, BHG is hurt, I tell you, really hurt that you would refer to their set decoration as "clutter."

I know plan A has come together nicely, but since you mention plan B, I'm guessing you're not completely sold? Does one fit in budget better, not just cabinets but counter tops, appliances, sinks, plumbing, lighting....

As for plan B, that is similar to my set up. Sink is in front of bar seating and I love it. My kids are younger but its so nice to be standing at the sink and facing/interacting with them.

I was very limited in my remodel, but I love the way it turned out. I think you just come to terms with things as they progress. In a way it was such a relief to commit to a plan because then I didn't have the "what if's" anymore. However, I did go through every possible configuration and then went to KD to she what she came up with only to end up very close to my initial plan. I think that's just part of the process, knowing your options and deciding what works best for you.

acc0406 - You dont have any issues with your main sink in the island? I think you posted a pic b4, didnt you? How much room do you have behind the sink? Thanks ;)

I like to torture myself.

I think with the DO here it might balance the open shelves wall better, I dont know. I couldnt figure out where to put a trash pullout in the island and keep the sink and everything else balanced. I can put one in the base of the open shelves area or just stick a trash can in the sink cabinet. Now, I could shorten the island to 3'6 instead of 4' and make the path between the REF and island 48" instead of 42".

Anyway, what do you think of this one in comparision to plan A...

I didn't post any pics. My kitchen is not even comparable to what you're considering. We had a small kitchen space in an old house. My sink is in a peninsula that is also the main work space. It is 8' with a 24" sink (the only sink) in the middle. It is 42" deep and has 4 bar stools on the other side. This is not the kitchen I would plan if I was starting from scratch, but it works great given our space constraints and the way I wanted to use the kitchen.

It's nice with the kids and nice when we have friends over. It keeps people out of my work space and allows me to be part of the action. I am pretty much the only cook though, and when my 4-year-old "helps" he sits on his stool and helps from the other half of the counter.

BTW, I have a hutch-like area next to the fridge and on the back wall. The space would only accomodate 22" bases (Using semi-custom cabinets saved on $ but allowed the bases to be shallower). I ran cupboards all the way down do the counter and put in a ton of outlets. I love hiding the cell phones, toaster, and coffee maker behind the doors. It left only a 10" counter space, which isn't usable prep space, but is a good landing space for the fridge and the cupboards above and a place to set the toaster/coffee maker while in use.

I am thrilled with how things turned out, but I'm sure the next person wouldn't have done things the same way.

I can post pics if you're interested, but I'm at work....

So when you say that you would do it differently from scratch, is the main sink in the peninsula something you would definitely nix? Or would you consider doing it again? I would love to run my hutch to the counter. Im short and that lower space would be so convenient. I would love to see pics if you get a chance ;)

I would defintely do the sink with bar seating again. It is less than ideal, though, that it is my only counter space. I would do something like you are considering in plan B with perimeter counter space.

Would swapping out the CT and DO with a range and single oven as in the pic with 3 black bar stools help with anything? What about switching to a 24" micro in the island and using the extra 6" with the 12" base to make a trash pull out? Or adding the 6" to the island toward the DR and switching to a 24" micro so that you have 12" cabinets on both sides of the sink and the sink is center. Just some thoughts.

I would put the micro drawer in the lower cab to the right of the refrigerator and then you'll have room for the trash.

That's 6ft. of open shelving. What are you going to use it for?

malhgold - That 6 ft of shelving would be all my dishes, except like the kids plastic cups and plastic dishes, they could go in the hutch. I was thinking of moving the MW in the base beside the fridge too. I was just trying to fill in the island space so I had no overhang on the north end.

acc0406 - I was hoping for a 36" stovetop, and I dont think I would like to heat 36" of oven underneath for regular cooking.

Does anyone like this better than Plan A? The thing that is bugging me about plan A is the deeper hutch (was hoping for more shallow for pantry stuff) and the walls on either side of the cooking area. Will I feel closed in because the REF & DO cabinet are full depth on each side like barriers? Im also not sure I like the corner beside the DO and hutch. To me, it seems odd, but maybe in real life it will look completely normal.

I know you want to talk Plan B, but I was thinking about the baking counter in Plan A as I was mixing up dough for pizza crust at my baking counter. (My kids can create dumping areas in my house, but the baking counter isn't one of them. I can't imagine that in this plan, if it were my house, this one would be either.) Maybe I could do with 18" depth of work surface, but I wouldn't want the uppers that close to my face. For that, and because it's nicer for working, I'd leave it at 24".

OK...This latest plan. I like the DO and cooktop swap. It gives the cooktop a better defined area, gives boundaries on both ends of the open shelves, and offers both sides of the oven as baking area, depending on which isn't busy when you want to bake.

It has disadvantages over Plan A because of the more clearly defined work areas that you like about my kitchen. For a more standard, one-sink kitchen, it seems pretty good....But I'm glancing at it pretty quickly.

In plan A does it help if you do a blind corner instead of the closet between the hutch and DO? I can't tell if that would feel more or less claustrophobic. What about losing the hutch and moving the DO to the end of the south wall near the doorway?

I know this sounds basic, but can you prioritize? What's most important? DO, coffee space, baking area, hutch, island seating, 36" CT, pantry, uninterrupted workspace, open shelves? Maybe if you narrow that down you will see which things you are willing to compromise on.

rhome - I kind of agree that if I want to use the counter in the hutch in Plan A for baking prep, it needs to be 24" deep.

Now with revised Plan B, you're right, you can use the 6ft span of counter beside it for baking prep. That would be useful.

acc0406 - Im having trouble prioritizing my priorities LOL. I mean, do I bake everyday?, no. But as I get older and the kids grow too I think they would enjoy something like that. My mom never taught me how to cook. I want to give them that experience. Are you saying just to put counter in the corner? I could do that. Wonder what it would look like.

Alrighty then, so what if I do this in Plan B...

I put glass uppers where I originally had the open shelves. Then I put open shleves beside the DO corner. I could put baking supplies, canisters, oils and things for cooking, etc on the open shelves there. Then flanking the cooktop I have 2 27" uppers, or they could be 24's if I want more space between the hood.

I thought one of the things you were concerned about before was the distance from frig to cooktop. What is that distance?

I think acc has a good point. You should prioritize all of your desires and see which ones can happen and which fall off. It is very rare when we can get everything we want in the kitchen design.

One parting shot. I agree with Malhgold on the distance thing...10 ft is a long way from fridge to stove.

Do you notice that your open shelves and your uppers by the stove will overlap in an odd and awkward way? I believe it will look ill-planned. And now you're getting open shelving by the cooktop again. If you're going with this layout, I'd switch all that back to the way it was in this morning's plan.

Now, I'm outta here til Wed., and you can carry on without my butting in. :-)

As someone who is planning a similar layout in a 16X14 space, I've played around this quite a bit myself. Personally, I would not like having the double oven interrupt the counter space between fridge and cooktop.

How wide is the aisle you're planning between the fridge and sink? You're lucky you can borrow aisle space at the end of your island to make your island longer. :)

The open shelves and wall cabs in your corner conflict.

Every kitchen requires prioritizing and making choices, and that's hard when we see so many gorgeous kitchen and neat features we'd like to have too. Chances are that one or two items will need to go or to be different than you initially pictured to make everything fit. I'm saying that very generally -- not about this kitchen in particular.

I think the hutch can go either way and be great. The counter at 18" would require you to keep clutter cleared so you have use of all or most of that space. Canisters and things across the back will get into the space you want to use, so you probably want to limit anything that sits onf hte counter to the very corners. Rhome is also right about your face being up closer to the upper cabinet doors -- pressing your nose against the glass doors? LOL Maybe that's a better spot for open shelving -- for mixing bowls and platters, cake plates and such. And maybe just in the main work area and keep a closed cabinet on either side. Of course, the trade off here is perhaps less grease than you would get by the cooktop but more flour. It's always somethin', ya know?

There is a middle ground on the bases -- vanity cabinets are 21" and a standard depth you should be able to get just as easily as 18 or 24. You should also be able to get drawers in any of these depths, but 21 or 24 will give you more room. No reason that even the 24" deep hutch couldn't have drawers for food storage all across the bottom. That's what we use the side drawers in our hutch for -- breakfast and lunch making items.

Something else I haven't seen mentioned here is a middle ground on the open shelving idea -- having an open shelf across the bottom and a wall cabinet above. You still have some open display storage but you don't have nearly as much that you will need to use constantly or wash before using. That's what I wanted to do in my baking area -- to have mixing bowls, measuring cups and such both displayed and in easy reach, but it didn't work. this idea might help you if you go with 18 or 21 inch bases because you could make that first shelf a shallower one and put it back further from your face. It wouldn't be large enough for large paltes and such, but you could still display some special things (I'd have had to get a set of those Nigella Lawson measuring cups to display if I had that in my baking area!).

After our cabinets were in, I decided to put coffee cups and mugs on the bottom shelf of the bookshelf section above our espresso maker (in addition to the espresso cups that sit on the warming tray on the top of the machine itself), so I guess I have my one shelf of open shelving there -- a few books in the center and display pieces on the top shelf. ;-) They are quite protected the center of the hutch nad they are outside the kitchen proper, but I am still surprised by the amount of dust that will gather around them at times.

I would carefully consider how much open shelving you really want to have, use and maintain. I have 2 sets of dishes, one is 8 place settings and the other for 12, in addition to shelves full of bowls and serving pieces in 42" of upper cabinet space. Having 6 feet of open shelving would allow you -- or require you-- to display an awful lot of dishes and clean a lot of shelving.

Acc is absolutely right about making that a 24" micro drawer and gaining 18" for a trash pullout. That was just about the first thing I wanted to say too. Then you'd have a narrow cabinet by the cooktop for lids, baking sheets or cutting boards (even with one over the DOs, I don't think it would be too much). In my mind, the only reason to get the 30" micro drawer is if you are stacking it with a 30" warming drawer or something similar.

Other than wanting to have less open shelving space (my personal choice), especially in Plan A, I think the 2 biggest things to look at are the fact the hutch is a focal point in Plan B and a side piece in Plan A and that Plan B is a kitchen that 1-4 cooks can work in while Plan A is a single cook kitchen that 2 might work in. To me, that last point is perhaps the most important distinction. How do you want YOUR kitchen to function?

Rambling thoughts -- hope something helps. :-)

twogirls,

Isn't it amazing how we can think that we're so close to a "final" layout, and yet we still keep tweaking and tweaking and tweaking? ;) Honestly, I think you're real close to a final final, and I think I am too.

I agree that your fridge in that last layout is a hike from your cooktop.

I ADORE open shelving too, and it looks fabulous in magazines. But my house gets sooo dusty, I have to dust every other day, and so I think I'll be limiting my open shelving to just 1 shelf near my cooktop and then some built-in open shelving near my baking center. Are you displaying your dishes on the open shelves and the top of your hutch both?

I really like the renderings rhome posted on August 16.

Have a great day,

Erika

How would either plan work if you went back to the range with double ovens? That would allow you to avoid the closet. Is that too much congestion in that aisle--oven doors down in front of the prep sink?

What if you did something similar to the corner shelve/shutch/DO in the inspiration picture on the south wall? By my math, which is fuzzy, you could do 24" shelf and 54" baking center with 30" for ovens.

You know what acc0406? I LOVE your idea to make the DO, hutch and a corner bookshelf thing like the inspiration photo. I didnt even look at that pic thinking of Plan A's design, but it seriously works! I know someone mentioned putting the DO there before, but I thought it would mess it up to have a wall of cabinets going into the corner. HOWEVER if I set it up something like the inspiration pic, the hutch seems to still seem like a seperate focal point. And it will still leave me 4 feet for the hutch. I have 4 ft of open shelving on the sink wall for more dishes as well. And I love how they slid the toaster under the bookshelf. That will also gain me a TON of counterspace beside the cooktop. I am going to go draw it now! WOW :)

My only question is will the upper cabinet to the right of the cooktop look weird just ending like that and then having the bookshelf in the corner? I was also able to put fluted filler pieces flanking the cooktop. Its kind of neat because the cooktop seems to line up exactly with the island space behind it. Oh and I made the corner deadspace, just using the counter. If I do a lazy susan, I think it would take away from looking like a hutch, know what I mean?

Any suggestions?

First: I really like this last version a lot! Here are my two cents:

1. extend the 12" cab on the backside of the island to include the spot behind the trash cab so that there is no seating extending into the work area of the kitchen.

2. cabs instead of open shelves over the dishwasher (this is from someone who is still dealing with the million different types of sippy cups and their messy lids/straws and lives in earthquake country; you may not have those problems).

I didn't think about the dead spot when I suggested that. I'm concerned about the blank space unless you have something really cool to hang there or something to make it look like it was done with a purpose.

What if you took the plan B posted on Fri, Aug 15, 08 at 21:27, and did the book shelves or cabinets to the counter in the corner on an angle - that could transition between the hutch/baking area and the rest of the prep? I definitely have to think about it some more. I'm curious to see what other people come up with.

OK, I'm still pondering but what about this starting at the DO for the bases: DO, 36" drawers, lazy susan, 36" base, CT, 36" base, REF. Then for the uppers starting at DO - DO, 36" upper, 18" shelf that forms a corner with another 18" shelf on the CT wall (there would be dead space where the shelves meet), 36" upper, hood, 36" upper, REF. Again math is not my specialty, but in my head I'm visioning shelves in the corner lining up with both sides of the lazy susan.

Some good ideas, but nothing's been as exciting or pulled together as brilliantly as the designs posted on the 16th and 17th. I'm a sucker for hutches, open shelves, symmetry, views, etc, so it's been fascinating watching you create a kitchen I would love to have.

This one has it all:

Compact work areas for one cook 90% of the time AND expanded work spaces for several--the whole family together on one task and/or separately. (Yet totally without that cavernous gymnasium feel so many kitchens expanding to have it all end up with.)

Hot/dangerous functions segregated out of traffic in that wonderfully efficient main work area.

Hutch and cook/hearth distinguished end points for the main vistas into the kitchen from living and dining areas.

Separate bake area when needed, functions as beautiful focal point and great storage without detracting at all from the main functions of the kitchen when not in use. More than any other element, the hutch defines the style for the kitchen.

Separate spaces and functions visually, very much in the spirit of old kitchens, yet flowing and functioning beautifully.

Excellent relation of all spaces to the surrounding home, including the cleanup space right in the middle of everything and yet wonderfully discrete.

Et cetera, no doubt, if I went back and looked for more. Plan B's nice too; it works wonderfully for many people and would be a good choice.

Examining all options has gotten you to this point, so good job. I do feel, though, that moving the stove to the far end would seriously degrade the function of the kitchen, and having the ovens cutting the important cooking area off from the main prep area would compound the problems.

Although I love the bookcase in the corner, I haven't been able to imagine the cabinets by the stove looking right with them. This also greatly weakens and waters down the hutch visually. But you keep surprising me, so I wouldn't discount your pulling this part off somehow.

Definitely keep the shelves over the sink and enjoy them for their utility. You could always enclose them in future if desired.

So there. I wasn't going to clutter this thread with more input, but I like it too much to resist. One thing, I'm pretty sure all the work that's gone into it won't be a waste--somebody's sure to build it. :)

rosie - Thank you for your commments. That makes me feel alot better about the whole thing. I know Ive been a little obsessive about it, but I know in the end it will totally pay off. I figure this opportunity will not arise anytime soon in the future, so I need to do it right. This is the kitchen my kids will grow up in, and I want it to be special. So now, are you saying you like the plan posted on the 16/17th BETTER than what I just posted today? I need to figure out something creative for that corner if I do today's posted plan.

acc0406 - The reason I didnt want to do the lazy susan was so I could keep the hutch look. Otherwise the uppers will be out of balance with the lowers and it will be off balance. I dont mind not using the base corner, I just need to figure out how to better utilize the upper corner. And Plan B on the 15th felt too cramped for me with the main sink and cooktop so close. Your ideas have really helped, so keep them coming. You seem to have a different thought process than me and it really helps to hear what you are seeing that I may not be.

sarchlos - I will definitely be including your idea #1. I forgot to include that extra cabinet in the island. As for the open shleves, Im going to try them. The kids cups will go in a cabinet. Just the pretty stuff will go on shelves. And no, Im in Ohio. Havent had an earthquake in a LOOOONG time. :)

Well Ive been pondering the corner situation. What if I faced the bookshelf going to the counter the other way straight aligned with the cooktop wall? It would give the cooktop wall and ending point. I could leave it like that and then there would be a space between the bookshelf and where the hutch started. OR I could just make it a corner bookshelf to counter. I could make two seperate bookshleves units with sides and form a dead unseen corner. OR I could leave them open and just have a corner there, more like one unit. Wish I had photos to describe what Im saying...

I can't explain it either. Here are some ideas from the FKB.

http://s279.photobucket.com/albums/kk129/ecoleman251/?action=view&current=DSC02974.jpg

http://s13.photobucket.com/albums/a256/MaryMT/Kitchen/?action=view&current=b1dc2d00.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/msteffen/image/48994341

OT... does anyone know if msteffen is still around or what cab manufacturer the cabs are? Kinda look a little like Adel Medium Brown except I don't recognize the upper glass cabs which I love.

Ok so how bout this? I put corbels under the glass uppers to make it look more like a seperate piece. I could even add feet to the base of the hutch. Then I have the bookshelf beside the last 36" upper on the cooktop side. Under the bookshelf is an 18" tall 12" deep 2 door cabinet that sits on the counter for storage. That would kind of create an "end" to the cooktop area and make the hutch look more seperate. I have a small 12" space of wall then where I could put a little bar and hang my measuring spoons & cups, maybe a little picture above or something like that. Just a little space to play with. What do you think?

Extend the glass uppers another 12" (where you have measuring spoons/cups hanging -- I wouldn't leave those out in such a fancy kitchen, btw). Then have a 24" bookcase meet the bookcase in the corner -- leaving a 12"X12" dead space in the corner behind the the uppers and the bookcase. That will solve your problem. You'll need some scribe or filler at an angle to join the two wall cabinets together in the corner, but it will look right.

sarchlos - Im confused. If the bookcase part is going to the counter and the glass upper extended 12" toward the corner is not, wont it be weird in the corner?

Or do I have the bookcase only be 12" wide? And run the storage cabinet 24" wide underneath to the wall?

I don't have access to graph paper at work, so I can't draw it out for you right now. If I get a chance tonight, I'll try to post a drawing.

You would be leaving a 12"X12" square of dead space in the corner. Your bookcase and glass cabs will be an inch or two narrower than the full width of that space because you will need scribe or filler on both sides to make a natural-looking joint.

Look back at the photos you posted of the dark wood kitchen on Sun, Aug 17, 08 at 21:22. See how they used a column in between the bookcase and the glass cab? And notice the curved decorative front piece underneath the glass cabs? You would do something akin to that, only the column/filler piece would be at an angle in the corner. I would also have the sides of the decorative front piece taper to a narrow width and extend down to the counter. This will hide the dead space that extends beyond the corner of the base cabinet (and give you a neat little hidden alcove for something you want easy access to, but don't want to look at all the time (like a knife bock, a jar full of spatulas and spoons, or your measuring cups and spoons; you could also fit narrow spice jar holder on one side and tuck your flour/sugar cannisters on the other side).

I think that your hutch is going to look less and less like a separate piece of furniture with these configurations. I almost put my fridge next to my hutch too until someone pointed out it will overshadow my hutch which I really want to be a focal point and like a stand-alone unit.

I really like the rendering rhome did on 8/17 where she framed out the corner. I don't think that corner between the DO and hutch would look strange at all like that, I think it would look great.

Just my 2 cents! ;)

Erika

I agree with erikanh that the configurations that involve a susan corner instead of a framed out closet opening into the hallway will look more fitted.

If you want an unfitted look, keeping the pieces separate by framing out that corner will help immensely. Since you would have 48" of upper cabs, what if you do a glass cab in the center and two smaller 12" bookcases on either side of the glass cab, then use decorative trim to make it hutch like? The 12" bookcases would go to the counter, then there would be a decorative trim along the bottom edge of the 36" glass cab to tie it all together to give it a hutch-like appearance. If you do this, I would be tempted to swap the hutch piece with the double ovens so that the double ovens are up against the framed out wall (but remember to give yourself 2-3 inches for scribe/filler between the wall and ovens. The other thing you could do, which would be very fun, is to frame out that 2' corner to be a closet opening into the hallway, then continue the drywall in the kitchen to eliminate the oven cabinet and put the ovens directly into framed drywall, then have your baking center/cookbook hutch next to the framed out oven location. You could even use an antique hoosier or napanee (sp?) hutch with an enameled counter top for this piece -- to give a truly unfitted look. The neat thing about those pieces is that the enamel top usually pulls out to make an extra deep work space when needed. :)

Hmmm, okay this is getting interesting.

erika - I see what you mean. You're probably right. I liked gaining the counter space beside the cooktop, even though I know 24" on each side would be fine (lol, like your thread), but of course Im striving for perfection and second guessing all my guesses.

sarchlos - Ok so I "could" flip the DO and hutch and still drywall off the corner. Or I could leave the DO on the outside like it is and still drywall the corner. Doing that I would still gain more counter by the cooktop and still be at 48" of hutch space. But I agree that it would probably look better than trying to figure out some kind of corner configuration and take away fom the hutch look. How do you drywall around DO's? Ive never even heard of that, but Im new to the DO world.

So then I guess the question is whats the best functional and aesthetically pleasing decision. More counter by the cooktop area and smaller hutch? OR More hutch, smaller cooktop area?

I cant wait till rhome comes back LOL. I need me a 3D rendering!

Another idea. If I keep the hutch & DO on the same wall and keep 36" on each side of the cooktop, what If I ran the uppers next to the cooktop like this, 12" cab to counter - 24" upper - hood - 24" upper - 12" to counter. Then I could use the 12" cab to counter on each end for pantry cooking stuff like cans, boxed food, etc. The one thing I was lacking in this kitchen was a shallow pantry and this would really help make up for it.

Thoughts?

Erika - do you think it would still overshadow the hutch if I have the hutch on the end, then DO, then drywall corner?

I realize that rhome's software is VASTLY superior to mine, but just in case this helps you visualize:

{{gwi:1932606}}

I think the hutch on the end instead of sandwiched between a bookshelf and double oven will help keep it look like a separate piece, especially with a nicely finished side.

My contractor said framing a corner like that is easy. I think he called it an inside corner.

I'm confused by your questions -- why would you lose counter space on either side of the cooktop? -- which probably means you were confused by my suggestion, so here goes another try.

(1) Keep the DO and hutch on the same wall.
(2) Drywall the corner 2'X2' space and make a closet opening into the hallway (who doesn't need an extra closet?)
(3) Put the double ovens next to the drywalled closet on the same wall as the hutch. You can either enclose the ovens in a cabinet or in drywall (check the FKB -- I've seen a couple of examples of this).
(4) Put the hutch next to the DO cabinet or wall space. Take a look at mnhockeymom's finished kitchen. She has a snack center hutch that will give you design ideas. Also, google hoosier cabinets. I would give the hutch a beadboard back instead of backsplash and use corbels and different type of countertop material, to give it a finished/separate hutch appearance. Have two glass cabs that are longer than the center bookcase area (or glass cabs in the center and longer bookcase areas on either side of that) so that there would be a 12" longer cab, a 36" center and a 12" longer cab for the top part of the hutch. Finish out with decorative trim pieces along the bottom and sides of the three wall/upper pieces of the hutch.

You would still have 36" runs of counter and wall cabs next to your range on both sides (have the closet built a tad deeper than normal so that you don't lose the symmetry of that wall; you can always use shelves in that closet that are shallower than the closet depth for functionality -- or make it a coats & brooms closet with only the one shelf above the rod plus hooks on the sides for your vaccuums/mops/etc.

Personally, I think having the hutch on the end instead of the double oven will draw attention to the hutch. Having it sandwiched between a double oven and a wall will make it appear to be part and parcel to the rest of the fitted kitchen.

sarchlos - No, Im sorry. I was saying if I put it back the original way with the DO, REF and CT on one wall and the hutch on its own wall I lose counter space by the CT. Thats kind of what Im deciding between. CT counter bigger or more hutch.

The hutch will be used for my everyday dish storage, so I probably wont be doing a bookshelf in it. I just liked the bookshelf in the inspiration pic for a corner solution, but I think we've eliminated that. I definitely want to trim out the hutch and make it look like a seperate piece. And I think we were trying to leave the counter space open on it for a baking area, so I doubt any of the cabs will go to the counter.

Erika - Thank you for that rendering! And then I could do the uppers around the cooktop, 12" cab to counter - 24" upper - hood - 24" upper - 12" to counter, and use the 12's to the counter for pantry. What do you think? Or do you like it better the way it was like this?

I would not like to be boxed in with 12" cabs to counter right next to the cooktop -- no space available for the pot/pan handles to hang over the edge of the cooktop and cabinets too close to fire (one small grease fire and your cabs are ruined) and too close to the grease.

If you want 12" cabs to the counter, better to put them on the end runs: 12" cab to counter, 24" cab, 36" hood, 24" cab, 12" cab to counter. BUT I wouldn't do cabs to the counter at all on that wall if you're going to incorporate a similar motif into your hutch.

Personally, I like the baking center with the double ovens right there and the extra counter space on either side of the cooktop, but that's partially because of the way I work.

You have to shrink the hutch if the DO goes next to it? I'm not sure how much you have to store in there so I can't say which one is better. I think they would both look balanced and nice.

The freebie software doesn't let me do cabinets to counter, so I had to finagle it a bit:

{{gwi:1932608}}

You'll sacrifice some counter space this way, but maybe the staggered look adds interest?

sarchlos - Yes thats how I would have it. 12" cabs to counter on the ends, So still plenty of workspace. I wont be doing any cabs to counter in the 48" hutch. So you like more room around the cooktop and keeping the hutch and DO on same wall? Thats good to know. Im still deciding...

Particularly because your refrigerator is right next to your cooktop, I would want the extra counterspace and not the cabs to the counter, because there will be times when I would take something directly from the fridge and dump it right into my pan. I also would prefer the larger 36" wall cabs with interior organizers for spices and cans rather than cabs to the counter. Double oven on the baking center hutch wall creates a really nice separate work center. :)

Erika that looks great! Now do you have a 36" cooktop in there, thats what we would have, or do you have a 30? I really like the look of cabinets to the counter, so even though it cuts the counter down a bit for the 12" span, I dont think I would mind it. I still have 24" beside that and a large island. Plus as Ive said before, Im short and I would love to have supplies at such a comfortable level.

Now in decidng where this DO should go...

If Im looking at this plan the only thing that worries me is where you would need to stand to accces the oven. Most people would stand beside it, correct? So that would potentially mean that I would need to stand to the left of the DO, away from the baking center and kind of in the way of the cooktop area.

In this plan, if I was standing beside the DO I would be in the baking "area" and away from the cooktop. True?

I think it depends on your height and comfort level. I'm average height, so I tend to stand in front of the oven and pull the oven rack out over the door. This would have me standing in the cooktop area instead of the baking area.

Since you say you are short, I thought I would mention that my mom, who is also short (5'3" on a good day) HATES my wall ovens because the top oven is too high for her to comfortably remove food without putting her arms at risk of burns (it is at a standard wall oven cabinet height).

Re the cabs to the counters: don't forget that you will need 2" scribe or filler (depending on the level of custom) on the sides of your 12" cabs so that the doors will open properly unless you are doing inset.

Well Im 5 ft (and a half inch!) tall, so I dont know. My grandma has a wall oven and she is about as tall as me. Ive never heard her complain about it. I kind of played with the displays at the store, but didnt think of burning arms at the time. As far as the cabinet type goes, Im actually "hoping" to do inset, if budget allows. If not, it will be a full overlay.

Yup, it's a 36-inch base.

sarchlos brings up a good question, are you doing inset cabs? If so, those 12 inch cabinets will be pretty small inside, but nice for oils, spices, etc.

Will your kitchen be a 2 cook kitchen? Will someone be standing at the cooktop when you're trying to get in the oven?

Counter space vs. hutch space vs. cabinet space. So hard to decide!