Have you seen the lights yet, Fly? I was just looking at some online yesterday. I'm wondering if they look like that fluorescent type of light that's around though.

They're still pricey and don't have the brightness of incandescents. I'm not doing Christmas decorating this year, but I may buy a strand of the mini LED to use in an outdoor gazing ball since it'll be something I keep out year round.

Here is a link that might be useful: Holiday Lights ... Consumer Reports

Haven't seen them, but we're getting to the point where energy-saving is a gain that takes an awful lot to outweigh it, and the brightness issue just means we have less-bright lights. The alternative for our family is *no* lights, since we just can't see using that much energy, even though "we can afford it", for merely psychological reasons anymore.

My next door neighbors have the colored lights, and to me they look hidious. They look like something you put up at holloween time! I have also seen the white lights, and they don't have that yellow glow that I like to see. It is more of a blue white. I am a traditionalist, so for me I would pass them up.

It's hard to imagine they cost that much, isn't it, $175. I read that a tv is the equivalent of running a 200 watt bulb. !

I thought that was a bit high...but even the CR report documents significantly lower prices. And the lack of fire hazard is also a huge gain, in my book.

mj, I'm sorry to hear that about the colored lights--I wonder what brand they are--I see in magazines pictures of LEDs in red and they're a beautiful true red. But if you were really a traditionalist, wouldn't you be using candles? :)

I know my DD is going to be quite happy when she learns that we can try some of these this year. I also suspect the colors and price comparision will be getting better every year to come...they're already coming down drastically from where they were even a year before. Have you all seen the LED can lights? Insanely high priced--over $100 per bulb. Not going to go for it until the price comes down about 80% at least...

I'm hoping to find an LED replacement bulb for the little halogen flood that I use as a reading lamp when it burns out. I'm told that such a bulb exists, but none of my regular suppliers has it, and I suspect that it's still pretty expensive.

I did see some LED light strings at 1000bulbs.com that weren't too expensive. They are sold out of the warm white in residential sets already, but still have it in the commercial line (the commercial sets require a separate plug adapter, and more of them can be strung together).

IMO they look a bit...like a too-wild mardi gras! And I doubt they'll ever catch on. For those who like them, good for you. For me, no.

And this is baloney:
More cash on the other side. Burning 10 strands of lights with 100 lights per strand, eight hours per day for a month costs $175 for incandescent bulbs vs. about $1 for LED mini-bulbs.

I don't think so...with a tree, mini-tree, mantel lights all lit for 12 hours per day -- I have them on timer to come on at noon and go off at midnight -- (many many more than the 10 strands noted) our electric bill does NOT increase by $175 a month. And that's just IN the house, not the ones outdoors.

Susan

If your lights twinkle on and off, does it only cost half as much? (scratching head) I'm thinking this year I might just do lights around the front door, maybe around the front window. There's no way I'm climbing on the roof.

Ditto Susan...we have some of the highest electric rates in the nation and go all out for Christmas -- the most we've ever seen our bill jump was $30 and that was the year I baked non-stop (electric oven).

I think the way you do, flyleft. Thanks for posting this.

I'm very interested in energy conservation. I don't know much about LEDs yet, but I'm not convinced, based on what I have read, that they're a great environmental choice either. I read somewhere online (on an LED company's website) a long list of materials used in their manufacture that didn't look so good. I'll have to check into this again. But incandescents as we know them are on their way out, whether we like it or not. Some countries have even outlawed them starting next year.

You know, I feel like writing that site and asking them for their source on that stat. That number stood out to me too--although there's no doubt that LEDs cost less to run than incandescents, the difference is dramatic enough without overstating it.

egganddart, I'd love to see what you come up with about LEDs. I just can't stand to keep extra lights lit for no other reason than decoration, given the environmental costs...I think we may need to become candle-lighting traditionalists soon...and even that has downsides, but it's a matter of weighing downsides with one's own priorities.

Change of habit comes slowly...I notice that at the Auto Show in LA this year, even the Chevy Tahoe was touting its green new engine. We all know what GM did to its first non-gas car, and now look at them, hopping on the bandwagon with a truck. It's all a matter of marketing. I'm glad they did finally get on the bandwagon, though.

If your main concern is energy savings make sure you're using fluorescents throughout the house. To save money on seasonal lighting you'd have to use them for many years to recoup the initial outlay. At any rate, I bought a string of 35 white LEDs today. We'll see how they look in that gazing ball when I get it.

Ah-HA! Got to the root of that little problem--love those internets :). The idealbite folks misquoted the Alliance to Save Energy, where the actual comparison is:

"$175 for large, incandescent bulbs, about $11 for traditional mini-lights, and just over $1 for LEDs (based on $0.1003 per kilowatt-hour)"

So it's clear that the savings when comparing tiny incandescent lights to tiny LED lights (vs. the big old incandescents) would be fairly massive anyway ($11 vs. $1), but IdealBite's initial use of the quote was misleading.

And oh yes, natal, wherever we can we're using fluorescents, or actively using dimmers on incandescents for the cans we already have up...eventually we'll switch out the dimmers (the PO had them installed already) and use switch-on fluorescents--I actually like the *daylight* fluorescent (Ott-lite kind of lights) light better than the incandescent light.

I like the daylight fluorescents too. It's a more natural light than the yellowish cast from incandescents.

timely topic...

DH switched out all of the incandescents in our kitchen and master bath this weekend.

DH added up our wattage with the incandescents in the kitchen. We had 5 small 25 watt recessed cans (2 + 3 on separate switches), 10 recessed cans at 60 watts, 6 incandescents at 60w each in the chandelier. Add that up ... we were using 1085+ watts with the incandescents. With the CFLs we are down to 273 watts to light the entire kitchen. It is like daylight in there at night. I am now able to just use the task lighting to prep food instead of lighting up the entire kitchen to be able to see. The light from the cans is fine. I'm having to adjust to seeing the chandelier lights since those have frosted white glass shades it is too bright. I think I'll get lower wattage equivalents for that and move those bulbs to other fixtures.

The master bath worked out well as we were turning on 4 sconces and 1 overhead (2 bulbs) everytime we went in there. So, we knocked that down from 360 to 78 watts total.

We've been using CFLs in our reading lamps for a year.

Waiting to see if LEDs will come down in price and be usuable for us. I will take a look at the holiday lights.

Look at it this way - they use 90% less energy! That is huge! Basically no power. We were just talking about this.
Think about the new lights you buy every year to replace the broken cheap strings. Think of all the time spent trying to get them working again. We plan on replacing all our holiday lighting with LED after this season - hoping that they will come down a bit in after holiday sales. But, I'm feeling a little guilty now not doing it this year with oil prices over $100 a barrel.

As far as them not catching on...they are a huge growth sector and higher demand and necessity will produce greater production and lower costs. The energy we each consume has a higher cost than just in dollars and the new LED's are greatly improved. They appear just as bright or brighter and the colored lights are true and beautiful in my opinion

More cash on the other side. Burning 10 strands of lights with 100 lights per strand, eight hours per day for a month costs $175 for incandescent bulbs vs. about $1 for LED mini-bulbs.
Not only do I think the numbers are inflated, but who in their right mind keeps Christmas tree lights on 8 hours a day? 5pm to 1am; good grief, unplug that thang and go to bed already. LOL

But if you were really a traditionalist, wouldn't you be using candles?
I put up a plain 7 ft tree, none of that insane, pre lit 800 bulb stuff, and have never used more than 200 lights, and usually half that many. Then again, I have alot (alot) of ornaments, so reflected light makes it seem much brighter. As for candles, you could use luminaries outside at Christmas. That's pretty traditional. ;^)

LED technology is not quite there but getting better all the time. I have some undercabinet lighting samples in my office that are warm white LEDs that throw a GORGEOUS light, but they are about $150/linear foot. OUCH. Cool white LEDs are less expensive than the warm ones (having been around longer) but eventually the price on all of them will come down. The technology is there to make LEDs that mimic the warmer incandescent light that I prefer. You can even get LED mr-16 type bulbs (the halogens in the reflectors - this is a bunch of LEDs in the reflectors). The cool whites are something like $35/bulb while the warm whites are more than double that.

Eventually as with everything the prices will come down, it will just take a little time. Most electric power plants run on coal, not oil though, so the cost of oil has nothing to do with the cost of electricity. I'm not rushing to switch out my lights until they have a warm white and somewhat twinkly version of the LEDs. Tree Classics has some of their pre-lit trees with LED strands and they have a star-shaped bulb to help with the twinkle. They claim they are pure white and not bluish but my guess is that they are not quite warm enough to look traditional. In either case I just bought a prelit tree last year and I'm not sending that puppy to the landfill just yet. :)

I'm interested in the environmental cost of what we use too and do use the CFLs a lot. The fire hazards of tree lights and hot halogens scare me too. It does seem catchy though with the materials, manufacturing, and disposal processes of these types of things, to know what the bottom line is. Better or worse overall. But we must keep trying!

Is it the CFL's that have mercury in them -- hazardous when they break? I don't think I had known that. But gee, we had fun with those little mercury balls from broken thermometers when we were young kids.

Very interesting and inspiring numbers, Cameron!

I have also seen the white lights, and they don't have that yellow glow that I like to see.
White LEDs do not and will not ever have that warm glow because yellow light is the result of subtracting all blue light, and as you noticed, they're are coming from the blue side of the wheel. I'm pretty sure it's a blue/green mix, but it's ain't warm, and it ain't yellow.

Here is a link that might be useful:

I don't put up many lights - just on the topiary by the front door, and a long strand wrapped around the palm tree trunk, but I'll be switching over to LED as soon as these stop working (which shouldn't take too long, except now that I want them to go they'll last forever, lol).

I purchased some orange (last year) and some blue (this year) LED strands for the two topiaries I used on either side of the entrance for Halloween and I was very pleased with the glow...and they worked...even the two orange strands from last year...and didn't stop working this year...hoorah! I prefer the yellowy warmer glow as well. I wonder if there is a way to tint/paint the bright white bulbs to acheive it (like a tea stain for plastic?! lol). Where I don't need many, it may be a possibility. Maybe those pearl looking ones would look warmer...hmmmm...if I do it this year I'll report back.

White LEDs do not and will not ever have that warm glow because yellow light is the result of subtracting all blue light, and as you noticed, they're are coming from the blue side of the wheel. I'm pretty sure it's a blue/green mix, but it's ain't warm, and it ain't yellow.

I have seen LEDs that cast a beautiful warm glow comparable to a halogen bulb. As I said though they are VERY expensive. They also require some kind of a filter on them to do that so you don't actually see the LED. You may never see it with a clear glass bulb but it IS already possible for LEDs to have that warm, yellow glow. Maybe not in inexpensive christmas light strings yet but it IS possible. It's just a matter of time before the technology gets adapted more widely and cheaply.

I agree, Kgwlisa - it is a matter of time. However, the cost of oil has everything to do with the cost of everything else from the price of eggs to the fuel surcharge on my electric bill! There are oil powered energy plants but you are right about coal fired - they are building them like crazy in China. That is another environmental issue in pollution! But what I was speaking to was the mindset of conserving energy where you can and I have a long way to go!

I saw those pearl ones, too!

I am amazed at the improvement in choice, quality, and price in fluorescent lighting in recent years - I love my 3 way switches!

We've been switching over to CFL's in just about every fixture as the old incandescents burn out...and as we switch them out our elec bill has been going down a little every month. Last month I finally bought some of the CFL's floods to put in my kitchen cans. Wow - what a huge difference in the amount of light and they only use a fraction of the energy. We'll be switching to some LED Christmas lights this year. Just a few strings at first. I suspect next year their cost will drop significantly as demand goes up and supply increases. (Did I sound like an econ prof there? LOL)

Sippmom--cool :). We just bought the daylight CFLs from HD for our master bath--the 75 watt-equivalents (19 watts) fit into the 60-watt-size fixtures (4" downlights and some sconces). The tradeoff is that we'll be using switches rather than dimmers, but hey. We'll have fabulous daylight, nice and strong, in a room with no natural daylight, and save over 50 watts per bulb! :)

Do you have a switch in your kitchen cans? We have a dimmer there (Leviton, and actually it's broken right now) -- I'd be willing to switch back to a switch, as it were...I've read that the "dimmable fluorescents" aren't really there wrt true dimmability yet.

I'm surprised no one mentioned that the Rockefeller Center christmas tree is using LED lights this year. They've replaced all of their old lights with LEDs. It's "only" a 60% reduction in energy consumption though, not a 90% as the article above states. It's enough to allow the tree to be supported by the new solar panel array they've installed on the roof of 45 Rock.

We'll see how it looks compared to past years though. I hope it doesn't have a weird blue glow ;).

We are using CFLs all over the house, and even outside in our front fixture. We don't have dimmers on any fixtures but one, so that is not even a concern for us. I like the light just fine, and it is great not to have to change bulbs!

But the LED white holiday lights are blue-white, not warm - kind of weird, creepy.

Someday we may have to switch, but since we only put up three strings of lights outside, I'll stick with the regular ones for now.

I am betting that the tree at Rockefeller has much larger bulbs than the tiny ones we use. I could see that making a larger difference.

Les said: But the LED white holiday lights are blue-white, not warm - kind of weird, creepy...

My husband bought them by mistake to use outside, they are blue-white and I am not happy with them. :(

I love the idea of saving energy with LEDs.

But am I the only one who can't look AT LED lights?? They HURT my eyes. If I see an LED tree and try to look directly at it, I CAN'T! My eyes keep sliding away so I am only catching it from the corners or my eyes.

I did see a lit up display at Target yesterday and only one of the styles of LEDs seemed like soemthing I could look at--it was the small multifaceted white mini lights. The rest just hurt...

I'm happy to see a lot of posts from people concerned about energy conservation.

Flyleft, sorry it's taken me so long to get back with the list of materials used in LEDs. I haven't found the original source I saw, but have checked into a few others. I took years of chemistry, but couldn't tell you about the reactivity or toxicity of these compounds. I know that benzene, naphthalene, and arsenic are poisonous. Whether or not the arsenic is bound up in a non-reative compound, I don't know. Ditto about the other compounds.

Here's an abstract I found:

"A series of novel electroluminescent bispyridyl compounds, which contain central thiophene, benzene, and naphthalene cores, are synthesized and used as light emitting diode (LED) dopants in LED polymer blends. Several single-layer electroluminescent (EL) devices are fabricated by spin-coating various molecularly doped polymer blends (comprising bispyridyl compounds as the guests and poly(N-vinylcarbazole) (PVK) as the host) onto indium�"tin�"oxide (ITO) glass. The photoluminescence (PL), EL, and current�"voltage (I�"V) properties of these doped LED polymers are studied."

Here's something else, from wikipedia:

"Conventional LEDs are made from a variety of inorganic semiconductor materials, producing the following colors:

* Aluminium gallium arsenide (AlGaAs) �" red and infrared
* Aluminium gallium phosphide (AlGaP) �" green
* Aluminium gallium indium phosphide (AlGaInP) �" high-brightness orange-red, orange, yellow, and green
* Gallium arsenide phosphide (GaAsP) �" red, orange-red, orange, and yellow
* Gallium phosphide (GaP) �" red, yellow and green
* Gallium nitride (GaN) �" green, pure green (or emerald green), and blue also white (if it has an AlGaN Quantum Barrier)
* Indium gallium nitride (InGaN) �" near ultraviolet, bluish-green and blue
* Silicon carbide (SiC) as substrate �" blue
* Silicon (Si) as substrate �" blue (under development)
* Sapphire (Al2O3) as substrate �" blue
* Zinc selenide (ZnSe) �" blue
* Diamond (C) �" ultraviolet
* Aluminium nitride (AlN), aluminium gallium nitride (AlGaN), aluminium gallium indium nitride (AlGaInN) �" near to far ultraviolet (down to 210 nm[9])"

I'm certainly not against LEDs and I hope to see lots more advancement in safe, renewable energy SOON!. I just want the bottom line to be as clean and efficient as possible. Here's an interesting article about Google's initiative. I'm glad these are starting to come from wealthy companies and individuals with a conscience, since the gov't is seemingly never going to show leadership here.

An interesting link: google article

namabafo, i forgot to mention that i've also read that there's some concern over the wavelengths they emit causing some health problems. this was a vague comment with no specifics, and i bet no conclusive research. but maybe the wavelength is what's bothering your eyes?

Don't use a timer either. Just found out that our timer for the outdoor LED lights uses more energy than having the lights on all the time! Crazy.

Well I watched the tree lighting at Rockefeller Center last night and I don't care for the look of the LED lights on that tree. There were no "white" lights but the rest of the colors were very saturated and kind of eerie looking to me. Not soft and classic like the old one. But hey, one of these days we'll get it right. :)

Just found out that our timer for the outdoor LED lights uses more energy than having the lights on all the time! Crazy.

That's pretty much the same scenario with fluorescents. They'll last longer and be more energy efficient if you leave them on all the time. I had a fluorescent light over my sink in the old kitchen and built into my O'Keefe & Merritt stove. I left both on 24/7. In 25 years I think I replaced both tubes only 3 times each!

Cookie - YIKES. We've replaced all our exterior Xmas lights with LED but they are all run on a timer. Could you please provide the source for your statement? We had a ton of the *old style* lights but Mr Energy Concious insisted on replacing them all. IMO given they are very expensive this has been a total waste of money if the timer thing is true. I need to show him this info.

I find the red and green pretty true to color but agree about the white. Still gonna be using the old mini lites until they improve the white led's.

What I don't like about LED Xmas lights is that you can't change bulbs. Thus if you want to have red lite, green lite, red lite, green lite or whatever . . . no can do. It's all one color or nada. Not at all happy about that and didn't know this when they were purchased or I may have chosen otherwise. Will also be interesting to see how long they last - given the cost - as I understand you can't replace anything but instead must throw the whole string away and buy a new one. So how environmentally sound is that??

CFL's are terribly ugly. They'll need to be improving their appearance greatly before I'll be buying them whereever they are visible.

What are the altenatives for Halogen/Xenon bulbs and Puck lights? Are there any? Inquiring minds. . .

We were at Ikea today and found several different models of LED lights--some completely NOT inspiring and some really precious (in a good way), looked like pomegranate seeds, inside faceted crystal-like things. There were even some that changed color every 10 seconds that were quite cute, and the solid color strands were clean clear, green, red, and purple--very pretty, to my eye. There are some "chandeliers" that look like blue-"white" ping-pong balls that I really didn't like at all--but the "clear" ping-pong ball chandelier, if I were that way inclined, was quite acceptable.

But they are expensive, compared to incandescents, but then again there are more important things than money. Our family tries to think what is best from as many sides as possible.

egganddart, I do wonder about disposal of these things...I have to trust that "they" will solve this issue, just as "they" are improving the batteries/transmissions in hybrid cars--the market will drive it. Anything else you find, *please* post, esp. if you can translate it into humanities-speak :)

We have four strings of red up. We bought a watt meter and the timer registers more wattage than the 4 strings of lights. We figure the cost to run the lights is one cent per day - that's for running 24 hrs/day. It's better to keep them on than to open the door and unplug them - gas prices in Ontario you know!

Fly, I doubt I can translate much. My science days (years) were an uncharacteristic shift from my general humanities orientation, but impressed me because it was all so foreign to me. I don't remember many specifics, but enough general stuff to set my antennae up from time to time.

I always, as you said, try to weigh all the costs of things we use, not just the monetary cost. It gets crazy quickly. My 13-year old son just did a report on the use of plastic water bottles that shows how a seemingly simple act like getting some water on the run turns into a multidimensional environmental problem of very big proportions! Yikes!

Speaking of hybrids, we just bought a Prius a few months ago and it's great. But I'm impatient for the improvements to come already. My husband's '96 Saturn got 44 mpg. Our Prius only averages a few more.

Anyway, I'm glad the movement is finally gathering some steam and that a random selection of people like those on a decorating forum are interested.

I've already purchased three sets of LED Christmas lights, though I don't decorate for Christmas. One is a set of "chasing" lights that I will mount behind our stained glass fake fireplace when we get it set up - I think that will look neat to make it look like the fire is flickering.

The other two are tiny little blue stars - they were just so cute, I could not resist. I'm not sure where I will use them, but since the strands were less than $10 each, I figured they were worth it. Found them at Wal-Mart of all places.

I won't be running out to replace my thousands of lights, already have a fortune in them, and the new LED lights are 3 times more expensive! it took years to collect our lighting and lawn ornaments, we did our part and replaced bulbs inside and in outside lamp post with the new style bulbs so that's it for us...we'll just bite the bullet and pay one month of a higher elec. bill.

There is a local shopping center that has a tradition of wrapping their trees in lights. It's quite a show; these trees are HUGE, and they're tightly wrapped all the way up into the branches. At night it looks amazing.

We drove by last night and I had to look away. They were all wrapped in these "loud" blueish lights that hurt my eyes. Across the street another vendor had their trees wrapped in the more traditional yellowish lights and it was gorgeous. I guess the other guys used LED lights.

My neighbor switched to LED outdoor Christmas lights last year. What I didn't like was how puny the light was....toooooo dim. Big contrast between our C9 reds and his LEDs.

We usually run four or five strands of outdoor lights 24 hours a day for the month. We turn off the regular outdoor lights for December. In the house, the tree and a lighted garland and a couple of small lighted things are the extent of it. Our electric bill doesn't rise that much...a couple of dollars from the lights. One of the keys is that we turn off our regular outdoor lamp post and garage light. Indoors one lamp doesn't get used during Christmas. It's a trade-off.

We are slowly replacing all our incandesent bulbs in the house. I'll miss the warmth of the old bulbs, but the new energy savers are looking better and better each year.

For now, the LEDs are staying in the stores. Someday....maybe.....

Here is a link that might be useful: Creative Soul

While I agree that the LED lights look very different from the regular ones, we did go with LED this year. We strung the outside of our 1600 sq ft house with just 2 strings of lights that we got for $8 a box at Costco. I'm not thrilled with the colors, they remind me of a Mexican restaurant for some reason. BUT after researching the energy savings I just couldn't go with the traditional lights this time - the difference in energy consumption is astounding. So even though I'm not in love with them, I will be using these from now one.

OOPS
I meant to say that 2 strings of lights covered only the front of our house, not all the way around.

OMG ... who in their right mind would use these lights? I saw 2 houses on my street with a combo of the white LED and regular white incandescent. The LED looked like something from the valley of the dead. If that's the option of the future you might as well forget it.

I bought 2 strands of the colored LED lights for our small tree this year. It is great that the bulbs don't get hot and I could leave them on day and night but they were too dim. I went out and bought two more strands of lights that weren't LED and wrapped them around the tree after it was decorated. I can finally see some light coming from the tree.

De

I'm waiting until they perfect them and the price goes down. I don't care for the blueish tint. It seems that would be easily solved by making the plastic cover slightly yellow rather than clear.

Terri, we're waiting too--although the Ikea "gold" lights pretty much do what you're talking about. They have some "white" lights that look really creepy, like light-but-not-light, actually make my eyes hurt a bit--but the golds and other colors are beautiful, I think. DD decided for us that we will have *no* lights this year rather than LEDs--she wants to save energy completely to counteract all the hundreds of houses she sees that are spending it. She's actually keeping count now (LED-houses don't count).