This is very exciting!! Congrats on getting the addition done!

Re drawers vs. ROTS, by the stove is exactly where I wouldn't want ROTS behind doors. The doors are going to be in the way of the stove and a total PITA. The advantage of ROTS is that you can change the height if you need to. Sometimes, it's also nice to be able to look in from the side, though I think with your layout the doors would kind of negate that.

A few people have ROTS without doors, to have an easy reach in, like open shelves, but still be able to pull out the tray and get to the stuff in the back. That would work.

Otherwise, get drawers.

I have mostly three drawers, one utensil on top, and then a medium deep and a very deep. Those work great! They're perhaps a little deeper than need be, but I think that's only visible because the air space comes out with the drawer, rather than needing it for maneuvering through it over a shelf. The trick is not to stack things so high that they're hard to use, just because you can stack things higher. I have one two drawer stack to line up with my fridge drawers. Those are really too deep. I have a big stack of melamine mixing bowls in one, and a stack of colanders in the other, because they're easy to take in and out (and I use them right there). They'd be way too deep for pots, but would be fine for small appliances and oversized cookware like a stockpot or pressure cooker.

2. For the crown, I think the best thing would be to leave a small gap between the crown on the lowest wall and the ceiling, and carry that height around the room. I don't know if you've considered wash lights behind the crown, but this would be a great room to do them in.

3. I think you have to figure out why you want glass front cabinets and what you want to put in them. I don't see an either or here at all!

In my opinion, if you do glass fronts over the DW, you should do them on the other side of the window as well. Otherwise, the cabinet and the window will compete for attention. (This isn't always the case, just what I see with this configuration.) I also think that just the one cabinet with glass between the window and the fridge cabinet would look funny. Adding the one in the corner will balance the weights better.

The cabinets either side of the stove would look nice. Would it be too much symmetry? I might break that up, myself, but a lot of people love symmetry. But what are you putting in them by the stove? Cooking spray? Is that decorative?

So figure out why you want glass, and what you want them for, and you'll know the answer to where to put them and what size.

BTW, re modifications, check your local glass company. They might be able to either make an all glass door or modify the actual cabinet door for not much more than the cost of the glass.

It's going to be lovely!

There are lots of layout experts on this forum and I'm definitely not one of them, but I noticed that you don't have trash located next to either sink. That would be a big issue for me.

In terms of 2 drawers vs. 3 drawers, I'd go with 3. I have a 2 drawer stack in my powder room that takes advantage of a blind corner in the kitchen. Each drawer is tall enough for a roll of paper towels (my cabinets are inset so I'm sure the effects drawer height). I think the drawer height might be overkill in a kitchen, plus I personally think they look a little awkward. If I were re-ordering my cabinet, I'd get a 3 drawer stack instead. In my kitchen, I have a 3 drawer stack with one drawer for utensils (top shallow drawer) and 2 deep pot drawers. I find their height to be perfect for me. I have a second 3 drawer stack with silverware (top shallow drawers), dish towels and tupperware (two deep lower drawers), and again, I find them to be perfect depth.

I've included a link to a photo of my utensil drawer. There's also a photo of one of my pots and pans drawers and one of my two drawer powder room stack in the album if you're interested.

I hope this helps a little. Good luck!

Here is a link that might be useful:

For some reason, I had trouble putting the html code in my message above. It kept rejecting me. So I used the image code instead, which only links to the one picture and not my album. If you want to see my other drawers, you can see my album on the FKB, or you can search for the post of my final reveal of my new "antique" kitchen. Some mornings I'm a computer moron.

Peace_rose! so similar to my kitchen-gut reno it's amazing! we're in the middle of it, cabinets arrive next week . . . but i, like arlosmom, don't feel tied to symmetry -- i think there's entirely too much of it that interferes with efficient kitchen use. i'm making full use of the space next to my cook top/ range hood and not splitting it into small-width cabinets -- was at a friends who has 18" on either side, and they, IMO, are practically useless and annoying to reach into. try it if you haven't yet. Also, i adore 36" wide bottom cabinets -- you have the room to make this work. i'm definitely not as experienced as many GW posters, and my kitchen's not complete yet, but those are my thoughts! (and i agree about trash placement near sink, too -- very important) i'll be really excited to see what happens with yours! best of luck!

Are the doors of your dishwasher and refrigerator going to fight, or is the fridge hinged only on the left?

I have drawers flanking my range and much prefer them to rollouts here. They are 3-drawers each, two deep and one regular top drawer. I keep baking dishes on the left with potholders/towels in the top, and pots and pans on the right with cooking utensils in the top. Quick and easy to access without opening 2 doors all the way and then pulling out the rollout.

That's looking great.

I think you could either do crown at the top of the cabinets, but insure that it doesn't touch the ceiling (visually belongs to the cabinets). Or do a flat molding that you can continue on the wall that forms a headliner.

BUT and this is what you need to think about in any case, a 42" tall cabinet is a tight fit with an 8 foot ceiling. If you have the traditional 36" counter height plus 18" to bottom of wall cabinet, there isn't any room left for crown. Because of the slope, you might be able to put a "top" on the uppers, but not a crown. I don't know what you are doing for cabinets, but might it be possible to switch to 39" upper?

Definitely not ROTS for pot storage! The difference between doors and rots, aside from what plllog said, is how much falls out the side when you open it!

When you look at the depth of drawers, think about what you'd like to store there and how you'll do it. Interesting things to take to visit a cabinet display are your largest frying pan, cookie sheet and stock pot. Or a large roasting pan.

I like lids on edge and pots or pans in a single level so I turn a lot of stuff on edge. So I need some deep and some not-so-deep. If you use a two drawer, can you "file" your pots instead of piling them? If the answer is NO, you might be better off with two 3 drawer units.

On the glass doors, I'm in the all or nothing - meaning the cabinets on the sink and range walls. I'd consider a frosted or ribbed or glue chip glass that was the full door rather than one that came in panes. I wouldn't want to compete with the windows or introduce a different pattern of little squares.

Wow! How exciting - congratulations on seeing the end in sight. I think my only question is about the cabinets that flank the window. According to the drawing, it looks like the window over the sink might not be centered/equal distance from the cabinets on each side. Incase this would bother you, is there any way to tweak this arrangement?

I think it is always important to listen to your gut!! I think one of each of the 2 and 3 drawers would be very nice and give you more flexibility; you still have the overall effect of symmetry from the windows and the 30" width of the cabinets. I agree with Jossfan, you can go overboard trying to make things too symmetrical.

I'd swap the MW and 18" drawer base in the island and make the 18" drawer base the trash location. That would be centrally located between the cleanup and prep zones and put the MW more firmly in the snack zone. I'd forgo the skinny wall cabinets on either side of the range in favor of some open shelving and a narrow pull out pantry the the left of the fridge. Or, with so much food storage in the pantry cabinets across the island, I might suggest a full length bookcase facing the DR to the left of the fridge and put doors on the cabinets under the window/pantry area. Lose the bookcase on the island for an extra seat. 42" is awfully crowded for seating for 2. 24" is the minimum recommended, and 30" much better for grownups who'll have to sit slightly sideways. If your clearance can manage it, a 15" overhang for seating would be more comfortable than the 12".

Thanks, everyone. It's definitely more of a relief to be at the tweaking stage rather than deciding which side of the room to locate the stove!

In response to the feedback above:
- bmorepanic, that's so good to know about the 39" uppers making it easier to work with the molding. Here's the kink: the cabinet company only has 30, 36 and 42" tall uppers. I would be open to mixing up the heights. Or do you think we could lower the 42" cabs to 16 or 17 inches off the counter? I'm only 5'5" so I wouldn't mind having an easier reach. The 8' clearance is only a problem behind the stove and in the corners, if we could come up a creative solution in those areas.

- Jossfan, now I'm having minor regret not making 2 36" wide base cabs on either side of the stove! But we did center the stove between the windows, so moving it 6" to the right wouldn't work at this point

- idrive, we can change the hinges on the fridge. Currently they are on the right side. It's a bottom freezer that pulls out.

- Collective feedback has helped me come to the realization that the 3 drawer option would probably fit my needs better.

-Live_wire_oak, you always throw me for a loop! :) I do like the idea of swapping the microwave with the 18" cabinet. But a long time ago I wondered if that would be too many doors opening in one spot? (Fridge, DW and micro?). But I guess I've got the same problem with the drawers in the current set-up.

Also, I love, love, love open shelving, but I'm not sure if I could talk DH into it near the stove. Same for the pull-out pantry.

Now for the island. As for the 42" wide seating...someday I will be saying "I told you so", to my dh. (Are you sensing a theme here?) I'm even trying to get him to use a 21" depth prep sink cab so as to gain an extra 3". But no go. One reason for that 30" wall base at the end of the island is for dinner plates, bowls and silverware. My kids are still small, so I wanted a place where they could reach and participate in setting the table and putting the dishes away.

As for the trash....probably the most used thing in the whole kitchen! My thoughts were to keep it along the pantry wall so that non-cooks could toss their stuff in and stay out of my way. And then I'd probably have a secondary, smaller trash (and maybe a compost bucket) under the prep sink or main sink. And then there's still *gasp* the possibility of locating a stainless flip top can next to the fridge.

I guess I like the open shelves or pot rack thing or both at the range. Even if the pot rack only holds your 5 most used pots, you'll enjoy it.

We made one shorter Grundtal shelf by breeding the rails from the shorter 20" single kitchen rail with the 31" shelf sides. We needed a couple of longer single rails so we created some by breeding the 31" leftover rail with the ends from the shorter kit. We sold the others and didn't lose too much :) If you liked the Grundtalness shelves that is.

Other than I like the open feeling, it would provide the excuse not to have crown on that wall. If the crown only exists on the other two walls it can die into the ceiling.

The other thing that might work is a very different cabinet format only there - like 15" tall up-opening cabinets, 24" tall ones with metal or the only glass fronts.

You can certainly move the wall cabinets down, and you may want that anyway, but I'd hesitate in moving them down 3 inches without checking out all your on counter appliances and gear.

And I have some specific hesitation near the range. I'm not sure that has any reason behind it or if its an emotional reaction to feeling closed in at the range.

A true confession: I don't speak IKEA! Just used their software. :) But I am getting intrigued by the idea of a pot rack on either side of the stove. We only have 18" on either side though. What if we used 18x30" cabinets and mounted them higher, and put some hooks on the underside? If I'm thinking correctly that would be 30" off the counter.

bmorepanic, can you post a link to your kitchen? I'm thinking you've got a pot rack against the wall? (The only thing I'm grieving over my current kitchen set up is the loss of a pot rack - I love how functional it is!)

I used my *rudimentary* photo editing skills to mock up a pot rack on either side of the stove. Do you think they are too narrow (18") to be functional? One thought that occurred to me is that if I don't like them later on we could just build some open shelving below. What do y'all think:

Maybe someone has pictures of similar setups?

And here's live_wire_oak's suggestion to swap the microwave with the 18" cab:

I'm terrible with spatial relations, so never have good layout thoughts/advice to impart, but one small suggestion is to have a door(s) on the 6" dead space under the island overhang. It won't be the most accessible or deepest storage space, but it might come in handy for some odds and ends that you won't need all the time, but would like to keep in the kitchen. If you don't want to put handles on the door(s), you can always use "hidden" pulls or a magnetic catch and no handle.

Our 6" deep "found" space/cabs in our island is not covered by an overhang, so might be more useful than yours would be, but it might be something to consider.

Oh, good thinking! Actually, we're ordering a 27" wide full height (no drawer) base for the microwave. We figured we would find a use for the doors - your idea would be a perfect use for the doors!! Thank you cat_mom!

Maybe I should quit while I'm ahead, but I just saw on a design show how stacked cabinets make everything look more custom. What do you think of stacked cabs in the corner?

It's not a very true representation because the computer program wouldn't line them up right, and the IKEA cab is 15" tall instead of 12". (In real life it would be 361212). The other problem is that we can't get a 24x12x12 for the cab above the DW.

The only argument I can make concerning roll-out trays inside cabinet doors is DON'T do it. Each time you need something from a roll out you need to open the cabinet door completely to 90 degrees (unless it is a small item at the very front of the tray). Then pull out the tray. So you need two motions each time you need something. Changing to drawers was one of my most loved things about my new kitchen. You will LOVE having pots and pans in a deep drawer.

Yay! I was debating whether to mention it or not since it would be under your seating area, but figured it couldn't hurt to let you know about that as a possibility.

One other thing. We have a cabinet w/ pull-outs to the right of our range. Our KD designed it that way, probably more for symmetry than anything else (there's a narrower cab on the left side of the range; narrower, yes, but a cabinet w/ a door just the same). We did inquire about going w/ drawers instead (after we'd joined GW!), and he said we could do that if we wanted to. We opted to stick with the cab w/ pull-outs--gave us the flexibility to adjust the pull-outs up or down if we needed to. We also thought it would provide better accessiblity to the handles of smaller pots and all of our pans (all the stockpots are stored in a nice deep drawer in our island).

Now, I do gripe a bit about the door front bumping against the built-in fridge side panel next to it, but, it is easier to access my fry-pans/skillets/saute pans with the lower height of the pull-out vs a drawer front. I have my pans stacked on top of each other, and usually slide whichever one I need out by its handle, so the clearance afforded me by the pull-outs come in handy. It's all about trade-offs. I still grimace when I open the door with a bit of force and it bumps against the fridge side panel, but I remember the trade-off I chose and why I chose it, and I'm fine . :-)

When you empty your dishwasher are you walking across the room with glasses, dishware and silverware? Will you use the glass to store your day to day high use dishes? I have my everyday glasses and dishes next to the sink and dishwasher and extra pieces of my dish set such as serving bowls, small dessert plates and bowls displayed in glass across the room. I didn't want kids, and family in and out of the glass cabinets!!! My kitchen reno included lots of structural changes and I found it extremely hard to visualize actually using the kitchen....these little details can be sooooo important in the long run!!!!

That's why we need each other to catch those little details before putting our little plans into action! :) I'm thinking we'll be putting the day to day dishes at the end of the island, and I'd like to put some colorful Fiestaware or and drinking glasses up there in the cabinets.

I'm still considering the hanging pots / ladles on either side of the stove. Any thoughts on that?

I've seen worse things than the hanging stuff, but I'd prefer to have those things in drawers if there's room. Actually, I'd rather have a lighted potrack (there's even an inexpensive one on Amazon) over the island if the storage is needed, and a toekick step or something for a boost if it's hard to reach. I don't relate really well to pot racks because I've been using cast iron for so long, but it would be convenient to have it there. By the stove, I'd just get getting gunk on the things (I actually splash on my backsplash.

plllog, you are killing me. I actually really like it! We've got 2 holes in the ceiling that are waiting for pendant lights...they would have to be patched....will wait for the right moment to bring it up with dh, hee, hee :)

I ain't got no finished pictures yet, but I do have this complete with plastic on window to keep sun out.

I hope this works. It shows a picture from atticmag with the maus house kitchen - also containing a grundtal used as a pot rack in a different way. Maus House tour

The rack plllog linked is nice.

B'more, I love it!! Kitchen is looking good.

Peace Rose, you did ask!