Ellen--Do you have a floor plan view looking down onto the whole plan so we can see all the dimensions in one place? Even a to-scale drawing on graph paper works. I have trouble visualizing the whole space together just seeing the elevation views. Glad to see you're coming along with your plans!

Do you like the peninsula? Your kitchen reminds me of my sister's and Odiegirl13's before layouts...and they both went to islands for better flow and more openness to the dinette area.

Here is a link that might be useful: Thread with Odiegirl's new layout

Breezy... I posted so much info and forgot something that would be most helpful! I will ask DH to draw one for me and will post as soon as I can. Thanks.

Rhome, I am not committed to the peninsula. It is definitely my primary work space, so I wouldn't want an island to be much smaller. It's also where we set out appetizers or create a buffet when entertaining, and where we put snacks out for the kids. One nice thing about it is that it sort of creates a barrier that keeps people on the other side of it, out of the main workspace (somewhat. Everyone still ends up in the kitchen!) It's also what I'm used to, but I don't want to get stuck on that.

We've had one contractor and one KD out to take a look, and both told us we don't have room for an island. They said once the range oven and dishwasher doors are open, there's not room to get around the island. Do you have a different perspective? I do think eliminating the peninsula could go a long way in opening up the nook area.

Thanks

It's easy to miss something when you're trying to assemble all relavant info.

Rhome is a wizard with layouts, and will definetly tell you if you have enough room for an island after you post the dimensions of the room on the layout. I trust her more than any KD I've ever met!

When you've got the basic floorplan/layout of the kitchen done, then you can work about the details of drawer sizes, etc. You know, just like I'm doing now!

I just noticed while scrolling up to the top to look at your pics that your house layout reminds me of Bellacucina's. I'll try to find it for you.

Here it is. It looks like her kitchen had a bit more width than yours. And her fridge is where your range is.

Here is a link that might be useful: Bellacucina's new kitchen

Breezy, I was thinking of that one, too, but couldn't remember the name.

Peninsulas seem to do more to keep people in than keep them out. That was my sister's main complaint. People still wandered in, but without the flow an island provides, everyone stood in the way and on top of each other. In your kitchen plan with the dishwasher open, a lot of access to the peninsula and the uppers is gone.

With the island: The open dw still might be a traffic block, but you have other ways around, and access to it from 2 sides. The range is only open a minute, and hopefully, people are staying out of the cook's way, and again, have other ways around the kitchen.

I think you could fit, similar to the kitchens we've shown above, an island of 30 - 36" deep. I would make 36" fit, if it were mine, giving you, I think, approx 39" aisles. Not the ultimate, but many people do more than fine with 36". You might not miss 3" on the island and go to 33" depth in order to get more aisle between island and fridge wall for buffet traffic.

You might end up with a bit of a barrier problem between sink and fridge if you keep the 30" pantry where it is. I suppose you're wanting to move the fridge out of the dining room doorway, but in an island plan, if it were straight across from the stove aisle, you'd avoid going around the island to the fridge, so no barrier problem. One of the trade-offs.

I really think this is too tight for an island, particularly with the DR door location, which is going to funnel people right to the corner of the island.

36"-39" might be alright for one aisle, but for both I think it's tight. Try bending over or crouching in front of something open in a 36" space and see if you don't have a tendency to hit the opposite run of cabinets.

Breezy, I just checked again, and I did include a floorplan view of the kitchen space. It is the first of the drawings, following the pics of the current space. Are you looking for a plan that includes the eating nook, family room, etc dimensions? I think we've got one, I will add it later.

Rhome, thanks for your comments. I am out now, but look forward to taking a closer look once I'm home.

I know that 36" (or the 39" I suggested) is tighter than 'recommended,' but it seems like many, many here on the forum have reported being quite happy with 36" aisles. Depends on the size of the people and what the trade offs are, I'm sure. Try to mock it up and see what you think? I have a 36" aisle in front of my rangetop (granted, nothing opens, except drawers there), but it's much roomier than I expected.

The other option would be a narrower island, which can still be quite useful. Here is the URL for a previous discussion called "Please post pictures of your narrow island and work aisles," and I've linked another related thread below:

http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/kitchbath/msg0522364832711.html

Here is a link that might be useful: Thread entitled

It was supposed to say the thread was entitled "Narrow Work Aisles" but at least the link gets you there...

I think sometimes a peninsula works better. It looks like if you switch to an island layout, you will loose the counter seating. Nonetheless, I did see this photo that could give you an idea.

Here is a link that might be useful: [narrow island[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/tiburon-home-remodel-traditional-kitchen-san-francisco-phvw-vp~46400)

I have a couple of observations (I'll leave the peninsula vs island discussion to others) -
-once you put hardwood through the whole space and get rid of the carpeting in the family room which basically acts as a barrier for your nook furniture placement, it will be easier to place your furniture. You'll be able to move your couch in a little and open up the nook area. In small spaces an oval table often works better, as it gets rid of those harsh jutting-out corners of a square/rectangular table.

- the pantry/fridge wall needs a little work cleaning it up design wise. You have a lot of different cabinet levels which is a little disconcerting to look at. You have the lower level of the upper cabinets at the bar area, then the higher cabinet level at the oven level, then the even higher cabinet level over the fridge, and then the nonmatching level for the pantry. Do you see what I mean. The lower edge of the upper cabinets don't match at all. My suggestion is to split your pantry at the same level as your cabinets at the bar, and if possible adjust the heights of your ovens so that the cabinets match that height as well. there is nothing you can do about the fridge but people are used to seeing high cabinets above a fridge. (Although maybe the pantry level is matching the top of the oven-stack?)

Your kitchen is similar in size to mine. I have doorways where both of your corners are and no wall where your pantries are, so our layout issues are different, but the space for an island is similar. Having the island would make navigation in a wheel chair more of a challenge, so that might be reason enough to not look further.

My island is composed of 21" deep (vanity depth) cabinets on the side with the prep sink and 13" deep door cabinets (basically uppers on a toekick) on the back side. I store small appliances, outdoor plates and bowls and less often used kitchen tools there. The shallow cabinets are a dream for easy access to all those things I used to have to dig for. Not hunting at all. I could see that being a plus for your DH, in general, if not in an island. My cabinet depth is 34" and my counter top is about 37". My aisles are 37" on the main sink side an 40" on the cooktop side, reduced to 37 where the rangetop bumps out (it made DH happy). We had roughly the same space before. We couldn't really change the footprint, so mer made it more functional. We don't have a problem with the aisles, and before we redid the kitchen, the one place we did have an issue was where the island cooktop and sink (only sink then) were almost directly across form each other. If DH was helping prep or decided to "help" by doing dishes while I was cooking, it was a constant butt bump. Now those zones are separated and there is a prep sink on the opposite side of the island. By letting us work on both sides, and even the ends, of the island, we have the same width aisles, but it really opened up our kitchen. I have never cringed and wished for just a few more inches, but I have often been grateful that my prep sink is just a pivot and a step away from both the cooktop (draining, prep, etc) and the baking area (egg goo, bread dough, etc.). And I love, love, love the fact that we kept the original size island (or slightly smaller -- originally one big open box with a huge downdraft blower and a couple of drawers) and made it a highly effective workspace and efficient storage.

Here's one way an island (with seating) might work...

Was there a wheelchair need I missed? Is seating at the island a definite need? If so, would it be for meals, for helpers, often used, or just occasional?

Is there any way to bump the fridge into the living room and create a shelving unit or something next to the bump on that side?

Just looked quickly -- I think I got two posts confused while I was trying to sneak a quick look before going outside to do some yard work. I remembered someone saying they needed the peninsula for a disabled DH, so th wheelchair comment was as much a question as anything, since the needs weren't clear. Sorry if I started down the wrong rabbit trail......

:-) Oh, yeah. That was Plumberry.

Thank you all so much for your comments! No, there is no wheelchair need in our kitchen.

And, yes, we do use the peninsula counter for seating. My kids eat breakfast there every morning, and often lunches on the weekends. In addition, that is where our friends sit when we entertain. It does seem like there is always someone sitting there, which is why I'm unsure about an island. People sitting at one would have their backs to the wall oven, microwave, pantry/fridge (whichever one we put there).

Is keeping the peninsula a problem?

I sure appreciate all your comments -- I no longer feel all alone in this! :)

Is keeping the peninsula a problem?

Not necessarily...Just offering another possible alternative, as you seemed possibly interested. It's about trade-offs and which things are most important to you. The downsides of the peninsula are things I mentioned before...

1) People tend to flow in, but not out.
2) The work area is tighter, and with the dw open, you lose kitchen access to the uppers to the right of the sink, and the peninsula workspace.
3) It makes the kitchen less multiple-worker-friendly, as there is less flow and less floor area to spread out in, so more traffic tie-ups, and offers fewer possible work areas.

The upsides:

1) you have the seating that's out of the way
2) you have a layout you're used to and find workable
3) any other aspects you like about it that I don't see :-)

Rhome -- I am definitely open to the idea of an island. In fact, DH and I cut one out of cardboard and put it in place last night. Obviously, we can't remove that one part of the peninsula for the test, but we're thinking we'll get the idea. Thanks for your feedback.