Thank You!!! And thanks aliris - yes it will come down to personal opinion and you made me stop and really think about what I want/need and why the kitchen needs to be redone.

I'm leaning towards the peninsula option, mainly because I want seating besides table seating. With the island it doesn't allow for seating and it is very similar to the current layout. And like blfenton mentioned an island it creates a traffic median, which I already have and detest - but I didn't know if changing the appliance location would make it feel less median-like. What I also like about the peninsula is that the corner by the slider can be utilized either with drawers, a mini pantry or something.

rhome: should I switch the fridge and pantry if I go with the peninsula? And how big is a small table? I have 5 in the family and in general we all sit down together to eat.

And? could I make the butler's pantry/walk-in smaller by 12 inches? Then the DR isn't made too small.

Thanks again. I'm very visual and the 2D layout makes it difficult to really invision what I want, but stopping to think about what I need makes it easier tho.

oops...meant to link to previous post

Here is a link that might be useful: Previous Post

I wouldn't swap the fridge and pantry in the island option...Just move the fridge next to the pantry. It doesn't matter as much in the peninsula plan. It's a long ways from stove and sink, though, and moving it would make it more convenient while cooking. Have you considered deeper counters on the sink run?

Do you eat in the kitchen or the dining room or both? If the peninsula overhang stayed even with the wall bumpout, I think you could fit up to a 3 x 5 table in the kitchen eating area, or a 42" round.

Our dining room is 11 1/2' by 16'. I'm not sure another foot in width will do that much for yours? Unless you plan furniture or cabinetry on those side walls. I don't think I'd want the walk in pantry any narrower... 6" narrower at the most, and the space would have to come out of your shelf depth.

ah...thansk rhome...haven't thought of deeper counters...how deep? Why?

We eat in the kitchen.

The only furniture I have currently in the DR is a table and one buffet. The table is rather largely round and I may move the current kitchen table into the DR, it has a smaller width, 36 inches and can extend to 80ish.

I may lean towards a new kitchen table and look for a round. I saw a copper one that I liked and it comes in 42 or 48inch round. What about a 48inch square?

Do you like the desk area? This is more a homework, kiddie area. Maybe a place for me and a laptop?

Here we go again. I�m so much better at paper drawings but I can�t visualize the 3D and if my imagination is completely off the mark. Here is another idea. Not sure if the wall of appliances is a good idea. But many of my inspiration pics have the fridge at the corner like that. Then I can use that funny corner to better use, and getting rid of the half wall allows for better spacing for a table or something.
Thoughts? Anyone wanna work these plans out in 3D for me? I�m gonna try to see if Lowe�s or something can do it too.

If you're not in a big hurry, I can work on 3Ds. But today I have to print wedding invitations or my dd will have a nervous breakdown. ;-)

Email me through my page and list ceiling height, preferred colors and materials, including cab door style and height of any upper or full height cabs, wall and floor colors, window size and style, appliance style and colors...The software doesn't have everything, so it might not be exact. But, I have to specify a lot of this stuff, so I might as well try to get it as close to what you want as possible. You may have talked about this in the thread already, but it's easier to have it in an email, and all in one spot.

Here is a similar 3D layout from last year of your kitchen with an island (just to hold you off till Rhome410 can do one exactly like the layout you have posted above; her software and renditions are awesome).

Some thoughts on the above options. If you go with the peninsula, definitely consider Rhome's advice to move it over a foot so you can have an overhang and table, especially since you eat in the kitchen. It's so much better to sit at a table for meals. When the kids are middle and high school age, they are more inclined to relax at the table and talk long after eating than they are if perched on a stool. Also, it will be more useful, IMO, to have that big counter a bit closer to the action in the kitchen.

I don't like the island in option 2. It's too far from the stove to be a useful prep space and it also makes having a kitchen table impossible.

I like option 3 but with the island moved closer to the range. I wouldn't want an aisle wider than 4 ft (I prefer 3.5) between the prep zone and the range. You could also easily fit a prep sink there too. I know it might seem silly and extravagant to have two sinks so close together, but it would be so useful. To me, a dream kitchen is one that has the prep zone completely separate from the clean up zone. Doesn't matter if they are close to each other as long as they don't overlap. I hate having only one sink. I also really like having the refrigerator at the end of the sink run in this option.

Another thing I like about option 3 are the built-ins in the DR and widening the DR doorway. I can't wait to see Rhome's 3D version.

oh cheri thank you! I really appreciate your thoughts too.

I've figured out that all my inspiration pics have islands and I don't like the peninsula look, so I'm thinking that is out.

I like option 3 too because it opens things up and uses the corner by the slider. Not sure about the fridge there tho, I've considered putting it along the wall of the DR or back along the garage wall because the one I want is deep and would need to be recessed. But I like having everything together. I can't wait for rhome's ideas either. patience...patience...patience is a virture...

Just starting.... Sorry, I know it's hard to wait.

Still the most important view is the layout. Be sure it will work for you. That the work paths work, the zones work, the storage works. It's easy to love renderings, because they all tend to look pretty.

I didn't try for greenish walls. On the computer I did the drawings on, it was a soft golden tan.

Let me know if you want anything changed, or to see one of your other layouts drawn up.

I *love* those bookshelf dividers! sigh.

These pictures will really help you to envision the potential "traffic stop" you mentioned. This a a very long-flowing, open feel. I'm guessing your kids will love that!

Rhome -- wedding? Congratulations!

2 weddings, actually. 19 days apart. Phew!

I feel so special! Thanks so much...can't express those thanks quite enough on here! Now my hubby can get a real feel for it too. And in the middle of planning 2 weddings. You are a sweetheart! Paint color...smaint color, like you said anything like that looks wonderful...but it looks even more beautiful to know that is what I can have in my kitchen.

I really like how the kitchen opens up to the family room and dining room.

I like how the fridge is enclosed and there is usuable cabinets around it. Just not sure I like where it is - granted that is where I put it...any other place you would think it would fit?

I like how the kitchen wall with smaller pantry cabinets allows for more floor space around the island - so I don't know that putting the fridge over there would really work. Since the fridge I want is deep (35 inches), I may have to go with a different one to keep it there or I've considered placing it in the DR facing the kitchen, recessing it with built in arounds it and the odd space it creates in the DR making a built in buffet or something along the DR/garage wall. Lotsa cabinet cost tho ;-)

Wow...you have totally made my weekend and maybe I can order cabinets this week? Makes this seem so real. Now the big question...am I ready?

Cosmocat. This is a great kitchen. If you move the fridge, you'll be right back where you are now...having to take too many steps, around the island to access it. Where it is in the above layout makes it easily accessible to ALL areas...the kitchen table, the DR, the family room and most importantly, the cook. No one has to cross any work zones to get to it, it has both a counter and island landing space. If you set it up like ours, you don't have to take any steps to make cereal, toast, coffee or sandwiches. Why don't you like it where it is?

Thanks Cheri for bringing me back to reality...the fridge does really fit there for optimal use, I guess part of me feels like I'm looking at a wall but with how open everything is it seems to work best in that spot.

Now where can I put a chalkboard panel?

Fridge: If you could move the laundry door so it lines up with the aisle that goes past the island, and if you could inset the fridge into the garage so it doesn't intrude into the kitchen more than 2 ft, while lining it up with the aisle that goes in front of the stove, I think that might work. Still a bit of going around the island end, but not terrible? Of course, it's farther from the table, but I don't worry about that as much as convenience to the cook, and as long as others can access it without getting in the cook's way.

You'd definitely have a problem with a 35" deep fridge where it is in this last plan.

What kind of chalkboard panel and for what? Can it be incorporated into the laundry door or pantry doors?

which placement do you like better? If I go with it at the end of the sink run, then I'll need a counter depth fridge.

Chalkboard...just a want item. Where it goes it anyone's best guess. Why? uhm because. One of the pantry doors might be fun. Just something different, but also the kids love the white boards and I would like something more than a piece of paper to write messages, grocery list, etc. Need, definitely not.

If you had Shaker style cabinets, it'd be easy to replace a panel with chalkboard...Not as easy with the raised. How about you get a laundry door that might usually have glass, but put in the chalkboard instead?

I'm torn about the fridge location. I'm not a big fan of the original location, usually, as it's a big block between the kitchen and the table area, and is in prime dish storage location. It also makes for much zone crossing, as you're trying to cook and kids might be unloading the dishwasher and setting the table.

However, moved it's away from the table, and you probably need to rethink the microwave location and put it over in the pantry area, too. I like the microwave near the fridge, but also like it near a water source.

I think, that mostly because of the zone-crossing issue, and because it's nice to have food storage (Pantry, fridge) all in one area, I'd opt to put it in the pantry area, and put some lovely dish storage where it was by the table...that could wrap around the corner like you show now, but in a nicer way. Having separated zones is my aim in kitchen design, because it's what makes my kitchen work best for me and my family.

I think I'd like this better. More storage, more counter...the fridge you want. No zone crossing. If you want some separation between the kitchen and the eating area, you could add full-ht cabs back in.

Oooh pretty... Me like :-)

Dang Rhome - those are some impressive renderings. What software is it?

No offense, Rhome, but the fridge in that location wouldn't work for me, especially with island seating. If people are at the island it makes the landing from the fridge awkward. I also don't like that it's right in front of the main doorway into and out of the house. It's already a little tight on that aisle when folks are seated. Seems like a traffic jam waiting to happen. I could see myself getting annoyed as I try to navigate past this action spot with a heavy basket of laundry. In addition, there's a lot of under utilized counter space to the left of the sink. While I agree it's very pretty, it's just not functional enough...unless... you were to put an undercounter fridge there. Then you could have an amazing breakfast/snack area which would also ease some of the traffic around the main fridge/entrance. The money saved not buying a counter depth refrigerator would probably cover the cost of the undercounter fridge. I know this sounds like a silly grievance, but I really, really can't stand the location of the refrigerator at our beach house because it's so far from the DW and therefore the glasses. (Okay, there are other reasons, but that one particularly irritates me lol).

I didn't know there was a desire for island seating. The overhang isn't big enough, and I think, fridge or no, it'd be awfully tight in a main traffic path.

Zone crossing and no dish storage bothers me more than walking past the fridge that might be open for a minute.

Got interrupted and hit 'submit' before finishing... My fridges are no where near my dish storage or dishwashers, and it doesn't bother me in the least. We all do things differently!

No offense to you, Cheri, and none taken. :-)

Sorry to be so disjointed...I'm multi-tasking and maybe not very well! I keep thinking about this...

I could see seating at that island, after all. I'm not always a big stickler on recommendations, depending on the situation and the room. I'm assuming there won't be seated people there 24/7. I wouldn't want them there during the time when traffic was streaming in from work, maybe. I could probably work around it for laundry, and could ask people to move if necessary.

Cooking/prepping wouldn't be a problem, because of the good path from stove and sink that seaters wouldn't be in the way of.

Might be a problem if entertaining a crowd, and guests were chatting at the island while someone needed to get more ice or something else from the fridge.

Like I said, it would annoy me to try to get past table setters and an open dishwasher to get things from the fridge while I was cooking. And that would happen in my house...almost every day...at least once. I probably wouldn't tend to yell while getting through with a basket of laundry, but I'd be much more apt to get agitated, and display it, if I was in a hurry to get a condiment, milk, or whatever to add to something cooking away on the stove while I was in the dinner rush.

It all depends on the way you and your family operate, Cosmocat, and which downsides you're more willing to live with.

I think I've said enough now, and will step away from the computer. ;-)

I thought the island overhang as drawn meant seating. No seating makes it a better. I'd still want that small fridge, though. One of the things I love about our new kitchen is the baking counter that turned into the breakfast/coffee/lunch/snack bar. We have the bread drawer, flatware, cups, bowls, cereal and snacks stored in the drawers below, dishes above, espersso maker, milk frother and toaster on the counter and fridge right next to it.

In any case, this kitchen appears to have much of what cosmoscat is looking for especially with the ability to have a really pretty hutch or something in the area to the left of the sink.

Cosmo, if you adopt this plan, consider putting tall roll out trays in your pantry cabinet instead of the low ones. We have the low ones at the beach and stuff falls over too easily whenever the trays are moved in and out. I will eventually replace them with boxes that are 6" deep (if I ever get the other projects I'm working on completed!).

Good point, Cheri. I detest low-sided rollouts...Everything goes off the sides and backs. With the pantries 2 ft deep in the plan with the fridge there, you could even have drawers, Cosmocat.

wow...debating over my kitchen. Sahweeet. Cheri and rhome you have both brought up some interesting points that I wouldn't have considered, so it truly helps my thinking/deciding process. Thank you!

So...we do get traffic in front of the fridge location, but there are also numerous points of entry: the kids come in from outside by the table, there is a front door that gets used a bunch next to the DR. And there is a door in the family room. And a door in the laundry room to the backyard that never gets used, which led to earlier plan attempting to move the Laundry room door/kitchen access door to get better use of that laundry door to the back and more natural light. But the kitchen lost half of the cabinet storage and seemed to really shrink in size. sorry off track...

Currently the oven and mw reside on that wall (the wall where the fridge might go) and I'm not really bothered by current traffic. Granted the fridge would get more use. And the fridge would be french door, so when open it wouldn't completely take up the space. If the mw lives there too I might consider a landing space countertop. If the fridge needs to be recessed then the mw could be as well. I could see placing a small beverage/snack fridge under the counter by the eating space.

Island seating. It will get used but mostly by the kids for breakfast when I don't anticipate traffic. Or during a party and we would not necessarily need access to the fridge because we have other places were items can be accessed. In the family room I do have a bar area on the opposite side of the room from the stone pillars - where a beverage fridge will live. I could even scoot the island down 6 inches towards the family room. I would just use small stools too, not big chair-like stools. Maybe it would be more an area for kids helping make pizza or cookies and prep space. Would I need a prep sink or pot filler?

I just don't know if I like the big wall the fridge creates (aesthetically speaking, not user friendly use thinking) in the corner by the eating space. Plus I couldn't buy the fridge I want but would need to find a counter depth one. I think it might cut off some of the light too (both coming in from the slider into the kitchen and from the kitchen window into the eating area.)

I've lived with a poorly designed kitchen for 5 years and will need to adjust my habits in the new, so while the fridge may not go in the most optimal space, it is in a space that will work. Part of my frustration with the whole 3 year design process was nothing seemed to fit optimally anywhere, the if/then formatting just didn't work with each appliance. And I think things are each placed in a best case spot and what will work for us. It will look pretty and should function better than what I have which is all I need. Now if I can just get the contractor to move his butt a tad faster. And begin.

NewSouthernBelle, I missed your question about the software...Sorry.

I have Chief Architect. It's the pro version, but they also author the Better Homes and Gardens software for home owners. I think it's pretty user friendly. There are some tricks to make things they don't offer, but I think the home versions probably do most of what you'd want to see.

Any current version will have more options in styles of things than mine does, as it's pretty old now. Oh, and don't be dissuaded by the prices on the website. You can find them for MUCH less on Amazon.

Here is a link that might be useful: BH&G Home Designer Softwares by Chief Architect

Drawers in the lower pantry is a great idea! Much better than roll outs! I really like this kitchen. If it were mine, I would def add an undercounter fridge to create a breakfast/snack bar near the table and I'd put a prep sink in the island. Then it would be perfect. Still great without those items, though. Now, no more over thinking your design, Cosmocat! Time to make a decision and get started. And please come back and post pics when it's done.

Once again, I am surprised and so pleased that the most impossible looking space with difficult requirements and limitations can become a kitchen I could really love...and that is something the owner is happy with.

Love the idea of the breakfast center and the area seems made for it. I agree about the added perfection with a prep sink. Also agree that this can be a pretty great kitchen without either.

I was a little disappointed on your behalf that you won't have a walk-in pantry, but I don't think you can say this kitchen is short on storage. Lots of storage and multiple work spaces...Wonderful.

I was a bit disappointed as well about losing the walk-in pantry. This way tho I think everything will have a home and the pantry won't be a big mess. I'm very good at messes.

Where would a prep sink fit on the island? If you consider the range side as 12:00 o'clock, put the sink at 10ish? What about the overhang? don't think I'd want the sink in an overhang area. I could keep the range side of the island as cabinets and no overhang on that side, just the fridge wall side.

And here I was debating the fridge again. If...hate those ifs...it went back on the sink run I could put a mini desk on the eating area side with a fancy memo board under the cabs like a recent post.

If.
Stop.
But.
Stop.
Just Do It.

Meeting with the contractor here any minute now.

Ding dong...gotta run.

That's why I'm not urging a prep sink in your case. There isn't a really good place. The island isn't overly large and you would have to give up at least a section of overhang. You could maybe do one of those across the stove end that has a sliding cutting board, so is sink and prep space in one? Maybe check out Elizpiz's island and prep sink. If it went on an island corner, it'd be best on the corner nearest the fridge.

Another option would be to have it as more of a secondary sink, rather than for the cook, and have it at the corner nearest the dining room. But that's in the overhang and in the aisle.

I would NOT put it on the window side of the island, so that it's in the aisle with the dw and main sink.

You could do the desk space on the eating side of the wrap, if you want, without moving the fridge back to where you don't want it, and where you'd have to buy a different fridge than planned?

Here is a link that might be useful: Elizpiz's kitchen

OMG...good grief. There is a reason why the kitchen still isn't done. I'm shouting a bunch of nasty words right now.

Besides the fact that my youngest was just diagnosed with allergies to anything and everything under the sun and dear hubby thinks its ok to feed him anything just as long as it is in moderation....grrr...

So. Contractor just came by. Can't have the fridge I want. It would cost $5k to recess into the garage. Just for a fridge isn't worth it.

And guess what? Hey rhome...I get my walk in pantry...maybe. Grrrrrrrrrrrrr.

Go back to the top of this post. Peninsula option.
He still likes the walk-in pantry/ butler's pantry option built into the dining room - his idea of course. The rest, mine. Assume north is up, widen the south DR doorway to the west, shift the west DR doorway to the south, same size, but allows for the walls on either side to be equal. Sink run...wrap the cabinets around the corner near the slider and extend the countertop into the eating area. My concerns, space around the dishwasher to empty dishes into the cabinet above.

My mistake for going off of his drawings and making assumptions. Load bearing smoad bearing.

Why? Cost. Load bearing wall. Headers. Move them then fork over some cash. Powerball numbers aren't working very well for me right now.

I just don't have the brainpower to flip flop between ideas, think I've finally hit on the most beautiful kitchen with help from some awesome people...oh, wait, stop,then start over again. And again.

$5000 to create what amounts to a doorway? Load-bearing walls have doorways.

I heard that 'he likes his own idea.' So? Who's living here? (I'm not questioning you...but him.)

yeah, I don't know sometimes. It is a little more than a doorway because it needs a floor for the fridge to rest on. and the garage floor is a different level. But really? And his point is if you move 6 inches into the garage or 6 feet the cost isn't really going to change. So I take that as I can build a pantry into the garage. Ha.

He keeps telling me that his thoughts are just a reflection of my wants. His thought on the peninsula is that I wanted seating. Peninsula gives seating. Island not so much. Island makes it difficult in spacing walkways. Peninsula opens it up.

I wanted a walk-in pantry. This gives it too me. Why I can't utilize space in the garage I don't know besides cost. Granted he hasn't given me a number there. And I don't know where I'd put the door for a walk-in pantry within the garage.

I'm concerned about the shrinkage of the DR...so he tells me...by moving the doorways it will open it up. The butlers pantry will open up light into the kitchen and make the DR feel bigger. Add more light into the kitchen.

Is this a better option? I don't know. Is it what I want. I don't know. But I get so frustrated to finally find something I like, tweek it to get it where I want it and then nope. Can't do. It is an overwhelmingly aggravating process. Add the kid stuff into the mix and I am at my limit.

He seems to be deciding for you what you should want. Stop and think and don't get railroaded. You're paying him so you can have what you want. How presumptuous for him to tell you whether or not you want an island or a peninsula. Only we're allowed to do that! LOL. What do YOU want. I know it'd be a pain, but he is replaceable.

Yes. But why? Is he trying to do right by me? Or does he think his way is the only way? Granted the pantry idea was my idea originally - his idea incorporated the butler's pantry so that the pantry I came up with (the monstrous room of 5'x14x) didn't lose the supplies I stored in it. I'm just worried about losing the size of the DR. To have it go from 17x14 to 12x14 and not feel like it fits in the house.

I just want a new kitchen. That works. That flows. Where I won't have regrets. That makes a remodel worthwhile. Without breaking the bank.

Well, so what do you want? Peninsula and walk in pantry? Or island and cabinet pantries? Some combination of the two?

Is he someone who is really deciding everything based on what he feels in his heart is best for you? And if so, does he know you well enough to decide for you?

First of all,allergies aren't the end of the world. DD is allergic to just about every plant and animal, has asthma and is gluten intolerant. Is it fun? No, especially for her. Is it manageable, absolutely. She was a gymnast, plays field hockey and is heading off to college in the fall. It's all good.

There is NO way it should cost $5K to recess the fridge. I had the biggest scam artist of a GC and even he wouldn't' have charged that much. Get rid of this guy and get someone who can make Rhome's plan work for you. Period!

Thank you both! Allergies are doable, it is just the newness of it and trying to figure out the whole diet and grocery shopping. When it rains it pours. I just don't do well dealing with more than one mind boggling topic at a time. And we have an upper GI scheduled in the morning, a doc appt later this week, and an allergy/gi doc appt next week. Plus hubby is out of town.

I may be off on the $5k, but it sounded like $5k to recess it or the cost of the fridge would double just to recess it. Either way...really?

This GC is a home builder. Nice home builder. Million dollar home builder. So he has wonderful ideas, great vision, superior attention to detail, but I don't know if he is trying to make this into a showpiece or if he isn't used to working within the confines of a wall space. If he knows how small my budget is that he is just trying to keep me from going overboard.

Why he likes the pantry: He commented on resell (not thinking that right now) that the pantry/butlers pantry would be a big selling point. That anyone walking into the space wouldn't really notice how much smaller the DR was because there is nothing to compare it too.

I have a designer acquaintance who is part of our cooking group. She was here this spring and made a comment that making the DR smaller might detract that the current size lends to its beauty. Hmmm not too beautiful right now with the painted white plywood floors. But I don't have anything in there now, not a bunch of furniture or anything. And the wall where the pantry would go, is dark and seems to get lost in the room. Also the DR seems almost too big, that the corners get dark and just a lot of wide empty space....so I don't know why I worry so much. I guess it just seems a drastic change.

So I get conflicting statements and I'm just Jane Doe homeowner who hasn't had the pleasure of a kitchen remodel or any design experience. My degree from college was Geology. This interior space stuff is not my thing.

Yes, rhome, it comes down to what do I want. I want the walk in pantry. I thought I wanted an island. I thought putting the pantry into the garage would be a better use of space. But then where does the door go. So his plan of using existing space and budget concerns make it more realistic. I am not sold on the peninsula idea, but it seems to make more sense than the island. But peninsula seating ontop of table seating doesn't make much sense.

Any way I look at it, I need to change the fridge. Now the but. But if we do recess it I can recess that whole wall (because he said it wouldn't cost any more to do the whole wall than it would a 3 foot secion) and maybe make an island more user friendly. Then do the butler/walk-in.

Maybe I just need to sleep on it because I'm not making any decisions here.

I've been following your thread. I like to do that when Rhome is busy working a layout. ;)

Excuuuuuuuuuse me........$5K?????? That's ridiculous. I don't mean to be rude. It sounds to me like he really wants to build his kitchen, not yours.

I know it's hard to focus while you're dealing with kid issues, but try to sit down and think about what's really important to you in your new kitchen. Did you make a priority list before you started planning of must-haves for the new space? If not, make it now. Take the plan above that you love and check off the items on your priority list that it fulfills. Sometimes looking at the issues on paper and in words helps sort out the emotions. (I went through a similar situation recently. Re-examining my list, plus a solid night's sleep, helped tremendously.).

I'm not sure what kind of situation you're in with your GC. If you decide you want to go with Rhome's plan and not what your GC wants you to do, think seriously if he can build your dream without attitude or resistance. Perhaps you want to talk to another GC to get a fresh perspective on supposed limitations.

This is YOUR house, YOUR money, and YOUR dream. Don't let anyone talk you out of it.

Pep talk over......

ok...no sleep doesn't help. But I do know that I do NOT like the peninsula. As practical as it may be, it isn't what I want. Pantry - don't know. The wall into the DR where rhome has so kindly placed the glass cabs will need to go. That wall is a load bearing wall so I need more support. I can probably still have cabs there, but they may need to full height with a false top panel. But do I then want 20 feet or so of cabs? Not really.

Thanks breezygirl. Your pep talk made me think about the peninsula and why it would be there and why I don't want it there. Want outweighs anything else here. And yes the 5K is wrong. I'll need to double check my facts too. And all the hassle because I've picked a fridge I like. I'm sure I can find a different one that will work just as well.

So off to the hospital for gi testing and maybe I'll bring my graph paper. Or a pillow for a nap. Or paper for making that list of what I want, why and what I need.

thank you all!

Just because your GC builds beautiful million dollar homes doesn't mean he knows about design. We have a large beautiful beach house built by a well know builder in the area and it has several glaring design flaws. This is more common than not. A butlers pantry for a 12 x 14 ft DR is not a selling feature. Our DR is 20 x 13 with a 72 x 42 in. table that just fits. I can't have more than 8-10 guests for dinner and seat them comfortably. To make matters worse, his peninsula design gives you no table in the kitchen, so the ONLY place to eat is the small DR.

It looks like you need to stop and re-evaluate your priorities, again. You're still going round in cirlces and the priorities change every time a tweaked design is put forth. You had a wonderful peninsula design from last year that's much better than the one above. Have you looked at that one lately? Have you set a budget? All of the designs will be costly to execute. If a walk in pantry is your number one priority, you can incorporate it into Rhome's design. Simple replace the cabinet to the left of the refrigerator with a door to a pantry in the garage space. Then the fridge can easily be recessed into the pantry.

Or you could take another look at Malhgold's layout. Her kitchen is awesome. I recall it took a very long time for her to arrive at her final layout as she re-evaluated priorities to fit space and budget but she ended up with an amazing kitchen and your space is similar to hers (though your windows might need reconfiguring). I hope she doesn't mind me providing a link to a pic of her kitchen.

Here is a link that might be useful: Pic of Malhgold's kitchen

Yes, to what Cheri127 and Breezy have said. A builder doesn't usually design, and I have seen multi-million dollar homes with kitchens that are laughable in function.

I don't think the fridge is driving this layout. I know that Cheri and I have differing views on the fridge location, but I like it best where it was in the last layout, and it would work with that one or a shallower one. You could save the money to recess it, though. I'm not a fan of deep fridges, so would be glad to save the construction expense and spend a little more for a counter-depth style. I think it was on the appliance thread recently that I read about how misleading cubic footage is compared to actual usable space. Someone did a test with actual items to see how many would fit, and a fewer-cu-ft LiebHerr held more than a supposedly larger model by another manufacturer.

And as Cheri127 said, too, it'd be easy to add a walk-in pantry to this plan...either taking space out of the garage or out of the dining room.

Your glass cabs could be framed into a doorway for the dining room. A little different style, perhaps, but maybe cooler.

I completely understand why you're overwhelmed with the allergy issue right now. It's a lot to take in, a lot to do, and it seems so BIG at first. Don't try to do and decide too much at once. And don't let someone railroad you because you're too tired to think and are, at this point, willing to let someone remove part of the burden.

if the fridge and MW are moved toward the dinning room wall, you can have a "walk through" pantry on your way to laundry room. You can eliminate the second door (or keep the door open) if it would bother you to open two doors on your way to laundry room. This will hardy change the current layout, but you would need to be smart about pantry's door solution...

Sorry, Cosmocat. We cross posted. Nix on looking at the old peninsula kitchen. I have to agree with Rhome that the best option would be to use the money for a counter depth fridge rather than recessing a standard one. They really are wonderful. If the budget is tight, maybe you could delay doing anything with the DR built-ins for now. That can always be done in a few years if you still feel you need/want them.

I'm sorry your little one has to deal with such invasive tests. There are wonderful blogs and forums for all kinds of food allergies that take the guess work out of cooking and shopping for those who are new to it. I know what it's like to have a spouse who doesn't get it, too. After all these years, he still tries to open the windows in the spring and fall even though DD is sneezing and wheezing and can't go anywhere without a box of tissues! Maybe it would be best to put the kitchen design on the back burner for a week or so until you get to the bottom of this. I hope everything is ok.

Good news from the upper GI test. All is normal. Now off to the GI doc next week for a review of everything we've learned so far. So besides a sleepless night and that appt all is well here with my youngest.

Oh. And. Met a woman at the pool today through a mutual friend. She knows the contractor. She hates the contractor. Supposedly there are some lawsuits against him because of faulty building. I can't find any proof, but little things are adding up so my contractor hunt has started again. Great. Joy.

Now. The fridge I like is a french door with two drawers. One drawer can be used for snack food items, drinks, things like yogurt, cheese sticks, fruit, etc. I like it because the kids can get their stuff out of one drawer. So it really isn't that big a deal to find a different one.

I like rhome's plan still. The one with an island and the fridge on the garage wall. Leave everything the same except for the fridge space, the DR wall and a walk-in pantry in there somewhere.

The kids are making some egg free, dairy free, nut free, wheat free choc chip cookies. Yum...hmmmm. And while I sit down to munch on one, I'll play with my graph paper.

thank you all for your kindness, your thoughts on the process and the hit over the head with the obvious. I'll make my list of wants, needs and wouldn't it be cool if...then come up with something to critique. Getting close. Then I just need to find a contractor. ;-)

Good...You'll find one, show him your plan, then he'll build it. The way it's supposed to work, right? Best, best wishes. So glad the medical test went well. THAT'S what's important.

Good news! First, it's great to hear that the medical tests went well. It's frightening to think that something could be wrong with our children.

Second, I'm glad that you found out about potential problems with the builder now, rather than later. It sounds like, from your description, that you'll be better off without him anyway.

Get some sleep. Make your priority list. Work on your plan. THEN find a contractor.