I got nothin. That tops it. I can complain all I want. The funniest thing I heard from my ex this year was "well, some of us have to work for a living"

Excuse me? Some of us? As in.... you and ME? Except YOU get to go home and kick back, drink a beer with friends, whatever... while go to work all day, then I race around to pick up DD, take her to get snacks, take her to after school activities, wait for her, take her home, make dinner, clean her up, check homework, put to bed, good night story, etc....

But I guess his work is much, much harder than mine is. Poor guy. Maybe I should be sending him money!!!

But you know, I like my daughter and doing things for her and with her, so it's not a big deal. And, he's not that bad. He really does want to provide for his daughter, and money is not the issue. It's the attitude "I work so hard, boo hoo hoo". But combine the two????????

I'm sorry Ashley.

Here's another vote for your X!

I once complained to X how difficult it is at times to raise preteen and then teen and how much effort it takes in every sense. and it takes a lot of extra spendings that one does not plan for. My X said to that: "well if it is so hard then i would be more than happy to have DD full time and you visiting. I thought you wanted to have DD full time so i agreed and now you complain." oh oops sorry that i allowed myself to complain. ha.

It reminded me extra time why i got divorced. and really ladies think about it: that's why we are divorced. if our Xs would be that great we would still be married to them. remind yourself one extra time why we divorced them. right?

"and I sure as he!! wasn't the Virgin Mary"

LOL!
I cracked up at that.
Ashley, thank you for making me laugh - what a great birthday present.

"...really ladies think about it: that's why we are divorced. if our Xs would be that great we would still be married to them. remind yourself one extra time why we divorced them. right?"

so true. And Ceph, I cracked up over that too. That was really a great one Ashley!!

LOL! It's funny because I read my post again today (with a little less anger) and it's really funny how angry I was. I'm glad it made your day!

You're so right, FD. I am divorced for a reason and money played a big part of it (along with the cheating and violent arguements). He never trusted me with money even though I was (and still am) better with it than he is.

But, isn't it common for most NCPs to believe they would pay less if they had custody of the kid(s)?

X has no earthly idea what it costs to raise a child. Even when we were married, I paid for everything for DS and he paid the housepayment. But any bills or products specifically for DS were my responsibility to pay for. Since we had separate bank accounts, he never even saw the impact of daycare, medical costs, insurance, diapers, formula, and so on.

And I was thinking last Friday that, even if he did get custody in 3 years, he STILL would never know what those things cost because there will be no more daycare and diapers and formula. The expenses will be drastically different from what I had to pay for the past 10 years. So, I'm sure his perspective won't change, either.

Ashley, I think you are wrong!!!

"So, I'm sure his perspective won't change, either."

In three years, IF he were to get custody & the court ordered you to pay him $370 a month, his perspective will change... he'll almost certainly whine and cry that it isn't enough! The expenses change but I know teenagers are more expensive than babies.... and they can have an attitude, be rebellious and difficult. They want expensive things to compete with or fit in with their peers. haha he has NO idea!

well my X meant DD will live with him if it is so hard for me in terms of raising a kid (especially teenage girl), not in terms of how much it costs. Issue with my X was almost never about money. Is that he is not considered of what others feel. he says what he wants and does what he wants. he refuses to take in consideration other people's feelings. He does not care what impact his words or actions have on other people. It is useless to ever share anything wiht him.

Let's say you tell him you got robbed, his reply: why didn't you lock the door.

My job does not pay me enough. why don't you get another job.

I am sick. why didn't you get a treatment. etc

no point to ever share. same with DD. It is hard to raise a teenager, DD does not listen. well then send her to me. see the point? no empathy, no compassion. well that's why i divorced him. I couldn't tolerate this.

agree with imamommy, teenagers are way more expensive that babies. daycare and diapers cannot even compare to what teenagers need. clothes, phone, school stuff. even the least demanding teenagers cost a lot of money. and add college cost to it. ouch. In 10 years your son will cost way way more than he does now.

Ima - you know....you're right! Things are never going to be fair for him. I'm always getting more than I should and I've always gotten things better than him, even though that is not the reality at all.

Can you believe that he even told the officer lady that I have a pool and it's not fair??? What in the heck does that have to do with his income? And anyway, it's not MY pool; it's FDH's pool. The house isn't mine. The pool isn't mine. We pay rent to FDH. X lives in an apartment with 3 pools. Is that not the same thing?

When DH was asking BM to pay the $400 in past due medical copays she owes him (it's more now), she told him that 'unlike you and your wife, we are not driving around in new cars & a motorcycle!' lol, what does THAT have to do with what she owes? I don't know! He told her 'we can drive whatever WE want because WE WORK!

I guess what they perceive is that if we are better off than they are, they shouldn't have to contribute to their own children? (nevermind that they are supposed to be responsible for their own kids, not the stepparent or anyone else) If there is one thing I can't stand more than anything, is someone that is doing little or nothing (or is being irresponsible in their life)... complaining about not having anything to someone that is working harder, managing better than they are or being responsible. That's my #1 pet peeve.

I think its really common that men have NO idea what it really costs to take care of a child.

My ex is self employed, and its amazing how much less he managed to put on the books after he started having to pay me child support. THe exact same business made 50 percent less the first year he started paying and then another fifty percent less the next year. On the books, he now makes 75 percent less than he did for the many years we were married. A lot of his business is conducted in cash.

Unfortunately, there isnt a lot that can be done about it. Court is expensive, so the need to argue for more has to be balanced against how much the legal fees will be to do so. On top of that, unless I can PROVE he is hiding money, I still wont get a decent amount. It cost me 10k just to get the first order established, at a time when I had five kids to feed, clothe, house and school. He was paying me nothing, and fought to keep it that way. If it hadnt been for the support of his own family through that time, I dont think we would have made it. Now, of course, ex and his family are estranged because they dared to help me out after I left him.

The first year that I actually got support, for four children ( one had aged out before the case got heard), I got less than five thousand dollars in support. That same year, the ex donated 25k to his church. I guess God needs his money but his children do not.

Sometimes with these guys, I think its about punishing the ex wife for leaving, and not caring about hurting kids in the process. Revenge is what fuels it, and animosity.

For the majority of women that I know, they consider their income to be for them and the kids, with the kids coming first. For the majority of men I know, its them first, with the kids in second place. They simply do not factor in the real expenses of kids, since most of the time they do not do the actual raising of, and shopping for,the children.

I am fortunate in that my husband makes a very good living, so we arent hurting for anything, but certainly the pittance my ex sends for child support is not even enough to pay for my son's portion of the groceries. ANd he bitterly complains even about the pittance.

My 20 year old son and I were talking last night. He has to go in for hernia surgery, his second time in two years. He was reminding me how, last time he was in for hernia surgery, his father ( my ex) came to visit him in the hospital. Son knew he was coming so he asked his dad to pick him up a Subway, and a French Vanilla coffee on the way. His dad refused because....thats what all the child support he sends mom is for.

Geezuz. Clueless. ANd he wonders why none of his adult kids want anything to do with him.

Ashleys X can dethrown my ex who certainly earned father of the year in 2007. I don't want to hijack your post, just share with you my similar experience... When I was 8 months pregnant with my son, his dad quit his job because they wouldn't give him e/o weekend off for his visitation with his then 3 yr old daughter. He didn't work for the next three years. He was a SAHD to our son..Really he had a 3yr vacation to smoke pot and play video games--After 3 years I'd had enough and left. He claimed he couldn't afford to stay and would have to move cross country to live with his parents and of course... I was the worst person in the world for taking his son away from him. So, figuring I'd been supporting us all for 3 years anyway I didn't need him to pay child support. I took the state minimum $25 mo told him to get a job, get on his feet here, and we could reevaluate in 2 years. For 3 years all I heard was how poor he was, how he couldn't afford anything when I took him back to court I found in 2006 he made $47,000 And paid $300 in support-for the whole year! All the while sending my son home in rags that were too small and keeping the clothes he arrived in to refresh his wardrobe there.
Sorry, I'm a little off track here..when it came time for modification he gave the first judge a sob story about how he didn't have time to fill out any of the paperwork he'd gotten. He had the same 20 days I did but whatever the judge gave him an extension-but my ex wasn't available to come to court one month later- because he would be on vacation with the kids out of state so the judge gave him two months :) I was hot, but to pacify me the judge ordered he pay $100 for each of those months. DCS distributed it to his daughter-whatever. So 2 months later we show up in court again the judge orders him to pay around $500 and he starts running his mouth about his other children he pays support for....His 18 year old son who he no longers owes support to, and the daughter that he pays $56 month for!!!The judge didn't find that any reason to discount his support to this child so he started complaining about childcare telling the judge that he wants receipts for my daycare expenses because I leave our son with my then 12 yo daughter totally implying that I'm a bad mom. WHAT AN IDIOT!!! Child support and Daycare are two seperate issues here. In the three years we were separated I never asked him for a dime for our son for anything, not daycare, a pair of shoes, not a cough drop and for him to try to smear me infront of a judge got me so angry when the judge ordered $465 for support the state's attorney recommended an incremental increase so I'd get 1/2 for 3 months before I got a full month and I said NO and asked the judge to say NO-she did, then she ordered he pay that full amount back to the day he didn't have his paperwork ready. Then I went home and gathered all my daycare receipts and mailed them in for my 58% reimbursement, and recently DS had an ear infection requiring drops that were not covered by insurance- the cost $73. You bet I sent that receipt to DCS too.

Sometimes I feel a little guilty about what I get from him now -- then I remember how hard it was for me all that time on my own, that our son wasn't worth 1% of his 2006 income and I think of him rambling on in court and I feel just fine. And my X has not once since then whined about being poor.

I know it sucks to do with less for now, especially in these hard times and I'm sorry. Hopefully in a couple years he'll have a better job and you can modify and he will pay more-in my state it costs more to raise a 12yr. and support is greater.

Mom_of_2.5 - Your story is almost exactly like mine!

You know what's so funny? In the papers, X has overnight visitation on Wednesdays. All that time he was out of work and he not once picked up DS on a Wednesday. Now who wants to complain they don't see their kid enough?

FD - I know the exact kind of person you are talking about! I was date-raped when I was 15. It was very traumatic for me but mostly because I told no one. Well I had a boyfriend that I opened up to about it once and he said to me "There's always something you can do". What???? I was all of 98lbs. and a 15 y/o kid! When he took me out to the middle of a field and said, basically, put out or get out, I did all I could! He was stronger than me! I should've never told him about it. I should've known I'd never get any compassion. I opened up and told him something that I had never told anyone and all I got was that I just didn't do enough. I haven't told anyone since then. I'm sure these types of people are why rape victims rarely come forward. It always ends up being the victim's fault "you were asking for it by the way you dressed" and blah blah blah.

I don't blame you for leaving! I would have, too, in a heartbeat. And I did break up with that boyfriend. Unfortunately I moved on to the gem I married (yeah....right).

Kathline - he couldn't fork out $5 at Subway for his kid who just had surgery???? Wow! Talk about an a**hole! But, you're right. Not a lot can be done about it.

Texas Family Code states: Sec. 154.066. INTENTIONAL UNEMPLOYMENT OR UNDEREMPLOYMENT. If the actual income of the obligor is significantly less than what the obligor could earn because of intentional unemployment or underemployment, the court may apply the support guidelines to the earning potential of the obligor.

Basically that means that I could've NOT agreed to the lessening of the CS because he is "intentionally underemployed". But what would I have to go through to get that? More time off work to go to court, more hostilities between he and I that DS would be part of, and I may or may not get the judgement in my favor. No thanks......not really all that worth it.

Ashley that is soo funny --my ex is also entiltled to every Tuesday night and every Friday for a few hours if it's not his weekend--has never taken advantage of it. More for time me :)

Basically that means that I could've NOT agreed to the lessening of the CS because he is "intentionally underemployed". But what would I have to go through to get that? More time off work to go to court, more hostilities between he and I that DS would be part of, and I may or may not get the judgement in my favor. No thanks......not really all that worth it.

Thats it exactly, Ashley. There is a point where its just not worth it. Your son's father thinks he is getting away with something, but in the long run, your son will see what you do, and what his dad does, and it will cost your ex a lot more than money.

Thanks, Kathline! My DS knows what is real and what's not. But that doesn't stop him from totally defending his dad even when he's not being attacked.

Update: So remember the donation center thing from above? Well, turns out that the next day, they went to the movies and saw Bolt. Hmmmm.......I thought he didn't have money for gifts???? But they had money for the movies. Oh well.... Anyway, when I picked DS up on Friday, he showed me his Christmas gifts. He got a bunch of University of Texas clothes. I wonder if X got those at the donation center???? I would think that it would be very hard to find DS's exact size at the donation center.

You know.....I'm not mad about that. Really, it makes me happy that DS had a good Christmas with his dad. What makes me mad is that he didn't even have the decency to wait 24 hours after spouting off this crap to the AG officer and me to start browing the money he has. After all the things he said to that lady, he starts right back flaunting his money again. Showing me how he always gets away with whatever he wants.

By the time my husband's X divorced him for another man, she had cheated on and abused him to point where was pretty much a basketcase--alcoholic and suicidal to the point where he came pretty close to suceeding.

After he met me, he went to rehab, and almost miraculously, turned his life around. I can't stand his X, but where it came to his child support obligations towards her, I made sure that paying her back every cent in arrearment took top priority. She never had to take him back for an increase, because as his income increased, we both agreed that voluntarily increasing his payments on his own was the right thing to do.

No, I'm not a wonderful, generous person, and it wasn't even for the sake of his children. He's an alcoholic and making his parental obligation to contribute financially to his children's support is the very thing that gave his life purpose, got him up in the morning to go to work, and helped him maintain his sobriety--which he has for 25 years now.

While his kids were growing up, he got laid off a few times too, but I never agreed that let him off the hook to lower his payments--I just didn't want him to mope around the house feeling sorry for himself, so that was the incentive he needed that compelled him to get off his butt and find another job! And everytime, he found an even better one too!

I viewed his child support payments as an investment in our marital values, and in my husband, because the more he contributed towards his children, the better he felt about himself, so the harder he worked--and the more he earned! His kids are grown now, and we still are helping them out because we really have the means to do so now, more than ever.

I can't see where any wife wouldn't want her husband to do the same. If you foster a desire to wriggle his way out of supporting his children instead, what you're really doing is training him to believe that being dishonest, deceitful, and not honoring his obligations is OK. And if you help teach him think it's OK to do that to others, you run the risk that one day, he just might decide it's also OK to do the same with you.

Disengaging - you are so right! And congratulations on finding a way to reach your husband!

I feel the same way. If we are doing everything "right" by the law and the papers, we have nothing to be afraid of. No one can touch us. But the second we start lying, manipulating and scheming like our Xs and their SOs do, we have to start looking over our shoulders.

I don't want to live like that. I go to sleep at night knowing that I have done the right thing. I think that's why my X and FDH's X look so old now. Because their lies are keeping them up at night wondering when they are going to get caught and what their next lie will be.