Unfortunately, preteens, teenagers, and young adults are rarely if ever interested in developing a loving relationship with a stepparent. If you get back together with your husband, I think the resentment of your 12 year old will remain no matter what you say or do. I think the best that you can hope for is mutual respect between the two of them. Your 12 year old should respect and be courteous to ANY adult, and that includes one living in your home. Don't create unrealistic expectations of the relationship between your daughter and your husband. Understand that the best that can come from the situation is for your daughter to tolerate his existence in the home.

Tlescak - Thanks for your response. The picture you paint is rather bleak. Is 'tolerance' good enough? I'm not trying to downplay how bad it was while he was here, hell, if it wasn't bad I wouldn't have made him move out! I mean, it was never abusive, there was just so much tension you couldn't breathe. But our relationship was better than good for 3 years, including the kids ... and I'm afraid to throw it all away for 1 bad year, especially with all that we had to try to overcome. I don't feel that would be the right thing to do if there's a chance of making it right. I guess my biggest question is: how much weight should I give my 12 year old's opinion?

> He's Canadian, and came here to Missouri to be with me and my kids.

Stupid questions: 1) How often did you and your daughter see him face to face before you got married? 2) Where is he living now? Where I'm going with these are: if you didn't know him in a face-to-face way all that well beforehand, he could have been giving you his vacation personality when he did see you, or you could have been reading things into his correspondence that just weren't there, and the guy you actually lived with the past year *was* the real him. If he's not living close now, then you could be repeating the cycle. Dunno.

> We separated a couple of months ago, and we're now talking about trying to make it work (with changes and counseling)

In general, I'd say 3 months is not a heck of a lot of time for people to change. Not saying it doesn't happen, but in my own experience, I needed 2-10 years plus a bunch of bad things happening to me in the intervening time to change into somebody quasi-likeable.

> how much weight should I give my 12 year old's opinion

Well, you're the parent, so what you say goes at the end of the day. But if you go ahead and try to patch things up, you're buying in to strife with your daughter. It almost sounds like you've already decided to take him back -- because a) you're describing couselling and not wanting to throw 4 years away and b) you *didn't* ask us "should I take him back". So your real question sounds like it might be "How do I minimize the strife that's going to come out of this?"

What are your daughter's specific objections to the guy? What are your husband's specific objections to her? There's a bunch of things you can do to manage anger that you've prob already convered in family counselling. Is her dad in the picture? Does she want her BD in the picture? Has your daughter taken part in the couselling? If not, she should.

Does your daughter have anybody to compare him to? Maybe he's the salt of the earth, but because she's lived without a second source of authority for a long time, she automatically rebels against it.

> I think the best that you can hope for is mutual respect between the two of them.

This sounds like good advice, at least at the start. Basically, you have to accept that your husband and your daughter have dug themselves behavior ruts with each other, and that all their hairtriggers are set to 'fume'. They need to both be able to stand back from situations and not get suckered into arguments, and not to play head games with each other.

My best advice would be, try to give your daughter a sense of control, of safety, of security. People get very nervous during transition periods in general.

Maybe the best thing to do is ask yourself -- if I've set myself a time deadline for things to happen in, is there any real reason for the deadline, or did I just pull it out of my hat? A bit off the point -- my grandfather was 28 or thereabouts when he met my grandmother who was 18 or thereabouts. He asked he father if it was ok to marry her, and the father said, come back to me in a year. If the feeling was real, a year doesn't really mean anything. If it was just a passing thing, a year can tell you a lot. Both from the easing-transition-anxiety point of view, and from the changing-behaviors-for-real point of view. Sort of thing.

Anyway. My grandfather isn't your husband, so I'm just rambling.

JoeTypist - Thanks for your letter. Let me address your questions in order if I can.

He spent probably a total of a year with us 24/7. Dozens of visits, and most of the summer (he was in college and had summer breaks). At first (the first year) there wasn't a romance and he was my best friend and someone that the kids enjoyed being around as well. Romance came, as I said, in the second year of our relationship. The third year we became engaged and were engaged for a year before we got married.

He's living about 20 miles away from us right now.

I hadn't made a decision yet. We're talking about starting counseling (my husband and I - then all of us together) and trying to work it out. I didn't sit my 12 year old down and talk to her about this. She came to me and asked ... so I was honest with her. I had no intention of bringing it up until I had a better idea where I sat with it.

My daughter's specific complaints are that he didn't have a lot of patience with them, that he acted at times like he didn't want them around and that he upset me.

My husband really doesn't have any complaints about my daughter besides she runs hot/cold and it doesn't seem like he can win. The classic "damned if you do - damned if you don't" scenario. If he leaves her alone - he doesn't care - if he does something nice for her - he's sucking up.

Yes, my ex-husband is very much in the picture, remarried with a new baby. He's involved with the kids and he and I are much better friends than we were spouses. There's no strife there.

My daughter is very opinionated, very out-spoken, at times very mouthy. She's also my drama-queen and always has been. Nobody can exaggerate or milk a story for hours the way she can! She's also ADD and been on medication for 6 years. I'm not saying this as derogatory, it's just that I know my daughter and I know how she can be when she gets going. I've been through it before with my ex, my parents, my oldest daughter ... my 12 year old has always viewed herself as being slighted (maybe it's the middle child syndrome, I don't know).

I'm not disregarding my daughter's concerns, not at all. I just don't think it's the right thing to let my decision be based on her feelings only. She's pre-adolescent, she's very moody, she has a different best friend everyday, she has a different crush every week. Normal 12 year old.

It devastated me when we were talking, but I'm also afraid to say instantly, "Well my 12 year old says she doesn't want me to, so I won't". What kind of message is THAT sending?

> If he leaves her alone - he doesn't care - if he does something nice for her - he's sucking up.

When your husband didn't pay attention to her, did he give his reasons? Maybe spelling out the logical reasons for everybody's actions would get rid of the imaginary ones like 'not caring'. As far as sucking up....maybe your husband should offer, but not force. "If you'd like [say] me to help you with your Shakespeare assignment, let me know."

> My daughter is very opinionated, very out-spoken, at times very mouthy. She's also my drama-queen and always has been.

Yikes. Sounds very much like my oldest SS. I wasn't too good with the anger management myself; I usually resorted to the silent treatment. Which in turn didn't make my partner very happy with me because she viewed it as me dropping responsibility for dealing with problems solely on her. (I viewed it twofold -- I can only control myself, and by gum, I'm not going to set myself up for abuse, and secondly, man, I'm really angry here, and if I talk to you right now, that's only going to get worse.)

My SS changed (I've been told) quite drastically after he spent 4 months living with his dad in the rough parts of SF and in Guatemala, and had some other sorts of family experience.

> Dozens of visits, and most of the summer (he was in college and had summer breaks).

How old is he? How about maturity wise? You think he was ready for instant family?

> Yes, my ex-husband...There's no strife there.

What I meant was, is your daughter causing probs because she doesn't want anyone to replace dad? Maybe your new husband could talk to your ex and see if he has any advice re: your daughter? Maybe your ex could speak to your daughter casual-like about the whole thing. Since you're on friendly terms maybe the adults can pool their resources.

> My daughter's specific complaints are that he didn't have a lot of patience with them

I think my basic prob with my SS was that I wasn't around for his growing-up, therefore I didn't have the history of knowing where he was developmentally, therefore I was relating to him as an adult/acquaintance/housemate instead of as a 12 year old. I wasn't gauging my expectations to what was appropriate to his age. This sound like your husband?

Might be of use for the 2 of them to exchange short: "If you do this, it will tick me off to no end" lists. So that folks know ahead of time what to expect from the other person. And it will let her know that what she does has real consequences.

But I guess the short of it is, since your prob was basically my prob, and I handled it poorly, I don't have anything really useful for you, other than hope everything works out.

When my husband steered clear, it was usually because he felt it was what my daughter wanted, that she wasn't receptive (real or imagined on my husband's part, probably 50/50). When he did something nice, it was never forced on her: he stopped at Wal-mart and saw a red phone he thought she'd like, so he got it and installed it in her room, etc. and this past weekend she was sick with a sore throat and he brought her cough drops, lozenges, etc. ... things like that.

Silent treatment ... that's exactly what he did! Stomped (he said he didn't 'stomp' ... so I guess he walked VERY HEAVILY) around the house. I always felt I was stuck in the middle: he'd come to me with every little thing the kids did because he didn't feel the kids were ready for him to discipline them, and then the kids would run to me about him. Of course, nothing I said was right either ... never please any of them!

My husband is 42. He had a degree, but went back at 38 for computer programming. Yes, he has some maturity issues. He has 2 children, a 17 year old boy who, as much as I love him is very immature for his age ... and a 12 year old girl with Down's syndrome. He's never had to deal with "normal" kid issues, especially with girls (which is an entirely differnt species!). His boy has never rebelled, never talked back, never been in trouble, with the exception of occasional low grades, and my kids have the "normal kid problems" in SPADES!

My daughter doesn't have any problems with step-parents, as such. She's had a step-mom since a month after my ex and I divorced. Plus, even as my daughter said herself last night ... she's a "momma's girl". My ex isn't a good communicator, he really doesn't know how to deal with problems except to yell and argue.

Yes, I think you're right there. My husband is used to his son, who honestly is emotionally around 12 or 13 and a daughter who will mentally never be over 5 or 6. He's not used to this pre-adolescent stuff and doesn't handle a lot of situations well.

Sounds like there is a lot of adjusting that needed to be done and still needs to happen. Things don't come together overnight. Rarely there are families that come together with no problems and disagreements. You have to talk to everyone involoved and try to see where the problems are and how/if they can be fixed. Also understand your daughter is 12, and well this may only be the beginning.

That being said...understand that you're daughter may not be all that bad in her thinking. From the time was 13 until 20 (7 years) my father was with the same woman. There were many fights and problems and eventually I just quit seeing my father and really having a relationship with him all together. Know why this all happened? I saw how this woman treated him and I hated it. He was always wrong and stupid and she was always right and her kids were always perfect even when they were really bad. My brother and I were outsiders and treated like we were horrible kids when we were VERY good compared to this woman's family and the other teens in it. My father finally left her two years ago and just now realized what type of a woman she is. That she's troubled and he was really miserable with her but didn't see that then...I did see it. We've patched up our relationship and things are much better now. He's with a woman who loves him for him and wants my brother, my son, my fiance' and I to be part of the family. She's also accepted my grandparents, aunts, uncles and cousins...and done more in 3 months than the other woman did in 7 years to be part of our family. Maybe your daughter sees something you don't because you're so in love that you're blind to it? It's not all that crazy for a 12 year old to see thorugh things. People think they're little and too young but you'd be surprised at what kids can learn. It's just a possibility as to why you're daughter's fighting you so much about this man. There of course, can be many other issues. I just read what you said in response to Joe's post and you mentioned why your daughter said she doesn't like this man and thought of myself.

Good luck to you.

~Leslie~

Leslie - Your first paragraph was pretty much how I've been thinking.

As to the rest, it's definitely food for thought. Please understand, he has never really treated me badly and my kids didn't see us argue. We didn't really fight. We isolated ourselves - he with his work and me with my kids. For 2 people who were some of the best communicators I'd ever seen ... we stopped talking.

The 'good kid' comment about my husband's son wasn't solely based on what my husband's said, but what I've witnessed myself in the past 4 years. He's lived a very sheltered life, and while I'm not saying that's all bad ... it's not really preparing him for the real world.

I know that kids can have a sharp sense of a person's personality, etc. But the problem wasn't there for year 1-3 ... only after we got married. My kids also don't get alot of help from my parents. The kids can do no wrong as far as they are concerned and if the kids go to my mom or dad with a complaint about my husband (and they have) ... then he is the devil incarnate. So that, coupled with some personality conflicts of their own with my husband ... means that they will probably give me all kinds of crap if I decide to try to make my marriage work. God, I'm 36 years old and I feel like I'm 17!

I wouldn't let him back in until he had been in counseling for a year to see if it was working. He fooled you once before you married affectively concealing his true character. What makes you think you won't be blinded again by your "love" and hurt your kids further. If you had a long distance relationship, I could see how it could have been misleading. Your love for your husband is admirable, but your first priority here is your children's well being. Emotional well being is just as vital as physical (if not more so). Perhaps your children need to get some counseling as well to teach them coping skills and proper responses when an adult is behaving inappropriately. It might empower them to know how to handle his personality.

If your husband would have treated your kids this way from the beginning, would you still be with him? My guess is probably not. Your daughter's feelings are justified. This man was disrespectful to her. A few cough drops and a phone do not make up for being ignored. If he was so overwhelmed for a whole year about moving and starting a new job, maybe he has trouble with change and should definitly be in counseling more than 3 months. IF you talk to any counsler 3 months is really not even long enough to pinpoint the problem much less fix it. What happens if he moves back in and does the same thing again? Will you give him another chance or will that be it? You should prepare yourself for the chance that he may just be a horse's rear. I can see if he had really made an effort in changing in that year? Did he or was his behavior ignored? Imagine you are your daughter and this man did this to you. Put yourself in her shoes. Forget your feelings for him for a moment and ask yourself is hurting your daughter worth it. If he is willing to put in more time and stay away until the counseler says he is ready then maybe start bringing him around again, but 3 months is just not long enough.

Regarding your statement:

"My husband really doesn't have any complaints about my daughter besides she runs hot/cold and it doesn't seem like he can win. The classic "damned if you do - damned if you don't" scenario. If he leaves her alone - he doesn't care - if he does something nice for her - he's sucking up. "

Am I the only one that sees a problem here? Let's think about your daugher for a minute, since everyone else is focusing on your husband, because I believe that the problem lies with BOTH OF THEM!

Realistically, most kids are fine when a parent has a "friend", but when they get married and move in, reality sets in. Oh dear, there go my (irrational) hopes and dreams of Mom and Dad ever getting back together, and it's this person's fault! I'm sure things were just peachy when he visited for the summer or other visits -- your daughter knew he was going home, and he, too was on his best behavior.

OK -- back to your daughter. Tell me about your relationship with her before you got married. Was she the queen of the roost? Did you give her everything she wanted? Is she used to having your undivided attention?

Here is a theory to ponder. Suppose, just suppose, that she wanted you back with no interference from a pesky husband. How would she go about doing that? Hmmm ... make life hell for him and complain to Mommy and Grandma about how horrible he is! So, is that what she's doing? (And remember, I'm not saying he's blameless, either).

So, again, I think the problem is with both. I think he needs to act a bit more mature and she, perhaps, could stand showing a little more respect for adults.

That's my two cents.

Mom_2_4 - Thank you. Yes, I see what you're saying and yes, I agree with it to a large extent.

No, my 12 year old wasn't the queen of the roost or the center of attention. My 17 year old got pregnant when she was 15 and she was the focal point, then my grand-daughter was (the 'father' was never involved and I had legal guardianship).

My 12 year old has always been starved for attention. Trust me, I've tried everything I know (day trips just for us, time alone to talk, sitting and listening to EVERYTHING about her day at school, etc.) to help the situation ... but it's never enough. My family (her grandparents, her dad and stepmom, cousins, aunts and uncles) have all tried to help also. She's been like this since she was a toddler. I've attributed it to being the 'middle child' and also being ADD. It also might just be part of her personality to crave attention.

My 12 year old has always seen herself as slighted when it came to attention, no matter how much attention she's getting. She has always done the 'if she (her sister) wanted to do that, you'd let her' 'she never gets in trouble for this or that'. It's always been an issue with her and I know that.

Yes, when I talked to her she actually said, 'Mom, haven't we been happy? You've spent more time with us and it will change if he comes back'. I made sure that I spent alot of time with my kids. No, that wasn't my only focus from the time they got home from school until bedtime ... but they did get time with me, I made sure of it because I didn't want this exact situation to arise.

In an earlier post, I asked how much weight I should put on her opinion, and I didn't mean that I didn't and wouldn't take her feelings into account on this ... but I also have to take into account that she's 12! Her friend's change from week to week, her tastes, likes and dislikes change constantly and I'm not saying that derogatorily. I'm just saying that she's 12. I've always been a firm believer that girls between 11 and 18 are just schizo, hormones and emotions going nuts on them. I know this ... I was one.

I agree completely that my husband has immaturity issues. I have been completely straight with him (hurtful or not) about this and exactly what the issues are and that they definitely need to be worked on and worked through with counseling and hard work. I also know my daughter and keep that in mind when I think about this situation.

I'm not sitting here focusing on what would make her alone happy, or what would make him alone happy. I want to do what's RIGHT, what's best for everyone and what will make everyone happy in the long run.

I think that once we have children ... their well being comes before our happiness and love life. They will be with you for a very short wile and you will have the rest of your life for romancing. Just my opinion

Rosie, I'm not saying that I put my happiness or my love life BEFORE my children. If I decide this isn't the best for ALL of us ... then I wouldn't do it. But your tone is that the children should be able to tell you how to live your life, instead of taking their feelings into account and making your decisions based on the big picture. I'm sorry, I don't buy into that.

I think mom_2_4 put a good spin on things.

> My 12 year old has always been starved for attention. Trust me, I've tried everything I know (day trips just for us, time alone to talk, sitting and listening to EVERYTHING about her day at school, etc.) to help the situation ...

Well, actually....this sounds like she's been playing you. By the above statement, do you mean you've been equalling out time between her and your other kids? Or do you mean giving her special attention? If the latter, well, it sounds like she's been milking your guilt for all it's worth with a big game of 'woe is me'.

Mind you, that's a lot of expansion from just one sentence, so take it with a grain of salt.

If I'm not identifying this too much with myself, seems like they've set themselves up a cool little cycle:

1) husband does something nice for child;
2) child does something husband interprets as throwing it in his face (which may or may not be the case);
3) husband overreacts and gives child silent treatment or yells;
4) child suddenly can't take consequences of actions (which may or may not be warranted) (see ref milking attention) and complains;
5) either because he bends to complaints, or because he feels sorry, or because he thinks it the right thing to do, husband goes back to point 1 -- but is much more wary and touchy. Cycle begins anew.

So...if there's nothing really wrong with the guy (which may or may not be the case; I'm still a little doubtful on the whole distance-relationship thing, also based on personal exp) and you decide to stay with him, the daughter has to learn that if she plays her games, people won't want to do things with her, and the husband needs to stop overreacting -- or more to the point, needs to learn how to judge appropriate disciplines while at the same time still offering to become involved in her life when the punishment is over.

That last bit is the hard one, because it's caught up in ego and face saving, and in the built-in unsure feelings that step parents have in their relationships with the children, and in striving to a parental ideal, and just plain experience with it, and all sorts of psych shenanigans.

If your husband is a tech, presenting this sort of thing to him might be more useful in counseling than just concentrating on amorphous feelings. Kind of a behavior algorythm -- tell him he's got to break the infinite recursion loop.

Joe, sounds like you're in the Tech world as well. My husband is an AS400 Programmer.
No, I haven't been singling her out for extra attention, I try to do that with all of my kids - 1 on 1 time. Let's just say that I've become anal about making sure that she gets every second that her brother and sister gets, but she WILL notice it and make it into 'you spend more time with him or her'.

I'm not saying that she hasn't played headgames, because she has. Even as far back as my ex and myself. It wasn't the 'I want you and dad to get back together', it was pitting us against each other ... and when my ex and I were going through that phase of anger, hatred, blame ... it wasn't hard to do at all. Thank God we worked past it, have good communication and now she can't do it.

The cycle you stated sounds familiar in a lot of ways. Brandym made the comment that "A few cough drops and a phone do not make up for being ignored". If that was all he did, I would agree ... or if the only thing he did was ignore her, I would agree. But that's not the case. He did try .. offered help with homework, tried to talk to her about school and friends, went to all of her activites, offered to drive her to her friend's constantly or go pick them up, etc.

I'm not saying that he didn't over-react with situations or that he handled his frustration appropriately. I'm not excusing what he did, period. Kids are going to say things unthinkingly that can be hurtful, especially when they are teenagers and he was WAYYYYYYYYYYYY too sensitive about those types of issues ... but is that really a good reason to throw it all away and say screw it? Or should we try to help both of them work out those issues with counseling?

> is that really a good reason to throw it all away and say screw it? Or should we try to help both of them work out those issues with counseling?

Those are the questions of the day, and need to be answered by all 3 folks involved along with a couple of other items:

* Do you have your husband's buy in for continuing your marriage?
* If you decide to get divorced, what are your expectations that your daughter will act any differently around anyone else?
* Does your daughter really understand what she'd be losing if he leaves? In terms of time loss with you if you have to concentrate on doing the things he had been doing for her?

What do your other kids think of the guy?

I think the hardest decision to stay/leave is going to be your husband's because he's setting himself up again for poop-with-no-reward. What *you* have to evaluate is whether his decision to stay is a real one or not -- if he lacks maturity, and is looking for maturity from yourself, he may say yep to the counseling but then not really change, to avoid looking like the bad guy and/or to please you as the parent figure. Then purposefully shooting himself in the foot so he can have the 'I tried counseling but it's just not working out' face saving out.

On the social engineering side of the fence, the more he becomes involved with the child's life, the more indispensable he makes himself to her, and the more mileage he can get out of silent treatments and such. Refusing to do things with her lacks 'oomph' if you never do anything in the first place, or if the silent treatments are going on all the time.

Oh yes, he brought up the subject and opened the discussion about trying again. He also brought up counseling before I had a chance (although I was already thinking about it). So I can definitely say yes, he's on board with this.

No, I don't see her acting any differently with anyone else I would care about. I think she'd have the same reactions no matter what.

My 17 year old no longer lives with me, and my son thinks the world of my husband.

As far as realizing all she might lose with him not in her life, probably not. Even though we've talked about it, I think it's hard for a 12 year old to realize the reality of it.

As I said, my husband approached me about the possibility of working it out. Although a part of me is willing and wants to try, I knew I had to be honest with the problems I saw that he needed to work on and I know that some of them were hurtful. It wasn't my intent to hurt him, but at the same time it's not going to do any good to hold back now. I felt I needed to lay it out on the table and let the cards fall where they may and asked him to do the same.

Lisa,
I say to give it a try. It seems that's what you want to do and couseling sounds like a good way to go. Give this man another chance and see how things go. Do you think maybe he changed so much just because he had so many changes in his life to get used to? The biggest stress factors are moving, getting married and changing jobs and I'm sure adding a family to the picture would be one, too. That's a lot for a person to take all at once. It's easy to talk about it and plan it but it's different once you actually do it. I think you're feeling that this man will be okay and can be like he was before and you won't be happy until you see if that's thr truth. Give it a shot. It doesn't sound like this man did anything truly horrible to you or your children. And honestly, I just read the other day how women tend to talk when they have problems and men go into their "cave" and try to deal on their own. It's so true! I've had similar problems in my relationship of 5 years because he wouldn't talk and tell me there was a problem until he was ready to blow up from everything. So maybe that's what your husband did? Your daughter will either settle or fight you and honestly...she'd probably do it whether it was him or any other man, even one who gave her everything she's ever wanted. Good luck to you.

~Leslie~

Leslie - thanks. Yes, I guess I do believe that leaving his home, family, friends, kids and homeland ... plus starting a new high-pressure job, getting married and moving into a new house with a new family added to, if not caused the majority of the changes with him.

Maybe I'm naive, but I just have a hard time believing that he lived a lie around me for 3 years prior to getting married. I mean, it's not that I don't believe I could be fooled by someone ... I definitely have been in the past. I don't think our long-distant relationship is an issue either. BECAUSE we were so far away and talked on the phone or the computer ... we had to learn to communicate and share our thoughts.

As far as clamming up, he started to do that some after we started to have problems. He's hates confrontations and has a tendency to internalize it rather than argue. Path of least resistance, you know. I have to admit, I'm the same in alot of ways ... so that just added to the problems and eventually we'd blow.

I guess I just believe that if I don't try ... I'll always wonder if it would've worked and if I wasn't premature in ending it.

I think you should give it another shot. Your husband should definitely try not to overreact to your daughter's antics. He needs to know that it's not personal; she's always been this way. And your daughter ... well, she needs to realize that the universe does not center around her whims. She needs to learn to appreciate things that people do to for her, and it sounds like your husband has definitely tried. He can't give up on her, though, if it's going to work. Things like the phone and cough drops SHOULD be saying to her "hey, isn't that cool ... he was thinking of me and did this nice thing that he didn't have to do, that nobody asked him to do ... he did it just BECAUSE he cares" ... and she needs to learn to NOT throw the "he's sucking up" temper tantrum. Don't let her get away with that -- she needs to know that it is inappropriate, unappreciative behavior that will not be tolerated. Leslie is right -- she will act this way with any man in your life. It's not him personally. Don't let her dictate your life -- you are the adult.

On another note -- by having kids, I am NOT signing away my right to have a relationship for 18 years. As I have said many times before, Mom is only one of the many hats I wear. I was raised by two parents that were crazy about each other and openly showed affection for each other. That is what I saw growing up -- a happy, healthy relationship. And that is the kind of relationship I wanted, because I saw how awesome it can be. And that also describes my second marriage. This is what I want my kids to see and learn -- I don't think I'm setting a bad example by showing them a loving, affectionate and HEALTHY relationship. And a bonus ... I couldn't be happier. A happy set of parents radiates down to the kids.

RosieL...can you please tell us your situtation.. you sure are fast on advice for EVERYTHING....are you a step parent? Working (out of the house) mother? 2nd wife? grandparent? caregiver? shoot RosieL you give advice on everything!!!! you must be one wise lady... I have never seen anyone on so many forums with SO MUCH KNOWLEDGE OF EVERYTHING...

I am a step-daughter (or was until she died). I have been married for 29 years (same man), 2 children 17 and 16 (bio kids). Husband and I own our own business and I work out of the home for that business. I only post on 2 forums ... Kitchen and Bath and this one. I am in my 50's so I do have a half a century of experience behind me. Not religious in an organized religion sort of way, but very moral, family (especially child) oriented. Would love to live long enough to hold my grandchildren. Am a caregiver for my parents and my in laws as well and a very active community and school volunteer. Have worked as a volunteer in schools for many years and I have many friends that are teachers. In speaking to them, I have learned that they are able to pick up within 1/2 hour of being in a class, which children come from homes where they are not valued as the priceless gifts in our lives that they are. I am not a second wife, we were both never married before. Pretty much an Ozzie and Harriet life. I believe that life is all about choices. We know what is right and what is wrong intllectually and sometimes choose the wrong based on emotions and hormones - not intellect. That's what gets us into trouble.

teeweeone

You are SO RIGHT ! I was thinking the same thing - and what's worse is that yes rosieL you may have been a step but your in as you call it a ozzie and harriet type family thing for how many year?

Your posts are so negativeand I have yet to read one that is upbeat and positive. What is up with that! with your perfect little life.

Thought this forum was for family's however they are made up of people dealing with steps etc. you just seem to have what you think is an answer for everyone in every situation.

I for one came to this forum looking for people in shoes like mine, for advise or insights, not for someone who thinks they know it all.

Just my opinion ( and someone elses apparently too)

Er...I'm butting in here, but...as a semi-professional blowhard myself, I think Rosie has every right to voice whatever opions she has on whatever list she wants, as long as it's not, say, pickup lines. Asking people on a web forum to stop giving their opinions is somewhat like being on a listserv and complaining you get too much mail. If you don't want to read the opinion...skip over it.

Thanks Joe. I have come to respect your opinions though sometimes they differ from mine. I usually find that those that are the most opposed to my opinons are the ones that hate morality,logic and the children that - by their relationships, they accepted as at least #2 - if not #1 in their lives. I think that steps could benefit greatly from listening to the opinions of stepchildren instead of being so self oriented as to think that the role of the step parent is the only aspect of the step family that exists. I* have succeeded at my relatonships despite being a step child. I would think that you could learn from that if you really wanted advice ... or are you just looking for someone to agree with your distorted viewd of self gratification?

Wow Rosie! That was bit harsh! I, for one, do not always agree with your opinions. That doesn't mean that I think that you're a bad person or a know-it-all. I respect everyones opinions here, but they are just opinions. And when I am opposed to your opinions it certainly does not mean that I hate morality, logic, and put my children second in my life.
I think it is great that you are married to one man. I wish that was true of myself. However I can't control the actions of a cheating man. See, I do have some morals. Wasn't he a great role model for my kids? No way. They were better to not have his behaviour in their own home.
You seem like a good person, caring and thoughtful. But I don't think that you always see both side of the fence. Everyone's situation is different. I do admire how you stand up for your morals and beliefs.
And canine, remember that this is a place to state your opinions and thoughts. Everyone has a right to voice theirs if we like it or not. So if you can't stand the heat..get out of the kitchen!

Wow! Wow!

Our first marriages ended for a variety of reasons, but I don't think any one of us married and said "oh goody ... 5, 10 or 15 years from now I can get divorced ... I can't wait!". Circumstances are all different, but it is not something we did on purpose. Everybody wants Ozzie and Harriet. If things were different, I'd be married to my first husband 23 years now. Not my reality. So, I'm married to husband #2 for 5 years instead. Oh well. Life sucks. Wish I'd have picked #2 husband FIRST, then we would be Ozzie & Harriet, too.

I hate to say this and I'll probably take a firestorm, but I don't think anyone knows what being a step-mom is REALLY like unless you personally have walked in those shoes. Yes, people can have high-brow ideas about how things should be, how you should act, what you think should happen ... but you know what? Unless you've been there, you have no clue. Being a step-child is not the same as being a step-parent. Sorry -- not the same. Until you are responsible for someone else's child with no thanks and no recognition, but care for them anyway and deal with the day-to-day issues and problems, you have no idea.

I'm not saying that I don't agree in theory with RosieL or wish that my life hadn't had the twists and turns that it has ... but that's just not the way it turned out. I'm just trying to do the best that I can with what I have, for my FAMILY ... not just ME.

Yes, everyone's entitled to their opinions and I wouldn't dream of saying differently, I would've never posted here if I was just wanting people to say, Good girl Melissa, whatever you want to do is just peachy! I posted here to get sincere, unbiased ideas and advice, the same as most of the people I imagine. I just think it's very easy to sit in judgement of others when you haven't been in their shoes.

I understand and appreciate morals, good judgement, and ethics RosieL ... but there needs to also be compassion and sympathy, if not empathy.

Ah, well. This (sort of argument) viz opinions and the sharing thereof recurrs every once in a while on all lists and forums everywhere. I wouldn't put too much stock in it for while the argument itself isn't all that important, it can have one real ('real' as in 'serious') result which is breaking apart the cool little community thing we have going here.

My two cents -- I sort of tongue-in-cheek judge the health of a society by the number of little old ladies (not comparing you to a little old lady, Rosie :) hanging out on the sidewlks and stoops and minding everyone else's business. Lots of little old ladies => the cultural median is strong and I don't have to worry about roving gangs of children beating me up for my tennis shoes. Or another way -- the swings of rebellion vs authority aren't so drastic.

But I have lots of theories. :)

Sorry everyone.. I guess my point is RosieL has never had a stepchild but, yet she gives her opinion on this subject ALOT!! She has posted that someones out of control 13 year old has problems because she now lives with the parent and their significant other. NOT!! The child had problems when he or she came to live with them. I have also seen her post that she would let "her" kids over another kids house if the people were not married.. News flash.. A long time ago I lived with my b/f who had custody of his child.. While the little girl down the street with married parents was wearing makeup and running the streets all night, I had his daughter at the library. I bet if you were not married to the same man, had kids by different men and was a step parent to someone your views would be alot different...I just think everyone here comes for advice. Dont give advice on being a step mom when you are not...jeeezz common sense people....

teeweeone, I think that being a stepchild qualifies a person to give advice to stepparents. We give a whole new side that stepparents have not seen. We were on the other side of the problems. Saying someone cannot give advice because they have not been in that situation is not a realistic thing. Why only get one side of it when you can get both sides? I had 2 stepparents. One was great and the other was not. I know why I respected and loved one of them and really dont care if see the other again. Do you have the same number of kids as the people you give advice to? Are they the same gender and age? Is the exwife the exact same way? If not then why are you allowed to give advice as well?

Sorry, but I agree with teeweeone, as I said in my earlier post on this thread. Being a step-child and a step-parent is NOT the same thing. Different prespective, different set of issues ... all of the responsibility and none of the glory. How can a stepchild understand that?

Do you know what it's like to care for a kid that thinks Mom's the salt of the earth, even though the rest of the world knows she's psycho? Do you know what it feels like to care for this kid anyway? Do you have any idea what it's like to have to deal with an ex? To be dragged into court over and over and over to deal with ignorant custody issues that could have been resolved with a phone call if BM could talk without boo-hooing? Oh, and when that's done ... go back to court again for CS issues? Have you experienced the financial strain court battles bring? Do you have a clue what it's like to live with a kid who thinks the world revolves around their a$$es because they're been spoiled rotten by bio-parents over divorce-guilt, whom you've had zilch input into raising? How about dealing with the differences in discipline between the two homes? Have you taken phone calls at 7:00 am on Sunday morning because BM decided she wants to change visitation? Or waited until the last minute to tell you about a play the kid is in and expects you to attend? Have you experienced judges who tend to favor BM's even if their homes and lifestyle would be unfit for a dog? Have you held your mate as they are heartbroken over court ruling? Oh, but it's not done ... let's go to court again because BM won't let the kid come on vacation with us -- ya know, they have a church bazaar that weekend, so she can't swap.

No, I didn't think you had lived thru all that.

Rosie was a step child, she can give her perspective of that position and maybe give us a different view. That doesnt mean that she knows what everyones situations are, but she can offer her insight. She may not know what it's like to be a stepmother, but she does know how she felt as a stepchild. That is the value I see in her posts.
I find value in posts from people like you Mom24 because you are a stepmother and can offer advice from your point of view. I don't think that this forum is about who is right and who is wrong. I think that everyone here would agree that it's just plain hard to be a stepparent or a stepkid.

RosieL has just as much right to dole out advice as anyone whether she has the life-experience to back it up or not. If you don't like her advice, don't heed it. And if you don't like her posts don't read them. But never, ever, criticize another poster like that. That's just rude and tasteless.

By no means am I saying tht Rosie doesn't have the right to dole out advice, nor am I saying that her opinions are not valued. Many times I agree with her!

I'm simply saying that unless you are a step-parent, you cannot possibly know what it is like to live that role and the roller coaster of emotions you feel.

Criticizing her? Hopefully you weren't thinking that I did that, because I in no way intended to. I'm simply stating the obvious -- it's easy to sit in judgement of others, but until you've walked a mile in their shoes you cannot possibly see things through their eyes and their hearts.

RosieL, just want to put a disclaimer her.. I have no problems with the things you say. Even if I did, I'm not into bashing. I just like the discussion. You remind me of my mother, and I respect my mother very much...YOu make some very good points and I respect how you put children first... so this post is just to play 'devil's advocate' with one of your statments. I have some constructive cricticism.. (I think) on this statement you made...

"I think that once we have children ... their well being comes before our happiness and love life. They will be with you for a very short wile and you will have the rest of your life for romancing. "

I agree with that to some extent. I mean, I even find myself putting my only child, who happens to be my step son, before my own marriage as far as time, effort, patience, etc.. But isn't it true and important to realize that the children will be happiest when their parents are happy too? I mean, they need a happy home! And if mama ain't happy? lol. I don't think that means that a single parent should throw their kids around to different babbysiters while they go out on dates, etc... but clearly, that is not what is going on here. This person is VERY concerned about her childrens' feelings. The fact is, that she needs to rebuild her home and her marriage and I think she is right to do this for herself and for her daughter/children. LisRac states:

"I love my husband and I want to try to make my marriage work. My husband went for counseling and realizes how things he did and things he said were hurtful. He knows he was wrong in a lot of his attitudes and wants to try and make it right (with counseling). I'm scared to hurt my kids or make them unhappy, although I know I can't make my decision based solely on a 12 year old's views."

Sounds good to me! I think people get divorced because they give up to soon. That's my take. I think they go through a rough year, or in this case, have a very difficult time making a blended family work... and they simply give up. Listen, all families have problems. Even non-blended families. And no one is perfect. My parents have been 'happily' married for 40 years. God, it's like a fairy tale for them now that the kids are gone, but I remember a couple of those years being sort of... nasty... especially when my sister and I were oh, about... 12!!! I remember my sister hating my Dad for about 2 of those years. He had a lot of 'teasing' issues and picked on her for being lazy. Caused a lot of turmoil for the whole family. They both went into counseling, eventually. Now, she's (almost) Daddy's little girl too. I wouldn't trade my family for the world!! Makes me sick to think that my mom would have given up on my Dad just because my sister practically hated him for two years. Course back then I thought "you jerk!"... knowing what I know now and the kind of man and father he became to me. I'm so glad we never gave up and that we were able to forgive the mistakes that we ALL made.

Of course, LisRac needs to be realistic about this man and really decide if this IS what is going to make her, then ultimately her children... happy! I don't know this man. But... he says he wants to try to make it work! Let him be a man and help make it work! LisRac has a chance to have a happy family. It is not going to be easy, and the children will need help through it all... but are they going to be better off without rebuilding a family? Are they not going to learn and grow and become stronger by going through these changes and accepting another human being...who they may even grow to love? ... into their lives? The potential is awesome. I mean, just think... if LisRac and her family work through this and rebuild their home... what a strong family that could be!

That may seem a little idealistic... but I'm a glass is half-full kind of person, I guess!

Well said, Kelo! I agree with you 100% ...

I don't think it was ever an issue of don't take him back for any of the people who responded to this. I think it was more of a 3 months of counseling is not enough after being abusive. Yeah if she wants and he is willing to work on the relationship go for it, but moving him back in just because he says he has changed is not the answer. I am sure that this little girl is afraid that what happened last time will happen again. It might, but if he is willing to put in more time to counseling and work on the relationship with the mom and the kids not just the mom then it will work. To just move him in is not going to solve this little girl's resentment. Things need to be better before he comes back.

Brandym is you go back up a few messages LisRac says he was never abusive. That is a powerful mistake on your part. Also LisRac says her girl is 12, and that is alot different from a 'little' girl.

LisRac your first messages were a week ago. With all of this advice have you come to a decision?

Kelo, I really liked your post.

I thought she said he was verbally abusive at times. That is worse than being physically abusive. 12 is still a little girl. MAny things need to be done before he moves back in. People say they have changed all the time and when they are put in the same situation again they do the same thing all over. Steps need to be taken to make sure that doesnt happen. This includes staying in counseling, having a few group sessions so he can see the damage he has caused, and not jumping back into the live in situation until the counsler having met the entire family says that they dont think it would be a problem. If you ask any professional counseler they will tell you that it takes longer to get the the root of the problem than 3 months.

I really want to thank all of your for your views, thoughts, opinions and advice. I have done a lot of soul searching, talking to my daughter, my husband and to God (not necessarily in that order). My husband is not back in the home, but we are going to try to move forward and make our marriage and family work. We both know it will take work and prayer, maybe that's where we went wrong the last time. We allowed ourselves to be overwhelmed and just thought everything would fall into place.

Our relationship is not perfect, ain't no such animal ... but we both feel that it's definitely worth working like mad to make it work ... for ALL of us.

Thanks again for all of your help in this!