You can lead a horse to water --
You can even shove his head into the trough and hold it down --
But you just can't make him drink!

I wonder how much of it is that a parent doesn't know what is best versus how much is that they can't even see what's in the children's best interests when it conflicts with what it is they want.

I think it should be mandatory for all... and personally I think there should be some sort of mandatory parenting class for anyone that has or wants to have children... But, then I guess that would be infringing on persons freedoms and that is a whole other ball of wax entirely... but seriously, You have to take a test to drive a car, but any ole person can produce and have control over another human life.

I'm one of those weirdo people who cringes every time she hears the word "mandatory" or "required."

No way, no how do I agree with more government regulation.

exactly vivian

which is exactly why the all american land of the free girl in me knows... no way no how...too dangerous

but then the mommy protector of all things innocent in me says ..hmm that would be a good idea

Here in MN, we offer greatly reduced in cost marriage licenses if applicants complete specific premarital classes and bring in a signed certificate. The state wants to see if it reduces the number of divorces over a seven-year period. I hope it does. I think pre-parenting and post-divorce classes would be a good idea too.

"I wonder how much of it is that a parent doesn't know what is best versus how much is that they can't even see what's in the children's best interests when it conflicts with what it is they want."

I think Sweeby hit the nail on the head. It really doesn't matter if the law/Government says they have to take this class - many people don't feel rules apply to them. I think until adults learn to act like adults and put their child's needs before their own no class will help, manditory or not.

It's a shame.

IÂm not talking about a class. Here in CA, the courts can require families to see a therapist. I would like to see every family with children do so. Think about the benefits to the children (which should be everyoneÂs priority). The parents canÂt bad mouth each other  they will have to be accountable to the therapist if they do. The children will have someone to confide in. The parents will have someone to ask "How should I handle this situation?" If a parent does have a serious mental disorder or substance abuse problem, the therapist will catch this and help protect the children. If the child is slipping or having a particularly difficult time with the divorce and new significant others, the therapist can help.

I can see only positive benefits to the children from thisÂ

IÂm certainly not threatened by this and I really believe it would benefit my SD Â which is why I have been thinking about itÂ

"I can see only positive benefits to the children from thisÂ"

...and I see another way for the government to get their grubby little fingers into my family. No thanks.

People who WANT therapy will seek it out. People who don't, won't. You might be able to force their body to be there, but you certainly cannot force them to participate. How valuable is therapy with an unwilling party? Not very.

So you threaten them with removing the children? I get a rash just thinking about it...

"You can lead a horse to water --
You can even shove his head into the trough and hold it down --
But you just can't make him drink!"
So true, a selfish, self centered person just doesn't get it. Or never learned parenting skills. I see first hand where parenting classes were mandatory and such a person was told by therapist and every other couple in the class he was making excuses but no matter how his head was shoved in "you can't make him drink". He honestly figures a few hrs on Sunday, usually working on computer while son watches TV, is all that is necessary and he is good dad.

I dragged my Ex to counseling several times -- and he never learned a thing.
I learned a lot - and even the counsellors got an eyeful!
But he already knew everything...

IÂm really surprised by these responses. IÂm not talking about changing the other parent  IÂm talking about helping these children of divorce - many of whom live in blended families  a very difficult situation where the children are more often than not the losers

1. Some complain about what the ex says to the children. This would stop because of the accountability.

2. Some are unsure how to handle various situations that arise. This would give you someone with training to help solve these dilemmas in a constructive manner.

3. The kids. Think of how confused they must be! In my SDÂs case, her parents split when she was 8. Gone was the family she had trusted. Gone were the dog and the cat she loved. Gone was the only house she had ever lived. Within months of the divorce, mom and sd moves in with momÂs boy friend. A couple of years later, Dad marries a woman with a child who lives with dad full time. My sd has trouble making friends and is uncomfortable in new situations. She also has anger management issues. I have to believe some of this is because of the divorce and the fact that her mother suffers from NPD. It would be great if she had someone to talk to that could actually help. Someone that had her best interest at heart.

4. I believe sdÂs mother suffers from NPD. If I am right, it would be great to find out how to counter all the negative this child receives daily from her mom. Sweeby, if you had a counselor involved, your ex may have never been granted custody.

I could go on-and-on. Have none of you ever benefited from counseling? Is this just a CA thing??? When I was pregnant with my daughter and my husband was drunk all day ever day (I swear I didnÂt know he had a drinking problem until I became pregnant  then it was hard for anyone to miss  the pregnancy seemed to send him over some edge he had apparently been on). My house was in foreclosure, my job was suffering, I didnÂt know how I was going to get to the hospital if I went into labor at night and didnÂt know where I would be taking the baby home to. I was depressed  a total mess - and needed help. I sought out a counselor who helped me immensely!

I trust and appreciate professional therapy. Maybe itÂs a CA thingÂ

My exH and I went to a total of 4 counselors during and after the divorce. I think he would agree that it was a waste of time. Neither of us could stand the first one, and he ignored all of her advice, even the good advice. The second one was a bit flaky. The third was ok, but she didn't provide any helpful advice and eventually decided we could work out any issues between us without her help (I guess she realized that we got along just fine as long as the OW didn't have any input). Of course that counselor was the one who assured my H that our child who hadn't spoken to him since he left would "get over it" - I don't think he believed it either. The last one was ok, I thought, but my exH got mad and walked out in the middle. In addition, I saw a counselor myself briefly after my H left, and she was pretty much clueless. Somehow she didn't realize until about the third session that I didn't want to divorce. I thought I had made my thoughts on that matter pretty clear (don't I usually state my opinions pretty clearly?). We did have some nice chats about our dogs, though.

Yeah, it may just be a California thing.

Jeri, we started taking SD to a child psychologist during our year long custody battle, and it was nothing but good for her. Now, 7 years later, she still asks to go once a year or so when something is eating at her. When her mom met man/moved man in/moved houses/had baby in a year and a half she asked to go a couple times. She sees him as "safe" ground, and still quotes some coping techniques he taught her.

But now the unfortunate flip side:
1. "Some complain about what the ex says to the children. This would stop because of the accountability." I only wish. No doctor, evaluator or judge has been able to stop this. accountability doesn't matter to someone who is only accountable to them self.
2. "Some are unsure how to handle various situations that arise. This would give you someone with training to help solve these dilemmas in a constructive manner." I thought this too, but if that doctor doesn't say what *you* want to hear, *you* can just block it out and go on doing what *you* want. 4 "co-parenting" meetings proved useless - even the doctor told us nothing he could say would get through to mom.

I wish you luck, Jeri. Yours is not an easy place to be.

My state requires that all divorcing parents attend a "parenting" class. That was a joke. The instructor defined the "sleeper effect" as "a few years down the road the kids may have a few questions." Wallerstein's sleeper effect is actually "deep and long-term emotional problems that arise only when the children enter early adulthood and begin to confront issues of romance and marriage." http://www.divorceresourcecenter.com/sleeper-effects.htm

Even if the instructor disputed the existence of the sleeper effect, she could at least not have lied about the definition.

Then there were the two lovebirds who sat a few rows in front of me and made me want to puke. And the guys who kept complaining about their wives having a problem with their kids being around their live-in girlfriends.

These supposedly expect parenting instructors never mentioned infidelity, rebound relationships, the risks of introducing your children to a succession of girl/boyfriends, or a host of other issues.

And I had to pay fifty bucks for this.

Hi Jeri -

"1. Some complain about what the ex says to the children. This would stop because of the accountability. "

NotMartha already said it - but I'll repeat -- To someone who believes only what he wants (needs) to believe, what the therapist says simply doesn't matter. I did convince my Ex to go to counselling to address some parenting issues. I brought up the things DS told me Ex had said that I was concerned about -- and he admitted to saying them! The counsellors explained why these things were inappropriate and harmful, but Ex refused to agree, or even acknowledge. And he refused to change.

"4. I believe sdÂs mother suffers from NPD. If I am right, it would be great to find out how to counter all the negative this child receives daily from her mom. Sweeby, if you had a counselor involved, your ex may have never been granted custody. "

Like I mentioned above, I did get counsellors involved. And it didn't do a bit of good, because what Ex said to them was confidential, and according to my lawyer (a very well-respected family law attorney in our city) -- even if it were 100% true and proveable in court, it still wouldn't be enough to overturn our son's (IMO, coerced) statement.

That said -- I do agree that counselling helped ME enormously. But that's because I was willing to listen, to stretch, to try new things. And it was counsellors who diagnosed Ex in the first place (NPD), which validated my feeling that Ex was more than 'just a jerk' and that he was unlikely to ever change.

Furthermore, I was able to get it written into our custody modification that DS would see a counsellor every year plus at any other time either parent (not both - either) felt it was warrented, and that that counsellor would have 'binding authority' where the parents disagreed. (I don't know HOW that clause made it past his lawyer - who is also very well-respected.) But again, even that doesn't do much good because DS is very, very private and won't talk to the counsellor (any counsellor) -- And thankfully, StepMom is sane enough that Ex hasn't, to my knowledge, done anything too bad.

I'm certainly not offended by your position or suggestions Jeri -- just less wide-eyed about the possibilities of success.

What the therapist says also doesn't matter if the therapist doesn't know what he or she is talking about. Both my exH and I have heard lots of nonsense from the various therapists we saw. One of them actually told him that he should tell the children that he was renting a room from his girlfriend, rather than cohabitating with her. She didn't see any problem with 1)lying to the children, or 2) the fact that the oldest children were adults/near adults and none of them were stupid. Fortunately he ignored that piece of bad advice.

Gee, I see politicians and their families and there is NO WAY I want them deciding who can have kids. They are as messed up as it gets, some of them.

When my ex husband and I were divorcing we went to therapy, but he quit when the therapist didnt support the position that he was right and that I needed to change. People, unfortunately, often have their minds made up that they are right and the other person is wrong.

Its also really common for people to blame the demise of their marriage totally on the other party, without addressing their own role in it. THose people, when they remarry, often find they have the same problems, different partner.

From recent threads:

You may have to spend some money and get court ordered evaluation

and

and the approval of a professional

and

Maybe getting her in to see a therapist now will help her sort through what she really wants, and help her to stand up to pressure.

Maybe itÂs my deleveriy. Maybe I have a hard time explaining myself This is what I am trying to say but make it for everyone  not just those in crisisÂ

Jeri,
I think your heart is the right place.I have to agree with vivian though. I dont think making people go is the answer.
I also dont see how they would really be able to ENFORCE IT. I also am not sure therapy works 100% of the time. Just like with any doctor,sometimes you get one you dont click well with and it doesnt really help.