I realized you had posted that info after I posted that last message. Indeed, your points have steered me towards the 400 series. I only am leary of wood in a window because of my naivety. In your opinion does the no drip sill in the 400 series + epoxy paint more or less resolve any reservations you'd have about the wooden sash? The woodwright is enticing, however, I think that window may take us out of our budget. It seems like $450-$500 per window is likely for the 400 series. I'm not sure how much more the woodwright would be beyond that. Thank you again!!

BTW, @User the price I posted above is based on the HD price, although I think that is an insert/replacement. Based on your multiplier of 1.66 for the woodwright, what is the base price of the 200 that you would use?

The price per window depends on the size, interior finish and mullion design which has not been revealed. I could give you real prices from window orders over the past few years. In general, windows get cheaper per s.f. as they get larger so it helps to use fewer but larger windows and mullions only in the upper sash.

Its the 200 that has no drip and a painted sash, not the 400. The 200 sill can be fixed by adding an Azek historic sill which looks great. I use it for all windows.

If you study the different sash details above, you will see that an aluminum, fiberglass or vinyl exterior cladding on a wood window is really more of an aluminum, fiberglass or vinyl window with a wood interior cladding. The same is true of the frame but to a lesser extent because it needs to be stronger. The early clad wood windows suffered from wood rot but the use of wood preservatives and reversed cladding construction fixed the problem about 20 years ago.

2 years ago I priced a double-hung clad wood window that had a 30 x 65 RO and 6 over 1 SDL The price before tax for the Andersen 200 was $450 and for the Marvin fiberglass clad wood (Elevate/Integrity) it was $600. The increase for the Andersen 400 WW is less than what I indicated earlier because it fights with the Marvin fiberglass clad window for the mid-range window market and sometime you can get the WW for a small increase in price. The price of the Marvin Ultimate is out of sight..

If you are looking for a window in the $300 to $350 range you will probably have to look at some of the better grade all-vinyl windows. I can only tell you what I see in their published details.

Res, what do you consider the better grade all vinyl windows?

The 400 sash is also painted. Most windows windows do not use sills , if you want to use a drip feature make sure to plan your exterior trim trim and how it integrates to an outie styled window. Windows have been using preservative for much longer than 20 years. Some have fixed nothing and some have changed designs and materials especially in the sill. I’d say the material is more important that the drip. The Woodright jumps up a bit in price. Only way to find out is to price them. Where are you getting your pricing from.

Sigh.....this is all such good information but I'm still wildly overwhelmed. I was thinking maybe the Andersen 400 was the answer, but I don't know that I'll be able to double my window budget (FWIW, I'd go with white from the factory inside and out). Although, I requested a quote on the Andersen 400 from my builder, perhaps I need to start looking for a good vinyl like @User has suggested. Where to begin...

The Andersen 400 Tilt-Wash sash is epoxy painted but the Andersen 400 Woodwright sash is clad with Fibrex, a wood and plastic composite.

All windows have sills; by definition its the bottom part of the frame. What is different with nail-fin windows is the sill doesn't extend farther forward than the rest of the frame and it rarely has a good drip or a notch for the siding so water can easily penetrate behind the siding. However, the Andersen 400 frame has both features (see detail above)

Also all of the nail-fin window sills don't extend to the outer edges of the jamb trim like a traditional window so builders are tempted to add a flat trim under the sill which only increases the likelihood of water penetration when the caulking eventually fails.

Wood windows have used preservatives longer than 20 year but the use of effective preservatives for clad wood windows occurred about 20 to 25 years ago. In the late 80's and early 90's many manufacturers of clad wood windows had major problems with rotted wood even though they were using preservatives. Marvin was one of the last to fix the problem. My oldest Marvin catalog is 1995 when they finally got it right.

I'm finally getting it @User.....the drip sash sounds like an important feature to make sure is part of the window. Is there something about a vinyl window that eliminates this issue or is this just a design flaw specific to Andersen?

It varies with the manufacturer and with the models of each manufacturer. Andersen has the worst sill on the 200 but the best sill on the 400 Tilt-Wash and Woodwright. I solved the sill problem by adding a continuous sill under all windows even the Marvin Ultimate series..

@User Is there a vinyl window mfg you'd start looking at in the Midwest region? I may have to start looking in that direction....

I am not a window expert, but my really awesome millwork company (which primary deal with mid- to high end windows) strongly prefers Milguard if a client needs to go with vinyl.

Thanks @Kristin S, it doesn't look like Milgard is available in Michigan, according to their website.

Vinyl windows seem to have an unusual option: the location of the nail fin can be altered in the order. Be careful that the position doesn't make the window protrude any farther outward than it already does. It shouldn't be any farther back than the outside face of the glass.

Its all detectable in the detail drawings.

One of the vinyl window manufacturers I'm looking at is Simonton.

Soft-LitePolaris, Okna should be available

The nail fins on most vinyl and most wood windows are in about the same place. About a 1 1/4 in from outside edge of the frame. some windows and many vinyl windows will have a screen track that protrudes further than frame. Most vinyl windows and Many Anderson windows do have an accessory grove where a flush fin or sill type trim can installed. These are not technically Not a nail fin. some use them in stucco applications when going over a aluminum frame. I’m sure the could be used for new construction but typically they are not nor do I think they were meant to be. They are not slotted nor would they have the strength of a normal fin , the window would have to installed with screws threw the jambs like an insert.

3 years in on Okna casements - overall very good windows with basically no air infiltration.

They where close to half the cost of marvin integrity which was my runner up choice

What does basically no air Infiltration mean?

Not enough to blow out a Candle within 18” Better than my old windows but more than expected? So little there was basically none detectable?

The okna 800 enviro-Star have a nice sloped sash which I think @res3D would approve of :-)

The sash is the part than moves. The sill is what slopes.

The Enviiro Star is a replacement window. You need a new construction window

.I am always suspicious of manufacturers that don't publish all of the details of their windows.

Hi Pat,

If you are considering aluminum windows, Origin USA are a leading manufacturer.

We would be more than happy to assist and answer any questions you may have. :)

I loved the Marvin Integrity windows but ended up getting Simonton 600 brickmould windows. They are air tight and smooth to operate. I made sure they included some upgraded features like the Supercept Spacer System, SDL's and half aluminum screens. I looked into their Solarshade but decided it was overkill for our area.

Our siding is LP Smartside around the windows we wanted to have coordinating Smartside trim so we in our order we requested a J Channel filler. When we received the windows the filler was already applied. This series has an integral J Channel which looks fine for the back of a house.

(I would not recommend their mulled together DH windows. We have one on the side of the house with a twin window(daughter wanted a window seat) and it doesn't operate as well as I would like. The top sashes slide down so I probably should make a call in for a replacement. This may not be an all over problem it may just be my specific window. I should have just ordered two separate windows! (Hindsight is 20/20)

If you order their patio doors make sure you go with a taller height because the frames are thicker which makes for a shorter opening.

Finally I also have mulled 2'3'2' casements over our kitchen counter and they are very smooth and seal very well! So I love my Simonton windows and the energy savings they are going to bring me. They are not as beautiful as the Marvin windows I wanted but our budget didn't fit them. I ended up with 26 windows (I counted the twin as 2 windows) at 12k. Most are very large, 3x6, 4x6, 3x5.... We are located in the midwest. I think I remember Integrity being around 18k but they were unfinished windows. Finished would have brought them up to around 19-20k. (Our builder only budgeted 7k for windows lol.......)

Here is what our windows look like. (I also wanted to do the actual historic sill but our lumberyard was unable to get it so I compromised with my builder on the window trim.)

I guess I have one last thing. One of our windows came in missing a latch. Our lumberyard got a hold of his rep and he came down, saw it and has an order in for a replacement sash. So good customer service too and if you read the warranty it is much better than other window companies!

I could take some closer pictures if you need more detail!

My builder is giving me one choice: CGI Estate windows. I guess that's what we'll do to survive a 180mph hurricane.

@K H thank you very much! very helpful review. I’ve not looked closely into Simonton, although I’ll give them a serious look. It sounds like our builders are similar in how they budget windows (mine is $9k) and I plan to put at least another 5-6k into Windows. I think that perhaps, Simonton could be a viable option. I may find a dealer in the area and see if I can go have a look at some. Thank you for the review!

@User et al. We got a quote from our builder for some window upgrades. Here is the rundown;

Original allowance for Jeld Wen v2500 (19 double hung & 10 picture) was $9000

Andersen 200 $14,500

Andersen 400 $17,500

Quite honestly, the 400s came in cheaper than I had expected at around $600/window installed. I think, for an extra $3000, the 400s are a worthy choice for the reasons discussed above.

NOW, I have one question regarding these windows. A family member had recommended changing the front elevation around the windows to have sill trim detail under each window versus picture frame detail. I'm attaching a picture of what he recommended. With that being said, I THINK the 400s will accomplish this look as the have a nice sill on them. Would you agree?

Let me know your thoughts and thank you again!

Andersen does have have casing and sill trim that snaps into there accessory groove. This type of casings looks really clean and eliminates the outie look of modern windows. Other casings will have to butt up to the frame and may sit even with the frame , or protrude or be recessed depending on what you do .

@toddinmn thanks for the info. If this is an option I want my builder to price out, can you point me toward a website where I can show him what we would like? Does Andersen have this casing and sill trim on their website so I can show him?

FWIW, The casing is going to be hardie board. I don't think a sill is planned as depicted in the picture unless the 400 series will add this look. Otherwise, I wonder if it's worth it to swap hardie board out for andersen casing and sill?

Casing and sill will be an expensive add-on. But go for it if you want that look!

@K H Casing in Hardie Board material is included in our price. It may be an even swap to use the Andersen Fibrex trim versus Hardie Board. I'll have to check on that. I think at minimum we would swap out the lower casing for a sill and leave the rest of the casing as hardie board. Although, I don't know if the two would mesh very well....

I pretty sure you can paint Fibrex if it doesn't match your Hardie board trim (but I would have to look that up to be 100%). We looked at Anderson 400 Woodwrights too. I was running out of time though so it wasn't a clear look. I never got a chance to operate one of their sample units. They look like a pretty window and they have a ton of options. (Make sure if you are swapping sills you put that all in writing so they can prep the window that way when they make it. Or send the proper assembly pieces to your builder so they can do it in field)

Once again for us finishing the wood interior was a hurdle (wasn't sure who would do that and it wasn't in our original bid) and the fact that the closest dealer/lumberyard was 50 miles away. That is why we went with Simonton because I knew if we called our local lumberyard (which we went through for everything) with problems, he would be able to help and would feel obligated since we spent most of our money with him!

https://www.andersenwindows.com/windows-and-doors/options-and-accessories/exterior-trim/ I have not used it before but have seen it. Definatley gonna cost more and littltl de labor . I would recommend. Matching other trim to an Andersen color especially if you used the whole surround.

Your picture shows an apron below the sill I personally don’t like that on an exterior, and prefer a thicker sill (1 1/2) . I have done jobs making my own sills out of a nice straight grain fur With hardy ripe casing. I even ran a few saw kerfs on the underside for a drip.

Thanks for the replies folks! I just spoke to the builder and he said in order to accomplish the exterior sill look, they would have to use Azek trim and it would be a $5100 upgrade. No thanks!! Great info and thank you again!

I would look into Anderson's extended sill nose then with flat casing. You won't have the apron under the sill but it will be the closest to the look you have on your elevation. I can't remember what the exterior casing cost per window but it was significant but we also don't know the cost of your Hardie board trim. I know our trim package to do just the front/side windows, garage, porch beam and frieze board was around 6k for LP Smartside. We used 5/4 4" and 6" boards our beam is 4x8 sheets of LP paneling ripped down (Not sure if this was the best way to do it or normal practice but we were hoping for longevity!)

@K H I thought one of the benefits of the 400 was that it had the drip sill unlike the 200. Is the sill nose esthetics only, or does it serve a functional purpose?

The Andersen price is probably for the Tilt-Wash 400 with an epoxy painted sash rather than the Woodwright 400 with a Fibrex clad sash but its sill a good window. The frames are the same. I posted the details for both earlier.

The sill detail you posted is not one I would recommend. It looks like an interior window stool complete with an apron below it. That's expensive.

Below is a photo of an Andersen 400 with an Azek Historic Sill AZM–6930 and 5/4" thick casing trim.

It should be much cheaper then the 2 piece detail you asked your builder to price and there are cheaper brands. Home Depot sells an inexpensive vinyl composite sill but I haven't used it. Shop around.

Since all you need to do is cut the sill to length and screw it to the wall, it shouldn't cost any more than a flat "picture frame" board since that should be rabbeted to fit under the Andersen 400 sill.

@User That is correct, these are the 400s and not the Woodwright variation. Budget can only go so far! I know you've answered this over and over again, but even the 400s (NOT woodwright), mostly address the no drip sill issue found on the 200. Is that correct?

I would give your Andersen dealer a call. It seems that they mostly sell their exterior casing for aesthetics (even their drip cap is labeled Decorative) so I wouldn't know if their sill nose would protect the house. I'm just a consumer going off of the research I did when we chose our window trim. The AZEK drip sill that RES posted has an angled edge to help water drip off and drain away. Here is a side view of the Andersen sill nose. I don't think you would need an extended sill nose like in the above picture. But it has a similar profile to the AZEK one.

There is no difference between the Andersen Tilt-Wash and Woodwright frames and the sill is the bottom part of a window frame.

The Andersen Fibrex factory trim and sill nose would look similar to field installed casing trim and historic sill. The choice would depend on cost. I suspect the Andersen trim would be more expensive but if it is shipped installed it might end up being cheaper. I haven't used it.

@User Ok, I thought you were mentioning the painted sash as a negative and eluding to the fact that the woodwright addressed that specific issue. I know the WW has the addition of some Fibrex on the exterior. I want to summarize the benefits of the 400 over the 200 as i understand it;

-It has an angled sill to avoid the "no drip" issue the 200s have

-there is additional vinyl cladding on the exterior (more so than the 200 series)

-Over all better craftsmanship and look

Lets remove the woodwright from the equation, just isn't going to happen due to budget. Since you mentioned there's no difference between the 400 and the 400ww I would assume the angled sill is still a benefit of the 400 series over the 200 series. The main drawback of the 400 is that there is no fibrex clad and is a painted epoxy sash. Am I getting it?

I've had Andersen and Pella, both are great craftmanship and quality as the years go on. Jumping from Florida to Alaska I love the Andersen windows a whole lot more now. I've had Jeld Wen in my first home...I understand your frustration.

@Semper Fi Home Guy - Brokered By eXp Realty Yeah, my builder uses those by default. Im trying to avoid the frustration in about 8-10 years when they start to fall off the house and let the snow in....

You'll have to let us know what their trim cost with sill nose compares to your Hardie trim in cost. Sounds like you are closer to a decision!

We looked into Andersen and Marvin. Marvins were better bang for the buck. Trish

@brittany martin, "Everyone has a diff. a opinion as well for each window which makes it hard to make a solid decision. At least for me thats how it has been. Once i sway one direction I read online about a neg. so then Im back to step to 1. its frustrating."

Agree!

2 years later we are extremely happy with our Andersen 400s

@Pat F, really happy to know that! I bet they look nice. Did you go with the Tilt Wash or the Woodwright?

Tilt wash. but i bave yet to tilt or wash 😬

LOL. That's funny! Did you get the pre-finished painted interior or did you finish the interiors yourself? We are replacing stained windows and Andersen doesn't offer staining on either the Tilt Wash or the Woodwright, unfortunately. The idea of staining them intimidates me.

Ours came pre finished, white inside and out they did a great job!