I think if you feed someone salt often enough they will eventually turn around and offer it to you.

You wanted to 'disengage' well congrats. The whole stratagem has resulted in the stepkids seeing that you don't like them and their 'disengaging' from you and not wanting to make any effort at being involved with you.

Reading this I also see your stepson and you both engaging in bending the truth, at least, to avoid dealing with each other rather then just saying in a mindful and tactful manner what you feel. This 'disengaging' thing sounds like it may have made the short term easier on you, but that it is starting to damage the relationship your husband has with his kids.

You do not *know* that your stepson told his sister anything, he may well have been telling the truth that he hadn't had a chance. Your stepdaughter may well have found an awesome restaurant that she really wanted to treat her dad to, she likely wouldn't be all that familiar with places and habits in your neck of the woods if she's two hour away.

If you really do feel to terribly sick and exhausted to sit in a car a few hours so that your husband can spend time with his daughter then smile send him off on his happy day with a big mug of coffee and call your stepdaughter's place before they leave for dinner and wish them a happy time (even if you are coughing and wheezing, she'll likely appreciate the effort). But first seriously ask yourself it you don't want to go because you feel ill or if your big plan didn't work out, don't skip out just because your plan was spoiled. If you dont go and you have been rejecting your stepkids for some length of time your stepdaughter is probably going to assume it is just more of the same unless you *yourself* give her some reason to believe otherwise.

Do you want your stepchildren to like you, care about you, and be involved in your plans and activities as much as distance allows, or do you just want them to be your husbandÂs offspring and to not deal with them?

This post may sound harsh, and I don't know what your stepkids are like as a baseline so they may be very difficult people, but I have a reason for the harshness. You are dodging the actual issues all over the place. You have to talk to people when they cause you hurt, not say how sick you feel (high amounts of stress can drop an immune system and make you sick, but even if you feel ill is it from stress or from illness) or how tiered you are. You have to decide what relationship you want with the stepkids and then either live with the choice or realize you made the wrong one and fix it. Whether your stepson and stepdaughter are little angels or little demons doesnÂt change that.

Do you want your stepson and step daughter to care about you, to be involved in your life and to be involved in your plans as much as distance allows; or do you just want them to be the children of your husband and for the to not care at all about you? Are you prepared for the consequences of the choices that you make?

A book I just got out of the library has been great: "Step Wars: Overcoming the Perils and Making Peace in Adult Stepfamilies by Grace Gabe and Jean Lipman-Blumen (Hardcover - April 1, 2004)" You might want to check it out.

Ok so she wants to surprise her hubby with dinner with his kids she calls the kids they turn around .... make it all about them and this is her fault for disengaging....

Great.... So what she takes from this is ... let them fend for themselves no matter what she does she is wrong ... she has to go out of her way to please 20 somethings...

I would say screw it ... I am having dinner with your father here if you want to show up great if not great ... if dad wants to join you great but I'll be at such and such at such and such a time. Either by myself or with hubby or with hubby and his kids but either way .... not going out of my way for anyone anymore ....

Ok, redheadstepchild I can certainly tell you are a stepchild and are totally wrong on all counts. Also, I have read the book step wars several times and refer to it often.

Cawfecup you are correct on all counts.

redheadstepchild, you have not read my other posts over the last couple years. I have been with DH for 8 years and have endured endless rudeness, disrespect, and maniputlation by the SKs over those years. Even with all the disrespect and no effort from the SKs to be freiends, I keep trying in everyway for DH and myself to be friends with the SKs. They have continuelly attempted to disengage and deter me from being part of their lives. If you reread my current post I mentioned that I just recently disengaged due to the abuse I have endured for the last 7 1/2 year from the stepkids. I did it for my mental health. The 2 week sickness I have now is cold/flu related and is starting to clear up.

redheadstepchild have you ever been a stepparent? If so tell me how you have successfully become friends, been included, and respected by your stepkids? I have tried everything. However, it takes two to have a successful relationship. I really want to be friends with my SK for me and my DH. I also know DH wants that. Please give me some truly helpful advise, experiences that have worked and good sound advise. Not your negative unhelpful personal feelings.

First my apologies, I completely missed the line where you mentioned that your stepson relayed that the stepdaughter could make it.

And yes I do not know what your situation is like. All I know is what you have posted here. What I see is someone choosing to pull away from stepkids after getting hurt, then being surprised when they pull away more. That plans started to be made and either Murphy's law happened or one or more of the stepkids decided to be rude/malicious. (I might suggest next time plans with multiple people are involved setting the dinner date up first before another appointment gets in the way.)

I also read a lot of people using excuses, real issues but not the potential big issue, to temporarily work around things. The step son pleading gas/studies when he had plans apparently in the works to go off hunting (presumably with friends, it seems like a group sport) rather then just saying he has other things possibly going on that day. And yourself talking about not going because you've been sick and are worn out from work rather then that you had been making plans that were possibly circumvented by the stepdaughter. (her brother may have just asked if she was free that night)

And I also see someone saying that distancing themself from adult stepchildren is a great cure all. I read that and see such a combination of rejection and running. You say that you have been getting rudeness, disrespect and manipulation from the stepkids for the last 8 years; ok fine it isn't running here then and I'm glad that you are doing what you need to do to stay healthy. But just because it works well for people in bad situation doesn't mean it should always be used. Pulling away and using secondary reasons for why you dont want to do something isnt going to make things improve, all I can see happening there is at best stagnation and likely worsening.

If you do want more of a relationship the only perspective I can offer is as an adult stepchild, shhh it's a secret:~), who has a stepfamily that is really rather distant. Do you have any common interests with the stepdaughter that have occurrences midway between you? A two hour drive is a long way for anyone to do on a work night, but one hour either way might not be that bad.) Maybe a 'girl's afternoon' to catch a movie and slip a lunch, if she can't/won't make it it isn't a great loss and you can still have your own fun, but it is an opportunity. With your stepson living 4-5 hours away the only idea I have is to occasionally ask him about his life. It sounds like they have been really harsh to you, and that this has been going on through the more tumultuous ages with them. They might grow out of it one day. Perhaps the stepdaughter didnt know that actual Plans were in the works and wanted to treat you and her father to a place she knew about and she was making an effort already.

Newstepmom thanks for your non-biased and objective response. It so very clear to many what truely happened here.
readheadstepchild, you are making excuses for these adult stepkids, just as their father does. What they did was rude and disrespectful. As newstepmom said be objective put this into a situation using friends and this would be totally out of line for a friend to do to another.

Frist SS called DH 2 hours before leaving on his hunting trip and informed DH he had no idea until right then he was going. I guess hunting takes presistence over having money to go see his father on his birthday and studies.

Second I made it Real clear to SS this was a Surprise and not to tell his father. I do know for certain he called his sister the very frist and same day that I talked to her brother about the surprise and then she had the nerve to call her dad the very next day to set up a different birthday dinner date. Now what any respectful and proper person would of done was call me and talk with me about it first before calling dad. This would have given her a reason to finally attempt to be a friend with me. Also, when I did call SS back he informed me he couldn't go because of money for gas and studies, but, his sister could go because he had talked to her about the Surprise. So, I would say SD did the wrong thing she should of called me first. Not her dad and spoil the whole surprise dinner.

I know from past history these adult kids have never planned any kind of birthday meal or birthday surprise for their dad, they often forget to even call him on his birthday. If I had not called SS neither one of these stepkids would have remembered DH's birthday and none of this would of happened. I do not call this an effort on SD part. I call this rude and disrespectful and trying to destroy what I was trying to do for all of them.

So now redheadstepchild your next excuse for SD will be "well maybe she didn't know my telephone number" Wrong she could ask her brother for it. I called him 2 times so it is on his phone.

I did plan on calling her when SS called me back so I could plan according to if he was coming or not. However, SD destroyed the surprise.

Third, I have attempted to do things with SD. If you have read my post over the last 2 years you will see every time I set something up SD or SS change it or make it not happen. I have asked SD to go shopping, get our hair done, lunch, etc. and it has NEVER happened because she is always to busy or just cannot make it. By the way 3-4 years ago SD lived with us so there was not a 2 hour drive, however, she made my life hell. She attempted to break DH and I up several times. Even attempted to get DH and bio mom back together by having them in the same place at the same time on many occasions. How uncomfortable for me. By the way this was all so clear no by chance situation. No excuses for these stepkids anymore. I wish people would stop making excuses for bad behavior, rude and disrepectful people. These kids need to be made accountable for their actions. You know if I had friends like these two adult kids who needs enemeis?

So to me disengaging is the only answer for my mental health. I need to tell DH that I can no longer attempt to engage a friend relationship with his kids. They have made no effort to be my friend and as we all know it takes TWO people to make a relationship work. Everytime I have attempted to be friends I am hurt and disrespected. I can no longer take the hurt and it is effecting my mental health. So maybe you are right that this will make them pull away more, but maybe then it will be peaceful and the stress will be gone. I feel so sorry for DH, however, I believe by him making excuses for these children he has made them the way they are "rude, inconsiderate, self centered, disrespectful, unlikeable adults".

Unfortunately I don't see your stepson or stepdaughter posting here in order to chat with them. There is just this one stepmother who on the one hand says she wants more involvement with her stepchildren but at the same time is choosing to pull away from them, and who has one set of reasons for not wanting to do something but only expresses the easier reasons rather then the touchy issues when it comes up (i.e. the injured feelings and the recent illness, but only referencing the illness). It's a combination that I can't ever see accomplishing the goal you mention of wanting a better relationship.

I try to assume that basic human foolishness is a more likely culprit than outright malice. That is the view I've been taking with what you describe of the stepkids and yourself. If they were posting, and I saw it, I'd be calling them on this the same way. That is why I made my 'excuses'. If they are the rare case of really bad apples then fine that doesn't work so well, but you can still control *your own* choices.

Not all adult stepchildren are such difficult relationships. Your blanket statement that we should all be 'disengaged' from is quite wrong, cold, insulting, and heartless. (How would you feel if the treatment you've gotten was frequently advocated and then someone said it should always be done?) What wasn't in your first post was the degree and length of time your difficulties have gone on; now I can understand your choice to pull away, but don't expect to get any kind of improved relationship from them when you do so.

I am neither your stepson nor your stepdaughter. My views may be an inconvenient perspective and they may be based on an inaccurate perspective, but I am not a surrogate target either. Kindly leave off.

I am exiting this thread.

Sunnyg,
What you tried to plan was lovely. I can understand why your feelings were hurt. My MIL use to do this. I'd extend an invitation and right away she'd be on the phone talking to my husband trying to change the plan. My husband would bend in the direction of his mom. The more I pointed out the rude behavior to my husband the more it worked to my disadvantage. I could never disengage from his mom, but I could take a temporary time out. I stepped back and allowed all get togethers to be planned by hubby and his mom. I never uttered a negative word and always enjoyed myself. Hubby quickly realized how rude this behavior was and together we talked it through and stopped the outside spin. Although MIL still tries, it doesn't work anymore because hub and I became a united front, but it took putting my pride in my back pocket.

I am an adult step person and my SM has disengaged from me way too easily. My dad is the one who's suffered which has resulted in declining health for him which in turn is affecting my SM's life. So if I could offer any advice, don't let emotion rule you, step back, take a temporary time out, but don't disengage, in the end you'll be hurt even more... just my two cents. :)

Organic Maureen,

Interested in your thoughts on this disengaging business. After nearly 10 years of being rejected by DH's adult children, I finally decided to back away. For the past 2 years, I have left it to DH to shop for and purchase birthday gifts, Christmas gifts, etc. for his adult children. I do buy gifts for the grandkids. In the past, I would give a lot of thought to things I thought might be special for them and would make suggestions to him about gifts we would give to his children & we would shop for them together...or, if I saw something that struck me as something one of his kids would like, I would buy it. No more. It is a long story, too long to go into here, but I finally hit a wall about 2 years ago and something inside me snapped and the old line went through my head, "Stick a fork in me. I'm done."

More than one of his children live a significant distance from us. It takes hours to fly to see them. It takes days of limited vacation time. In the past, I always accompanied DH on visits to see his children with a variety of hopes in mind --- hope that he & I would share special time with his children; hope we would build special memories with his children; hope these experiences would build a sense of kinship, of family; hope time together would provide the opportunity for them to know me and for me to know them. Inevitably, none of this came to pass. His children would be civil and polite but that was about it. If I asked questions to demonstrate an interest in them & what they were doing, I would be given a perfuntory response & the subject would be changed, usually by asking my DH a question that would begin something like this, "Dad do you remember when OR do you remember so & so...." bringing up something that was shared by them that preceded me, leaving me out of the conversation. When his kids call him, they call him at work or on his cell phone. They rarely, if ever, call him on our home phone.

In the past, I made an effort to build a relationship with his kids not only for DH but also for myself. DH is a wonderful, delightful, playful fellow. My assumption is his kids share some of these qualities and therefore be people in their own right I might want to know. I would think I might be someone they would be curious about, too. However, over the years, I have come to the conclusion they have no interest in knowing me and they have no interest in me knowing them. The message seems to be that while I may be their father's wife, I am certainly no one to them.

So, now, I cheerfully encourage DH to visit his children on his own. I think this is good for them. In the past, DH was torn when visiting his kids, sensitive to what we both perceived to be polite, civil but distinctly distant treatment of me. He wanted me to have a good time and would worry that I was not. Now, he can spend time with his children and not be torn in that way. However, on the other hand, it is a sacrifice for us. He and I, as husband & wife, have missed out on some occasions that would be special for us. For example, he saw his newest grandchild for the first time a couple months ago. I did not accompany him on that trip. We both knew that if I went, I would be something akin to a fifth wheel. I did not want that & he did not want that for me. I missed out on sharing with my husband the experience of him meeting his newest grandchild for the first time. He missed out on sharing this experience with his wife. We did go out together a couple weeks ago when business took him out that way. I did get to meet the baby...but he & I were not sharing a first.

Like sunnygardenerme, I have recently approached all DH's children about planning something together to celebrate an upcoming milestone birthday for DH. Communications to them from me have been in person and via email. I encouraged them to get together to decide if they wanted to do something jointly or if they preferred to do their own thing for DH, but to please let me know one way or another --- so we could begin planning something jointly that might prove logistically complicated --- or that I might just move on and make my own plans to celebrate DH's special day. I initiated those conversations back in June. Thus far, the response I have had from his children has been silence....no response. It is as if the message from his children is "I will be polite and civil to you when you are in my father's presence. Otherwise, you have no place in my life and I am under no obligation to acknowledge you or otherwise engage you."

What would you suggest given this scenario? I look forward to your thoughts.

Hi wrychoice1 -

Your situation sounds familar to me and my heart goes out to you. I believe your thinking is correct about your SK's not giving you any thought other than when they are faced with you. When this belief becomes a reality, we must move on with plans whether we hear from the SKs or not.

I think if it were me, I might remind the SKs about the date, place & time but I think I would also invite a few friends and/or other family members. Since the SKs probably won't show, and since this is a "big" birthday for DH, you might want others there to share it with you both.

One thing I've learned over the past six years is:
"no response IS a response".

Hang in there and have a wonderful celebration. And.....Happy Birthday to DH! :))

Notwicked,

I absolutely agree with you, re: no response is a response. That is what I meant when I wrote "it is as if the message from his children is..."

I feel bad for DH. It would be nice for him to have a greater sense of "family" with respect to his children.

wrychoice1, I can totally relate to how you feel. I have been dealing with the same issues for 8 years. I just recently (last 2 months) stopped asking DH about the stepkids. I try to not get involved with there requests to DH. I keep myself busy and do things DH and I enjoy. I do not go out of my way to involve the step kids anymore. As you can see from my prior post how I got hurt again by trying to be involved with them. I too know they don't really care about me. When I ask them questions they ignore me unless DH is there and they often turn subjects around to things prior to I was around or to their bio mom's life or relatives.

So I have found by disengaging on the majority of things that involve the SKs has been refreshing and has decreased the SKs ability to slap me in the face. It takes two to make a relationship and I have tried, they have not.

I would suggest the same as notwicked. Go ahead make the plans and invite them but go ahead an proceed with or without them. Make sure you and DH have a GREAT time!

Wrychoice1,

Based on my experience here's what I'd suggest:

gifts-let hubby do the gift shopping for his kids, but go along with him, have fun, don't make it ugly.

Visiting: I wouldn't stay behind, it sends the message the distant behavior on the part of the SK's is acceptable. You are his wife, an important member of the family. Do not allow yourself to be labeled as "fifth wheel" I know it's uncomfortable, but in the long run if you stay home it only reinforces you aren't important.

Party-I think it's nice you've tried to plan a party and include his kids in the planning. Their lack of response to me says they don't have much interest in him. After all, the party is about him and for him. Plan without them, you tried. Send them an invitation via mail and transition them from particpants to invited guests. They know you tried to include them.

I urge caution in disengage based on my own experience. Although you may feel justified in doing so you'll be cast in the most ugly light and sometimes things escalate too far and the damage is lifelong. It's not worth it. It's like polluting, you can do it, but in the end it comes back in your water, food, etc. I can hear the booing and hissing from all you SM's lol but it's my opinion based on my experience with disengage. Disengage changed our lives in a way that I wouldn't wish on anyone.....

Hi sunny & wry -

There are so many emotions involved with being a rejected SM, and consequently, in being a hurt DH.

I will most likely receive angry posts from the SKs (and possibly the BMs) on the board for writing this - but many times our DH's feel much disappointment in the way their adult children have rejected us (especially if they have seen us work very hard at joining). Ultimately, they then begin to take the affronts personally that are directed towards us personally. When this happens, distance begins to occur between DH and his adult children and everyone gets hurt. This is not a good thing.

At this point in the journey, it usually proves best for us to "lovingly disengage" in order to give DH space to establish a different relationship with his adult children......different b/c there has been a divorce and DH's life has ultimately gone in a new direction. Life is ever-changing. Understand it and let it be.

The adult children, on the other hand, also have a new and different life to live. It is their choice if they accept their father's new direction or not. It is also their choice regarding how much contact they feel comfortable having with their father, if any at all.

Relationships are all different. Some of us enjoy 50/50 relationships (give & take) and some of us are happy with 80/20 (give & give). Our DH will need to decide this. We cannot.

To "lovingly disengage" does not mean that we stop mentioning the SKs to our DHs as if they do not exist. It does mean, however, that we continue to respectfully ask our DH when and if they would like us to invite the SKs to functions we may be planning - especially on their behalf.

We need this important feedback from our DHs. This action will not change as the years go by. Understand it and let it be.

It also means that it is not our responsibility to ask our DHs when and if they are planning to call their adult children. I think many SMs make the mistake of trying to push their DH in this area. What we actually need is for our DH to show us what type of relationship (close or not so close) they want with their adult children (how often they call, how often they get together, etc.) We can then take our lead from them - but they will always make the decisions where their adult children are concerned. Understand this and let it be.

It is reported that when men remarry, adult children tend to move away from them emotionally and towards a closer relationship with their BM (sometimes this occurs even if the BM is not mentally healthy - I know it sounds strange, but it can be very true). There is no need for us to feel threatened. Understand this and let it be.

Mothers tend to be the hub in the wheel of a family and, hence, it would be normal for the adult children to spend more time with her, especially when they become parents themselves. Because of this, we can choose to respond accordingly by not continually pushing our DHs into relationship patterns based on what we might have with our own children as mothers. They are fathers, we are mothers, we usually behave differently. Understand this and let it be.

We can be encouraging and supportive, but we need not "mother" our DHs into relationship patterns. Sometimes I believe we push our DHs toward more involvement with their adult children so as to attempt to show the SKs that we are "not wicked". However, in trying too hard, we only mess ourselves up further and exacerbate our feelings of rejection.

As far as the adult children go, their feelings towards us may never change. We may forever be "damned if we do and damned if we don't. Afterall, the adult children want a relationship with their bio-parent, not us. Understand this and let it be.

Stepping aside and allowing DH to make or break his own relationship with his adult children will not alleviate the of from being blamed for everything under the sun - but it is possible for us to live peacefully within ourselves - understanding that the men we love have to make their own decisions where their adult children are concerned. There is a huge amount of freedom in this for us if we choose to walk in it.

Everyone comes with a past and so do our DH's and their childrens' relationships together. We did not cause any of the frictions in the past and we do not need to accept any blame today for things that have accumulated over many years' time. Yes, we will be blamed anyway and that's ok. Understand it and let it be.

I pray for all of us to have the ability to heal the wounds from the past and move forward in peace and cooperation. However, if this is not to be - I pray for those of us who wish to live peacefully that we may have the chance to do so.

For the ones who enjoy keeping the pot stirred up with contention, I pray that they will be also be happy - somewhere far from me :))

I think it is just fine for the SM to step aside and let the father manage the relationship with his children. What I don't think is ok is for his wife to tell him he can not spend time with his children, that he can not give them birthday gifts, that he can not attend their graduations, school functions, etc., unless she is invited too, and that they are not allowed to set foot in his house.

Hi tos -
I totally agree with your post! However, I don't remember reading any posts from SMs here who say they have acted the way you have just described so I doubt your message is actually meant for any of us.

Please allow me to play devil's advocate for a moment here and pose a hypothetical question for you even though I have not seen any evidence of this on this message board:

There may be some DHs out there who are not willing to attend functions without their wife and who also do not show much interest in their adult children.

In a situation such as this, wouldn't it be unfair for the adult SKs and/or the BM to blame his actions totally on his new wife and treat her rudely when they are together?

Just curious as to your thoughts regarding this scenario as it would kind of be the opposite perpetrator than the one in your post.

I am new to this site and so appreciative that I am no longer in isolation! I understand the issue of disengaging and have recently chosen to do so-because as much as my heart wants to stay connected, the hurt from SK rude and inconsiderate behavior is insufferable. My father passed away recently and not one SK sent me an e-mail or spoke to me on the phone-no card, nothing. I hand wrote a note to SD new husband when his father passed away...it is unkind beyond belief. My husband is upset and wanted to send an e-mail to all of them-we discussed it several times and I decided since they have stopped calling him recently-it would most likely not have an effect. I don't want him to be hurt by them either. Their mother is the cause of ebbs of affection. I am afraid I too am resigned to disengagement.

seekingpeace,

I see this as a reflection on the parents more than a lack of acknowledgement about the loss of your father. I think parents teach their children manners. In most cases manners are with you a life time if your parents reinforced these values. If they didn't take the time to drop you an email or send a card I'd say they lack manners in social situations. Your husband should talk to them, because really it's a reflection on him.

There are fathers of adult children who believe their "raising" days are over. They don't feel it's their place any longer to treat adult children as children. What would be a good way for men such as these to approach their adult children when they see a behavior that may need work?

Notwicked,
Losing a parent is a sad life expereince we all face. A little kindness goes a long way, it's no sweat off anyone's nose to send a card..even an e-card which takes all of 5 min's. If seekingpeace is hurt by her steps not acknowledging this passing in some small way, then I feel her husband should pick up the phone and ask his children directly if they are aware of the death. If they say yes, then I would ask if there is a paticular reason why they didn't make an effort to acknowledge with a simple card or email. The conversation doesn't have to be negative, but more a direct honest open question. He created these kids, his blood flows thru their veins, he certainly can ask them WHY... at least it's communication and not retreating to distant corners to fester..

"There may be some DHs out there who are not willing to attend functions without their wife and who also do not show much interest in their adult children."

I have never actually met or even heard of a father who was not willing to attend functions without their wife - but if that were the case, the SM could just tell the children that it was his idea, that she was fine with him attending without her.

"I have never actually met or even heard of a father who was not willing to attend functions without their wife"

TOS - My Dad won't go anywhere without my SM.

organic maureen and not wicked,
Thank you- you have helped me. actually the SK are all aware of my father's death, I was in the room every time my husband informed one -by phone. After reading your posts I am afraid we (my husband & I)over-analyzed. My husband was upset that they did not follow-up with me, so he composed an e-mail telling them how disappointed he was and that was not the sense of family he raised them with.We decided to not send the e-mail(my idea) because my husband has not been receiving calls from the SKs-there is not enough communication for them to be receptive? Now I am re-thinking this.
My father took two of the SK to lunch prior to his passing and had affection for the youngest (15 yo SD). My father was MY step-father and I loved him more than I could have possibly loved my biological father. I am happy that I was able to experience being a SM (only married for 4 years, first and only marriage for me)before he passed so I could tell him how much I appreciated his love & efforts to raise me. His advice to me on how to be a good SM was "always think long-term" So this is why it hurts.
Oddly, the pattern I have noticed with the SKs is the nicer I or my husband are (husband paid big school loan for son so he would not pay interest, son pays him monthly,I sent daughter beautiful housewarming present, youngest was treated very well while visiting-they seem appropriately appreciative face-to-face but then something happens (I think the mother plays a part) and we get iced -rude behavior. Very dysfunctional, very sad. The mother and 2 daughters have OCD that manifests thru "environmental illness" and huge demands on those around them. Now that my husband is free of that home life and allowing them to treat him poorly-they may be blaming me for the changed (healthier)man they cannot relate to. I try not to worry about the future-but I dread Christmas when they are due to be with us-I am sure the mother will make a reason for them not to come.

Hi organic_maureen & TOS -

Thank you so much for your opinions regarding my post about fathers who disengage rather than SMs. Your points and advice may prove extremely helpful.

My condolences to you regarding the loss of your revered SF. It appears the two of you were very close and my heart goes out to you for your loss.

I'm happy to read that your DH did not send the "disappointment" email that he had planned and I send "kudos" to you for talking him out of it.

My DH placed a "disappointment" phone call right after Christmas last year to his DD. During the ultra-short conversation, her DH grabbed the phone and shouted "Don't call here and give my wife s**t!" and hung up.

You need to understand that my DH is a very non-confrontive & gentle person who makes a very concerted effort to carefully choose his words when communicating anything whatsoever in a negative realm. You can imagine his shock when this occurred.

Later in the evening we heard from SS that SD had called him and said that both she and her DH were "freaking out" over the incident b/c her DH had totally over-reacted by yelling and hanging up. Neither one of them called to apologize to DH or even to explain where they might have been coming from. But then again, we don't know what was going on in their lives at the time this phone call was placed - maybe they had just had a fight or the dog had thrown up on the baby - we don't know.

Your SF was a wise man in "thinking long-term". If we can hold positive & hopeful thoughts for reconciliation while going through uncomfortable situations, most of the time life turns out "for the best". Just hang on.

Anyway, I'm glad your DH listened to you and didn't send the email :))

I was encouraged by your story.My DH is also non-confrontative, and the unfortunate scenario with your SS and SD you experienced is all too likely here. I am resolved, a strategic retreat (no e-mail) sometimes is the best course to "win the war" or find peace as the case may be. One other phrase my stepfather gave me-to detach from unjustified anger coming your way is "stay mad til you get glad" meaning-if you didn't do anything to create the craziness-then let them recover on their own accord. Holding a good thought as you said, does not hurt. I so understand being blindsided by anger-I hope you and your DH are able to keep the high watch and continue to move forward until it all falls into place and the answers are revealed. My thoughts are with you.

Thank you so much for your post and endearing thoughts. I wish you peace in your situation as well.

I believe there are a good number of SMs here who truly do want to see our DHs have a good relationship with their children. And I know that when we are in the fray, it can become almost blinding to be able to put our own emotions aside and remain lovingly disengaged when we feel we are being dissed.

This message board is a wonderful opportunity where can support and encourage one another to hang in there and trust that everything will work out fine as long as we do not become aggressors.

I have not meant to ignore your response to me. I appreciate your thoughts and the time you took to share them.

Last year, DH & I did go together to do our shopping. I just had little input to offer. I tried to encourage him in the ideas he had for gifts for his children. I just backed off with respect to adding his kids to my mental list of gifts to think about. For example, a few years back, one of DH's kids & their spouse moved to a new city after the first of the year. Well, I had a friend of a friend who was a long time resident of that city. I contacted that friend & asked for restaurant recommendations. I also did some research of my own & ultimately, DH & I gave them gift certificates to about four restaurants in different parts of the city. We thought it would be a neat way to encourage them to learn their way around and visit different areas. I think they liked the gift and it was one where I invested the lion's share of time and energy to make it happen. The other thing I might mention here & where I think BMs on this site make a valid point --- while I believe DH's child valued the gift, I also think this child knew the gift was more my doing than DH's, & I think the child resented this a bit....I think the child wanted the gift from Dad to be just that, a gift from Dad (not SM, not Dad's wife). Anyway, for the past couple years, I just haven't worked that hard on gifts for his kids. I encourage him to think about gifts for them & I offer him support in his efforts to come up with something special.

With respect to his birthday party....actually, DH is not a big party person & I do not think a party is something he would value. What I thought he would treasure was time with his kids that was not diluted by some other occasion bringing them together. The gift would be time with them. I believe acknowledging his birthday is something they will do. They are actually good about that...if not with a gift or card, they will call him to wish him a happy day. I am assuming in the absence of a response from them about doing something jointly, it is their preference to acknowledge their dad's birthday in their own singular way. In that case, I will probably forego trying to plan any big shindig and simply plan some sort of special trip for DH & I to take together, some time away to a place he's never been and would find special (Ex: 10 years ago we visited the Grand Canyon. He had not seen it previously).

The disengaging thing is a tricky one. I certainly would not want anyone to experience my withdrawal as a rejection on my part...that would not be my intent. Any disengagement on my part would motivated by a desire for self-preservation. I actually TRY (no matter how difficult)not to personalize their behavior toward me. I think they would be this way with whomever their father married, because once he did remarry, any dream they had of their parents reuniting was dashed.

I discussed all this with a good friend of mine who is an ordained minister. He told me of a funeral he officiated for a woman in his church. She had been married to her husband for nearly 25 years, and one of the first sentiments expressed to her widower by his now grown children after her death was, "Well, now you can get back with Mom." For some, I think the desire for one's parents to be together forever, never goes away.

Again, Organic Maureen, thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts.

Hi wrychoice 1 -

Your post makes perfectly good sense to me as I am in the same place (loving disengagement) as you have written about yourself.

There is definitely a difference between a disengagement attitude initiated out of rejection/hurt/resentment and one in which you are understanding that DH needs to connect with his own children (and they with him) and you are supportive of all of them.

It is very true that children, whether young or adult, wish to receive time, attention, and gifts from their parent. It shows them the parent cares about them. When these things come from another person, it says the opposite, and that is what hurts them.

Like I wrote in another post, we, as women, sometimes want our DHs to act the same way we act with our children and also to show their feelings and connectiveness in the same ways. But the truth of the matter is that men are men and they usually have their own inimitable ways of connecting with their children - some, of course, do it better than others :))

Disengagement can be good if the person is coming from a loving attitude, not one of hurt/resentment or punishment. It's all about intention.

I think that when you 've given your very best to a relationship (in this case, stepmother/stepchild) and have been the continual object of double standards (that is to say, the highest expectations held for you and far less, even none for others (Bio parents), used as a scapegoat for other's abject failures as a parent, and then finally rejected on the flimsiest of grounds, the ONLY healthy solution for all concerned, including the adult stepkids is disengagement. Sunny, I applaud your decision and your courage!