Yeah - I had to deal with it.
And DS moved in with Ex.

If your Ex is more mature and reasonable than mine, he may be open to a discussion that addresses that issue head on -- "You let me do what I want or I'll go to his/her house!" It's emotional blackmail, pure and simple, and a reasonable parent won't support it.

Given that DS is putting you in that position, it would behoove you to enlist your Ex's help if at all possible. When DS stomps off, CALL HIM before DS can get over there to let him know your side of the story. Your request that DS call you is not at all unreasonable, and Ex should support your position on that. But rest assured that by now, DS has spun a much better and more involved story, and the time lag has worked against you.

Have you considered the possibility that DS is mad about your planned move (in his view, 'you deserting him?') and is acting out and stomping off to Dad's for that reason?

Well,
Hmm I am assuming your DS is a wonderful teenager-what fun!

I think honestly you should let him know he can pick up his belongings or you can drop them off at your EX's within the next few days, give DS a big hug & kiss, tell him you understand completely that he should want to live at dads right now.

Do not make it a tearful goodbye-you know he is probably having some growing pains and difficulty following moms rules right now.

I say let you Ex do the full time daddy deal for awhile and enjoy the break. My DS did this when he was 18-would have done it sooner but his BD really only expressed interest in being a dad when son turned 18. DS's eyes lit up at the thought of no rules, big mansion, luxury cars and the rock n roll lifestyle.

So I helped him pack his stuff,put him on the plane and tried my best to make it a positive experience and thne cried my eyes out all the wayhome from the airport.

I had high hopes that DS and BD would develope a decent relationship so that if anything should ever happen to me he have another parent. I really wished for him it be a good experience.

Well, it wasn't. But some good did come of it. Today years later they have a cordial relationship. They talk but keep it light. Though my DS did not see his father from age 6 months til age 18 so a bit different. I do not think they will ever be close but at least it is something. There is minimal contact between his father and I, we only speak if it is somethng rather urgent, last time was 3 yr.s ago. OK by me.

So let your DS go graciously, I suspect he is having a testosterone surge. You know what they say about the grass is always greener..of course living at Dads, no rules (he thinks-bet that's not so though) doing what he wants & coming and going as he pleases sounds great! I highly doubt any reasonable parent would allow that irregardless of how you and your ex feel about each other, it's his son, he won't let him go too nuts & this gives you a chance to decompress a little bit. Most importantly, I would let your DS know he can always talk to you no matter what. Keep the lines of communication open. I also would only speak to ExDH & SM if necessary.

It's very emotional as Moms & sons tend to be closer to each other I think..

((Hug))

~Cat

"I have made the decision to move out of town and if DS wants to go he can "

Didn't catch this. Did you make this decision BEFORE or AFTER your DS went to his fathers? If you haven't said anytihng to DS about that, I wouldn't just yet. Don't make rash decisions when you are so upset. Let the dust settle right now.

~Cat

Its never fun when Dad (and in this case SM) wont make child do homework etc. To some extent I dont think you can force visition when children get older. I would calm down, and write an email to dad addressing concerns that son isnt doing homwework, etc. I also wonder about his relationship with his SM. If dad wont address homework, etc., there is not much you can do.

What do you wonder, KK?

Unless I dont remember correctly -- OPs son SM had seperated from her DH -- and the SM has at times almost represented herself as the mom. I wonder if SM thinks she can cater to DS every wish in attempt to meld her family.

Fair enough concern, KK. I suspect you could be right, but SM will learn her lesson as soon as she is forced to say no, and if she's the custodial SM that time will come. Unfortunate thing is some 'damage' may already be done by then and it's hard to teach a new dog new tricks.

SM and ex have reconciled. Communication has not been initiated on their part since they have reconciled. I have tried to tell SM to get over it and that we need to communicate on behalf of DS whether she hates me or not. SM agrees and then I find something else that they have neglected to tell me. I have told SM (since ex has not bothered to ask any questions but sends his messenger) that I am visiting my attorney on Friday and that I will be signing over custody. I cannot keep being the bad guy continuously and having no one back me up over there. Lately ex has done nothing but be DS buddy instead of his father. I could really go into a lot of instances that would make you all tell me to run away with DS and not let ex ever see him again but DS worships the ground that ex walks on and that would only make DS hate me more at this point. My reason for moving is that I know that DS will get mad at them. He does all of the time but I do not let him hide out and avoid visitation and tell him to get over it. But I do not want this back and forth to keep going to avoid what DS needs to be doing. I think that as long as I am 5 minutes away that he will continue to play both sides. I initially decided out of frustration but I think that it is the best move for me. I will only be about a half hour drive away and I will still maintain as much visitation as I can get and DS wants. I am not forcing the issue. DS is not speaking to me and I have heard nothing since he stormed out of the house on Sunday. But instead of me always giving in, I am sticking to what I think is right this time and I do not agree with the way that DS spoke to me and has been disrespecting me lately. A lot of this has come about since ex and SM have reconciled and I am not sure what is going on over there or what has been said. I am emotionally a wreck because even though ex has maintained visitation through the years he has never been there for DS. I have been there through it all and now suddenly ex is the good parent. It is tearing me up but I see no other options at this point. After talking to SM yesterday via email, I have come to realize that she does not want DS there full time. I think that she realizes that they will actually have to parent him. I feel bad for DS because it is almost like neither one of us want him but they have created this monster and I think that it is time they deal with it themselves. And it isn't that I do not want DS at all. He is more than welcome but not in the same town as ex with no rules to be followed because he can run to ex whenever he feels like it.

If you do move away from ex that may prevent your ds from ever coming back to you because he would have to change schools. Can't you let him go live with his dad and you stay put? If he tries to come back to you let him know it is not a revolving door and he needs to make his choice and stay with it. If he comes back to you and then decides to leave again that he will have to stay at his dads.

It sounds like he will go to his dads for a while and they will turn from fun times all the time to normal life and it will not be that great anymore. Then your son will long for you and your home again when he sees the grass is not so much greener.

Let him move in with Dad for awhile. Once Dad and Stepmom have to be "parents" and not the fun time friends EOW they will start making rules and setting boundaries also. DS will learn there are going to be guidlines for him every where he goes in life. I bet any amount of money that within a few months he'll be wanting to move back in with you. I wouldn't force him to stay simply because you would both be miserable. I wouldn't advise moving away right now either. Give things time to simmer.

It sounds to me like you're making decisions based on emotion rather than logic --

- If you weren't hurt, what would you do?
- If you weren't angry, what would you do?
- What would you do if you weren't so frustrated?

You say Ex isn't being a 'parent' and that's probably true.
But right now, it doesn't sound like *you're* being the best 'parent' either.
You're dumping him on Dad and stomping off in a huff.
(And stomping off in a very dramatic way by moving!)
NOT the most stable and consistent thing to do.
NOT setting the best example for calm and rational decision making.

So SM doesn't really want him -- no surprise there.
But by your actions, you're making it look like you don't really want him either.
So what's DS going to think?
That nobody wants him.
That'll help. You think he's angry NOW?

You're probably right that the "grass is greener" school of thought is a big factor in his decision. And once he moves in with Dad, one of two things will happen -- either Dad will step up and start 'parenting' (or SM will), or Dad will continue to be "the good guy".

If Dad continues to be the buddy instead of a parent, then DS will do whatever he feels like and you will continue to be the bad guy. (So don't give up any visits -- MAKE them happen regularly, and enjoy YOUR turn being the good guy.)

If someone does begin parenting, then DS will be disapointed that his 'escape' didn't turn out the way he expected. He may begin to appreciate you and want to come 'home' then.

But then -- you've obliterated the 'home' by moving.
So there IS no more 'home'.

I am having a hard time believing that staying where I am will do anything but allow DS to continue behavior. DS knows that I am the reliable one that he can always fall back on. DS will show up on my doorstep promising to make changes and we will be right back to the way things are now in a few months when Dad is once again the buddy and I am the parent. I have been through the cycle a few times already in the last three years that I have lived so closely and that is why I feel this is my only option. I am hurt and angry but I honestly am more at peace with this decision than anything else that has gone on in the last three years since I moved back to this town. Ex makes promises to help and stand by my decisions, he parents DS accordingly but then will gradually back off until I am the only one and then acts like I am the only one with the problem. When I try to talk to ex and SM, they act like they have no clue where I would ever come up with what DS has told me he is doing at their house--it is suddenly all lies that DS has made up and come home talking about. How do I fight that? They are lying, manipulating people that DS is picking up on their behavior but I cannot just take him and move because DS will not allow that. But I do believe that no matter where I live that eventually DS will choose what is right and he knows that the way things are now is not right. I hope that what I have taught him will win over in the end.

Haven't you said before that when he goes over to X's house that he usually spends the night at a friend's house? Since you don't really have communication with X and SM and they lie to you, maybe DS is staying part-time with his friend? Maybe that's the attractive thing about the arrangement with X. I don't know. Just a thought.

They may not be lying --

I've said enough nasty things about my Ex here that when I say something nice, it should be credible. Check and see if you don't believe me. But my experience has been that wherever DS 'lives' the majority of time, that household sees the problems and the other household sees 'the perfect kid.' Really.

At first, DS lived with me. And while he was generally a nice kid, I saw some things that worried me, and as a responsible co-parent, I brought them up to Ex. (Learning problems, attitudinal difficulties.) Of course, he didn't see them at all -- or that's what he said anyway. I didn't know whether he was lying, generally clueless, or willfully blind. But he refused to support me because it didn't 'jive' with what he saw, and I was furious. Then DS moved to Dad's house.

All of a sudden, I got 'the perfect kid' -- and suddenly, I no longer had the types of problems we had before. DS was a kind, sweet, considerate and helpful kid. At my house, anyway. But very soon, Ex started to have trouble -- the same troubles I had expressed concern about. And soon SM and I were talking regularly, comparing notes and trading tips. We both realized that what we had seen were two totally different sides of DS, and that once we factored in residency, we had very similar expereinces and opinions.

Again, this 'wisdom' (if that's what it is) comes as 20-20 hindsight. I fought DS's move tooth and nail, and dragged Ex to counseling to make sure he would actually parent and cut out the 'Disneyland' carp. One thing the counsellor emphasized was that the choice needed to stick for at least one year -- NO HOPPING BACK AND FORTH because that would have DS pulling our strings and blackmailing us both for the best deal. If you send your DS to his father's house, make sure you stipulate a minimum time frame so he can't just hop back and forth.

I have an appointment tomorrow afternoon for a consultation with my attorney. I know they are not lying about DS behavior when he is at their house because they let him do whatever he wants and ex treats him more like a buddy than a son. What is there for DS to ever complain about but me wanting him to come home and do his homework when he doesn't want to??? When ex used to actually get on him about grades and doing his homework, DS never wanted to go over there but still maintained his minimum visitation because I would not let him stay away just because ex got onto him about something he should be doing. I ended up getting weeknights so ex would not have to mess with it and ex went back to being the disney parent. I know that a time frame must be set or this will not work and I will talk to my attorney about that tomorrow. But I also know that I will give in to the guilt if I live down the road and know that DS is unhappy. I think that ex will have to once again step it up but he will actually have to be home to do that and even though they have recently reconciled my ex still does exactly what he pleases. DS does run a lot to his buddies when he is there and he has been asking for a lot of extra nights there and that is part of the issue because it has gotten so bad that I almost have to fight him to come home. Ex and SM do not tell DS that he needs to go home when it is my time but like the thought that DS wants to be there all of the time. Somehow this has become a competition and I am not sure why. I tried sharing equal time with them three years ago when we moved to the same town but it wasn't long before ex admitted that I would be the better one to regain control of school issue before it got any further out of control. And, of course, I am always the one that picks up the pieces when it comes to DS so I did what I had to do to get DS back on track with school while ex became the fun one. I have not gotten much info lately about what DS is doing while ex is at work because DS thinks that I am asking because I am trying to turn DS against SM-per SM- and that I will not like what SM is allowing DS to do and put a stop to the visitation. Usually BF finds out and he tells me what is going on because DS knows I will flip out. I cannot confront DS because he sees that as a betrayal on part of BF so I see no other options but forcing parenting on ex. My biggest fear is that ex will not step up to the plate and DS will get worse. I guess then I will have to get nasty but I hate to see that for DS. Legally, I could force the issue but I do not want to have to get nasty and fight about this. At 14, DS thinks he knows what is best and he is enjoying the freedom that he has at ex's.

"At first, DS lived with me. And while he was generally a nice kid, I saw some things that worried me, and as a responsible co-parent, I brought them up to Ex. (Learning problems, attitudinal difficulties.) Of course, he didn't see them at all -- or that's what he said anyway. I didn't know whether he was lying, generally clueless, or willfully blind. But he refused to support me because it didn't 'jive' with what he saw, and I was furious. Then DS moved to Dad's house.

All of a sudden, I got 'the perfect kid' -- and suddenly, I no longer had the types of problems we had before. DS was a kind, sweet, considerate and helpful kid. At my house, anyway. But very soon, Ex started to have trouble -- the same troubles I had expressed concern about. And soon SM and I were talking regularly, comparing notes and trading tips. We both realized that what we had seen were two totally different sides of DS, and that once we factored in residency, we had very similar expereinces and opinions. "

You know I can totally relate to this..I did this myself as a child..I was a perfect angel at non custodial parents home and a rotten little thing at custodial parents home....
When my SD used to go for visits I noticed this with her as well.....She received rave reviews while visiting, a perfect little angel and I am like huh? this is a good kid dont get me wrong but she still has her "moments just like the rest of us.....
I find it interesting and wonder why this is so with children of divorce?

"why this is so with children of divorce?"

My kids have said that they were frightened of ever making their father mad, because they were afraid that if they did, he would never want to see them again.

"My kids have said that they were frightened of ever making their father mad, because they were afraid that if they did, he would never want to see them again."

That's very sad, TOS --
and that may have been the case with your Ex.

But I know in my case, DS had no such illusions. True, if he made his father mad, things could get very ugly. But now DS does it, sometimes, and can handle the fallout. And there's really no reason why he would fear my wrath -- it's pretty darn mild! ;-)

Truly, I think that sometimes the kid has 'visitor's syndrome' -- even with a parent with whom they're very close.

I am steeling myself for this and have been since DS was about 5 years old. X has been conditioning DS for coming to live with him when he's 12. It won't be all fun and games like DS thinks it will be. I have told DS that and so has X. He is too young to see the reality.

BUT, X is too deluded and thinks he can handle the full-time care of a minor. He's NEVER had to do it even when we were married. It was always me who had all the expenses when it came to DS. He has never had to leave work or stay home from work because of an illness or emergency. He has no idea what it's like to have to ask the boss to leave early or rearrange the day because of a parent/teacher conference. But he says he can "teach him to be a man". He is a great EOW dad, but it's just a fact that he hasn't had to be a full-time parent.

But, as I told DS, he only gets to make a recommendation. The JUDGE is still the one who makes the final decision, in our state. I know it will hurt, but I don't see it as a decision against me so much as he's trying to see if the grass really is greener. And I will probably cry. And I will probably feel like I'm missing something. But, really, it's no more my right to have DS than it is X's. Plus, then I get to be the "fun" parent. I get the quality, instead of quantity, time.

We also have told DS that he cannot be flipping back and forth. If he goes, he has to stay at least a semister. No getting mad and coming back and all that mess.

I'm sorry, Almoststepmom, you are going through this right now and that it's an angry thing instead of a calm decision. If I were you I would definitely impose a minimum time frame. But I know that doesn't help the hurt and rejection you must feel. No advice here; just sympathy.

My X is always saying DD is great when she is with him, of course, they dont stay togethor over the week, just occassional dinners and do weekends etc. away from school and friends. If you dont have to get child to do homework and get up for school, things go al lot easier.

And yes, my sympahty for OP.

almoststepmom, give it time, don't make decisions, see what is going to happen in few weeks.

sweeby, it will still be home if she moves. i moved several times in my life, so did X. and yet wherever we live it is DD's home. I think that even if OP moves, her home should still feel like home for her DS.

Sweeby has given wonderful advice, and she has been through this. I would read and re-read it again.

The thought that popped into my head came from this comment: "DS will show up on my doorstep promising to make changes and we will be right back to the way things are now in a few months when Dad is once again the buddy and I am the parent." This is only the case IF YOU ALLOW IT. If DS shows up invite him in to chat, have a nice dinner, tell him that you love him, and then gently remind him that he made his bed and send him back to dad's to sleep in it. If you continue to let him treat you as disposable, why shouldn't he?? Fits his needs . . . .