Sound performance of windows - choices

10 years ago

I've been reading a bit here, and i'm hoping i can get some advice/thoughts. In reading it sounds like the poster Oberon seems to have good knowledge of window performance as it pertains to sound.

Recently moved into a house built in 1994. Wood windows are single glaze, and seemingly very thin glass.

There is a highway about 0.3 miles away, and a low frequency rumble is audible i assume when trucks go by.

We've been thinking about replacing the windows with new ones both for energy efficiency and sound level improvement (and eventual reduced maintenance).

Initially the thought was to go with a vinyl replacement window with laminated glass. Then we saw the Marvin infinity windows and preferred the look of the fiberglass over vinly as it didn't have that shine to it. Vinyl windows (the ones we looked at) suffer from a cheap appearance unfortunately.

The home a higher end home, so i don't want to install something that will be out of place with the neighborhood, and from the vinyl windows we've seen (Simonton and Vytex) the fiberglass SEEMS to appear higher end (may or may not be true, or may be b/c i'm looking at the wrong vinyl windows)
While wood interior and clad exterior might be nice to have, the fiberglass marvin is really the top of the budget already, and i imagine it would go up from there.

PROBLEM is the Marvin infinity windows don't offer laminated glass option. They have an SPC glass option that offers dissimilar pane thickness. The STC is rated at 31 and the OITC 27.

Now come my questions:

1) I researched and researched, but i could not find the STC/OITC values of an older single glazed window. Anyone know the approximate values? ( i realized it depends on size and many factors)

2) The bedroom currently has some external storm windows which must have been installed for noise isolation. They don't seem particularly fitted or tight in the frame on the outside of the window, but i'm sure they are providing some benefit.
The marvin rep is very confidenct that the STC replacement window will be better than the single pane + storm window, but i've read some papers that state sometimes that isn't the case. I would be very upset if i paid a boatload of money and ended up with a noisier bedroom.

I'm in Atlanta, GA. What are some other reputable, high quality windows which may offer laminated glass? We looked at the Pella fiberglass and it doesn't look great (and if i remember they don't offer laminated glass)

Anyone have any advice, thoughts?

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Comments (8)

PRO
Windows on Washington Ltd
10 years ago
Thin single pane glass will be in the low-mid 20's.

Your Marvin rep is incorrect without knowing more that his window will outperform the single pane/storm combo.

If you are going to ditch the windows and like the Marvin, get the offset glazing but be prepared to possibly spend some money on interior storms to get to that final performance figure you might be looking for.
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jasonmolinari
Original Author
10 years ago
Thanks, that's what i figured. One issue is the windows have plantation shutters so an internal storm window can't be installed.

unfortunately i don't know that there is any way for anyone to tell me if new windows would be FOR SURE quieter than what i have (single plus storm), right?

Any thoughts on higher end vinyl windows which may have a higher STC/OITC and look better than the simonton 5500?
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In this older complex we have units like townhouses (no one above or below, buildings with 3 units) and several units have replacement windows of different types including some white vinyl frames. So though we will need to get HOA permission, I do not expect our choices to be restricted. I was just reading on Jen-Weld's website about dual pane with dissimilar glass thickness. That will probably be a good option for us. Between units the sound proofing is excellent, they did double walls with an air gap and staggered studs. But the windows are really poor, you can barely tell if the window is open or closed when kids are screaming in the pool. Regular double-pane windows are said to make little difference over single pane, from what I've read. But the dissimilar glass thickness should help. What do you mean by "insulated" glass? I'm wondering about the effect of frame material - I'm guessing that frames with better compliance (such as vinyl) would help dampen vibrations and therefore noise, over a metal frame?
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Oberon, thank you for responding. I really appreciate your input. FYI - The Andersen rep and customer service both tell me that the thickness of their lites is proprietary information. Laminated windows are a strain on the budget with a price almost twice that of standard windows, but it appears that I have no choice if I want to reduce noise. Would a triple pane window, with EVEN panes, take the place or even come close to the noise reduction of a double pane anealed/laminated window? I am wondering if it is possible to make an educated guess as to the STC/OITC that I need. Here is my story: My house, built in early 1050s, is 200-300 feet from a local 4-lane highway. The hwy has a posted speed limit of 40 MPH (plenty of cars go 50 MPH) and has lights which slow traffic down. There are bushes between us, and a neighbor's house partially blocks the hwy side. My windows are the originals and they do a minimally acceptable job of blocking the traffic noise from my sensitive ears. Most of the windows are wood, double hung, single pane, covered by storm windows that are closed all year. The den, which is the most exposed room, has a wall of single pane casement windows in steel frames. Each sash is a steel frame/grill that divides the glass into individual rectangles of approx 10" x 12". The den casements are painted shut and covered by storm windows all year. In the winter, there is a draft coming through and they are often wet from condensation. As part of a major home renovation, I am replacing all the original windows with casements and would like to reduce the noise more. Can you take an educated guess as to a minimum STC/OITC rating that I should look for? I am considering Anderson 400 Series or A series casements, and using the laminated windows in the more sensitive rooms - den and master bedroom. I am leaning strongly toward the A Series for two reasons: 1) The STC/OITC ratings of the A Series standard IGU are 27/23 vs the 400 Series 26/22. The ratings of the A Series .060 lami is 33/29 vs the 400 Series 31/27. 2) I visited my neighbor’s house and stood in front of his standard 400 Series casements to get a “feel” for the noise reduction and, while I did not pick up individual car noise, there was a non-stop whirring sound. I visited a friend who lives further down the same highway to get a feel for his 400 Series casements. The same whirring sound. There was once a discussion in this forum about an increase of sound in windows with equal lites. See http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/2586644/noisy-andersen-windows. I suspect that my friends are having exactly this problem. I am hoping that the A Series, with a different construction and a higher STC/OITC rating, will provide better noise reduction and no whirring. Oberon, other readers, please share your thoughts and experiences. Thank you.
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annkh_nd
10 years ago
I don't have any technical details - just personal experience.

My house was built in 1989. We replaced all the windows with Marvin Infinity 3 years ago. I live in North Dakota, so my priority was thermal insulation (and I much prefer the fiberglass interior to real wood, to minimize maintenance). The original windows were cheaper Marvins.

The day after the new windows were installed, my son mowed the lawn. I honestly thought it was a neighbor 2 houses away, based on the sound - I didn't know my own yard was being mowed until I actually saw my son out the window.

The difference in heat transfer has been dramatic too. Infinities are certainly expensive windows, but I think they've been well worth it. The installers were fantastic too.
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PRO
Windows on Washington Ltd
10 years ago
Lower frequency ranges (i.e. traffic noise) are a more difficult noise to cancel so keep that in mind.

Getting the windows installed properly and well sealed is priority number 1 so keep that in mind in any product you choose.

To what performance improvement and net cancellation they Infinity with the offset glazing will give you is really a case by case basis and what you are comfortable with.

This might be a situation where you try to find a room with the fewest windows and try them there and see what they net you in terms of desired performance.

I don't want to suggest that you throw money away but if you buy all the windows and expect "X" performance and don't get it, that is a more expensive and frustrating undertaking. There are not guarantees on windows for sound unless you are dealing with specific STC designated windows.
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jasonmolinari
Original Author
10 years ago
Well, given that the windows are 20 yrs old, in the next 4-6 years they'll jhave to be replaced anyhow, i just want to know i'm replacing them with the best possible STC option while i'm doing it.

Thanks for the experience Ann.

Wonder if i should give Kolbe a call, they seem to have a high STC/OITC laminated window, and wonder how they would compare price wise to the infinity. I would prefer the lower/no maintanence of the fiberglass, and cladding doesn't thrill me, as i fear it'll eventually leak and rot the wood out of sight.

I might have the Soft-lite rep come out with some samples to see if the Elements window looks better than other vinyl windows we've looked at.
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PRO
Windows on Washington Ltd
10 years ago
Kolbe will invariably be more expensive than the Infinity option. Call it a hunch based on observations.

The Elements is a nice looking window in the vinyl family.

I would also through Okna and Sunrise in there for good fodder. Some of the best looking vinyl windows in those 3.
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jasonmolinari
Original Author
10 years ago
Thanks. I don't think Okna is available here. I'll look at the Sunrise.

I may give Kolbe a call just to see how they compare price wise. I read someone here got a quote for Kolbe and Infinity and the Kolbe were actually less, that's what got me thinking about them.
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PRO
Out of the Woods Inc.- Window & Door Specialists
10 years ago
It's my understanding that the infinity with the everwood interior can be as much or more than Kolbe Ultra Clad. I did a commercial job for a trucking company that did not want the noise of the trucks to disrupt the office work. They went with Kolbe Ultra series casements with laminated glass. They were very pleased. Like you said, just see if you can get a quote in your budget.

Like mentioned above, one very important thing to keep sound out as well is to make sure the window is installed well with insulation around the window.
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Sound performance of windows - choices

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Sound performance of windows - choices

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