Hang in there Cat-

Hubby's little jokes make him sound like he is afraid of losing you, and also of finding out the truth of what the relationship needs. My guy does the same style of joking to lighten the mood when he feels insecure about us.

If you both love each other, then I think the relationship is salvageable. It's just going to take some work and it will probably be difficult for him to ask his kids to move. Glad that your doing the counseling though. Much luck.

Thanks Gerina,

I don't know. I do not think he is afraid of losing me at all. I don't know what he thinks/feels, it makes me sad to think about it..

there is no way I would go to counseling. My sis had to go to family counseling with her husband and his kids. I guess she was really blasted by her step kids and just had to sit there and take it. It didn't do a bit of good, just hurt my sister.

Well, stargazzer, she should have found a different counsellor. It's not supposed to work that way.

We will not be including the kids, they are 26 & 29, and the issue isn't so much them as it is my husbands continuous enabling of them..

I'm sure I will get blasted enough from DH, not willing to include the adult kids. They need to get one with their own lives and be grown ups.

Cat,

I hope that counseling helps him realize that he now needs to make his marriage a priority. His children are adults and should be able to stand on their own two feet instead of hanging on their daddy's back!

And I really give you tons of credit for getting your traveling nurse job in order and putting yourself first now. Good for you!

"I have begged DH to spend alone time with me for so many years that I've finally given up."

This was the first 4+ years of FDH's and my's relationship until I finally got fed up and left. Now, the main difference is that we weren't married and lived separately anyway. So it was definitely a bit easier than your situation. But he needs a wake-up call. I am not normally an advocate of separation, but in this case, you're left with no other option (except unhappiness). Would DH agree to watch g-son if you weren't there to do it? I bet you not being there would stop that dead in it's tracks. I think a separation is exactly what you need.

Good luck to you!

Hi All,
Thanks for all the responses, I really need the support right now. Just got back from my ortho & I WILL be having knee surgery early Oct. I'm so bummed. That puts off my travel job til Mid December including my recovery & physical therapy.

I wanted to cry, I thought my knee was getting better :0(

Anyway, in answer to Ashley, yes I know for a fact DH would agree to babysitting anytime no matter how much of a inconvienence to him and he would do it if I refused to participate-which I have. I have gone out with my GF's etc & left him to it.

Ugh...well more later, right now I gotta get ready & go to work..

~Cat

Ashley,
What happened after you left? Did things change, get better? Are you two back together or did you end up staying on your own? How did your FDH react?

~Cat

Cat - Well, the end result is we are making plans to get married. Yes, things got DRASTICALLY better and we have more promise than ever before!

Before we split, he would never make me a priority. I always had to take a backseat to his work, his daughter and whatever else was going on in his life. At first, I understood and happily moved aside to let him take care of all those other things, until he started to use those things against me. He used his work and his daughter to get out of doing things with me. For instance, he didn't want to go to a New Years Eve event with me so he actually ASKED his X if he could have her that night instead of just asking me to stay home with him. He used his child against me. Another time, he didn't want to attend a wedding for some coworkers of mine so he arranged to have an oil change done on his work truck at the same time that we were supposed to leave. So I attended the wedding alone.

He also refused to be involved with anything dealing with my DS. For instance, DS was playing in a baseball tournament in a town 2 hours away. Instead of telling me he didn't want to go (which would not have gone over very well with me since I was actively involved with FSD's activities) or sucking it up and going for the sake of DS, he called FSD and convinced her how boring it would be to go and then told me that she didn't want to go so I could go by myself.

After dealing with things like this that continued to escalate, I was done. I had no feelings remaining and I was pretty much numb. I told him I didn't love him anymore and he was pretty hurt. After a few days he realized that I wasn't coming back. He started being more open to talking about the things he never wanted to talk about before. He started doing some self-searching and admitting that he was doing some of the things I had said he was doing before. Funny thing was that for the previous 4 years, he hadn't listened to not one of my concerns about our relationship or his health. After we started talking openly, he acted like all of the things I was saying were new information. I told him that I've been talking to him about these things for years. But I think what it was was that he was now open to admitting he had some faults instead of being defensive and believing he was doing nothing to cause our problems.

He actually told me that he was worried that one of the reasons he didn't want to marry me was because he thought I might get fat like my mom (who has 2 different kinds of Thyroid diseases). It was pretty hypocritical for someone who hadn't worked out in over 10 years, chewed tobacco and drank a 12-pack of beer every night to suddenly be concerned about MY health when I was going to the gym 3 times a week and dieting. He started working out, eating better and being more concerned about his health instead of eating unhealthy, being lazy and expecting all of us to do the same. After years of trying to help him be healthy by example and not succeeding, he lost 30 lbs. and went down 4 shirt sizes within 3 months. He probably added 10 to 15 years back to his life. It wasn't about vanity. It was about caring about us and himself enough to be healthier and avoid expensive medical problems (that were coming on rapidly).

He started being more involved with DS. He started showing up to his games, calling to find out how certain events went, and genuinely caring for a child he had known since the child was 3. He didn't do that for me. I believe, and still do, that he genuinely recognized the damage he was causing DS with his indifference.

The biggest change was his involvement with me. He WANTED to attend things with me. He would do whatever he could to be with me and convince me that he was really going to work on things. Before he would give excuses why he couldn't go somewhere with me. It was to the point where a lot of my friends had never even met him. Now, it's expected that we will be together and he's the main attraction when we go somewhere. He's funny and charming. It's really amazing.

We would never talk about marriage before. Well, I say "we", but I mean "he". It was like a bad word to him. He was never ready to let the past go and get healing. No way would he go to counseling. He still hasn't gone, but at least he's confronting his problems now and trying to make our relationship stronger.

I fell head-over-heels in love with him all over again! I had hope again where I had lost it before! I had all those old stirrings whenever he would hold my hand or I would see his name on my cell phone. And now, a year later, I still do. Sure, we have to fight reverting back to the old ways. But at least now we know that what we have is worth fighting for.

It took him having to be without me for him to realize what I meant to him. And all of the times before, he knew I wasn't ready to leave. But this time I was. And that scared him to death.

I posted on the marriage forum also, so apologize if this is a repeat...

they just came out with this huge study yesterday on the exact same surgery I am scheduled for saying it is basically no more effective the physical therapy & pain meds after 2 yr.s
I'm cancelling my surgery and going to wait it out til it's time for the knee replacement. Interesting timing of study release it's on Reuters..I think my gut is right even though it wasn't for those reasons.

DH asked me last night if I heard anything from the travel agency which kind of hurt me that maybe he is looking forward to me leaving. It makes no sense what I'm feeling. Again he said his friends house wouldn't be available for SS's to rent til after January. I had no reply, I mean what is there left to say?

~Cat

"He seems pretty disinterested in making efforts for us to live as a couple"

well, there ya go.

Get outside your own skin & go back & read your own posts as though your sister, mother, co-worker, or friend had written them.

This guy has made incredibly crude & cruel retorts to your requests for marriage or relationship counselling, reducing your entire personality to your breasts.

One person does not a marriage make...
& you're all by yourself in there.

It may be time to trot out my old theory that men are drugs:

Men will leave relationships because they aren't getting what they want, but women stay in the same kinds of relationships because they/we "love" the person who's treating us badly, neglectfully, disrespectfully, etc.

We're addicted.

Once we sleep with a man, we get bonded to him, & where our "old" independent, single self would have knocked him silly & walked out, insulted, at bad treatment, our "new" bonded, "in love" self will beg him to treat us nicely, will believe the most transparent lies, will feel inadequate if he isn't "in love" enough with us to treat us well, will feel guilty, as though it's our own fault, if we aren't happy.

The first thing a pimp does is have sex with his new recruits;
it makes them "fall in love" with him to the extent that they'll do *anything* he wants, will tolerate any mistreatment he dishes out, will beg him to love them back.

Back up, get away from this man, & get a fresh perspective;
once you've detached yourself physically & emotionally from him for about 4 weeks, you'll be better able to see things as they really are/him as he really is.

Cat,

Not to hijack your thread, but I just had arthoscopic surgery on my knee (injured it in late April with the surgery in early July); thought my main problem was a miniscal tear but MRI showed primary issue was/is severe degenerative arthritis (I saw the same study you did. I am hoping to have the same surgery, only on my other knee I am so pleased with the results of the first one).

With my surgery, they repaired not only the miniscal tear but also cleaned out what they could of the arthritis. I was off work for the week the surgeon recommended (probably could have returned after five days) and was on crutches for about 10 days (primarily as support and to keep my leg from being tired --- probably could have done without them after seven). It was same day surgery. The physical therapist met with me in recovery and went over 3 exercises they wanted me to do at home and that was it. I went back a week after the surgery to have my stitches out (walked into the surgeon's office with no crutches and barely a limp). I met again with the surgeon a month after the procedure and that is when I asked him about the possibility of doing the same surgery on the other knee as I am so pleased with my results...I am just surprised you are being told your recovery could take 8 to 10 weeks...

With respect to your original post, I am glad I am not the only one who was appalled when your DH's response to your suggestion of couples counseling was you simply need to learn to listen and "leave your breasts out more." Talk about objectifying another human being. I agree you should go back and re-read your postings, because when I read them, I keep thinking, "OK. They had a wedding but where is the marriage?" I don't know how far down his priority list you are, but you seem below his job, his children & his grandchildren...I guess if you don't mind being at least number four in his life, you should continue to hang in there...it just doesn't seem like much of a marriage.

I do not envy you.

Hi Wry,
Thanks for writing about the surgery. Let me clarify, surgeon said I would be back to work in 2 weeks but he wouldn't sign a travel contract to start for 4-6 weeks afterwards, to be safe.

Gee that makes me re-think it. I would like to get off of the opiate pain meds completely, and can't take the N-saids at all anymore unfortunately-Boy do I miss motrin. I have a really good surgeon, he does only shoulders and knees and works witha lot of PGA players, I don't doubt his ability, just my ability to not lose my mind at home here.

A big part of me wanting to hold off is having to recover here. How is your pain level now, do you still have to take a lot of pain meds and how long before you could get back to exercise? Being able to work out is important to me as I have worked really hard to lose weight the last yr and don't want to regain.

This is so OT, sorry. But I appreciate hearing about your experience.

As far as DH's comments, yes that definately stung. I think he was trying to be funny and or find a way to joke it off. It worked as it made me feel he doesn't take it seriously and I should just go alone for me.

" I don't know how far down his priority list you are, but you seem below his job, his children & his grandchildren...I guess if you don't mind being at least number four in his life, you should continue to hang in there...it just doesn't seem like much of a marriage."

Umm, yes that would be correct, it seems to me I am about 4th on the list. I have been very sad about it for quite some time.

I think I have made that clear to him the things that have become intolerable for me, though it never changes anything. He is major stressing over money right now & miffed I haven't been able to contribute financially the past few months due to the knee issue. Though he wouldn't ever say so.

Sylvia, I think you are so right about men being drugs at times. I think back to how I was when we first got together and wonder what happened to me? When did I become such a doormat? I get disgusted with myself.

I have spent the last 3-4 years thinking after this or that happens things will get better, we will have time for us and be able to just live normally. DH will put us first after "this" crisis passes, or whatever. You know what I mean. I always though it would get better after the storm passed but it never does. There is endless drama, and his life literally revolves around the needs and wants of adult kids.

Don't get me wrong, I would always help my or DH's kids if I'm able to without going into debt myself over it and as long as it is really helping and not bailing out of the same situation over and over again.

When we had the G-son last Sat, we were in the car going to get ice cream and SS called DH & I heard DH say "No, he is fine, it's fine. No there is no problem everybodys fine." I know SS was probably asking him if I was pissed we ended up not just babysitting Fri as DH told me but then Sat and Sun too. Really we had a good time with G-son & I enjoyed myself.

What I get angry about is DH committed us for the whole weekend and told me after the fact. So we had no alone time together at all. He is well aware that this upsets me and continues to do it. I am done asking for his time and attention. Now watch, our Anniversary is in a week and a half and if DH gets home from the job I'm sure I'll have a nice night out on the town, casino etc. But once or twice a year on birthdays and anniversaries just isn't working for me anymore.

He did not come home for my 25th class reunion I had to go alone while all my former classmates had their spouses with them. But I have attended every family function, weddings, parties and reunions for him.

A few times recently when DH said he loves me I asked him "Really? What exactly do you love about me?" You know he cannot answer that. He jokes it off usually with a breast comment but the bottom line I don't think he knows and it makes him very uncomfortable when I ask him that..

It's not enough for me anymore. I DO need to re-read my posts, and think what would I say to any of you if you were posting the same things I am.

~Cat

"When did I become such a doormat? I get disgusted with myself."

You became such a doormat when you slept with him!

Would your single self have put up with a date "joking" (passive-aggression) about your breasts/body being the key to getting along with him?

& you're disgusted with yourself because that's what abused people do; they blame themselves.

& as long as they're blaming themselves, *they keep trying to "redeem" themselves*, to "correct" their inadequacies, to "solve" the problem.

which perpetuates it.

Cut bait & go fishing somewhere else (or reel in your line & do something other than fishing for a while).

Cat,

I think Sylvia offers powerful insight into some of the possible dynamics you may be experiencing. Please give her words serious consideration.

About my recovery...I have no pain at all...occasional soreness, but it is rare and mostly associated with the site of one of my incisions.

I took pain killers the day of the surgery and the two days following. I did not like how they made me feel, so I stopped as soon as possible. Now, I take 600mg of ibupropen every morning. So far, I am able to do this without damage to my stomach. By the way I take the ibupropen for discomfort in other joints (shoulder and hands). The difference I really notice in my knee is it doesn't grind. I can bend it without it crackling...it is wonderful. I haven't been able to do that in nearly 25 years!

I saw pics of the knee...there were parts of the knee that were smooth and looked like the knee is supposed to look...most of the pics showed the ragged aspects of the bone inflicted with the arthritis...my thought when I saw them was "Wow! No wonder it hurt to walk up stairs!"

I know the recent study suggests the surgery is no more effective than meds...I can only speak from my experience which is the cleaning up of the arthritis (which is nothing the anti-inflammatorys can touch)has provided relief I haven't had in years of taking OTCs to reduce inflammation.

Like I said, I've had x-rays and an MRI on knee #2, and if they suggest I'd benefit from the same procedure, I'm going for it...& I hate needles, let alone the idea of being cut on!

Remember Sylvia's words...you have support here.

Cat,

I think Sylvia offers powerful insight into some of the possible dynamics you may be experiencing. Please give her words serious consideration.

About my recovery...I have no pain at all...occasional soreness, but it is rare and mostly associated with the site of one of my incisions.

I took pain killers the day of the surgery and the two days following. I did not like how they made me feel, so I stopped as soon as possible. Now, I take 600mg of ibupropen every morning. So far, I am able to do this without damage to my stomach. By the way I take the ibupropen for discomfort in other joints (shoulder and hands). The difference I really notice in my knee is it doesn't grind. I can bend it without it crackling...it is wonderful. I haven't been able to do that in nearly 25 years!

I saw pics of the knee...there were parts of the knee that were smooth and looked like the knee is supposed to look...most of the pics showed the ragged aspects of the bone inflicted with the arthritis...my thought when I saw them was "Wow! No wonder it hurt to walk up stairs!"

I know the recent study suggests the surgery is no more effective than meds...I can only speak from my experience which is the cleaning up of the arthritis (which is nothing the anti-inflammatorys can touch)has provided relief I haven't had in years of taking OTCs to reduce inflammation.

Like I said, I've had x-rays and an MRI on knee #2, and if they suggest I'd benefit from the same procedure, I'm going for it...& I hate needles, let alone the idea of being cut on!

Remember Sylvia's words...you have support here.

Thank you Wry, Sylvia and everyone that posted.

Still thinking on the surgery. If I knew I would be able to recover in a quiet peaceful environment I would be more inclied to do it. Like I said last year when I was home recovering from surgery we had a houseful, it was loud, crazy and I ended up having a complete meltdown and crying my eyes out cause I just couldn't deal.

Maybe I could go to a hotel for a few days.