"My children and I have open communication between us whereas she's never had that with her own mother so it's hard for her to just talk." This is only a valid comment if your children are OLDER than your SD. If you haven't raised a teenager, you can't predict what YOUR kids will be like when they get to her age. (and all teenagers are different) How do you know what she had with her own mother? Has she told you or are you guessing? Lots of teens find it hard to be open or talk to their parents even though they once had a close relationship with the parent(s). One thing is for sure, she is a product of her parents and it sorely irritates me when one parent, for lack of a better term, 'fails' to do a proper job of raising a child and when the child becomes unmanageable, they ship them off to the other parent. It's bad enough when both parents are involved ongoing but when they do it after years of keeping the other parent away or even if the other parent stayed away... you don't screw it up, throw your hands up and send the kid off to go live with virtual strangers! I'd suggest counseling ASAP for this girl but unless she wants to have a good relationship with her dad (and you), it probably won't do a whole lot of good. She has to want to benefit from it and probably at this point, all she can see is 'happily ever after' with her BF. "mother has not called anymore to check on her or anything. It's like she's happy to be rid of her." again, I cannot reiterate how pissed this makes me because the bottom line is her mom created this problem. If she kept dad away and f*cked up as a single parent, then how does she have the audacity to a) use dad as a punishment. b) throw the kid away and wash her hands of it. c) dump HER problems on you (and dad after preventing him from seeing her all those years). Of course, coming from a background where a mom would do that, it doesn't surprise me that a teenage girl would only think about how BF is going to rescue her and he'll be her family and they'll life happily ever after. That's a normal teen girl fantasy but when you have no real family in your life.. it becomes more important. At this point, how you and your family treat her (embrace her or just tolerate her) will factor in to her feelings of whether she HAS a family or not. If she feels like an outsider in your home and she feels abandoned or tossed aside by her mom (which seems true from your post), then she will latch on to something else. Lots of teen girls that long for acceptance or family, will have a baby or focus on a BF (or both) to achieve what they think what they want. It doesn't usually end up what they hope for *family*, it usually ends up with them being a single teen parent or feeling used by a BF and once again, tossed aside when he moves on... because most teenage boys are not thinking 'happily ever after'. As for you stepping into any role... let DAD be primary parent. If he is gone a lot, pick a time when he is home and he should sit down with SD15 to discuss what HIS expectations are and rules/consequences. Let HIM lay down the law and you might have to be the deputy that enforces it when dad is gone, but I would suggest trying not to make the rules too strict because you are not going to change SD from who she is.. but you need boundaries to maintain order in your house. Her dad needs to tell her that she is an example to the younger kids and as long as she lives there, she has to set a good example. My first thought was dad should have told mom no, SD can't come live there but then if he was kept away for so long and BM is 'throwing out' SD, then he really didn't have much choice, it's his daughter. But, if she is going to be there, she does need to realize that there are boundaries. The tough thing is if she refuses to abide by boundaries, sending her back to mom is not an option and neither is sending her to BF's family. But, like others have mentioned here, the behavior you've described here is not unusual for a teenager. I have a great relationship with my daughter (18) but she has her moments/days where I wanna scream! Refrain from comparing her to your kids because no two of your kids will be exactly the same as teens and your SD didn't have the home life your SD has. As the adult, you have to try to be more accepting and understanding of her feelings while trying to get her to understand how you feel as well. Good luck.

Hi MidWest I'm glad you didn't take what TOS said to heart. And I'm impressed at how honest you were about your feelings towards your SD. It's hard to admit that you don't like kids, and even harder - a specific kid (I'm not saying it's a good thing to not like your SD, just that I'm glad you had the guts to say it) Anyhow, I understand your situation well. I love kids, but can sometimes find my BF's 9 yo son, A__, very frustrating. He has a wonderful big heart, and I love him to teenytiny bits, but there are days that he drives me up the wall, and then possibly across the roof and out the window on the other side, and it took me awhile to get to love him so much. So I think I have a bit of a perspective on how you feel and I will share how I have grown in the same sorts of things. "She whines, lies, hits, cries at the drop of a hat, breaks things and is generally disrespectful of everything when we are together as a family." A__ did that sort of thing too. One night that A__ wasn't there, I calmly discussed with BF that "I love having A__ around, but I'd like to talk about some of his behaviors that I don't think are acceptable. Ultimately, the decisions about A__ and his behavior are yours, but I want you to know what's a problem for me. How can we remedy this? What are you willing to do? What would you like me to do?" etc... And then we started doing what we talked about. All those sorts of behaviors are getting better every month - A__ hasn't even been sent for a time-out since before Christmas!! I urge you to talk to DH calmly, at a time when SD isn't there. Obviously you have to be tactful, and let him know that you bring this up because you want to happily include her in the family and you think the two of you need to find a way to facilitate building a good family unit. Talk to him quietly and when you're both relaxed, don't blame him for it, try not to say "she's a bad example for our child", just be clear that you want to improve things so that everyone can be happier. "so I feel for this girl so much that it hurts and makes me cry. But at the same time, she infuriates me to the point that I have to walk away or I will haul off and smack her." Look at the bright side - if you truly hated your SD and the relationship was irreparably hopeless, you wouldn't feel for her. You wouldn't cry at what a rough go she's had. You'd think "that brat deserves all the hardship life can deal her" and wouldn't care how much she's been hurt. To me, right there, that says that you can build a good relationship with her! To help form a good bond with A__, I looked at myself and the things I like, to try to find things in common with a (then) 8 year old boy who has monster ADHD. I came up with that I love science, and hockey and sci-fi/fantasy, I do judo, and I like to build things and make crafts. So I started looking for things I could do with A__ in those areas. We started going to junior hockey games (sort of like college hockey for you Americans). We watch Buffy together and are reading some of my sci-fi books from when I was a kid. I bought a whole bunch of markers and construction paper and crafty type things for he and I to make "scenes" for his dinosaurs and squids and knights etc and then he wages epic battles and tells me about them. I teach him how to escape from judo holds (I won't teach him how to put them on yet - he's not mature enough). This was a helluvalotta work, but I found things that I enjoy doing with A__ and that makes spending time with him MUCH better. We're both enjoying ourselves! He doesn't like to cook or shop or alphabetize or go for walks, so I don't involve him in those things with me (alphabetizing is a perfectly valid hobby!). I don't like to play video games or soccer, and he's cool with that, because we have lots of other fun things to do together. On days when I'm not thrilled with him, it can be hard to motivate myself to sit down at the table with him and colour a scene for him to wage an epic battle on, but I know that he'll be better behaved for the rest of the day if I do it. It's also convenient to use "if you can go without whining / if you can leave the cat alone / if you can clean up after yourself / ALL afternoon, I'll teach you a judo escape before I make supper" as motivation to be good. I really suggest finding some things you and your SD both like and making them into joint hobbies. It made a world of difference for us! When I'm at my wit's end, I just go have a quiet cup of coffee with my book or I run a bath. I say "I need alone time" and I go take it. That's the luxury of when it's not your OWN kid - you get to walk away when you have to. I often say quietly to BF on my way out of the room "Can you please calm him down while I am in the other room? I'm ready to crack" and BF does. Funnily enough, A__ has actually taken to doing it too - he was fed up with us the other day and said "I'm going to go read my book on the couch and I don't want anyone to bug me for ten minutes because I'm mad". We were impressed at that he found a quiet way to calm down and commented on it afterwards, that it was a very grown-up thing to excuse himself and calm down, instead of throw a fit. So setting a good example goes a long way! "DH does not know how to deal with her, and life with BM has no dicipline... ... How do we start to dicipline a six year old who has never really had any rules?" Oh, I sure know this one. Until A__, BF had never spent time with a kid. He has no nieces or nephews, no young cousins, no friends with kids. He feels quite overwhelmed by A__ on a regular basis. He admits it, and tries to deal with it, so I think it's OK. A__ lives at FOUR different houses (BM, her mom, us, and BF's dad) and never has any idea where he will be next. Grandma had virtually no rules for him and doesn't even make him do his homework. BM is a good mom when she bothers to be a mom, but mostly she wants everybody else to take care of A__ for her. Papa and SGM are pretty good with him, but I think maybe they're a bit too rigid and expect him to conform to what they like for him to do, rather than letting him have his own interests and ideas. So when we get him from Grandma's, he's running wild like a hellcat and won't listen to anything because he's had no rules. When we get him from Papa's, he rebels against the slightest structure because he's had too many fences while he was there. When we get him from BM, he's either sad to leave her because he rarely sees her, or he's mad at her because she was making him do chores and his bad mood stays all day. So, what we try to do... Whenever possible, we chat with him about his day in the car, then come straight home, and pop in a Buffy episode or some cartoons for a bit while he colours or something and we work out what the plan is for the day. This is good no matter where we pick him up from, because it's structured enough that he'll switch out of hellcat mode if he was at Grandma's, but he gets "free-time" during this 45 minutes or so to relax from being at BM's or Papa's... We also have family rules now that are working really well. When BF and I made them, we went through them with A__, using silly examples of "following the rules" and "not following the rules"... Like for the rule of "accept it of you don't get your way or have to share" I said "So if there's one cookie left, and we all want it, what should we do? Share it, yeah, that's right! Well, but what if I want it all for me? Can I run off with it and stuff it all in my mouth before you guys can have some too? Can I scream and yell and stamp my feet? What if Dad didn't want to share it? Could he throw it in the garbage so no one else could have any either?" Our rules have been working really well and we can just say things like "Is that respecting things like furniture and electronics so that you don't break them?" and he gets down off the back of the couch. So in response to your later question about the rules, I'd say go through them as a list, but be a little fun about it - she'll remember it better and not feel quite as imposed upon. Try to keep to no more than child's-age-plus-two for the number of rules (we have 11 rules, you should have no more than 8) and try to keep them positive (ie - "Keep your hands and feet to yourself" instead of "No hitting or kicking") I know how hard it is to have a kid you're not used to steamroll your home and way of life, but I really believe they don't mean to be steamrollers, they just don't know how to adjust. For awhile, we had to be hard@sses, and tolerate very little nonsense. We all spent a few pretty unhappy weekends, where A__ spent hours sobbing in time-out, BF and I were ready to strangle each other and I was on the brink of walking out the door, never to return. But once BF and I learned to be a united front, A__ learned that his Dad and I were now a united front, and we wanted to have him around regardless of if he was being good or bad, but that when he's good, everyone gets along and we have lots of fun, things started getting better. BF has gotten much more patient with him because he has me as support, I've gotten much more patient with him because I have BF as buffer, and he's gotten much better with us because he knows that there are rewards and consequences. We set up rewards and consequences (Like if you're nice to the cat all day, we'll have popcorn in the evening. Or if you brush your teeth and put on jammies without stalling, you get an extra 15 minutes of computer time, but if you stall, you go directly to bed.) We tried really hard to be consistent (and it was HARD, let me tell you!) and we made sure to say each reward or consequence whenever it became applicable to remind him ("The cat looks mad, it's time to let her be, or there will be no popcorn") and eventually it started working! If SD is a kid that likes stickers and charts and stuff, maybe you could set up a rewards chart? That didn't work when BM tried it with A__ (he cheated and snuck stickers on it himself) but lots of people have great success with it. Another good approach used by many moms and SMs on here is rewards for when the kids are "caught being good". The rewards range from a high-five, to picking a goodie from the surprise bag, to swimming at the public pool the next day... Whatever works for you, but when you "catch" her being good, acknowledge it. I made a HUGE scene the other day, complete with hopping up and down, cheering, hugs and kisses and high-fives because while I was in the shower and blowdrying my hair, A__ got dressed, put his pajamas in the hamper, put his juice glass in the sink, and tidied up his colouring! I was so freaking happy I almost cried! He pretended to be embarrassed by my scene, but you could tell he was really pleased that I noticed it all and made a big deal of it. "I think this girl is LOST, she needs help. She needs a home with positive attention and people who love and support her... ... She is six years old and I feel like if we don't do something to help her soon, her life will end up so much worse than if we stepped in and helped her.... ... I really feel that it is in SD's best interest to come live with us and DH agrees with me. At the same time, I have no idea how to deal with this girl.... ... How do we approach her BM with the idea of her coming to live with us? How do we approach SD with that? " I feel the same way about A__. His life is a MESS and no one but BF and I seem to think this is a problem. He's a tween now and he needs more support and stability than he has if he's going to be successful when he hits his teens. There's no way he would be coming to live with us, but we want to have him more, so that he can have more stability and support than he has right now. At the same time, I question if I'm really able to give him that support and stability. I think we are, but am quite worried about it anyways. Our life is upside-down right now because BF's home flooded, so he moved in with me, and I'll be moving to his place once it's all renovated. A__ will finally have his own room once we move back (BF's brother lived with him before, so A__ slept on the couch) and it will be a much better "home" for a little boy. BF has talked to BM about that once we're at his place again, we'd like to have A__ a little more and help him have more structure. In your case, why not start small? After this week, say "we'd like her for two weeks right when school lets out". At that point, once BM sees two successful visits, broach it then, first to BM, and then include SD in the conversation. It will be less out of the blue if SD has just spent time with you and BM won't feel as though SD has been coached if you haven't talked to her about it yet. I would suggest talking to SD about it when both Dad and BM are there (you and her stepdad are less essential to this conversation and may put even more emotional pressure on her without trying) While SD is with you, make sure SD feels like she's at her own home, not visiting yours (her own toys and space, her favourite foods in the fridge, her own brands of toiletries in the bathroom). BF was out of the country at the time of the flood, so I moved him into my place on my own. I made sure to unpack all A__'s stuff right away, and stock the bathroom and cupboards with his favourites before the first time he came over. He settled in right away and seems to have adjusted to the change really well. He even told his mom that "Ceph had all my stuff set up for me right when I got there! All my toys and toothbrush and everything! She even had up pictures of me!". I really recommend that you and DH make sure there are photos of her and her "own stuff" to make her feel like part of the family. This is a hard spot to be in... But just judging by that you sought help by posting here, I think you'll all work it out!

Agree with Mattie. And I don't really see this as your husband putting his daughter 'first' over you. Your miserable and talking divorce, he's putting the daughter up elsewhere to remove you from the situation. Obviously after living together for two years of fighting and trying to make SD be responsible isn't working. The husband's short term quick fix to the 'problem' appears to be what he thinks is best for all of you. I think what comes after the moving out is what will be of importance. How long does dad plan on paying the SD's way? Maybe once living out on her own she will begin to appreciate adulthood and step up. Nobody to cook and clean for her. Nobody to tell her when to be home or how to behave in the home. Nobody to fight with, nobody to make sure she gets up and goes to a new job. When one looks at it this way, it just might turn out to be a real fast growing up period for this SD. Talk to your husband about setting timeline goals. How long will he pay the full cost? What goals does the daughter have to reach to continue to get dad's assistance on the cost of flat? Give the SD a chance to see what she can do out there, she might just surprise you with how fast she grows up or she might fall on her face and see she needs to make some serious adjustments in her life and attitude. Let your husband try it his way, which is also good for you (she is not living in your home causing trouble)...you've been trying it your way for the last two years and nothing is changing...let dad his way now.

mollymcb....I take offense at what I believe to be harsh judgements made by people here. I read responses to other peoples situations and feel that they are judged harshly at times also. I may be reading nastiness into postings or reading between the lines, I admit that it is difficult to get an accurate reading on things at times. I wear my heart on my sleeve and tend to get my feelings hurt easily. I am very emotional at this time due to other things so although others may not consider that, I know that I can over react to little things and make mountains out of mole hills. I have not considered that my teenagers give SD30 gifts. To me that doesn't make much sense, perhaps I am way off on that as well. Yes I know that my DD is 20 but she was a teen when we married. I am not willing to discuss this with SD30. I feel that if I were to do that she would take it her grand mother, my MIL and a huge drama would ensue. I am not willing to be labeled the evil step mother. I would rather bring it here than to take it to her. If people think that I am greedy because my feelings are hurt over something like this then they do so without knowing me. I do acknowledge that there are people here that understand my point of view. I have been slighted many, many times in my life and so have my kids. I maybe just feeling sorry for myself and my kids. Having other people over look my kids is not something that I get used to. I know others don't see it that way. They seem to always be the invisible children. I just wanted to vent here as is the case with most people. What would Jesus do? He would be understanding of my feelings. He would encourage me to move past them, which I am doing. He would want me to not cause others to feel as I do. Things have escalated in another area of my life that puts the gift thing so far off that I really could care less. I have a concern for the life of DD20. She is suffering terribly with an issue explained on the parent forum. I'm not looking for attention in bringing that up I'm just letting you know that no gift matters to at this point. I may not have even posted anything about gifts if I wasn't falling apart due to her situation. It is interesting to me however that SD30 has been told about our situation and has offered no comments to me about it. Whatever....she is just not that type of person I guess. I have other things to concern myself with. I will continue to be as kind to her as always....again....I was venting.....I am try to get over it.