LV Undercab Lights - Junction Box?

12 years ago

I have wired for Undercabinet lights running 14/2 Romex from the transformer location in the basement each undercabinet location. I need to connect the romex wires (sans the ground) to the thin leads that connect to my environmental lights LED strips.

Do I need to terminate these wires together in some sort of low profile junction box/terminal connection? If so does anyone have a link to something that has a very low profile, like 1" or less to hide behind the light bar.

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Comments (10)

yosemitebill
12 years ago
Well, since this is apparently a low voltage installation, junction boxes are not required - but aesthetically make the installation look much more professional and just overall nicer looking (if you are looking up underneath somebody's cabinet).

Unless local code has some sort of unusual stipulation, you could have just run 14 gauge CL2 in-wall wiring and stapled it up, which is very easy to work with rather than 14/2 NM Romex - especially if this is with low current LED lighting.

I would just look around for some type of enclosure to hide the 14/2 NM to LED wiring connections, but if you can't find anything, it should not be a problem - unless, like I said you have some sort of usual local code that addresses low voltage under cabinet lighting.
User
12 years ago
Like this Non-metallic Splice Kit 12-14 Awg?

Here is a link that might be useful: CPGI-208169-2
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Think through your LV lighting plan and how you plan to control before you start pulling wires. My electricians made a mistake which I caught just after drywall was up - but was able to recover. For above cabinet lights I am using light ropes - which come in a variety of lengths. My sections are 3 to 4 feet long and I have one piece of light rope above each section of wall cabinets. For these, the electricians ran a daisy chanined circuit and poked through the wall just above the top of each segment of wall cabinets. There are 4 different segments: left of sink, right of sink, right of range hood and above refrig. At each of these spots - we have 14/2 wires sticking out of the wall. Since these light ropes are all very low wattage - no issue using a daisy chained circuit with 14/2 wire. For the below cabinet lights - one of the elctricians was planning the exact same type of wiring - a daisy chained 14/2 circuit sticking out just below the cabinets. I caught this during rough in and asked about where the transformer would go and shouldn't we be using the LV wire provided by the electrical supply company (sitting on the floor) that my light designer specified. He said either would work - but when I asked my light designer he said that since the run of wire around the kitchen were more than 15 feet, and since the Xenon lights drew a lot more power than the ropes, that the lighting would not be uniform. This had something to do with the voltage drop from the 14/2 wire, the number of Xenon lights, and the distance (designer did the calculations). So we wound up placing the transformer in a central location and did 4 home runs from that location to each of the 4 areas where the LV lights would be connected - using LV rated wire for each leg. Unfortunately, the butler pantry wiring (which was done by a different installer) was not done correctly and I did not catch it until after drywall was up. We have a left and right side of the pantry - with cabinets on each side. The plan was to have one transformer with 2 home runs of LV wire from that central spot to each side. Installer used 14/2 - daisy chained. Again due to the length of wire and the number of lights - the one side of the pantry would be dimmer than the other. So to fix this, I am having 2 transformers installed - one for each side - using the 14/2 wiring they put in. Then from these trnasformers - we will run LV rated wire to power the lights. Hope this helps.
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I have one of those JLOAD devices, I got it free with some other stuff in a promotion from Hubbell. I'm doubting that you are going to find a plastic box that is listed for use with BX or metal flex. What you can do, if you need both on a 2 gang plate, is to remove the current box with the coax in it, replace it with a metal box and run the bx/flex to that box and install a receptacle. Then push the coax thru a hole right next to the receptacle and cover it with a 2 gang plate. You can use anchors and screws to hold the plate to the wall above and below the coax jack, then just paint the screw heads white. I don't see what the problem is using two separate single gang plates, especially in a corner. I am also very anal, but I don't see how that wouldn't be a neat installation. If we were talking about light switches in a nice entryway it would be a different story.
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Assuming that the drawing you posted is to scale, you could install another cabinet over the sink & attach lighting to the underside of the cabinet or tucked behind a valance/ light rail on the bottom of the cabinet. Or you could build a shallow soffit bridging between the cabs--just deep enough to recess a junction box into--and drop a pendant. With white cabs, the bottom of the soffit could be painted car siding/ bead board.
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As of right now, we are not using aluminum channel but I have not ruled it out for the UCL. The light rail trim is attached to the cabinets via 3/4" stock that extends 3" from the cabinet front. If I put plain strip lighting behind that, I'd have to go back another 1-2" to keep the trim from blocking the light and I'd rather not go back that far. Inspired LED recommended placing the strip lighting on the back side of the 3/4" light rail stock so it shines back at the backsplash to eliminate dots on the granite. I had wondered about that option myself so when they brought it up I figured I'd see what it looks like. In that position no one will see the plain strip unless they stick their head under the cabinets. If I don't like that we'll most likely use the channel for the UCL. That would bring the light down about to the level of the 3/4" stock so I could butt it right behind it. It would also give a cleaner look and protect the strip. However my primary motivation is to conserve energy so I'd prefer to avoid losing a bunch of light to the channel and diffuser. We will mount the LED to an aluminum strip for better heat dissipation if we don't use the channel. Even if we used channel on everything, it would still be much less (doing it ourselves) that any of the direct wire options. I think we have a solution for the desk area. The romex stub appears to be in the same stud cavity as a light switch on the wall behind it. My husband says if he takes out the light switch junction box, he can pull the romex that's connected to the switch out and into a replacement junction box. Then we can extend to the dimming transformer above the cabinets where it will be out of sight.
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brickeyee
12 years ago
"Like this Non-metallic Splice Kit 12-14 Awg?"

Check the listing very carefully.

Many of those are only allowed in 'mobile' housing.

They are not listed for anything else.
User
12 years ago
Thought the only gotcha is whether these can be "buried",
if exposed they should be kosher(barring local amendments).

Here is a link that might be useful: http://www.contractortalk.com/f5/amp-no-junction-box-connectors-30448/
User
12 years ago

The Type NM-1 splicing device is also used with the Type NM-3-Tap device (UL listed E57250). This
combination (NM-1 and NM-3) is suitable for SURFACE MOUNTING without an outlet box in exposed cable wiring
and in EXISTING BUILDINGS/DWELLINGS where the cable is installed in accordance with and as permitted by
Article 336-21 (Nonmetallic Sheathed Cable and Devices of insulating Material- 1999 National Electrical
Code) and the Canadian Electrical Code, Part1, Section 12-522.

Here is a link that might be useful: PDF
brickeyee
12 years ago
'manufactured buildings' only.

Right under "3.2 Applications"

These devices do not appear to be listed for other use4s, exposed or not.

Article 550-10(k) right on the sheet.

They are not listed for other uses.

These devices are NOT acceptable for general use.
User
12 years ago
Don't see ONLY anywhere in that paragraph "3.2 Applications"

The second paragraph says ALSO USED which I take to allow
other applications as listed.
brickeyee
12 years ago
"Don't see ONLY anywhere in that paragraph "3.2 Applications" "

If hte listing was for other than "manufactured buildings in accordance with 1999 National Electrical Code (NEC) Article 545-13" it would say so.

Listings are always restrictive.

The device may ONLY be used in accordance with the listing, and not in any other way.

The fact it was "listed" under a specific NEC article means it can ONLY be used under that article.

"Mobile homes, manufactured homes, and mobile home parks."
Nothing else.

These are VERY cheaply built items, with a short expected lifetime.
doug_gb
12 years ago
I installed WAC under cabinet linear track lighting.

Here is a link to the junction box:

http://www.waclighting.com/USA/products/?categoryid=18&productid=143

I have five 'groups' of cabinets. Each one has a home run to the transformer. Depending on the length of your run, there could be significant voltage drop.
chrisk327
12 years ago
If you're low voltage at the point of connection, I don't believe that you need to terminate in an approved box.

I'm not an expert, but I don't see why you couldn't use any box you wanted to if you're low voltage. what we did we ran Romex 14/2 from transformer in the basement through the wall, out the sheetrock. We have a bottom on the cabinet that has space, and had the puck lights recessed into the bottom. we wirecapped the Romex to the LV lead on the pucks, and snapped the pucks in teh holes. This leaves it covered, capped, and accessable if need be. Again, this is Low voltage, not line voltage.

LV Undercab Lights - Junction Box?

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yosemitebill

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