I completely agree, and I would go further and say that it is never ok to betray a confidence that ANYONE gives you, unless there is an immediate health or safety risk.

Katheline,

I think that you have a wonderful relationship with your children (step, bio, foster).

I have a question for you, that you have probably experienced at some point.

How do you handle high school dating with your kids? And what do you say/do if they bring up having sex? We are not to that point yet, but my older sd is a freshman this year so in the next few years we may be experiencing those topics.

I agree Kathline. My SD and SS both tell me things that they wouldn't share with anyone else. Not big monumental things, but certainly things that they wouldn't share with their mother or even my husband. I keep them to myself, too. I try to help. They know that they can ask me anything and they'll get a straight answer. Their mother is also extremely high-strung and reactionary and processes everything through the lens of the "church" that they belong to. (...which I feel is more of a cult, but that's another story...LOL) I'm know that it's tiresome for the kids to hear those sorts of things ALL OF THE TIME.

...and I wouldn't dream of snooping in their rooms...

I agree with pretty much everything you said, Kathline.

The only time I would ever search a room or some other violation of that sort would be if I felt my child (probably teen at that point) was in danger--ie, doing drugs, etc.

I would hope that my relationship with my DD, and hopefully, my STBSS too will be open and honest---and it would never get to that point.

My FSD is sneaky and manipulative. Her parents have given her an amount of privacy that I don't agree with since she has shown that she doesn't mind lying and manipulating. If she's on the up-and-up about something, she doesn't care if she's texting in front of me. But when she was telling her mom that she wasn't having a good time with me, even though I was paying for her a pedicure at that very moment, she was really quick to turn the phone away when texting and then hide it in her pocket when she's done. Hmmmmm......and she takes the phone everywhere with her. She takes it to the restroom and even sleeps with it under her pillow. These are the actions of guilty people.

I agree that children deserve privacy. But only if they are mature enough to handle it. Some children are and some (like my FSD) see it as their opportunity to do something deceitful. I would never go through DS's e-mails to his dad or listen to his phone calls. He isn't sneaky. FSD, on the other hand, IS sneaky and calls her mom so they can manipulate us together. We almost HAVE to listen to phone calls and read e-mails. Before they told us they were moving, FDH read an e-mail from BM to FSD talking all about the house hthey bought and blah, blah, blah. If she was my kid, I would have told her a long time ago that she has proved to be not ready for privacy and if she can prove that she is, we'll start giving some back little-by-little. Now, it's too late because she's a teen.

Ashley, I think everyone is entitled to privacy. Your example as to being sneaky (the mom moving) is an issue between the mom and the Dad. Why is Dad reading emails from SD to her mom? If that happened to me, I would be private too (which you call sneaky). Your FDH should work out isseus with the mom and not involve the child. Another child I feel sorry for.

The example of the pedicure doesn't seem deceitful. Just poor manners, but again, it is her privacy so maybe not even poor manners. I don't think it is nice to say she isn't having a good time, but who knows? Maybe she doesn't like her privacy invaded.

And I don't see how BM emailing SD about moving has anything to do with SD being sneaky.

Sounds like a breakdown between the bioparents but the step is being blamed.

unless there is a death and life situation or something dangerous, it is never OK to violate anyone's privacy. Or share a secret.

ashley, your example is nothing to do with being sneaky. what i share with my mother is no one's business. call it sneaky. if she was not having a good time, it was within her rights privatelly tell it to her mother. that's her mother. it is between them. maybe she choose the wrong time for sharing. but how would you even know what she texted or emailed to her mother? i have no clue what DD ever texted to anyone.

and under no circusmtnaces should your FDH read emails that BM writes to her daughter. i would be very upset if my exDH read what I privatelly email or text to our daughter. And if he shared it with his wife (or a girlfiend that is even worse) neither me nor DD would ever trust him again. of cours eone has to be sneaky under surveilance.

"The example of the pedicure doesn't seem deceitful. Just poor manners, but again, it is her privacy so maybe not even poor manners."

The text messages to her mother may be private, but it IS deceitful when a child lies to one or both people to manipulate them into giving her something. When someone is nice to you in your face to get something and says terrible things about you behind your back, they are deceiving you.

and to do it while you are doing the nice thing is worse. It's a slap in the face to the person that is spending their time and money to do something nice and the person chooses that particular time to text mean things about you (or call and tell someone). It is sneaky if you have to turn and hide the cell phone to keep the person from seeing that you are writing nasty things about them. Again, I agree it's a private conversation but it doesn't make it okay to be two faced. It's very hurtful when you go out of your way to be nice and the other person says nasty things about you.

The best example I can think of is a guy that takes out a girl on a date and calls his best friend during the date to tell him how boring (or whatever else he thinks is wrong with her) but continues the date hoping to get sex with absolutely no sincere feelings for her at all. I would say that is more than just poor manners.

I don't see how those examples compare.

It's hard to say, but if someone feels a certain way, I do not think it is deceitful to say it. Certainly she did not say it to Ashley, but again, you do not know how the step felt, her views on it or how she felt about going.

Not knowing any of that, it is known that her privacy was invaded...

Hmmmmmm.......let's see.......what do I answer first? Hmmmmm........how about let's start with KKNY:

"Ashley, I think everyone is entitled to privacy. Your example as to being sneaky (the mom moving) is an issue between the mom and the Dad. Why is Dad reading emails from SD to her mom? If that happened to me, I would be private too (which you call sneaky). Your FDH should work out isseus with the mom and not involve the child. Another child I feel sorry for."

I really don't care that you feel sorry for FSD. BM and FSD were conspiring together to NOT tell us they were moving. BM told FSD that she had better not tell us when they were moving because then he would take her to court and not let her be with her mom. One night, after seeing a movie, on a Sunday, we went by a local municipal court to drop off payment for a speeding ticket FDH had gotten a couple weeks back. FDH got a furious call from BM that same night after we dropped off FSD, grilling him on why we went to court. It was a Sunday night, for Heaven's sake! So, yeah, FDH reads the e-mails. It's for protection and any of you would do that, too, if someone was trying to take your kid away. And, who said that he HADN'T been dealing with BM on this? He has and will continue to. HE is not the one that involved FSD. SHE is. And she does it to make FDH back down.

Who's next....OH that would be FD!

"ashley, your example is nothing to do with being sneaky. what i share with my mother is no one's business. call it sneaky. if she was not having a good time, it was within her rights privatelly tell it to her mother. that's her mother. it is between them. maybe she choose the wrong time for sharing. but how would you even know what she texted or emailed to her mother? i have no clue what DD ever texted to anyone."

It IS her right to privately tell her mother what she wants. But, really? While I'm standing right next to her? I was asking FSD a question and when I looked over I saw her phone. I don't read her texts. I don't care what she says about me when I'm not there. But she could at least be gracious when I'm standing right there. Yes, it IS sneaky. If she's telling me she's having fun and WANTS a pedicure, and then turning around and telling her mom she's not having fun, that's sneaky. She's lying to one of us. She's placating her mom because the day before we went to an amusement park and she had (and I quote) "the best day of my life". So BM gets mad and calls FDH crying saying that she misses FSD so much and blah, blah, blah. BM made FSD feel guilty for having a good time with me so FSD had to have a bad time with me to make her mom feel better. That's sneaky.

"and under no circusmtnaces should your FDH read emails that BM writes to her daughter"

If someone was trying to do what I described above, hell yeah you'd be all up in their business. No one wants their kid taken away.

Ashley, that really doesn't sound sneaky. In fact, I'd bet she WAS having a good time with you :)

Sounds like stepdaughter is bearing the brunt of an emotionally immature Mom and being emotionally immature herself (which is her right as a child, still) that was her way of dealing with it.

So many times the kids are being blamed for reacting to their bioparents issues. It really is a shame.

Ashley, I don't understand. If you don't read her texts, how do you know what she texted her mom? Did you just happen to see it on her phone, kind of like she half-wanted you to read it? I don't know about all types of cell phones, but on mine & on most I've seen, the print is pretty tiny. So it sounds like you were either straining to read it or she was straining to make sure you saw it.

Either way, it indicates, yes, that there is something amiss in the relationship between you two that isn't being addressed directly. I wouldn't say that it makes you a demon for reading her texts nor that it makes FSD one for not enjoying the day. She may be being somewhat immature about how she's handling her displeasure, but she's young and that's not unheard of. It's also not near as bad as it could be. She could be insulting you to your face, loudly refusing to even be in the same room with you, or acting out in destructive ways like cutting class, shoplifting, etc. You may not be her favorite person right now (and that is also normal per the circumstances) but she wasn't calling you names or being openly rude or hostile. I tend to agree that the under-the-radar stuff can be just as bad (if not worse) than outright hostility, but on the other hand people (especially kids) are often punished for expressing their feelings openly and honestly when these feelings are less than picture-perfect positivity, or otherwise unacceptable to their parents. So they learn to hold them in to a large extent, but they also ---like everyoen else--- need ways to 'vent'. So, one person's "sneaky and manipulative" is another person's "polite and tactful". I'm not personally saying it's one or the other, just pointing out the different ways the behavior could be viewed.

I can see your frustration because you KNOW that there is in all probability something negatively unpleasant under the surface, but bear in mind that FSD may not know of a better or safer way to 'feel' her feelings.

Ashley, you may dislike the mom, and find traits of hers you dont like, but when you call the child sneaky, I think you have overstepped. You justify reading emails with it being an issue of taking child away, but then to call the child sneaky. I think this is now the pot calling the kettle black, and as Nivea said, she is a child.

And by the way, if my DD told me she went with her Dad to a courthouse on a Sunday night, I would want to know why.

"And by the way, if my DD told me she went with her Dad to a courthouse on a Sunday night, I would want to know why."

and unless it is for your daughter, it would be none of your business. If you are summoned to appear in court for something, then it becomes your business.

The dad could be going to the courthouse for any reason, it doesn't make it his ex's business. What about HIS privacy!!!

And Ima, if you dont like it call a mother sneaky or intrusive. Dont call the child sneaky. That is what Ashley is doing. And if my X were to take the child with him to a courthouse, I think it is my concern (but he wouldnt do that).

well a mother that is sneaky and/or intrusive, teaches her children to be the same.

If your daughter went to her dad's and spent the day with her dad's SO, having a great time and found she really liked her, and you called and said, 'what are you doing?', she'd probably tell you she was having a terrible time, didn't like her dad's SO and whatever else you wanted to hear. It's sad when kids are made to feel that way. If she texted you those things while her dad's GF is sitting right there, then yes it is being dishonest to the GF or you. It can be hurtful to be the one that is lied to. It would be questionable whether she is lying to you or her, but either way, she would be lying. I don't think that's something that should be excused. It's never good to teach your kids that it's okay to lie, or do you think it is okay?

I go to the courthouse all the time. I take SD with me often and I might even be filing papers against her mom for her dad. She isn't allowed to read the papers I am filing. I don't tell her what I'm doing there and it's none of her business and it's none of her mom's business. Simply going to a courthouse does not make it your business. Do you ask her what groceries they buy if they take her to the grocery store? Do you think it's your business to know everything they do, everywhere they might take her? That's beyond intrusive.

Ima, you go to the courthouse because it is part of your work. I still wouldnt want my DD going there. For most people a courthouse is not the same as a grocery store. Regardless of what you think of what the mom is teaching, its not right to take it out on the child.

You know that little poem about not writing what you can't take back?
"The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
Moves on: nor all your Piety nor Wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
Nor all your Tears wash out a Word of it"

So, IMO, Ashley doesn't need to be reading her FSD's text messages, BUT FSD shouldn't be texting something like that. If she wants to badmouth their pedicures, it can be after she's back at Mom's house and it can be with her MOUTH, not her thumbs. It's simply disrespectful to trashtext someone in their presence, even though she has a right to privacy in her text messaging.

As for kids learning to be sneaky... FDH describes BM as "schemey". She can scheme all she wants in her personal life and it's none of our business. But when A__ is exhibiting "schemey" behavior, I think it's our responsibility to pry into WHY he's scheming and get to the bottom of it to prevent future scheming.
Always having an ulterior motive is NOT an attractive trait and we have had to invade his privacy a time or two to find out what he's up to. Ie - call BM or GM back to find out what she really said on the phone to A__. We don't say "What did you and A__ talk about?" We are specific and say "A__ says you told him yaddayaddayadda. Is that correct? OK, thank you."

Making an observation about a child being 'sneaky' is not 'taking it out on the child' because the parent taught him/her to be that way.

When someone does something that is mean or two faced and you call them on it, say Ashley tells SD 'if that's how you feel about me, then I won't be taking you to get a pedicure again' might be seen as 'taking it out on the child' but then again, it is also natural consequences. If someone is saying that I am boring or mean, then I can choose not to spend my time or money to try to entertain them, just so I can be called boring or mean. Kids need to learn that there are consequences to the choices they make in life. I do think it's the parent's fault if they put their child in the position to make those choices, but the child still needs to know that there are consequences.

Hey Imamommy, I don't see how what Ashley's stepdaughter did was mean or two-faced if those were truly her feelings. Everyone has a right to their feelings, even when it hurts someone else's feelings.

And it also goes back to intruding on someone's privacy. Do you really want to read someone's diary to know what they think about you?

I think it is something different entirely to teach children not to text or talk on their cells while spending quality time with others. IMO, that is the rudest part that Ashley posted. Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but I put my cell away at appropriate times and I expect others to do so while I'm spending my time with them.

Thank you Ima and Ceph. I'm glad someone has someone has some sense here. Serenity - Thank you so much for your kind and not-demeaning advice. I will take it to heart.

Ima hit the nail on the head. People that lie, scheme and manipulate teach it to their children. Sure, BM isn't my favorite person, but she's done very little to me personally. Usually she's lying, scheming and manipulating FDH and it happens to effect DS and me. Look, SHE cheated, SHE lied, SHE moved herself and her daughter in with another man and SHE divorced FDH. Obviously she's a liar and a schemer and a manipulator. And yes, she has taught her daughter how to get what she wants from FDH. Is that so far-fetched? Pseudo's SD's BM does the same things! No, FSD isn't angry and hateful, and yes, I'm thankful for that. But that doesn't make it right. She lies all the time. She has been caught in them. She calls BM and has BM lie for her. And BM will do it. So that's not sneaky? Yes it is.

As far as going to the "courthouse", it wasn't a "courthouse". KKNY, you are over-dramatizing the situation (as usual). I never said it was a "courthouse". This town only has like 500 people in it. The "court" I mentioned above is a drop box is in a strip mall. It's not like we paraded her through the Supreme Court, like you make it sound. The only reason FSD even knew what we were doing was because FDH told her that we were going to go to the movies, drop a payment off at the court and then take her home. We wouldn't have disclosed it if it was private. Plus, for all she knows we could've been going to one of the other 4 places in the strip mall. No, it's none of BM's business why we went there.

And just to be clear, I WAS NOT THE ONE READING THE E-MAILS. FDH was and it's his child and he has the right. BM reads FSD's e-mails and even deletes the ones I send her. So, how about that privacy?????

As far as her spending time with me, she loves it. We go shopping and stuff all the time. But BM makes her feel disloyal if she says that she's having a good time with me. That part I understand. But, as Ceph pointed out, she could've waited until a more appropriate time. I wasn't "reading her texts". I did see it though. She has one of those phones where the whole phone is the screen and the key pad slides out. So it's not tiny print. It's the same as the print I'm looking at on my computer screen. Maybe she did want me to see it. Maybe that's why she chose to respond then and not later when she was away from me.

If he wants to file papers changing visitation because she's moving out of state, that's FDH's business and he has every right. Yes, BM was manipulating FSD and, in turn, FSD was manipulating FDH so they could get their way.

"Hey Imamommy, I don't see how what Ashley's stepdaughter did was mean or two-faced if those were truly her feelings. Everyone has a right to their feelings, even when it hurts someone else's feelings."

I could agree with you if she had told Ashley, 'I really don't want to get a pedicure. Can you please take me home.' and if Ashley said, 'no, you have to stay here with me.' THEN I could understand her complaining about it. She led Ashley to think she was having a good time, then with Ashley right there, texts her mom to say she's having a bad time. She's lying to one of them. It's two faced.

I don't see that she was being honest about her feelings. She can't tell Ashley it's fun and tell her mom it's not fun without lying to one of them.

Ashley, you referred to it as a Municipal Court. Most people would consider that a courthouse. Taking her to Supreme Court wouldnt bother me - I dont think they are open and night and I dont think get drunks and druggies showing up. When you gave the story the first time, it wasnt a drop box in a strip mall, it was the Municipal Court. But that happens all the time here -- someone writes something, and then gives the relevan details later.

"But that happens all the time here -- someone writes something, and then gives the relevan details later."

That's only because you make a big deal out of the most inconsequential things! It's not "relevant" to know it was a drop box in a strip mall. It wouldn't matter what kind of a court it was. The POINT was that we were dropping something off at a court THAT WASN'T OPEN. We didn't take her to court with us. She didn't get out of the car.

You just want to be argumentative. I don't mind getting good, solid well-meant advice. But I'm not on here to argue. Kathline asked for a POV. I gave it. Serenity gave me some good advice that I am very greatful for. Nivea may have disagreed, but she wasn't hateful about it and I certainly appreciate her POV and being an SD herself.

"I could agree with you if she had told Ashley, 'I really don't want to get a pedicure. Can you please take me home.' and if Ashley said, 'no, you have to stay here with me.' THEN I could understand her complaining about it. She led Ashley to think she was having a good time, then with Ashley right there, texts her mom to say she's having a bad time. She's lying to one of them. It's two faced.

I don't see that she was being honest about her feelings. She can't tell Ashley it's fun and tell her mom it's not fun without lying to one of them."

I agree. It's not an acceptable way to behave and IMO it's pretty darn rude. Yes, SD is entitled to her feelings but she needs to learn to express them in a constructive and appropriate way. Manipulating people and lying is not the right way to express one's feelings. Ima is correct, if Ashley's FSD was accepting the pedicure and enjoying herself, but then texting BM that she was having a bad time---that's manipulation. More than likely, this girl is used to her mom giving her a big reaction and causing drama. My STBSS does the same things. It's like he gets some sense of satisfaction or security in knowing that everyone is all up in arms--particularly his mother--over something he's said.

It's not okay for children, whether they have two bio parents living together or not, to play adults against one another. It sounds to me like that's what Ashley's FSD was doing in this particular situation.

I love the quote "you can't help how you feel but you can help what you do about it."

As far as the pedicure thing goes, she ASKED me to take her before she even got on the plane. I'm sorry for not providing the "relevant" detail sooner. I just assumed that you all didn't think I put a leash and a collar on my FSD and dragged her down to the torture chamber known as the local salon to get a beating known as a spa pedicure. I don't know why anyone would assume she wouldn't want to go get a pedicure. Who gets a pedicure forced on them against their will? Give me a break! BUT, I'm SM so I MUST'VE forced it on here cuz why in the hell would she actually WANT to get a pedicure with me??????

Look, I'm all for telling the truth. I'm all for keeping things on the up-and-up. Last Fall, I asked FSD if she wanted to go get pedicures. She said she couldn't because her mom had asked her the day before if she wanted one and she had said no. I totally respected that and told FSD that I was really glad she told me that up front. That was 9 months ago. FSD is the one that asked this time. Not me. I left that up to her. I don't know what happened between that time, but she was lying to one of us.

From my understanding is that SD likes spending time with Ashley and they have a good time together, from what she posted.

In the circumstance that Ashley posted is that SD was under pressure from Mom about having a good time.

I don't think the situation is ideal, but I don't think the child is sneaky for reacting to an emotionally immature bio parent.

Instead of giving justification for further intruding on her privacy by stating she is sneaky, I would think finding a way that this child can openly and calmly state her feelings and made to feel ok about it would be a better way to approach her. Rather than calling her sneaky and deceitful.

Hey Ashley, I'm willing to lay odds that your SD is lying to her Mom.

It doesn't make it right or correct or anything like that I know.

But imagine being torn and trying to give the right answers and keep the peace and actually, probably "parenting" your own parent.

And then, protecting your feelings in all this. Sad to say, she probably never wanted you to see that text, but that was probably the easiest and less damning way to keep the peace for her. Just tell Mom not having a good time and that's that.

What is deceitful in here? it might not be nice, but deceitful? if I was invited to a party and was having bad time, what is decietful if I emailed, texted or called and told my mother that i am having a bad time? if someone else paid for the party or whatever it does not mean I am obligated to enjoy my time. I am free to privatelly share wiht my mother whatever I want. and if someone wants to snoop and read what I typed to her then how is it less sneaky or less rude? and if I really did have a good time but was pressured by someone else to say otherwise then how could people know? i just don't understand how one gets to read other people's texts and emails. i have never read anyone's. so maybe people dislike my company but I have no ways of knowing it because I don't snoop. lol People set themselves up for dissapointments if they start snooping. and frankly kids often say things just to stir the pot or get what they want. so that's why to save yourself a headache, it is wise not to snoop and let them say privatelly what they want.

just to add that kids in split families are often so torn between bioparents, stepparents and whoever else is getting involved that they do not know know what to do and what to say. unfortunatelly adults do not know how to handle divorce with as less damage as possible and then blame children when they act confused. divorce is tough on kids at any age and unfortunatelly kids are the ones to pay the price.

"What is deceitful in here? it might not be nice, but deceitful?"

FD - lying IS deceit. Her lying to BM or myself is deceiving one of us. Going to a party is not the same thing. Did you ask the person to throw the party and spend their money and then bad-mouth it? She ASKED me if we could go get pedis when she got here. I said "SURE!" just grateful that she wanted to do something personally with me. It's hurtful what she said. I'm only human. It was an accident that I saw it. I wish I hadn't because it hurt me.

Nivea - You are so right! I know that I'm the lesser of two evils. That's why I don't say anything and just let it happen. The problem is that now that she's learned to do this, she does it with everyone now. BM taught her that deceiving someone, even to protect their feelings is okay. She's not mature enough to differentiate between protecting someone's feelings and getting what she wants.

Sorry, Kathline, I didn't mean for your thread to get hijacked. I really hate it when that happens.

she is a kid torn between SM, BM and BD and everyone else. she wants to please everyone and does not know how. and once again sorry you accidentally saw it, but as my wise grandma used to say: if you don't want to see something nasty, don't look. I know it is upsetting.

My bestfriend accidentally read her grown son's message addressed to his friend (they used each other's cell phone so it popped up accidentally). It said somehting like "my mother F..s my brain with her stupid questions, i wish she f..s off". lol he is a nice young man, who knows why he says this stuff? But what could she do? she was furious but that's his private thoughts. and how many times I told my mom that dad drives me nuts and it does not matter that he paid for something, he still drives me nuts at times. lol But i say it privatelly to mom or brother, not to him. and hey who else would we say things if not mothers? it could be rude to say that dad drives me crazy is not very nice but it is my mom i am saying it.

I have refrained from posting on Ashley's situation, because I truly do believe that its none of my business if someone doesnt agree with me on the privacy thing.

Ashley, i think you are doing the very best job you can to try to be good support to your boyfriend. I just would like to throw out something for you to think about, that maybe you havent stopped to consider.

Its very understandable that you feel anger and frustration. You love your FDH. His former wife plays mental games with the daughter, and demands that the daughter please only her. Any loyalty from the daughter to your husband is considered betrayal by mom, and most likely reacted to very negatively. This is not an uncommon thing. My husband's ex reacts in very much the same way The kids are not allowed to express anything positive about what they have done at our home, they are not allowed to have pictures of us at their moms house, and their mother gets angry if they say they enjoy being with us. I have witnessed her have a total meltdown on more than one occasions for small things, such as the boy saying our trip to the zoo was the "bestest time" ever.

So, I do understand what you are feeling. I would caution you , however, that you dont start attributing the mothers problem onto the daughter. Your FSD is really in a very hard place. She is torn between two families, and she has to reassure her mother that she is totally devoted to her, by denigrating her time with you. Your FSD is doing that for survival.

Your FSD is not deceitful nor manipulative. SHe is a normal 13 year old girl caught up having to parent her parent. Its abusive parenting on her mothers part, but its also possible her mother may have a personality disorder that causes it. Blaming your stepdaughter for doing what she has to do to protect herself, is going to drive FSD away from her father, and closer to her mother. Kids who are caught in your stepdaughtes situation, do not need to be accused of the negative attributes that basically are being pushed by the other parent.

Think back to when you were 13. At 13, you do not have the life knowledge to know how to handle a situation where someone you love, and in your SD's case, someone you live with, is being bullying and unreasonable. You cave. Thats what 13 year olds do. They dont want to displease the person who they live with, because that person can, and probably will, make life very unpleasant for them if they do.

Cut the girl some slack. She isnt a bad kid. And you arent a bad stepmom. You care. But you also are pretty young to have a 13 year old to care for, and you havent had the wonderful experience of having raised other teens to help you know what to do either. Cut yourself some slack as well.

Now, as for the reading of her emails and text messages, I stand by my ascertation that that is the wrong thing to do. A teen in particular, will be closer to you , respect you more, and most importantly, TRUST you more, if you dont snoop in their things. I strongly suspect that FSD does not have privacy in her mothers home. Needy parents rarely give their children real freedom.

The number one quality that parents, both bio and step, need to develop with their teens is trust. Without trust, you will find yourself shut out of all the major decisions in a kids life as they get older. Teeens turn to their parents for advice ONLY when they feel respected, and when they trust their parents. I implore you, be very careful not to destroy the girls trust in you, and talk to your FDH about it as well.

I want to throw a few of your own comments back at you, not to be in your face, but maybe to get you to think down a different line.

these were your words in a previous topic...

Then, I was checking my e-mail and she comes and stares over my shoulder. I was on this site and I don't want her to know about it cuz I don't want her BM to start anything. So I said "excuse me" she says "what" I said "you have no business reading over my shoulder. How would you like it if I did that to you while you were texting?" and she says "I'm just standing here........geez" So then the next day we're at the salon and she's testing her mom. She'd type the message really fast and then close the phone and put it in her pocket. The only way I knew it was her mom nwas because I happened to glance in that direction and see "Mommy" on her screen. It's just so hypocritical. I believe that no one under the age of 18 is entitled to privacy. It's GIVEN as a privilage. Me, on the other hand, I work hard for my things and am entitled to have them to myself.

Your demandind privacy for yourself, while being unwilling to extend the same privacy to your SD is a big trust killer, and verges on hypocricy. Teens are very very good at picking out hypocrites. Also, it seems from this instance described above, that you did not see the message at the salon, so I assume you checked her text message folder when you got her phone later, to see what she was saying at the salon.

Its really not your business, and it only upsets you.

In another post, you talked about how upset your FDH was because he had read an email to your FSD from her aunt, where aunt made a comment about mom and dad ( Moms new husband). What on earth was your FDH doing reading his daughters email from her aunt?

You and your FDH are destroying her trust by snooping , when its not a safety or health issue, its just to satisfy your curiousity about the girls relationship with her mom and whatever crap mom is saying. At the same time, you demand that she respect your rights. The older she gets, the harder this is going to be.

Again, I am not saying any of this to be mean, just to give you something to think about.

In closing, I am going to post one more comment of yours, that pretty well says it all. I wonder if you can take your own advice...

You said...

Okay.......so what happened to teaching our kids by example? We can't control what lessons their other parents teach them.

and...

Kids get conflicting information. Do as I say; not as I do. We tell thim with our words, but we tell them even more with our actions.

I agree :)

I think it might be a good idea to start a thread for the high school dating topic. I strongly suspect a lot of people here have some thoughts on it.

Thank you all for your advice! Kathline - you are so right....I do love FSD and have tried very hard only to have my heart broken over and over again. I think she loves me, too.

The text itself was not the subject of the post above. I did see the text at the salon. But that wasn't important in the post above. The point of the post above was how she was ACTING secretive. I wasn't acting secretive on the computer. Sure, I didn't want her to see the site. But I didn't close it down. I just asked her how she would like it if I did that to her.

I am going to say this......I am not a hypocrite. I was open and trusting from the start. SHE changed the game. Maybe unknowingly and unwittingly, but it changed. Last September. So now I have to be guarded. So I guess that makes me a bad person because I got burned? I tried to lead by example, but all it got me was slammed by BM. Sorry.....guess that's how it has to be right now. Since then, she has all the privacy she wants. I surely did not intend on seeing what she wrote. What FDH does is his business.

Also, I'm pretty sure the above sentences were referring to bio children. As a SM, I'm not responsible for the raising of FSD (as has been said by others).

FDH has the right to know that his DD is moving. And FSD chose to lie. She's 13. She knows what a lie is. And she doesn't like it when it's done to her.

ashley, I do not know how old are your own children but just wait when your own kids turn 13. show me one 13-year-old (especially girls) who do not give their parents major grief over something, if it is not lying then it is doing poorly at school or chasing members of opposite sex or expermenting with somehting. I thought it was the end of the world and I would never see light at the end of the tunnel, ha, it shall pass...they won't be 13 forever.

and here we have a kid who is manipulated by adults. of course she lies. maybe her mom tells her to lie (about moving for example) or maybe she lies because she does not trust anyone. as every child of divorce she is in a way a victim of parental decisions and behavior. i would look at it this way.

I agree with what Kathline has said. I will trust my kids UNTILL they give me reason not to and I feel they are endangearing themselves(drugs,promiscuous sex, skipping class..etc.)Then the privacy priveledge will be taken away. Parents are first and foremost parents. I want to be friend as well but that is only second to parent.

My kids will NEVER have a computer in their rooms though. Period. Experts say that family computers should be in a high traffic area so the chances of kids getting involved with dangerous internet activities are limited. My kids will NOT have a web cam on a computer that is in their bedrooms. There are too many teen-webcam horror stories and child predators are out there lurking. Why take a chance? If you have teen boys it'll cut down on the Porn factor as well....and yes, they will look at it if the computer is in their rooms.

they would look at it even if computers are in a living room, don't you think? Like when you are not home or are in the kitchen? I agree that what experts suggest but don't you think kids get around it (like go to their friends).

DD has a girlfriend whose mom and stepdad watched her every step. I alaays felt how lenient I and X were compare to them. They oversaw her internet activities, read her texts, emails, listen to phone calls (pretty much what people on this forum say they do) etc. she was very inventful though and found her ways, used drugs, was very promiscious and had awful relationship with her parents. hates her stepfather and avoids her mother.

But now when she is in college she does much better. she rarely sees her parents and no one watches what she does. Now she has a steady boyfriend, is off drugs (I think maybe she just did pot, that's what DD says), is not promiscous, no wild parties etc No control no need to go crazy. Last time I saw her she seemed very peaceful and not tense and nervous like she was living in that situation. She told DD that she feels she is much better person now when nobody reads her stuff or watches over her back. But she does not trust her mom and SF and their relationship is close to nonexistant. sad.

so ladies don't overdo it.

Finedreams-

Personally I don't think keeping the computer in the living area is over doing it. They may find ways around it but why tempt the situation? You can avoid overdoing it but don't be a blind bat either.

"I agree with what Kathline has said. I will trust my kids UNTILL they give me reason not to and I feel they are endangearing themselves(drugs,promiscuous sex, skipping class..etc.)Then the privacy priveledge will be taken away. Parents are first and foremost parents. I want to be friend as well but that is only second to parent."

Doodle, this is what I was TRYING to say in my first post yesterday. We DID trust FSD until last September when all hell broke loose. FSD gave FDH a reason not to trust her. If someone breaks your trust, should they keep their "privacy priveledge"? Whether she's lying to protect her BM or she's scheming to keep FDH from modifying court papers, it's still a violation of FDH's trust in her. He (not me) asked her questions, she lied to his face. Period.

FDH doesn't read her diary, check her internet activity or search her room. The only thing he has done is read her e-mails.

But I'm done defending what a father feels is the best way to handle a situation with his own daughter.

The Columbine massacre was planned right in the bedroom of the guilty. They were getting info off the internet on how to make bombs and plan shootings. When the rooms were searched after the horrible incident, one of the boy's bedroom was found to be littered with guns,extra amo and bomb making materials.

IMHO the parents were negligent and should of been charged. Here is hard core evidence right in your face(this event was planned in the home) that your son was involved in VERY dark activities and you as a parent failed to see it. Was it a case of too busy parents or too much privacy? All it would of taken is opening the door once in awhile (not even SNOOPING but just opening the door) and all those lives could of been saved.

This is a VERY VERY VERY extreme case I know but my point is sometime the privacy is a cope out so parents don't have to deal with their kid's issues. Out of site out of mind mentality is a common avoidance tactic for in denial parents.

If the child is normal, happy, has good friends, makes good grades,home on time kindof kid....sure they DESERVE privacy. They have earned it by making responsible choices. If I for one second thought my child was in any kindof danger my responsibilty as a parent would override the need for the child to have privacy. The decision is on our children as to how much privacy they will be allowed.

dot, i agree, which is why i expressed, except for health or safety reasons.

But letters from the child to their other parents, or snooping on kids, with whom the main complaint seems to be that they are rude or lazy, is not a health and safety reason.

It destroys trust, and once trust is destroyed, the teen just learns to become more secretive. Its very important to keep communication open with a teen. Its the only chance you have to influence their lives.

Kids do what they are taught.

If they are taught to be sneaky they are.
If they are taught to be polite they are.

For example... my SS13 and his mom text each other till all hours of the night ...

Issue ... he could by lying and saying its mom and its someone else ... can't question it if he says its mom...

Concern ... should mom be texting her child at midnight??

I go into his room at 10 to say goodnight... (he is playing with his phone)what are you doing? Texting my mom ok hurry up you need to get to sleep.

I go back in at midnight to shut off his tv ... I hear him tapping on the keys ... what are you doing? still texting my mom? at midnight? yeah? ok goodnight.

No clue how long he was or if it really was her.

SD9 hides all the cordless phones in her bed... so even if we take one away she has the others in hand to call mom anytime day or night... can't stop her from calling mom ... afterall SD tells me what the court order says... "the court order says I can talk to my mom anytime I want" ...

Its 2am ... SD is awake and on the phone with mom ... thats acceptable(???)... I take the phone away ... she has another hidden so she calls her mom again was on the phone til 3 am with her mother. Woke up at 7am and called her mother all day long ... was on the phone from 8:40 am to 12:30 PM continuous.