Ah! Good cop vs. bad cop. I know that game all too well. I'm the evil SM aka bad cop. I tried to enforce bedtimes, AM wakeups, routines, chores, rules and consequences. My DH said he agreed that it needed to be done when we married and merged our families so when it came time to discuss our expectations of the children and follow through, he left me hanging. Although my SS is 12, he would rather eat dirt than do a chore, follow a rule, or take on anything requiring him to be responsible. Like your SS, my SS's grades are pitiful (Ds & Fs). When he came to our school, I got SS the additional help he needed in math and reading. He went to school for **free** (we live in a township that is included in an urban school district that is very poor) since I teach in a private school, hence the free ride. He could've cared less. DH is out of town a lot on business so DH had no clue of what was going on unless I told him and even then, I was the bad guy or the liar. It all went down the toilet.

I know your frustation. DH was mad at SS for something at the beginning of the summer and actually took his TV. Only two days later he gave it back and told the SS that *I* told DH he was being a jerk and to give it back. I never, ever would've said such a thing as a two day punishment is not my idea of creating effective change. Oh do I feel your pain!

And I completely understand your feelings towards your wife because I dearly love my DH yet see the folly of his parenting ways. You describe all of the enabling I see.

Go to counseling on your own, keep in touch with support groups like these, spend all of your time with your bio kids, get hobbies, and put some distance between the situation you're describing. See if that helps. At times, I have to retreat for my own sanity because I know I'm no match for the good cop in this situation and it doesn't matter how forceful I am or how much I complain, DH is going to do what he wants about SS anyhow. I'm guessing your wife is exactly the same.

Keep posting. Good luck. These SPs will give you great advice I'm sure!

Wow! Is your wife completely blind to the consequences of her actions? Would she not even GO to counseling? Or did she just not agree with the counselor's advice?

Clearly, what you are seeing are the results of her permissive parenting style combined with your more strict style. No mystery there...

So aside from admitting that her own father was wrong, and that she's incomfortable enforcing limits and listening to gripes -- does she honestly believe her approach is the right one?

As you read on the other post... and many of the posts If the bio parent doesn't see the fault in the child there is nothing to fix. If the bioparent does not back you up you must step back.

Disengage ... put it on his mother to see his behavior do not react to his actions ... and when she starts complaining to you about son ... just say unless you are willing to make changes I do not want to discuss it. I know this is very difficult easier said than done. Do not give him fuel for fighting with you. Your favorite statement should be ... "go ask your mother!" doesn't matter what question it is ... where are my socks? go ask your mother, ... can I have some money? go ask your mother. Don't wake him up for school let him suffer the consequences he's 17 ... Don't make him go to bed he's 17 should know how much sleep his body needs.

My mother locked the doors with slide locks at Midnight every night ... if you were not in the house by Midnight you stayed out till the next morning. We woke up many mornings to my brother sleeping on the front porch. Not her problem you didn't get in the house before that time. She "assumed" you had a place to sleep that night or you would have been home by midnight ... anything you can do at 2 am you can do at 10 pm.

Not doing him any favors by letting him continue to "act out" at 17 he should be realizing ... they can kick me out... either he straightens up or be gone. Granted you probably won't have an opinion in that matter bioparent will probably allow him to stay beyond 18. But how many more years is she willing to support him? with out your input? Your wife has to want to make changes for any of this to happen .... good luck!

Thanks all for you speedy and sound advice. I've wanted to 'disengage' before but I feel responsible for this child who I consider my own. There is also the potential danger to his young siblings since we've already found drugs in his room (find them again and he will be living with his biofather, I won't disengage from THAT reality) It's my nature to want to 'fix' something that I see as broken - perhaps I should grant that I am not using the right tools.

@sweeby - my wife has refused to go to counseling let alone include my SS. I think she's cracking, though, and I think I'll end up scheduling something and going without her if she still resists. Hopefully with the appointment there and ready she will overcome whatever inertia is there.

@Cawfecup - Sounds like your mom had quite the iron fist! :) I'm not at that level by any means. Just figure the kid should have some responsibility and in some way earn the stuff he gets for free (free car, cell phone (with extra text message), TV, computer, car insurance, etc). Sadly, he can't even watch his young sister and brother. How silly is it that we have to hire a babysitter for the two kids while my SS is home IMing on the computer all night or out doing who knows what? If I had tried the house-lockdown thing in my house, my wife would have opened the door and greeting him with hot chocolate while telling him he's now safe from the big bad step. OK, bit of exaggeration there, but you get the picture.

Can anyone suggest more regarding the "disengage" idea? Any good articles that you might link?

Thanks again all.

Laurels posted a link about disengaging ... a couple weeks ago...

Yes my mom had a tough job raising 5 children ... but we knew the rules and didn't mess with them my brother did but we knew better...

My 18 SD has been experimenting with alcohol (full of excuses) but hubby took the license plates off her car about a month ago, she is saving her money to get her car back on the road. So we do not count on her for anything when it comes to the younger ones ... my 15 DS babysits more than she does and he will only watch the 2 boys. not my 8 SD.

My hubby worked all day saturday my 12 yr SS was in rare form dad comes home asks dad if he can mow the lawn with the new tractor dad says yeah sure... I bug out ... ok so you reward him for badgering me most of the day? thats good to know ... and off to my room. 10 minutes later I hear him and the 12 yr old discussing the days events.... Later on I said to hubby ... next time you want to give him a privelege it would be nice to find out if he earned it. The 12 yo was pulling weeds most of the night ... not having fun on the lawn tractor.

Here is a link that might be useful: disengaging .... laurels might have a different better one for you.

Yes, I had to go to page 5 in the forums to track this thread down and add to it. Thought it better than reiterating everything on a new post and I have some further questions if anyone can help.

I have been using the oft-mentioned 'disengaging' technique with regard to my SS17, and for a good while it was working. Well, it was working from the standpoint of me feeling less stressed about trying to direct my SS to better grades and a more self-sufficient lifestyle. I let my wife know about my plan, and she felt better about everything for a while as well.

However, as we've progressed, a few specific 'side-effects' have come up that have caused friction - and in one case a real blow-up - between my wife and I. I should mention that the way I see it my wife continues to enable her son who does not work, has basically not worked all summer, has rotten grades, is not expected to do any chores (though he might if he can get paid a silly amount for them), bombed on the SAT's, and continues to smoke pot (with what money I don't know). Sadly, his mother continues to give him money, allows him to use the credit card for whatever he wishes, and his BF gave him a credit card to use for gas whenever he feels like it.

OK, that was more of a rant. He's a good kid inside really, but like any kid he will take advantage if one is presented. Hey, even I would like to have everything paid for while sitting on my computer or out at parties until however late I wanted. Sign me up!

So the specifics that have caused the strife since my 'disengaging'.

1. First one is my fault. I stopped making my case to my SS but continued to hit up my wife with my complaints and suggestions about my SS. I see the same stuff going on and can't help myself sometimes. I know that I just need to drop it completely, so for anyone else who tries the technique please realize that you need to disengage fully. My wife felt like I was attacking her son through her, and she was right and her claws came out. Any way any of you can suggest disengaging further in this case outside of a blindfold?

2. My wife is constantly urging me to go and speak with my SS - in essence go back to being his buddy like when he was 10. She says it breaks her heart that I don't do this and, like I said, she constantly pushes this. Being very honest, I just don't have that urge to do this. Yes, we speak and have conversations which are polite and cordial, but I don't feel like asking him to play X-Box and hang out with him. I guess some of it stems from my frustration with the whole situation, but I can't force it. Am I wrong to feel this? I just don't seem to have a lot of respect for him with the way he is currently, and to be frank I don't think he's pining away to hang out with me at this time anyway. I would think this would actually be common for any teenager - bio or step, but this is my first.

3. The one problem that still crops up is the credit card and the money this kid spends. I see charge upon charge on the card for fast food, iTunes, gas (yes, didn't want to burden his father too much), pizza, and even charges at the grocery store where I recently found out he charged for snacks for him and his friends AND got cash as well. I find I just can't keep still about this. Not so much the money, but the principle. This led to the huge blow-up with my wife and me, and my wife's suggestion is to take some of the child support money and just given it to the SS (so I don't see the money being spent). We have all the child support going into a 529K account for his education, and it seems ludicrous to funnel this money directly to the child for him to party on. It's money we'll have to put out anyway assuming he goes to college. How in the world can I disengage from this when our finances are now in play?

Sorry so long everyone. Hope to hear some good thoughts.

With regards to Number 3: Do you have a joint account or separate accounts? Personally, you have every right to say how money in a joint account is being spent. It's unreasonable to think otherwise. Perhaps one option to eliminate the friction is by having separate accounts and then you could divvy up the household expenses between the two of you. You pay your portion, she pays her portion and whatever she has left over is her money to give to your stepson if she so pleases. That way, it would be "her" money that she's giving him and you would not be affected by it. Just a thought...

@lonepiper - Yes, the thought of having money separate from our own joint account is what led to the discussion of using the child support. My wife is a stay-at-home mom (we have children together who are 6 and 3) otherwise she'd possibly use money from a job of her own as well.

Still, why take money that could be spent on the kid's education or saved for something that might be needed for the whole household and just give it to him? Beyond the fact that the kid basically is learning "I can use this credit card and it magically gets paid". What happens when we have to bail him out of debt later in life? And don't think we won't with my wife's take on it.

Y'know, perhaps I should just have the child support money go to my wife and let her do what she deems fit. At this rate we're going to crash and burn which is definitely the GREATER of the two evils.

Thanks for the reply.

I would definitely cease funding his activities, if he wants to party he can get a PT job. If you do not instill this into him now he will still mooch off of you and your wife when he is 30 because he is not learning any 'real world' lessons...

@sieryn: Would LOVE to do it. Told the wife I'm taking his credit card away (yes, this is all being done on the credit card he has for EMERGENCIES. I guess Wendy's IS pretty darn important). She gets her back up and sternly states that he's in high school and cannot take the time to work a job. She then points to the stuff we buy for our 6 and 3-year-olds. Like THEY could get jobs?

Funny how things repeat themselves. My wife constantly rails as to how HER mother still pays for her youngest brother's apartment, phone, and other bills. The kicker - this younger brother IS 30!!!

Help. Will she ever see this or do I have to take her to a 3rd party where it might register?

It may very well take a 3rd party. From what you said it doesn't seem like his grades would be damaged from his working 10-15 hrs a week at a grocer/mall/etc. If she is a stay at home Mom the best you can do is remove your support for his behavior (ie funding) if she wants to contribute CS funds for him to behave this way let her but I wouldn't let it come out of the community pot.

On #2 - don't feel bad, I would be frustrated even if my biological kid were to behave that way let alone SS. This is just wishful thinking Mom's part.

On #1 - can't help you there, I still have a hard time biting my tongue at certain behaviors, only thing I could come up with was not saying anything at the time but keeping track of things that irritate me and then talk to my husband about 'trends' I see in our Skids..he seems to respond better that way...

Due to your 'iffy' relationship with your stepson, maybe she sees you (an adult) attacking her defenseless son (a child). Perhaps you can 'oh so gently' point out the similarities between her and her mother (careful, this could be a death sentence!!!) and state that your stepson is on the path of her 30 year old brother.

Actually, the more I think about it, my husband and I started communicating much better about my stepdaughters when he finally realized that I was genuinely expressing concern as opposed to 'attacking.' How do you generally approach your wife about your concerns?

Third party intervention will only work if your wife shows up. I had scheduled DH & I for a co-parenting session a few weeks ago and he reneged because he was too hungry to sit through it. So instead, therapist and I spent an hour discussing my husband's apparent lack of concern and denial regarding his child. There's really nothing I can do about it and other than your finances, I would be willing to bet that there's not much discipline or order you can enforce in your home either (at least that's what my therapist tells me - to only focus on joint finances). Although I'd try like hell because you have two younger children that could easily be influenced later on by SS's behavior. In any case, I do wish you luck and hope that if third party intervention is requested, she complies.

Get a prepaid visa card with a certain amount ... like an allowance .... use the CS to fund it ... if he doesn't care about his education why should you.... explain to him that the money is coming out of his education fund. So if you use it all up oh well... money doesn't grow on trees.

If he doesn't earn the money he won't care how he spends it. All children will spend their parents money on anything ... but when it comes to their own money they want to save it and buy cheaper.

His buddies are supplying the pot and he is supplying the munchies they have it all worked out.

"Still, why take money that could be spent on the kid's education or saved for something that might be needed for the whole household and just give it to him?"

I agree with cawfecup about getting a pre-paid credit card and using the child support money.Doesnt sound as though this kid will be going to collge with bombed SAT scores and staying out till 4am.However,it really shouldnt be spent on the whole household when intended for him only,but considering your wife doesnt work and you are basicly supporting her child,you DO have a say.

Ask your wife how she'd feel if YOU had the same behavior as her son.Would she be happy if you were out until 4am?

And no,with all the friction,you are absolutely not wrong if you dont feel like hanging out with this kid.

kev111 - boy do I feel for you, I feel your pain!

I live with a guy and his 18 years old son. We have lived together for a little over 1 year but have been friends for about 5 years. The story with the son is that my BF received full custody 4 years ago because BM could not handle him and her husband said it's me or him so off to dad the kid went. The kid had quite a nice life with mom - golf lessons, baseball, football, every electronic known to man but the kid is one of these who wants it all without having to do anything for it. Plus the son was not allowed to see his father for 1 year because the son made an abuse claim to a psychiatrist. This kid is a mess and no one deals with it.

When I first moved in he cursed and screamed about everything at everyone including me. I would like to say I provoked the outbursts but I always tried to smile and be happy (it was the beginning of a new relationship) but the kid's attitude is horrendous. No respect for anyone, used to take my stuff use it return and not care whose it was. The theory he liked the best was it's my house not yours yet I live there...what logic. He also smokes pot, in the house, and has been caught doing this a number of time (plus outside in our backyard). He has become a slob in the main part of the house by not doing anything (and I mean anything). When the son got caught dealing drugs the parents sat down, figured out how to get rid of all paraphenalia and then took him out and bought him a great new cell phone (BM actually took him for that weekend). His father does not hand down any punishments at all - no reprecussions for any action. If the son curses at me like he did recently for taking his flip flop out of the hall closet (I thought they were his dad's since I hadn't seen anyone wearing them in a year) his father asks if I yelled back - he doesn't get mad that his son is being so disrespctful. His father and I cook for him, we can't make any arrangments with friends immediately after work because we have to go home first to feed his son or give him money for food even tho we have a freezer full of food. He spits, throws cigarettes wherever he wants, throws food on the front lawn because he just doesn't care. My BF does nothing, he cleans up after him, fixes his car because the 18 yr old doesn't want to work, also the son is still in High School and hopefully will graduate in June (unfortunately there is no guarantee).
I know I am all over the place with descriptions but I am at my wit's end and reay to just move out. I don't have the ability to say to him it's me or the kid but something has to give and the BF does nothing. He used to get mad and yell at him and now there is no yelling, no frustration, nothing except the BF getting mad at me if I don't feel like cooking, cleaning, etc. because he feels like I am not pulling my weight yet videodrone gets away with doing nothing at all.
Now, I yell over everything and have been told that if my yelling doesn't stop I can get out. I feel like since I knew him and I knew the son I should not have assumed that I could magically change things so now I just feel like I am losing a man who really has a big heart because of his son. I can relate with your current circumstances, if you figure out what to do please let me know because I would love to be able to get past this but right now leaving is my only option.

Many years ago (another lifetime it seems), I lived with a man (much older than me though that has nothing to do with this) and his 2 kids. The son was 17 or 18 canÂt remember exactly. Like you, he was a real problem. Eventually, the father had enough and kicked the kid out. The kid was told not to return until he could be respectful to everyone in the house, clean up after himself, etc. The kid bounced around from friend to friend  IÂm sure he had more than one cold nightÂ. Eventually, the kid asked to talk to the dad  he wanted to move back in. Strict rules were laid and he was told he was on propitiation. IÂm happy to say, when that kid came back into the house  he was respectful of everyone, everything, and picked up after himself. It truly changed him.

If the kidÂs dad is not willing to take a stand and make some tough choices  there is little hope for change.

Now, I yell over everything and have been told that if my yelling doesn't stop I can get out.

Sweetie  do you really want to live with a man who would say that? He may indeed have a big heart  but do you really want to live like this? I donÂt think he is going to change. You canÂt change him. A big heart is not enoughÂ

You're missing the point --

You CAN get out.
That's not a threat -- it's an opportunity!
There is no legally binding document that says you are stuck in this relationship.
Nothing says this kid can destroy your possessions, your inner peace, your life.
And he's not going away either. Ever.
He can shape up, or you can ship out.

Hi jeri and sweeby,

I know I can leave and I have, last night but I wish it could have worked out. My BF said the issues I have with his son are "out of his control", he can't make my decisions for me so I decided since he doesn't seem to think he needs to play a part in this fiasco then I should leave.
He swore he was going to talk to someone like a shrink or counselor but we'll see how that goes in the meantime all I can do is forge ahead and be happy.

Thanks!!

You did the right thing Drained... I know it feels lousy right now, but for your own mental health and sanity, you did the right thing.

The BF may have seemed like a great guy. But a man who refuses to discipline his child and provide a reasonably safe home environment is simply a not good father. And while a BioMom at least has a shot (a long one, sadly)at raising a decent child while married to a bad father, a StepMom hasn't got a snowball's chance in you know where.