"In any case I wonder how many stepparents asked bioparent (not their spouse but the other one) what is their opinion on parenting and stepparents' role in their children's lives. I guess most BMs would appreciate it."

It's funny that you say this because just last Friday marked 6 years FDH and I have been together. We were talking about things and reminicing about those days. And I mentioned the 2nd time I met BM. FSD was 7 and we were dropping her off at BM's work so she could take her home. On the way there, we were playing I Spy. We were having fun and laughing when we pulled in. BM says to FSD "looks like you guys were having a good time" and FSD says "yeah, mom, we were playing I Spy and I was winning" and BM looks up at me from FSD and says, with a smile, "You know she's a big cheater, right?" I just thought that was weird that she would tell a stranger something so negative about her own child. I thought MAYBE she was just giving me a heads up. So I said "nah, she's fine" and left it at that. It wasn't until a couple years later, and more of her telling me negative things, that I realized she wasn't being honest or helping me out; she was trying to get me to think bad about her so we wouldn't have a relationship.

So, no, I would never ask BM's advice on how to get along better with FSD. Chances are she'd tell me stuff just to sabotage.

BUT, X's GF expressed some (very minor) concerns to me and I reassured her that DS loves her and loves being with her so she didn't have to worry. I know FDH has asked X how he handles certain situations that pertain specifically to DS and X has been more than willing to help offer advice. He also demands that DS respect FDH; something BM doesn't do.

Kathline, in the story you gave, the mom still moved away for a guy. It's likely that dad would have told her she can't take his sons if he was that involved. Luckily, the boys wanted to stay with dad, but do you really think mom did the best thing for her kids? You don't even say she was married to the guy she was 'in love' with and she moved her HIS job, not hers. I'd guess that her kids would have been happier to have both parents nearby and involved. A parent cannot be as involved if they move to another part of the country. It may not mean they don't love their kids or that they are a terrible parent, but it doesn't make a good parent to leave your kids because you want to be with a guy. I realize some parents have to move for work, but leaving for just a boyfriend's job (I'm not sure a guy would pack up and move to go with a girlfriend, but I guess it could happen) Moving for a spouse is a little bit better but it's never really good to move away from your kids unless you HAVE to. I think you sugar coated the mom in your story and she still left her kids, no matter how you justify it. and no, it's not any better when a dad does it.

But, this thread is supposed to be a count of real life situations, not a debate. The purpose is to see how many moms or dads are CP. Can it get back to that?

I am a non-custodial mom.
Hubby is a custodial dad.

DH has full legal and Physical custody of SD...has since she was an infant...(10yrs old now)He is a wonderful father to all of our kiddos!
BM has chosen not to be involved much at all. Not sure if she has a drug/alcohol habit or not....I think there must be SOMETHING off for BM to not stay involved w/ her daughter...
DH is the only custodial father that we have ever known...unless the mother was dead....

From what I understand is that the percentage of children living in a one parent home has dramatically risen every decade since the 70's.

Since then, the percentages of custodial mother/custodial father have increased correspondingly. But since there are more single parent homes and with a bigger population...your chances of running across custodial fathers are now more common than even 10 years ago.

As of the last census, percentage of custodial mothers jumped 5% (23% total) while custodial fathers jumped 2% (4%total) over an 18 year period.

I don't think it is necessarily a trend of fathers gaining custody, it is a trend of single parent homes.

"I think advice that works for a SM married to Custodial dad may not translate well for SM married to EOW dad."

I couldn't agree more - it can be an apples/oranges situation at times. THAT being said, I think it's good when opinions are being handed out or opinions formed that we all remember each SM has a different family dynamic.

of course she is a poor parent. I just was making a point that she is not choosing to be this way, she is sick.

I think that any non-custodial parent can still be a good parent if they CHOOSE to be. In my case the bm is not a good non-custdial parent. She choses to not see her child and not call her child. I can count on one hand how many days she spent with her daughter this past summer. She has no clue what is going on in her childs life. She could not tell you her daugthers favorite foods, hobbies, friends names, or when she started school.

I think a parent that would rather spend time with her many boyfriends and party friends instead of her child is not very high on the good list.

"of course she is a poor parent. I just was making a point that she is not choosing to be this way, she is sick."

I was hoping this thread would stay on topic, but I have to say that I disagree finedreams. I have suffered from clinical depression since I was a teenager. When I am having a bout of depression, I seek help. I CHOOSE to go to my doctor or get a therapist or if it's very mild, I talk to a friend and do try to 'snap out' of it. I find exercise routine helps. The number one reason I choose to deal with and treat my depression is because I have kids to raise. I think of them and how they need me and I remember sitting in a counselors office when my kids were all very young. I was on the verge of suicide and felt desperate. The only thing I had to live for was my kids. Having a 'sick' parent is one thing, but the twin's mom was in rehab. She COULD choose to get help but she CHOSE to run away and leave her kids. She'd rather get high than be a good mom to her kids. That is a choice. That's why it's called 'settling down' when you decide to get married and have kids. There are some mental illnesses that, even with treatment, might render a parent unable to care for children, but that doesn't excuse her turning to drugs and partying. She could choose to stay in rehab and even if her mental illness prevents her from having custody, she could be a non custodial parent that is as involved as she can be, not on drugs. Not all non custodial parents are bad, but they should be involved in their kid lives, whether they are mom or dad.

and I also cannot drink alcohol because I know that I can get carried away and I may be an alcoholic. I am not sold on it being genetic, but my mother and my grandfather (on my dad side) are alcoholic so maybe there is a genetic factor, but there have been a few times I set out to have a good time and end up drinking too much. I don't want to be an alcoholic or problem drinker, so I don't drink. I CHOOSE to not drink out of fear of becoming an alcoholic like my mother. I don't want my kids to have a mother like I had. That is a choice.

I agree with helpwiththis, being non custodial doesn't make you a bad parent, but when you have your priorities skewed and putting your own needs before those of your child, make you 'not a good parent'. (I hesitate to say BAD parent because I think the title of bad parent is reserved for those that actively harm their child rather than the ones that just uninvolved/stay out of the child's life)

I hear what you are saying. you might be a strong person. but other people aren't. you know your limitations, other people don't.

my brother is addicted to gambling, was in trouble couple of times, family had to pull him out. His solution is now: he does not gamble. Does not touch cards, does not come around casinos, will never go to Vegas, never makes bets on anything etc. He knows if he plays anything, he can't stop, so he does not play. I knew I needed to quit smoking and I did, tried twice and finally succeeded. Do i want to smoke? every day. but if I take one cigarette I will smoke again. because I am a smoker. so i don't smoke. when it comes to alcohol I don't care about it, i can barely finish half a glass of wine at a dinner party and even that i am forcing. I am pretty hyper the way i am, with no alcohol. haha lol I am not afraid of being carried away because I have no interest in drinking whatsoever. so i know what i can do or what i cannot do.

BUT other people aren't this way. they are either too weak or too messed up or are in denial or don't get it or whatever. also plenty of people do go to rehab, are on medication etc and still cannot get out of it.

I have a friend-psychologist. Number of his clients are suicidal. they were treated by medication, therapy this or that, one of them was on all kind of treatments and seemed to do well, she was in his office in the morning then went home and killed herself. so no guarantee that teratments fix people. some are too sick.

it is easy to say what you are supposed to do.

Just because people have "addictions" or "illnesses" does not give them an excuse to be a poor parent. It is not a "get out of jail free" card. Being a weak person who gives into temptation does not excuse that you left your children for the latest guy.

I really get upset about all the excuses people make for desdbeat moms. Because no excuse or diagnosis in the world makes up for the hurt on the childrens faces when their deadbeat parent disappoints them time after time. No excuse or diagnosis makes up for the scars those deadbeats forever leave in their children. And no excuse or diagnosis can bring back the childhood of an adult who did not have one of their parents when they were growing up.

Pedophiles are sick, but it does not excuse their behavior or make them exempt from being punished for what they do. If a man has the urge to touch small children but doesn't, because he chooses to stay away from the temptation/small children, he still suffers from the same sickness that all the other pedophiles suffer from, but they are in jail because they chose to act on their impulses. Who would ever say, 'he's not a bad guy, he is just sick'?

oh com'n people, you go overboard. who said there is an excuse? but she is mentally ill, she didn't choose to be one. let's say a mentally ill person commits suicide abandoning their children in tragedy. awful. wouldn't you agree that they commited suicide because they are mentally ill rather than because they are poor parents? It would never occur to me to think that they commited suicide because they are bad parents.

of course pedophiles have to be punished. who says otherwise? but they are sick. one does not exclude the other.

drug addict should go to treatment, of course. but he does drugs because of sickness (addiction).

I see no argument here.

lady in question is mentally ill that causes her to act crazy. now, is she a poor parent for not trying treatments? of course. But is she a poor parent for having mental illness? I don't think so.

A mental illness is a different animal altogether than a parent who willingly chooses to abandon a child.

Most addicts are in fact, mentally ill, which is an often ignored fact.

No one chooses to be mentally ill. What concerns me is the amount of people willing and able to procreate with the mentally ill and then wash their hands of the product..the children.

"is she a poor parent for not trying treatments? of course. But is she a poor parent for having mental illness? I don't think so."

Totally AGREE. The fact that she left the treatment center and chooses to stay on drugs and leave her kids (moving 3 hours away) makes her a poor parent.

She CHOSE to have her children. I think it's worse for a mother to abandon a child than a father because a woman gets to make the choice to have or not have a child. We all could have prevented pregnancy or had an abortion without the father's knowledge or consent. It's a right that only women have. Once a woman gets pregnant, the man is on standby until women make the choice. If he doesn't want to be a father, he is told he should have used better protection but if a woman doesn't want to be a mother, she can abort. Once she CHOOSES to have the child, the father is responsible financially whether he likes it or not. If he fights it or refuses to pay, he's labeled a deadbeat. But, when a mother does the same thing, people want to make excuses or have sympathy because she has problems, because it's assumed that a mother that gives up her kids has problems but a guy that has problems and leaves is still a deadbeat.

My husband and I were out to dinner last night and he says, "you know, if I were telling child services that I didn't want to work so I can live off my girlfriend or wife, they'd have my ass!" and he's right, there is a double standard when it comes to how mothers and fathers are viewed.

I so agree with nivea. When i read about what awful nonexistant or abusive parents, or addicted, or ill people are chosen to be the other parent of your children! unless they developed all this after the fact (very unlikely) you weren't forced to have children with these people. You bear a responsibility too. wouldn't it be better to figure out first if the other person would at least be a OK parent prior to having kids?

nobody makes excuses. we are just saying that she is ill. your SD's BM is not ill, she just does not want to work and be responsble. i am surprised you see no difference. was SD's BM diagnosed with mental illness? I don't think so.

At this point where the girls mom is concerned they are better off not having anything to do with her. The woman can't help that she's a mental case but she COULD of stopped their belongings from being chunked out into the street....she sure as hell managed to load her futniture and electronics onto a truck before heading 3 hours away.

She also could have made it a point to stop by and see them before she left but she didn't...she sure as hell made time to go see her Ex boyfriend before ditching town. The one who tried to CHOCK HER OUT a few months back.

She could of attempted to keep her tail in treatment and TRIED to get better...but she chose to run off three counties away with ANOTHER loser male she met in rehab....hahahaha. She goes to rehab and comes out with nothing but an addicted boyfriend.

She could of kept up on their paperwork so they had medicaid and subsidized daycare but she didn't...she found her way to the tax office PRONTO to file THAT paperwork and promptly went to Disney World WITHOUT the girls with the return money.

She has mental moments but even when she is in her right mind she is totally selfish. She hasn't under went a labotamy...she is capable of clear thought WHEN IT'S CONVIENIENT TO HER! I think addict or not....sickness or not...she is a terrible mother.

ED Geines was obviously mentally ill (hello, canabalism anyone) but he was no less held accountable for his sick actions (death sentence much). Mental illness does not in this society excuse people from their actions. Even mentally retarded people go to jail for murder. It becomes a crutch and an excuse.

I think people with children who commit suicide are among the most selfish a-holes on the planet. I have no sympathy for them...only the family and friends who are left behind.

I think I have mentioned before that Jonathan pushed for an abortion untill he found out there was two babies involved. His conscience couldn't handle it after that. He realized from the get go what a train wreck this was going to be. Amanda refused an abortion from the get go. It was a way for her to hook him.

Of course he is glad they are here now and he wouldn't change that for the world but he wasn't a complete moron and he certainly did not choose to get her pregnant. He was your typical, horny and gulable 27 year old man that was tricked into getting a crazy person pregnant. It was poor judgement to say the least but the girls are here and he has more than made up for that in the way he cares for them now.

SO to all of you trying to turn it into a "it's his fault for getting her prgnant issue" you need to back up and ask yourselves if you are perfect. You don't know Jonathan or the girls mom and you don't have a clue about our situation.

My SD's mom told her first husband she was on the pill but got pregnant as soon as his divorce was final and he married her. (she actually got pregnant once before his divorce was final but aborted that baby). She did the same with my DH. Told him she was on the pill, he believed her, she turns up pregnant, just when he's thinking of breaking it off. I'm not sure he was tricked, but lied to? Yes, but he is responsible for what he does too. Was he gullible? YES. You'd think that in a relationship, there would be trust, so how can it be poor judgment to trust your partner? After he broke up with his ex, he didn't trust women. When he and I got together, I told him I can't get pregnant and he wanted proof. I showed him my scar from my tubal ligation and told him he's going to have to trust me or forget it. My youngest was 15 and I told him that I was not starting over again and while I don't think he was ready to fully believe me, he gave me the benefit of the doubt because I told him I was not getting into a relationship where I could not be trusted from the start. He probably lost sleep a few times wondering if I was lying to him to 'trick' him, but he never said anything to me. Eventually, he can see that I didn't lie and I have never lied to him and I can tell now, he trusts me in every way. I have earned his trust. I don't blame him for being hesitant and if I had been less than honest or an outright liar, he could have been 'tricked' into another kid. I wouldn't say he has poor judgment when a woman says 'what, you don't trust me?' and threatens to leave him like I did.

My husband didn't know his ex was a pathological liar until I came along and pointed out her lies and things that didn't make sense. I really don't know what he thought about her before he met me when she would tell him things that didn't make sense. He tells me he didn't think about it or pay much attention to it. But, he had no idea that his daughter was learning her bad behaviors from her mom. He was completely unaware of how his daughter was learning those things, he would even discuss it with his ex and she would act like she had no idea where their daughter was coming up with this or that. He wasn't sure but thought she had lied about the birth control and he figured it was only to get him to marry her and since she had her older daughter, he assumed she was still a good mom. (I think he just wanted to believe it so he put blinders on) I think lots of guys wear blinders if it makes their life a little more peaceful and most guys I know, go along with stuff to avoid confrontation and conflict.

How many women are 'tricked' into marrying a cheater because he convinces her she's the ONLY girl for him? Then, when the guy cheats on them, they are not told they had bad judgment, unless he gave them a reason BEFORE they married him to know he was a cheater.

"How many women are 'tricked' into marrying a cheater because he convinces her she's the ONLY girl for him? Then, when the guy cheats on them, they are not told they had bad judgment, unless he gave them a reason BEFORE they married him to know he was a cheater."

So true.
And on the same line how many women would you guess have PURPOSEFULLY gone off birthcontrol to get pregnant in order to "save" a relatonship.

Jonathan and Am--- had broken up multiple times before the girls were conceived and when she found out she was pregnant they had actually split up three weeks prior. She had to call him and tell her she was pregnant. Talks of abortion failed and it became known they were twins. He then tried to do the "right" thing and married the loon which I am willing to guess was exactly what she was hoping he would do.

She got pregnant on purpose I am sure and then when the relationship fell through lost interest in the girls.

Doesn't matter the circumstances how the child came to be ...what matters is the children are here now and the dad's are stepping up while the mom's are not.

More dads are doing right by their kids these days than years ago. It was unheard of a father having custody still today the stigma exists mom must have mental issues or be addicted to drugs ... but that is not the case with my SC's BM she wanted her freedom and got it until hubby held her to task and told her.... "I will not raise these kids alone".... now he wishes he had just let go away.

"still today the stigma exists mom must have mental issues or be addicted to drugs ... but that is not the case with my SC's BM she wanted her freedom"

That's true with my SD's mom. She wants to be with her BF and not worry about anything except her tan lines.

Nivea:
"What concerns me is the amount of people willing and able to procreate with the mentally ill and then wash their hands of the product..the children."

Where does this fit into the topic of the thread? The thread is about custodial fathers and someone said that mentally ill mothers that are non custodial are sick. THEY are the ones washing their hands of the product. It's the FATHERS that are stepping up to take responsibility for the children they created, whether the mother was mentally ill or not. Did your father abandon you with a mentally ill mother? I don't know where you are coming from with that comment.

and just for the record, not all mental illnesses are easily detected, not to mention it's not really someone might want to admit to when they are dating. lol, can you imagine a guy saying 'tell me about yourself' and she says, 'well, I am bi polar and self medicate, but I'm okay.' If they have THAT conversation and he gets her pregnant, then yeah, 'shame on him'. It's not a likely scenario though.

Yeah I am sure some dude wanting to be a dad without a wife ... says to himself ... self this ones a loon lets knock her up so I can take the kid and live happily ever after!!!!

Wow, my comments were not directed at anyone here specifically.

"Where does this fit into the topic of the thread? The thread is about custodial fathers and someone said that mentally ill mothers that are non custodial are sick. THEY are the ones washing their hands of the product. It's the FATHERS that are stepping up to take responsibility for the children they created, whether the mother was mentally ill or not. Did your father abandon you with a mentally ill mother? I don't know where you are coming from with that comment. "

Imamommy, I didn't specify which parent was mentally ill and the possible affects of a mentally ill father or mother and the differences gender would make.

This thread has veered quite a bit and I commented, not sure where you are coming from.

There are many instances where a father pursued custody because of a mentally ill mom, that is what they were supposed to do :) I think it is something you are required to do as a parent, look out for your children. It's odd to me that anyone would need to point out that this is extraordinary as it is what they are supposed to do.

There are many more instances where a man has not pursued custody and the children have been left to suffer with any of the following alcoholic, drug addicted, mentally ill mom and have suffered the consequences of this for LIFE. Sure some of this was because it was unheard of 40 years ago for a father to get custody, but honestly, a real good look at history will only show maybe a span of 30 years of women having the upper hand in divorce.

Times have already changed. The majority of men still have not stepped up leaving children behind for a variety of reasons.

I know you are trying to point out that there are more custodial men today, but in all reality the percentages of custodial men have not gone up significantly...there is just a bigger population making it more liable to run across a custodial dad.

"This thread has veered quite a bit and I commented, not sure where you are coming from."

The thread was discussing a specific parent with mental illness abandoning her children and you mention out of the blue about 'people that procreate with the mentally ill and wash their hands of the product' and what does that have to do with the discussion? I'll agree, it got onto a tangent and away from the original topic, but if you were not commenting on the current tangent, were you trying to start another one? Nobody has said anything about anyone 'procreating' with a mentally ill person and ditching the resulting kids.

"I know you are trying to point out that there are more custodial men today, but in all reality the percentages of custodial men have not gone up significantly."

There ARE more custodial men today. That is a fact. It may be because of a bigger population, but it is becoming more common to run across a custodial dad. I don't know where you get the information that the percentages have not gone up significantly (what is significant?), but how many of the custodial dad's married to stepmom's on here have ever been polled or asked as part of the 'statistics'? Not mine.

I don't know about women having the upper hand in divorces, that may be true. But, a real good look at history will also show you that women do not regard themselves the same way women did 30 years ago. Women used to be domesticated and stayed home to cook, clean and raise kids while the men worked. Women today want careers, money and power. They want to be youthful longer and not 'matronly'. My stepdaughter's mom is 35 and her life goal is to be "hott and sexy" Times have changed. I agree.

It's true, men still abandon their responsibility more often than women, but women CHOOSE to carry a pregnancy and give birth. Men are not always a part of that choice, even though they should be. When a woman, after making the choice to have a child, abandons the child, it is somehow worse than a father that might not have wanted to be a father in the first place.

The long form Census form, which is sent to a representative sample of US residents, contains these questions. I think the Census department has experience in determining representativesamples.

The whole point of the thread was to hear actual situations that are known, not what the statistics are. I've been an adult for 22 years and not once have I received a census form of any kind. Neither has my husband, so just how do they get an accurate accounting if they don't census everyone? When I was a kid, I remember the census sent people out to complete a form with each family and that is how they determined a town's population and other stats. Perhaps there are too many people and not enough money to keep doing it that way, and if so, then the stats they come up with are inaccurate.

The stats Nivea gave earlier have to do with households overall. Does it take into consideration the households that are not single parent households might be (and likely are) second or third marriages? If the divorce rate is over 50% and divorce rate for subsequent marriages is even higher, I would think the numbers would be higher than she quoted. If she's only considering 'single' parents, then that has nothing to do with the discussion here where most if not all of the custodial fathers are married and not part of the statistics that she quoted. (and I didn't even have to figure that out in college, I just have COMMON SENSE!!!)

Yes, the census form. And schools turn in their results as well. There are many studies out there.

Imamommy, I don't see where this thread is talking about one specific persons situation? This entire thread is about it, huh?

I don't know what is up with the spanish inquisition or whether my post hit a nerve with you or what. But people were talking about whether a mentally ill parent is a 'bad' parent and debating that. I gave my opinion, thats all folks!

"I don't know about women having the upper hand in divorces, that may be true. But, a real good look at history will also show you that women do not regard themselves the same way women did 30 years ago. Women used to be domesticated and stayed home to cook, clean and raise kids while the men worked. Women today want careers, money and power. They want to be youthful longer and not 'matronly'. My stepdaughter's mom is 35 and her life goal is to be "hott and sexy" Times have changed. I agree."

Regarding yourself a certain way and what generational expections of what is expected from your gender are totally different things.

I am in your stepdaughters moms age range and I can assure you that is not my goal. Although I do think I achieve it anyway ;)

Woman today have choices that they didn't have not too long ago. I wouldn't say that they are ALL choosing a certain lifestyle. It seems a rather broad brush to paint a generation with, dontcha think?

Ima,

YOU started this about being outdated stats -- "The statistic for father's having primary custody has been said to be 10% but I'd argue that is an outdated stat" -- and although polling people here is a pretty unscientific way to poll, you are free to do so.

I have received the Census form every 10 years. The short form (typical govt- lol -- is quite a few pages) goes to every household. Hard to beleive you didnt recieve it. The short form does not ask enough detailed questions. The long form (which goes to one in six households) DOES. It asks, for each adult member of the household, details as to minor children and where they reside (in household or elsewhere) -- choiced being with parent, with former spouse, with grandparent and other. This is a more accurate way than polling people on the internet.

Imamommy, the stats I gave earlier are from households with children. If someone is remarried, their spouse is still not considered the childs parent.

Actually, those were some of the questions I had as well because I know more than just a few women that have multiple children with different fathers. I have not met any fathers who have custody of children from multiple mothers.

I do not think a thread on a website will give an accurate view of any stats in America these days.

we keep forgetting that this forum does not clearly represent our society. This is not a good sample. There are CP dads on this forum because those would be SMs who would be more concerned (stepkids live with them).

Soimetimes I think we forget that what happens on this forum is just a tiny portion of the society. also if we here discuss XYZ issues it does not mean that those are the same issues as every single person struggles with.

also we all live in different states and belong to different socio-economic groups,education levels, cultures, religions etc What is happening here is not necessarilly a norm.

It is like if I will read threads on estrangement and assume that it is national epidemics. i have never met anyone estranged from anyone in my entire life (living in different geographical regions). if you listen to estranged people they say it is gone up so much, it is like every family has estrangement there. Huh? They have this problem but does it mean it went up? I did not know anyone 20 years ago and still know no one estranged.

So same here because so many of members of this forum know custodial fathers or married to one it is supposedly
went so much up everywhere. based on what? We cannot
judge by personal expereince. there is stastics. right? why not trust Census?

Divorce is over 50%. Nobody was ever divorced in my extended family generations back and now. so should i insist that divorce rate is going fdown just because it is not happening in my family? i tend to trust statistics.
Divorce rate did not go down just because I observe that.

same wiht custodial dads. it maybe went up because judges are less likely to give prefernce to moms or whatever other reason, but there is no significant increase.

What I also wrote in the original post is: "I know that's not very scientific or doesn't create an accurate picture by any means, but I'd like to get an idea from others, not just from your situation, but people you know."

What do I give a crap about hearing you spat out statistics that I can look up myself? Where is anyone asking what your opinion on anything? A specific question was asked in the original post, you have not answered it. Instead you posted:

" * Posted by nivea (My Page) on
Tue, Aug 12, 08 at 21:38

From what I understand is that the percentage of children living in a one parent home has dramatically risen every decade since the 70's.

Since then, the percentages of custodial mother/custodial father have increased correspondingly. But since there are more single parent homes and with a bigger population...your chances of running across custodial fathers are now more common than even 10 years ago.

As of the last census, percentage of custodial mothers jumped 5% (23% total) while custodial fathers jumped 2% (4%total) over an 18 year period.

I don't think it is necessarily a trend of fathers gaining custody, it is a trend of single parent homes."

What does that have to do with the original question? That is what you wrote BEFORE it went off topic. Who cares??? You want to discuss the census and trends, start another thread. Where does it say that this is any sort of accurate view of stats in America? I specifically said, "I'd like to get ideas from others". Obviously, if I polled members of GW, there are probably more custodial step mom's here percentage wise than in the general population. (there are probably more CSM than EOWSM) I asked to include people you know, not just family or friends. Of course it's not scientific, I said that up front. Wasn't that clear?

"whether my post hit a nerve with you"

Nothing you could write would touch my nerves. Don't flatter yourself, I'd have to care what you think.

Your very first line invites discussion on custodial dads vs. moms.

"The statistic for father's having primary custody has been said to be 10% but I'd argue that is an outdated stat."

If you want to do a poll of just gardenwebs posters, then why state you'd argue about outdated statistics?

My post is on topic concerning statistics that you yourself posted and claimed to be outdated. Perhaps we are not reading the same thread, but many posters went "off topic" including yourself before I supposedly did.

And again, posting about people I know in real life and their situations wouldn't give any sort of accurate picture for others. But now I know you're not interested in accurate :)

So here goes and lets hope I remember everyone I know..

myself - cp my ex - ncp TWICE
family - 2 cp moms, 3 ncp dads , 1 cp dad, 1 cp grandmother (oops, you didn't ask for that), 2 ex-couples share 50/50
friends - 6 ex-couples share 50/50, 4 cp moms, 5 ncp dads

And now I don't even want to think about work, so sorry I'm going to leave that out :) I probably don't even know their exact situations, so there's that.

I dont know,

Maybe its just me, but I think niveas post, speculation on whether the apparent increase is merely a reflection of the increase in single parent homes, is far closer to being on the original topic, than an explanation of how ima's husband didnt trust her at first that she couldnt get pregnant, and ima showed him her scar to prove it

Fact is, in posts like t his, the absolute original topic is rarely going to be totally adhered to. Most of the posts so far reflect other concerns, ie, mentally ill mothers, women who get knocked up on purpose,

Its not really a big deal. Its part of rational discourse in any topic, unless of course, the post is designed merely for polling purposes ( such as the john edwards one)

SOmetimes, the fact that the topic shifts during a post only offends posters when someone that doesnt agree with them takes it off topic. IF they, or those who agree with them do so, its not an issue. But everyone;s opinion is valid, and everyone has something important to say. Sometimes the topic takes a jog. Thats life. Cant we just lighten up and enjoy the conversation?

Ima said:
"Told him she was on the pill, he believed her, she turns up pregnant, just when he's thinking of breaking it off. I'm not sure he was tricked, but lied to? Yes, but he is responsible for what he does too. Was he gullible? YES."

EXACT same scenario with FDH's son's mom. He knows he was stupid to believe her. But she wanted to marry him and that was the perfect way. What goes around comes around. She got some female problems later on and, when she married the love of her life, couldn't have children with him. So sad. Then he wanted to adopt FDH's son. No dice.

Thank you to all the ladies that shared how many custodial mothers and fathers they know in real life. Some only shared the number of fathers and I assume they also know plenty of mothers too but didn't mention it. It wasn't meant to be a 'poll' by any means. I found it odd that in my life, I know mostly custodial fathers. Many of the (court) custody case I see through work are fathers seeking or having custody. It may be that they are exercising their rights and mothers that have custody don't have to go to court as often because the fathers in those cases may not fight it or are not involved. Like I said, it was not meant to be scientific or a representation of situations all over, I just wanted to know if MY experiences are unique or if others had similar experiences. Nothing more.

My comments on the 'outdated statistic' had to do with my opinion regarding my situation and experiences in my life and setting the stage for my question, which was "I'd like to get an idea from others, not just from your situation, but people you know". It wasn't an 'invite' to debate that statistic but I see how it could be interpreted that way.

and thank you to those that adhered to the original topic. I know I participated in the off topic tangent and maybe another thread should have been started to discuss those things. Sorry 'bout that.

Ima, no one cares that you or anyone else may have veered a little. There's just no need to jump on anyone you think has veered.

It may be that most people settle things without a process server. I know I did. In my state, the law provides that service by mail is good service. So with what I call normal people, many people dont use process servers.

"It may be that most people settle things without a process server. I know I did. In my state, the law provides that service by mail is good service. So with what I call normal people, many people dont use process servers."

Well, I hope you don't think that I am implying that the cases I see on a day to day basis or the cases heard on any given day I am sitting in court are representative of the general population, nationwide. I'm just one company of many in one county (of 58 in my state) in one state (of 50 United States) on one continent (out of 7) in the world. Obviously, what I see day to day is not necessarily the 'norm' and you are absolutely correct, many people do service by mail and/or acknowledgment of receipt and attorney's routinely accept service from one another, so the people that hire me are not going to give me any accurate measure of what is going on in the rest of the world. However, as Finedreams pointed out, "we all live in different states and belong to different socio-economic groups,education levels, cultures, religions" and that is exactly why I posted the question here. To hear what people from other situations and locations have experienced. Doesn't mean that I am saying it is the 'norm', nor does it ask for anyone to personally attack someone else's situation.

Nivea might have misunderstood my question or intent in the original post and answered in another way than I expected, talking about statistics when all I cared to learn is what other people have come across. I've acknowledged that it could be misinterpreted and that it was my mistake. I guess I didn't make myself clear. I apologize to anyone that misunderstood what the original post was asking. I have thanked those that shared. However, if you are talking about jumping on Nivea for her comment about people that procreate with a mentally ill person and abandon the child, she is entitled to her opinion on that but I fail to see how it relates to the discussion. The conversation at that time was about a mentally ill mother abandoning her kids, not the father abandoning his kids with a mentally ill mother. (and no the thread was not about just that situation, that was off topic, but nonetheless, her comment was completely out in left field and had nothing to do with that situation or any other. It comes across as looking like she's arguing that it's the fault of the person that procreated with the mentally ill person for having a relationship with a mentally ill person. She ignored my comment that often times, mentally ill people don't 'look' mentally ill or share their mental illness with anyone. As pseudo said, I don't think ANYONE seeks out a mentally ill person to make a baby, unless that person is also mentally ill or sick.

I'm sure if we were all sitting in a coffee shop or in a living room having this same conversation it wouldn't be this big of a deal.

Not in the interest of continuing an argument but rather squashing it, I want to clear this up.

"The conversation at that time was about a mentally ill mother abandoning her kids, not the father abandoning his kids with a mentally ill mother. (and no the thread was not about just that situation, that was off topic, but nonetheless, her comment was completely out in left field and had nothing to do with that situation or any other. It comes across as looking like she's arguing that it's the fault of the person that procreated with the mentally ill person for having a relationship with a mentally ill person. She ignored my comment that often times, mentally ill people don't 'look' mentally ill or share their mental illness with anyone."

Again, I'm not sure where we are disconnecting but I'm not commenting on anyone's situation. If someone (male or female) pursues custody of the child living with a mentally ill person, than I don't see that as being extraordinary. They are being a parent and living it every sense of the word then. It doesn't matter if it is Mom or Dad or which one is ill and I don't think gender comes into play then.

And I ignored your comment about seeking to procreate with a mentally ill person because 1) you are insisting about on topic only 2) I can't really judge anyone's situation nor do I care to know about if they knew about this person's issues before having sex....but what most likely they DO know when they separate/divorce is what matters.

"I think I have mentioned before that Jonathan pushed for an abortion untill he found out there was two babies involved. His conscience couldn't handle it after that."

I really don't understand the logic behind that. If it is wrong to abort two fetuses, why is it not wrong to abort one?

I have never heard of process servers until i have read it on this forum.

And the only person I know who was served by a process server was my collegue last spring who even though she begged her husband to not do it at work (for number of reasons), he still sent a process server right to work. Keep in mind job specific made it so uncomfortable for her, plus she had to continue working and she has heart condition. She got heart problem, needless to say she was taken from work by emergency and stayed in the hospital for 3 days, that sick she was. Not only he cheated wiht TOW and left he also had to make her life miserable at work by sending a server. Other colleagues mentioned that they could not understand why he even needed process server, everyone is getting divorced without it. One of the colleagues suggested that he did it to embarass her, he was pretty mentally abusive when they were married.

My point is that this is not a normal kind of guy trying to divorce peacefully.

Based on this experience could it be that only particular type of guys use process servers?

Could it be that those are the same kind of guys who want their wies to lose custody for no major reason(more money, dig up some dirt about BM, revenge etc)?

Also could it be that only in a situation where there is some kind of drama or hatred or evil intentions, or substance abuse, or mental illness, then people use process servers (don't trust attprnmey or mail)? So is it possible that process servers have expereinces with particular type of families (some messed up types)?

It goes back to my suggestion that men have primary custody when there is something wrong to begin wiht: drugs, illness etc So since people who use process servers are a particular type of people we absolutelly cannot conclude that custody went up. It could possibly go up in the type of families that use process servers (see above).

So let's trust what stastics says. Number of men having custody is not sky rocketing.

when women take care of their children (alone or with someone), it is viewed as a normal every day kind of thing. But when men take care of their kids it is viewed like a heroic martyr kind of action. what I would like to change is the whole attitude difference. If man takes care of his kids, it is just as normal act as a woman does. Also if women abandon their kids, everyone is furious and yet when men do exactly same thing attitude is different-kind of like oh well i will support my own kids. Not as big of a deal when guys are deadbeat? I'd like to see that change.

Finedreams, I agree that there are a number of people that use process servers to be mean or humiliate. I've been asked outright to humiliate. My point isn't just about what I see in court or as a process server. (I also do work for mostly attorney's and it's not because they want drama, but because it protects them. I am not their employee and I have no ax to grind with the people I serve, so when the person to be served says "I didn't get any papers in the mail", like my husbands ex tried to say, they have a proof of service signed by an uninterested third party) My point is that within my own family, there are several custodial fathers. I find it odd that I would end up in relationships with two men that were custodial fathers if it's so rare. I also met plenty of non custodial fathers when I was dating and my husband was a 50/50 parent when we met, so it wasn't like I chose a guy because he's a custodial parent. I just found it strange and thought I'd ask what others around the country/world have experienced.

Once again, thanks to those that answered.

He new it was wrong to abort one child and his guilt was already heavey for even mentioning it. He was VERY reluctant to tell me this because he was afraid I would judge him. He just knew that the girls mom was not a suitable mother and he forsaw all of this coming. He thought the child may be better off not being born than having an unstable mother.

However, when he found out ther were TWO babies invovled he couldn't handle it. What little bit of confidence he had that it was the right thing to do was completely over shadowed by guilt at that point and he couldn't bring himself to push for it at all.

To this day he has a nasty feeling in his stomach that he even suggested it no LESS pushed for it but in the situation he thought at the time it might have been for the best.

We are both very glad things worked out the way they did now. I can't imagine not having them around.

all of those guys that you mentioned imaommy have pretty messed up exwives or exgirlfriends and with the exception of your current DH (who sounds like a decent man) were possibly a bit messed up themselves too. Which goes back to my suggestion that men having primary custody (I am not talking about 50/50) is typical for a bit of abnormal situations. In normal situations and normal families women don't give up custody.

It is not rare, it is possibly rare in some circles but more common in others. That's why some of us have not met too many men with primary custody (unless they are widowers) because in normal families women don't give up custody.

So tell me why doesn't my SC's mother have custody then? ... She isn't a drug addict or have a confirmed mental disease...

She moved out and didn't take her kids with her. ...

fine dreams, above I mentioned knowing of 4 women that abandoned their families. One I know came from and was in a dysfunctional situation and for sure had problems, 3 children. One just an ordinary mom of 2, no drugs/drinking etc just wanted out. The other two were Dr's wives. No drinking/drugs or mental problems that anyone could see. 3rd one I know decided to return to her career. The 4th I don't know any circumstances other that upstanding family by all appearances. I was shocked at all 4 but not sure why since dad's have been doing it for generations.

pseudo she might be an exception, not a norm. And she does not sound that normal to me by what you previously described.

As I said in the OP, my brother in law is a custodial father. My younger sister is the mother to their son. She is not on drugs or any other problems, but in my opinion, she is a poor parent. Maybe it's a result of poor parenting from my mother, my sister isn't 'motherly' and yet she goes out of her way to 'mother' her husband's daughter (her step daughter) and some people that are not even related to her. She has taken in a few people that have had problems with drugs and alcohol and tries to be a mom figure to them, yet hardly ever sees her son, who is now 15.. the same age as her step daughter. I don't get how she can 'mother' someone else's kids and not her own. AND SHE'S MY SISTER!!! I love her but I don't understand it. The uncle I mentioned in the OP kept his two kids after their mother left him. Well, she is not on drugs, she was working for CHP and started an affair with an officer. When she first left, she took her daughter, left her son. Soon after, the daughter was sent back to dad and he raised both of them. Their mother chose moving away (about an hour) to be with her boyfriend and start a new life with him.

I used to think the same way as FD that mother's just don't give up their kids unless they are mentally ill or have addictions or huge problems. I'd have to be in jail or dead to give up my kids when they were little. Then, I started working for social services and saw lots of situations where mom's didn't have kids. Yes, most were on drugs, had mental problems or had died, but there was a lot that just left and started a new family with a new man... or chose to have a single life with no responsibility. I was shocked by it. I wouldn't say it was a majority and I don't think for a moment that custodial dads outnumber custodial mom's. But, I no longer think that moms won't just up and leave their kids for no good reason. They do. No, it's not the norm, but they do.

"pseudo she might be an exception, not a norm. And she does not sound that normal to me by what you previously described."

I really feel like in psuedo's case mom is just selfish and self-absorbed. It really isn't an uncommom human character flaw for a person to be selfish. I don't think a female has to be a mental or an addict to make poor decisions where their children are concerned. What about all the women who keep custody but allow their abusive boyfriends to mistreat the children? They don't necessarily have to be mental...just more concerned with having a man around than caring for their children.

I don't understand why it is so easy for people to believe a man can be a poor parent without a diagnosis but a woman can not. Every human action can not be accounted for with some sort of illness....some people are just self absorbed a$$holes. Why is that so hard to believe? There are a ton of a$$holes in the world and most of them are parents!