14 or 12 gauge wire in remodel ?
blue_fastback
16 years ago
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normel
16 years agobigbird_1
16 years agoRelated Discussions
electrician put 12 gauge wire on 20A breaker???
Comments (19)...and with the wrong answers. A 20A breaker doesn't required a particular kind of wire, it's the 14G wire that precludes a large breaker than 15A. If there is more than one single receptacle on the 20A circuit, they can be 15A. The statement about light switches is completely false. There's no requirement that light switches be wired with 15A circuits or 14 gauge wire, and frankly there's nothing that precludes you from putting 12g on the 15A breaker either. Kitchen COUNTERTOP RECEPTACLES and bathroom RECEPTACLES. Not all OUTLETS. Further, there are a five more places that require GFCI for 15 and 20A 120V receptacles by code (laundry, unfinished basement, garage, near sinks, boathouses, outdoors, and in crawl spaces) and his guidance of "moisture places" doesn't strictly hold true. There are a few other special requirements for places like pools, animal barns, etc... but those aren't normally encountered inside dwellings....See More14-2 and 12-2 wire on 20 amp circuit code clarification
Comments (16)The short answer to the question that was asked is that the breaker in the panel protects the branch circuit wiring; it is not intended to protect what's connected to that circuit. Anything that is connected to the circuit, and isn't capable of sustaining the full rated capacity of the circuit, is expected to provide its own protection if it is deemed necessary. That's why most electronics and small appliances have their own fuses, breakers, or fusible links, often rated substantially below the capacity of the branch circuit. Lighting has historically been cut a bit of slack in building and electrical codes. That's because there isn't really that much that can go bad wrong with an incandescent lighting fixture. (Well, at least since the days of the screw-in outlet adaptors...) So they usually aren't required to have overcurrent protection. The light bulb generally serves as its own protection; if it shorts internally, whatever part is shorted melts and opens the circuit. If it somehow does managed to become shorted (say, some kid drops a penny in the empty socket), usually the 18-gauge zip cord melts somewhere internally, often at the plug end, before the whole thing gets too hot. I've seen that happen. And I should point out that it's not a requirement in the U.S. for an appliance to be UL listed in order to be legal for sale. There's a huge number of desk and table lamps on the market that are not UL listed....See MoreWorking with 12 gauge wire
Comments (36)Jerry, there really wasn't anyone putting others down on a personal level. The problem is that people do come to forums like these seeking advice, and in general those people are seeking advice because they do not know anything about the subect being discussed. When these people hear something about using a propane torch to heat up electrical wires they may think that it is sound advice from someone in the know. I and others do not want to get into the molecular debate about why or why not to do it but simply want to make sure that people realize that it is noweher near common, is a hack job, and can be potentially dangerous. Therefore the easiest thing to do is to call such advice what it truly is - ridiculous. Doing this is not meant to "put others" down but is more along the lines of being a direct and matter of fact statement to NOT follow the bad advice. This has nothing to do with chest thumping but rather simply making sure that people get correct information, and in this case the correct information is to NOT use a propane torch to heat electrical wires. Usually this is common sense but... we all know there is not a huge amount of that left these days....See More12/3 wire vs 14/3
Comments (8)For regular appliance and lighting circuits: 14 ga wire needs a 15A breaker, 12 ga wire needs a 20A breaker. The reason electric baseboard heat is different is that it is a continuous constant load, no dips or peaks. In Canada, because we can use the full value of the circuit for this type of heating (not the 80% of circuit capacity rule), we multiply 240 volts X 15 amps and we get 3600 watts. If we run the full 3600 watts as allowed, it may trip the 15A breaker. That's why we are allowed to use a 20A breaker in this case. "Not touching" means not physically contacting the water pipe. Are you calling electric baseboard heat "strip heat"? Regardless, nominal household voltage is considered 120V, not 110. Each hot bus bar in the panel supplies 120V. There are 2 of these hot bus bars. By installing a double pole breaker, which is a breaker that has 2 joined handles on it, into the panel so that each stab of this breaker inserts into a different bus, you will get two separate 120V feeds for a total of 240V. To insure 240V from separate buses, the breaker must be inserted so that there is a plastic divider in the panel that literally splits the double breaker in half. One stab of the breaker goes above this divider, the other stab goes below. Most baseboard heat is 240V, so you would use a double pole breaker. The cable to the breaker would be 14/2 or 12/2, or even 10/2, depending on the watts of the heater/s. Each wire of the cable, white and black would connect to one of the two lugs of the double breaker. It doesn't matter which wire goes to which lug. The white wire should be marked with black felt or tape to indicate that it is indeed a hot wire. Any pro or DIY'er would see a white wire connected to a breaker and know that it's part of a 240V circuit. Note that no neutral wire is used or required for a straight 240V circuit. The ground wire is still required....See Moredavidandkasie
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