cawfecup and lavefm,

I haven't been on this forum for very long, but the two of you really gave me good advice and were very supportive when I had my SD issue a few weeks ago.

I'm not sure I thanked you properly for your kind words and good advice, but I really appreciated it. I'd really hate to see the two of you leave this forum for any reason.

When I first came here, I, too was attacked, quite aggressively, by the same two posters. I've watched other unsuspecting women in need of help have the same thing happen to them. Some never come back.

You're right, at least we don't have to deal with them personally. The one just got done tearing up and totally diminishing one young woman who came here for help. It was pathetic. Why would someone do that? To give them a different point of view? I don't think so.

Please keep posting.

I really began to feel a "bond" with some of the ladies on here, so I have been "lurking" just to check in on everybody. I had really decided not to post anymore, but I had to encourage angelz after yesterday and some of the posts.

Cawfe...I have a great deal of respect for you, so I am replying to you since you asked me a question. Yes, my SD got the piercing. It is a small post (size of a pinhead), so it is not as bad as it could be. She told me today that they told her she had to take it out at work, so she didn't what she was going to do. So, we'll see how it goes. Her BM signed the permission slip even after my DH said he did not agree, but that is par for the course. DH did send her a certified letter stating that if any infection occurred due to this piercing, BM would be responsible totally since he had been totally against the piercing.

Thank you june for the sweet words. I really hope that maybe this can become a place for support and tactful disagreement. I will continue to "lurk" (lol) and if it changes course, then I will post again. Wish you all the best.

I am glad her job told her to take it out .. rather than giving her the bandaid option.

I was lurking and saw you were "leaving" and wasn't sure about your SD needed closure I guess. :)

This will come off as a slam to angelz but it is not... she is in her 20's still has "fight" in her (I have some left in me too)...She was doing ok fighting back but you could tell by how she was typing she was getting flustered... 7 mos. preg newlywed 3 yr. old and 4yr old no wonder she is stressed out I know I would be. So she overreacted and said some stupid things ... I know I have said some really dumb things. There is no excuse for how she was made to feel... certain posters seem to think they know it all but in reality don't have a clue but are quick to jump down anyones throat who doesn't agree with them. I will never agree with certain posters.

Disagreeing is fine ... but the all out attacks have to stop.

While you see me as "attacking SMs", I see some SMs being really mean to Skids. Some seem to take out their hatred of mom on the child. Whatever the reason, or even perceived reason, this is just not justified. Just as you recommend this site to future SMs, I recommend it to moms. Reading some of these entries will be scary and will encourage moms to push for as little visitation for dad, unless dad is there. I highly recommend FROR to moms.

And if future SMs are egged on by SMs who admittedly are in difficult relationships, they should ask if they too want to be in difficult relationships. Yes, many times SM will have the upper hand (a lot of times Dad has more money for attorneys etc). And yes there are some dads who are struggling financially, statistics say this si much more likely for moms to have a tough time financially.

KK,

I mean this honestly, and not with any bad intent.

There are many bio-moms who feel the way you do, and
who are very angry that their ex- has re-married, and who
for very many reasons, resent her ex-husband's partner.

It is important for step-mothers or potential step-mothers
to know that the possibility exists that your husband or husband-to-be has an ex-wife who feels the way that KK does, and who may very well do things to make their life and marriage as difficult as possible, including to
undermine SM to her step-children.

I know that this has happened to me, and I would not have realized it could be this way.

It may seem like an attack from a bio-mom, but KK's feelings toward an ex-remarrying and step-moms are not unique. She seems to be very much like my husband's ex-wife in many ways.

Sometimes it is because her children tell her things
to prove their loyalty to her, that may be exaggerated.
Sometimes it is because her husband was unfaithful to her.
Sometimes it is because she is just angry that her marriage ended. Sometimes it is because what her children tell her is true.

Regardless, KK's do exist, and even though it is uncomfortable, it is important to know what they are thinking and how they respond to SM's like us.
It is a glimpse into another opinion, even if it is often hurtful. Bio-moms DO attack us in real life, for many different reasons. It is a fact of life.

I only said certain posters ... Are you feeling guilty for something?

I find the term SKids offensive.

We can't blame the child for their behavior so who do you blame?... someone has to be at fault. I usually blame both parents.

Many many future SM's are told right off the bat if they are not married to run, get out, get away, it will only get worse, do not cater to future hubby or kids let him do it. (go back and reread some) Most woman are maternal so they feel the need to mother anything in their care. I used mother as a verb not a noun.

As far as I can tell its usually the custodial parent (mother or father) who suffers more financially. NCP pays a percentage of their wages toward CS, CP most likely uses all of their wages for CS.

Finances aside.... does it benefit a child to be spoiled and catered to by anyone? Will future employers cater to them? Will future spouses cater to them? How are we teaching them to be adults if we hand them everything?

Nobody is entitled to anything we need to earn it.

Good for you, you want to protect your daughters inheritence. But in the mean time you are fooling yourself if you think you are hiding your bitterness toward your ex and his GF from your daughter. She sees it and knows you are bitter ... how is that benefitting her? is it helping her to become a well adjusted adult?

Why would anyone WANT their children to be fond of a woman (or man) who committed the crime of adultery, who destroyed a marriage, who tried to prevent their father from spending time with his children, who was responsible for causing financial hardship for the children, who tried to prevent them from attending an appropriate college that would have been affordable but for her actions, who wish the children would just disappear? I know posters here have claimed that my exH's current wife is not typical, but I don't think such behavior is all that uncommon. And there are far more who engage in a subset of these practices - including some posters on this forum.

Only an irresponsible parent would try to hide the fact that someone with whom their children have to deal is immoral or a bad influence - and it makes no difference whether that person is a parent's new spouse, a teacher, an uncle, or the neighborhood drug dealer.

Cawfe,

Yes, I assumed some of your points were about me. No, I dont feel guilty. I dont think I have done anything to feel guilty about.

You find the term skids offensive? What would you prefer? I find the term stepmom offensive. I prefer Dad's GF, or if they ever get married, Dad's wife.

I dont care if Dads GF or wife resents me or hates me. What I was saying is that some posters take this resentment on defenseless child.

If you are saying that custodial parent suffers more financially, you may be right. Most moms are custodial.

Spoiled and catered to are subjective. And many SMs are not objective enough, and in a conflict of interest situation (less money for child = more money for them). That is an inherently difficult situation. I dont give my daughter designer purses etc -- that comes from the other house.

As to values -- at least my daughter says she will never date a married man.

Cawfe....I feel (and these are just my feelings) that there tends to be a "lumping" together of people in many posters minds. As I have said before, I am a bio mom who was left for another woman (who my ex eventually married), so I know the absolute devastation this causes. My ex has CHOSEN not to be in our son's life, but it has not once crossed my mind to blame his wife. Maybe she is the cause..who knows? But I have always felt the blame squarely belonged to him as he is a grown person and accuses are not acceptable. Even though I don't understand his reasons, I have forgiven him and moved on for my sake and more importantly my child's sake because a bitter person is not a good mother for my son. I want him to look back and see his mother as resilient, and I don't ever want him to believe his happiness is in the hands of anyone else. I want him to know that if anyone leaves him or abandons him, there is still life, and hope and joy. The rare times I do speak to his father, we are able to be polite, and I have detached myself from the anger.

Now, my second role is that of step-mom. I can totally accept there are good ones and bad ones. Just as there are good bio moms/dads and bad bio mom/dads. I didn't steal my DH from his wife. She kicked him out, and I appreciate it (most of the time lol). I desperately love my stepdaughters. If I truly love their father, how can I not love people that are half of him and all of his heart. Do I struggle? YES! Do I need advice on how to deal with teenage angst, and disrespect? YES! Does my DH always stand up for me and insist they respect me? NO...that is why I am here. Do I feel their bio mom intentionallly does things to cause rifts in our home? YES! Maybe I am wrong, but I feel that way none the less. I come here to vent, have others tell me what they think, give me their experiences, etc. I expected us to be able to talk to one another and give counsel. And on some level, I expected acceptance that there are bio moms who are not perfect, and step-moms who aren't either. I truly believe that most step-moms who post here TRYING! They may post in anger and frustration, but they are reaching out, which means they need help and they recognize it. Just my thoughts....

I think one thing everyone on this board needs to remember is that the one reason we're all here is we want things to be better with our families.

That's probably the best thing about this board is the ability to probe the minds of the "other side" in a safe fashion and without upsetting members of one's own family.

My hat's off to everyone who posts here, whether SM, SK, BM or DH.

Lavefm & Lily,

That was very well said.

I have been in Lavefm's shoes...both sets.

If some of the posters here are bitter...then that's where they are in their journey. There was a time that I went through some really sadness when my first marriage broke up.
Maybe I was bitter...I don't know. But maybe the posters who seem to be extremely bitter are on their way to better things and that's where they are now. Maybe this is the only place they have to vent. Maybe we are the only step-mothers or second wives that they can yell at. I can
understand that. It's just that at times I am in a bad place, and I don't have the energy or the strength to be vented at. There are times in my life that I am not in the mood to be vented at by my real life DH's ex-wife, either.

True, that we all want our families and our lives to be better. Someday, today's ex-wives may be tomorrow's Stepmothers. KARMA!

its not about relations between Xs -- its about the children.

Any today's SMs may be tomorrows X-wifes. Karma

southern...that was a great point about a journey. I am glad you made me think back on my own journey. It took me several years to get to the place I am now with my ex. I remember a couple of years after my divorce, a good friend of mine (male) told me he was proud of the progress I had made because for a while he thought I was going to become a man-hater. I asked him what he meant because I didn't think I had the attitude at all. (I have many awesome male family members and friends in my life). He reminded me of a dinner we had with a group of friends and some comments I had made at dinner. I totally saw what he was saying and it made me realize I hadn't even see the negativity I was spewing because I was in so much pain at the time. So sometimes it takes someone else pointing it out to us. We do the best we can with what we know at the time. When we know more, we do better. At least that is my goal in life.

its not about relations between Xs -- its about the children.

If we want the best for our children, we will work hard to have a good relationship with our X. It is horrible for children to feel there is anxiety and tension between the two most important people in their life.

It is difficult to have any relationship with your exH, good or bad, if he is not allowed to talk to you without the supervision and constant interruptions of the new wife, and if his email is monitored and most responses are written by her.

TOS,
Just curious, before the new wife did you and DH have good/bad relationship?...
When did the constant interruptions start?

There wasn't a "before" - assuming you mean after he left and before he began to live with her. He went directly from our home to hers. The interruptions started immediately - her emailing me pretending to be my H, a therapist, another betrayed spouse... My H has not denied that she writes the emails. The phone interruptions started one of the first times he called me other than from work - it is obvious her telling him what to say annoys him almost as much as it does me - I can tell by the irritation in his voice that wasn't there seconds before she interrupted.

hi, KK

I know that you are in a place in your life that
you cannot empathize with me. But I can empathize with
you, because I have been in your shoes.
I wish you well, and I hope that you find peace in your life.

kkny & tos, At first I was taken back by you two, however, over time I have come to see you two as my DH's X. "I" FEEL you have hate, negativity, and anger inside your responses. However, I remind myself you have come from totally different situations than I have and I should not judge you. I try to see your side and what you have been through and I do feel bad for you. I too have an X who cheated on me, but I let it go a long time ago.

My situtation is different than yours, my DH's X left him for another man, got married, and divorced her second husband in 5 months. I know this is true, because the stepchildren and DH's family has told me about it, besides DH telling me.

It is true this is all about the children and I do believe divorce does influence children to develop life problems. Divorce guilt, hate, anger, saddness, resentment, etc. from their bio parent's attitudes effect their children alot.

I know from my experience I came into my current relationship with a divorce from a man I was married to for 18 years (he had a mid life crisis), no children, and was pursued by my DH for months (he was divorced) before I agreed to date him. Him and I wanted a good relationship, wanted the best for his kids, for us, and even his X.
However, about a year or so after we started dating the stepkids influenced by their mother who was now alone, twice divorced, and regreted the mistake of fooling around on her first husband (my BF/fiance) started to cause problems. Everything was a problem for the X and the stepkids when it came to anything DH and myself were trying to achieve.

It was obvious the kids were in the middle of their bio parents conflicts. The kids listened to the negative verbal comments made by their mom. They began to attempt to break us up and get mom and dad back together. It hurt. DH finally had to take the step kids aside and tell them that their mother a couple years early wanted out of the marriage so he let her out and now he had started a new life and they needed to let it go and leave it alone.

I could go on and on about all the things the X and the stepkids attempted to do to cause trouble in our relationship. It is sooooo very sad. And YES I kept on trying to be nice to everyone even the X. Even when one gets tired of being stabbed in the back.

KKNY & TOS, what I am trying to say is that there are many DIFFERENT types of situations within a stepfamily setting. There are many different kinds of people and NO situation is exactly the same. We are here to HELP others get through hard times and give examples of what may have worked for us or may have not worked. IT IS ABOUT HELPING OTHERS and NOT ABOUT JUDGING OTHERS from what we experenced. EVERY SITUATION IS DIFFERENT.

Keep posting about your experiences in a helpful positive mannner so we can all learm from them, but please do not HURT others because of the hurt you have experienced. Thanks

My ex left for the other woman his ex left for the other man.

So we should sit all the children down and tell them your parent left us for another person? How does that make the children feel any better about the whole situation ... It does not. They do not need to know certain things. Yes they will find out eventually but we are not the ones that will be telling them.

My ex has been with the ow for about 7 years ... she is good to ex and good to my kids... Do I want to be her best friend? NO Do I need to be cordial with her for the sake of the kids yes.

My hubbys ex left for the other man. Do I have to be cordial with her yes. Am I responsible for the day to day care of her children yes. Am I their mother(noun) NO. Do I mother(verb) them YES.

What kind of woman would I be ... If I did not care for children who were in my care if I sat back and did nothing for them. Its not in me to sit back and do nothing. Even when I was just the GF BM relied on me to take care of her children when she was busy ... she found out where I worked and dropped off her 3 children to at my job an hour away from where she lives. Because she had to do something and couldn't take the kids. I should have known right then what I was in for but was blinded.

My problem with the attacks is we defend ourselves and state our case and still are attacked for it all it doesn't matter what we do as SM's we are always wrong. I am a full-time caregiver. The children spend more time with me than they do either parent. If I were not here they would spend more time in a daycare center or with others than they do their parents. Their father works full-time and their mother only takes them when the court tells her she has to. If there wasn't a court order in place she would not even bother to spend any time with her children.

We have given her an open door policy to spend time with her children we have even compensated her to spend time with her children. She is court ordered to take her children for two weeks in the summer. We had to "pay her" $184.00 (food shopping) $50 in cash. BTW thats more than her child support. That was for one week. She has no plans on taking them the second week. "Threatens" to go back to court I wish she would.

She is ordered to pay 50% of all non-covered medical expenses.... I took the children to the drs on friday... dad was working and she was too busy, she met me at the drs. office could have gone in with us but didn't (even though she isn't legally working). I called her to tell her what the dr said and told her how much out of pocket expenses were for the day $105.00 between co-oays and medicine. And they all need to go back in two weeks for rechecks (strep throat) so that will be another $45 in co-pays ... well I don't have any money so make sure they eat before I pick them up on sunday.

Why do I communicate with her.... because she would call hubby many times per day to change times. I would ask him when he got home did she call what did she say. He would not remember. Asked her a zillion times not to call him at work because he doesn't remember what you are telling him. So now I communicate with her and there is structure in times and places. The children know when they are coming and going. She still changes times daily but atleast I know what they are ... I can keep the kids hanging around the house until she is coming ... so she doesn't have to pick them up at friends or at the beach.

Yesterday she picked them up at 1:45pm she will be dropping them off at 1:45 today. If she thinks I am doing such a horrible job with her children why doesn't she keep them until hubby is home from work at 4:45pm? Not like she has to be at work.

Ok I am rambling now....

"Only an irresponsible parent would try to hide the fact that someone with whom their children have to deal is immoral or a bad influence - and it makes no difference whether that person is a parent's new spouse, a teacher, an uncle, or the neighborhood drug dealer."

theotherside, I completely agree, but what if the immoral person who is acting as a bad influence to the children is the noncustodial mother? What recourse would you advise my husband to take? We have often been put in a position where we try to rationalize and downplay the actions of their mother in order to protect them from the truth that their mother prefers any random Joe over them. Rather than telling them the horrible truth, that their mother does not want to see them, we let them continue to believe what their mother tells them, we won't let her see them. It's better for us to appear mean than it is for them to think that their mother, the woman who gave birth to them, the woman who devoted her entire life to them until she decided that she needed to find herself and dumped them, doesn't want them any longer, doesn't value them, doesn't care when they feel sad or hurt or angry. As much as I dislike her, I don't think I could hurt the girls with the truth nor do I feel the least bit guilty for lying because I'd rather be called a liar than see the glimmer in their eyes slowly fade away. No matter how much I love them, it would never make up for the loss of love from their mother, so do I continue to "protect" her or do I tell them the truth? What would be your honest advice?

My advice - always tell the children the truth. If it is not true that you won't let her see them, they should know that. If the marriage ended because she had an affair, they should know that.

However, you would not be able to tell them that she doesn't love them or doesn't value them, because that is an opinion, not a demonstrable fact. It is, as they say, speculation.

Actually "you" should not be telling them anything about their mother. That is their father's job.

If he thinks the mother has done something wrong, such as having an affair, it is his job to tell the children that. It is his job to tell the children what he believes is wrong and right.

That doesn't mean the child has to agree with their parent's assessment.

I understand your situation and would be angry if your husband's new wife tried to insert herself in your children's lives, however, my situation is quite different and my stepdaugthers not only fully accept me but they expect me to be there for them 100%. No, I am not their mother, I will never be their mother, but I will continue my role as female head of the household despite the fact that they are not my biological children. We mutually care about each other. They trust that I will always try to act in their best interests and, being the most wonderful stepdaughters imaginable, they also understand that I am human and make mistakes. It's a continual learning experience and it works for us.

Given that, I think it would crush them if I (or my husband) validated what I think they already know deep down in their hearts.

I think it will crush them when they discover that their father lied to them for years.

My older kids were angry and hurt merely because I didn't share my suspicions of their father's infidelity when they were merely suspicions.