Cawfe, your DH needs deal with this issue NOW.

I haven't posted in a while, but I have been reading the board pretty regularly. It's been a stressful last few months for our family. To recap, 16 yo SS, who lived with us, was arrested for DUI a year ago. We grounded him for the summer. Once his punishment was over, he started coming home drunk, denying it, although it was so painfully obvious. It put huge stresses on our family, as my DH commutes to work in NYC while we live outside Chicago, so I am the parent in charge during his absence. I had to be the "bad guy," with son denying bad behavior, DH thinking I am overly suspicious and hard on the kids. BioMom moved back to Chicago area because son "needed" her, so after SS turned 17, he decided that he no longer needed a curfew, despite the fact he was only a jr. in high school AND had a DUI on his record. He ended up staying out two nights in a row, told his father DH needed to choose between stepmom and son, said he hated SM's rules (curfew, let me know where you are and if you are not going to be home for dinner, stuff like that), and he wanted to go live with his mom, who was happy to "save" him from this miserable life with us. After that, it was all down hill. BioMom allowed him to stay out all weekend, drink in her basement with his friends, no rules, no consequences. SS started using cocaine, and was drinking and using every single day. BioMom went out of town one weekend in March, leaving SS alone to host an underage drinking and drug party. This precipitated in a psychotic episode where he self-injured, requiring hospitalization and over 20 stitches. He has been in residential treatment since March, first a psychiatric residential treatment center in Idaho for two months, then a substance abuse residential treatment center in Pennsylvania for 31 days (he ran away when he learned he was staying an additional 90 days), and now a combined psychiatric/substance abuse residential treatment center in North Carolina. None of which is covered by insurance, and all of which DH is paying.

What was my point? Oh, yes, a year ago, when SS first starting drinking, or rather, started getting caught drinking, I was saying, like a broken record to DH and BioMom, "I think SS has a drinking problem that needs to be addressed." DH said, maybe you're right, and did nothing. BioMom said, it's a phase all teens go through, he'll grow out of it. No one did anything, and this is where we are today.

We also have younger children at home who do not need to be exposed to any of this.

What to do? First, DH really has to take the lead on this. Please stay out of "tattling" on her to grandparents. If it's something they need to know, let DH tell them.

If she wants to live in your home, she has to live by your rules. It doesn't matter how old she is or how "grown up" she is. Your home, your rules. There will be no underage drinking. It is against the law. If you provide her with a car and insurance, that is the first thing to go. Keep in mind, if it is your vehicle and insurance, and she is involved in a drunk driving accident, it is your liability. So you have every right to take away that privelege.

Does she have a cell phone that you pay for? Take it away. The substance abuse residential treatment center in Pennsylvania requires parents to attend a family education weekend. One of the things we learned to do upon our child returning home is to strip them of priveleges, like a car, a cell phone, late curfew. These are all priveleges, not rights, and they need to be earned back - the priveleges are behavior-based, not age-based. (In other words, our 17 yo son will have an earlier curfew than our 14 yo daughter.)

What is your 18 yo doing? Is she still in high school? College? Does she work at all?

cawfecup,

I will also get it for this too. I did the same thing when I was her age. But I was on my own, living with my long term boyfriend, as an adult. I paid bills as an adult, so I lived as an adult.

If she was your daughter I would tell you she needs a good ole fashion butt whooping! But since she is not this makes things difficult since many people hear don't agree to SM disciplining SC. This is my house is not the case, DH and I spoke of this, if SD does things that are considered wrong then I have the right to discipline. Time out, and eventually spankings if need be, as she is only 4 and I knew to the marriage I have chosen to hold off on disciplining her until she and I have established boundaries.

But I think you should think about talking to DH about treatment, maybe a teen camp for troubled children, as this will only get worse. I wish someone would have done something for me before I had hit rock bottom. I am a SD and a SP, and believe me I needed it as a teen who was in trouble!

Just remember this isn't being disrespectful, or nasty to an adult this could possibly cause her her life! She could wind up in Jail, or worse.

It's a fact of life hun, most families go through this even though they don't admit it. Do not let anyone say any different!

Thanks for responding I remember your story about your SS and his drinking.

She comes home after he is in bed for the night and she leaves before he gets home from work. Heavy sleeper I am not I hear when any of the children rustle around get up or come home or leave. I sleep like a brick unless its one of the kids moving around.

She pays for her own cell phone she works part-time. Took hers away last summer when she ran the bill up over $1000 in less than two months...(the grandparents give her anything she wants and pay her bills). They gave her the car but hubby pays the insurance. There isn't any curfew never really needed one she came home at a decent hour until she turned 18.

No she isn't going to college barely made it through HS. Told hubby last night he needs to take away the car unless its for work or I would take her to work and he could pick her up after work until she can afford her own insurance premiums. The younger ones are going to their mothers tonight he said last night he would talk about it with her today.

She just came in and asked me if I knew where her knife was I told her her father has it. She said where I said I don't I guess in his van. Not sure if she saw the backpack on the side of the chair. with the booze in it.

Does she want to get caught? Is that why she is bringing it in the house?

Doubt it, regardless of what you hear kids don't bring things like that home thinking I want to get caught. She is just that relaxed in the idea she wont get caught, and if she does "daddy" wont do anything about it. She's 18 she is a grown adult in her eyes, the way all 18 year olds feel.

YEAH! I am so happy you are back. You need to insist DH do something about this NOW! First of all, your children have already been endangered because they drank the alcohol thinking it was soda. That would have been enough to make me want to ring her neck. I definitely would not allow her to use the car. That is endangering her life and the life of innocent people. They do have a device you can buy and attach to a car's ignition that requires the driver to breathe in and take a test before the car can be started. I think I would be installing that on the car. This is something that cannot be ignored. She is underage AND BREAKING THE LAW. This has got to be a non-negotiable. Hugs and Best Wishes!

To angelz ... yeah she knows he "won't be too hard on her" She believes she has him wrapped around her finger. Because he won't argue with her not worth it she calls his mom and "tells on hiim" and because they are wealthy what ever it is that daddy won't buy for her the grandparents will.

I know its a fact of life and so does she ... her mother is an addict surviving in florida somewhere has had no contact with her in 14 years. Alcoholism runs in fathers family too which is why hubby does not drink. His ex-wife her first SM is an alcoholic as well.

Discipline is not an issue in our home I am in charge when daddy is not home no ifs ands or buts. I have 100% support when it comes to the younger ones. The 18 yr old well thats a different story. She thinks she is his wife/mother. but then again don't all 18 yr olds think they are the parent :).

Thanks lavefm... We went through the whole your gonna kill someone you will go to jail insurance is going to be expensive, if your younger siblings get drunk they tell their mother or a teacher you have booze in the house and they drink and we do nothing about it ... we as the parents will be arrested and you as an "18 yr old adult" will be told to find a new place to live, but she is 18 knows it all ... we can't tell her any different.

With drinking comes a lot of responsiblility and at 18 you are not prepared to deal with what life will hand if you are drunk. I am just waiting for the "I can stop anytime I want to" speech. :(

I am worried for her if noone steps in what is going to happen to her.

She is not necessarily endagering any one else's life... I dont think that I read anywhere that she is driving or coming home drunk or any of the above. Also, I drank when I was 18 and I think most of us did. However, I did not do so in my parents homes in secret.

I think this one is very very simple if she wants to act like an adult she needs to do it outside of your home ie; its time to send her packing. You are still responsible if anything were to happen to her(or even worse one of the kids getting ahold of more than just a sip of alcohol) in your home while drinking because she is underage for drinking... a friend of mine got into major trouble when her 18 year old had friends over while parents were out and one of the kids ended up with alcohol poisoning since it is your home and you are over 21 you can and will be held responsible. On the same note however, she is 18 and in my opinion it is not really that big of a deal as long as she is handling it responsibly ... (outside of your home that is) I would lecture her on the dangers ...give her a deadline to move and move on...

GRR. Just lost a long post about this. Here goes the short version:

You don't want to tattle, but all adults concerned need to be alert to the new habit. How is she getting it? Friends of age? Stores being lax? Fake ID? It's disappearing by the bottle, not small amounts! Alcohol is the gateway to bigger problems as seen w/ tamar's story.

Secondly, privileges need to be earned. She's drinking and lying. Don't let her get behind the wheel and kill someone. The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. Have DH tell the adults of your concerns (shouldn't be from you) and have everyone start driving her around til you feel she's earned back the car.

Had two issues w/ my youngest nephew: Once, made penne w/ vodka cream sauce, he and a friend were in the kitchen late, tasted it, said it was water (their faces told me otherwise when I caught them.) Lectured, period. Didn't tell anyone else. Second incident last summer - nephew now 15, smelled smoke on him. Lied about it, made him breathe on me and then I smelled his fingers that he'd hold the cigarette w/...said, "This is part of my life's work. You can't lie to me..." He went to bed, waited five min, called me up there and confessed. This time I told my brother and let him tell his ex (they are seeing each other again) and I told my parents (kids are w/ them a lot.) No one smokes, brother is the only one who drinks, cousin caused us all a lot of pain w/ drinking, drugs til he went to rehab. I've never tried drinking, drugs or cigarettes - never wanted to disappoint my parents. I'm afraid SD doesn't have that feeling so it's tough. Nephew didn't want me to think badly of him - told him of a patient I just lost to oral cancer, tried the scare tactics, anything, but kids often don't listen. So far so good w/ him, though.

The reason I told on the second issue was that I felt the adults needed to be aware. Privileges lost. This boy isn't a good student (has ADHD w/ non-specified learning disabilities.) I don't want him in w/ the feel good group. He needed to change peer groups and it could only happen w/ all of us united together. So far, so good.

Your SD needs that same united front, but let DH be the one to tell the others. You're the mother, but "not the mother" for any real issues as most will point out. The BM will be defensive if it comes from you.

Talk to SD about a vocation. Dental assts. here start at $11-12/hr then go up to $20/hr. Not bad for less than a year of school. Hygienists make around $250/day here for a two year program (some require the assisting school be done first, but not all.) No real responsibilities, no malpractice ins, etc. A great profession a non-college bound girl.

She needs goals and self-esteem. She must lack both, but hides the latter behind a tough front?

Get her into an alcohol awareness class if you can. Educate her and pray she'll listen and drop the friends. Are their boyfriends, too?

Good luck,
Dana

LOL, yeah I remember thinking I could run circle's around my family when I was younger. Then when I got to big for my britches my mom and SD would put me in my place. I might not be able to sit for a few hours but at 16 before I moved out I wasn't to old for an "attitude adjustment" as my parents called it.

Yeah that I can stop anytime I want to speech, if she only knew! By the time she wants to stop it will be to late!

We don't know if she is coming home drunk she comes home after midnight most days ... I have to be up at 5 am with the hubby and the 11 yr old so I get to bed at 11 pm. Yes I have it so easy being a SAHM my days start at 5 am and continue till 11 pm :) 18 hour days no pay only the joy of bringing up someone else's children (smirks).

We have tried the vocational school idea she is just not interested right now ... taking a year off to find herself. Guessing the bottom of a bottle you can see your future clearly (liquor goggles).

I was thinking an AA meeting .. tell her I am going somewhere for information on how to deal with the little ones mother.

I just remembered around christmas time her coming home and popping what a handful of tictacs .. she said she had a garlic pizza now wondering .. was she covering booze? I am in such denial I guess. I know my daughter came home a time or two after smoking pot and I called her on it immediately. And the one time when she was like 19 hammered but had called her father for a ride home. Didn't drink as far as we knew till she was like 21 1/2 (what do you think I wanna be like daddy!!)

Hi Cawfe,

Well, speaking from experience (not with my SS's but personal experience in my own family) you and DH have to be on the same page, and have a zero tolerance policy. It sounds like she's got some issues. (no direction, not in school "taking time off to find herself", part time job, drinking, knife?)
These all add up to trouble, and frankly I think that she already has a problem. If DH doesn't take a zero tolerance policy with this, it's a good chance her behavior will escalate and get much worse. I personally don't believe that underage drinking (on the level that she has booze in her room and on her person) is a "phase". This is problem drinking. So, my suggestion would be to get DH and or yourself to al-anon. I'm sure there are meetings in your area. This will be the first step you and DH can take to help her get back on track, and not end up enabling her.
Just my opinion, but I have had some family experience with this as well...
I hope that you and DH can help her out.

Hi, Cawfe

I have been in your shoes with my SS.

The first issue we were aware of, was when our friend smelled liquor on SS's breath when he was driving my 2 kids.

I complained, but DH didn't take it seriously, until
SS got a DUI going 80 miles an hour.

THEN, DH took it seriously.

We took SS to an inpatient / outpatient drug and alcohol
treatment center, and they tested him as an outpatient.
DH sold SS's car, and withdrew him from his quarter at college to go to rehab.

We didn't have to ground SS--when he didn't have a car that took care of it.

We saw all of the same signs that you are seeing.

If DH isn't impressed now, it's just a matter of time.
Hopefully, she won't get hurt or hurt someone else before
she gets help.

Cawfe - what is the knife deal? I didn't get that, but I'm a little sheltered. She's not a cutter or anything is she?

Do you think she's depressed? Is there a bf? What is her relationship like w/ her mother? I know this mother makes a lot of choices that I wouldn't, but how will she react to this?

And it was your bioDD that had the incident? Your ex drank? If so, that makes you either completely abstain or fall right into that trap it seems. I guess she found a decent balance.

Anyway, what is DH's reaction? I think Al-Anon is a great suggestion for you two. I know, no time, etc. I never went when we had the years of issues w/ my cousin. I wasn't the primary enabler, though. I think it would have helped my whole family. Even now, I have no time for this marriage counselor, but you've even commented on my tune changing towards SD and now I'm working on it w/ DH, lol. If you can, try to sit in on a meeting and ask those who have been there for advice. You don't know if this is a little experimentation or the start of something really bad. I tend to agree w/ jessegirl, however, in that this is BOTTLES hidden in her room, etc. I think I'd not overreact if she was at a party (or you made penne a la vodka, lol) and maybe a few of them had a couple of drinks and you smelled it on her.

Good luck. You don't need this. BTW, how do you think the skids view you? I know they were worried weeks back about their mother forgetting them, not feeding them, etc. Surely at this one's age, that isn't an issue. Does she go w/ BM, too?

D

We sat her down last night for a chat turned into a battle as it always does with an 18 yr old ... they know everything or atleast that's what she says .. do you know ...blah blah blah could happen... I know I know blah blah blah.

Asked her if she needed help with rehad or counselor someone to talk to ... her response I don't drink that much I laughed at 18 you shouldn't be drinking at all.

Wanted the knife back she had bought it for the BF but he is in Europe for 3 weeks so when he gets back he can ask your dad for it, because you are not getting it back.

The whole issue with the knife is the younger ones are very violent towards each other ... if they knew a knife was readily available they could/might/ use the knife against each other. The 11 yr old came after me with a chef's knife in november of 05 in one of his fits (he is much better now).

And yes vista she has cut herself in the past. I didn't even think of that last night when she was flipping about getting it back. She didn't want the liquor back (of course not you can get more liquor just can't get another knife)

She does not have a relationship with her mother has not seen her mother in 14 years. She is know where to be found we don't even know if she is still alive. Last we knew she was living in florida or kentucky.

Yes the incident was with my daughter... but again as far as I knew a one time event.

Hubby knows its a big deal... he took her plates off her car last night. Told her until she can get it in her name she will not be driving it under his insurance. Her response was I am going to save my money and move out and his reply what are you gonna do the next week. You know you can't afford to move out but you will abide by the rules of this house no drinking no weapons if you cannot abide by the rules of this house you will be asked to find a new place to live.

She was fine this morning we talked casually, a friend picked her up. She will be gone for the day.

CAWFECUP! That was great on DH's part!!! I am happy that he stepped up and took the plates off the car and told her no more! LOL funny how all kids response entail I'm moving out then, 9 times out of 10 it never happens.

Wow the 11 year old came after you with a chef's knife, that's some crazy stuff. I am glad you weren't harmed.

Oh yuck!... I think you're very wise to be so concerned and I'll keep my fingers crossed for a mild ride...

In my book, social drinking with friends at parties at age 18 is within the "normal" range of teenage activities, but having empty bottles rolling around inside drawers and rum-filled soda cans is "problem" behavior. Not to mention the knife! Drinking alone in her room and having empty bottles hidden are both signs of a possibly serious problem.

I imagine you're aware that a vulnerability to substance addiction is an inherited trait? And that with alcoholism on both sides of her biological family tree, your SD is very vulnerable to alcoholism? Is this a point that was brought home to her in the strongest possible terms? Seems every 18 year old knows that they personally are invincible -- but the stats show otherwise...

Al-Anon is a great place to get more information. I can't imagine a better group of people to help you and your DH sort out just how big of a problem this is likely to be at this stage -- Is it something you will be likely able to handle on your own with guidance and discipline? Or is rehab called for? (I can't see rehab actually working until your SD believes she has a problem that is beyond her own ability to control.) And what type of interventions and control strategies to they advocate?

It's good your DH took the car plates away, but at some point, she'll probably get to drive again. When I was a teenager, my parents had a policy that turned out to be very effective at helping me learn to set my own limits. I had a curfew, and the house rule was that when I came in, I had to wake up Mom and spend a few minutes talking with her about where I had gone and what I had done (though they always knew where I was going in advance also.) That simple late-night conversation was enough to assure my mom that when I came in, it would be on time, and that I wouldn't be so drunk that I couldn't pass the 'coherent conversation' test. That didn't stop me entirely from underage drinking, but it did prevent me from underage OVER-drinking. It might be something to consider if you conclude your SD's drinking may be controllable.

My SC have come a long way!!! They are not the same children I met a few years ago :). The incident with the 11 yr old ... he was strangling his brother with a rope ... so I took the rope and cut it up with the knife so he couldn't use the rope to choke his brother again. My fault I left it on the counter turned around to throw the cut up pieces of rope away and he picked up the knife came after me ... whacked it out of his hand. Then his father dealt with him.

They were FULL BOTTLES OF LIQUOR, 4 12 oz. smirnoffs twisters and a full 1/5 of barcardi raspberry rum. She said "well if I can't keep stuff in my room I'll just keep it in the car" ... that's when he said he was taking the plates ... you're not going to even transport booze in "MY CAR" he said.

I asked all those times you couldn't go to school because you were "sick" were they hangovers? Do we have to do a breath check when you come home at night? Do you want to be treated like an adult or a child? These are decisions you have to make .. why can't you trust me ?? because you have shown you can't be trusted. I am not my mother she says.... your mother didn't start with drinking or drugs till she turned 21 you're starting at 18 where do you think you are going to end up?

And the other issue we brought up is ... 3 of her friends are not 18 yet ... so what happens if their parents find out you are drinking with their kids? Do we have to call your friends parents and tell them you're a drinker and let them make a decision for their underage children to be with you or not? With being 18 comes a lot of responsibility and with drinking brings even more responsibility. Are you prepared to go to jail? Her dad said ... if you end up in jail because of alcolhol you will stay there until the court system releases you I will not be bailing you out.

We know kids will kids we were all kids once ... Just wanted to know how big a deal the drinking is?? how serious is it? Dad said ... ok so why are you stockpiling booze planning a piercing party or tattoo party need it for pain relief ... she screamed you are stressing me out ... he asked do you need a drink ???.. drunks usually drink when they are stressed!!!