Sorry that your marriage ended that way -- and he did allow himself to be chased, then caught, right? She doesn't deserve all the blame.

As for buying her things that you can't afford....that is YOUR issue, not theirs. If GF has money and wants to share it, don't begrudge her that. I hope you taught your daughter that while "nice things" are nice, they do not define you; and that being treated with respect and kindness is more important than being "treated" with expensive things.

As for coming off noble...I am not trying to be noble at all. If I had my way, we would not give a single cent to my SD -- because she doesn't deserve it. My SS? Anything we can do for him (as responsible parents), we will do/buy. One of my husband's bonuses this year was a stock certificate....and it was not too shabby....well I am the one who said "let's not even cash that -- let's save it for [SS's] for college"

When my SS was feeling us out (and being brainwashed by his mother about what he is entitled to).....we nipped it in the bud, and he is much better. My favorite was when he thought we should sell investments or buy fewer groceries because he wanted more tennis lessons!! Even though we spent hundreds a month already and even though he never called anyone to hit (for free)....and even though we could afford it. We needed him to learn that HE needed to be creative and find ways to play that didn't cost money (duh, call a friend)...etc. I can ASSURE you that BM made this about SM not wanting to spend money on her darling children and he bought into it. Well we're a year later and his entire attitude is different and.....he gets more! Because he appreciates it, he works for it, and he "gets" it!

And, conversely, you and my BM seem to want to drive this point home more than anything......so you try to get every cent you can out of DH just to make your point. (no, seriously, we once got a $.70 toll charged back to us! haha! Seventy Cents!! Hello?!!!!)

Oh, and finally.....I make a darn good living and I contribute substantially to my SS's lifestyle. In fact, I was the one who came along with money to furnish the house (he lost most of it in the divorce!) and to create a home for the child (literally rooms were empty and though the house was nice, my husband had no money left to furnish it or make it homey). So, I don't want their money, but I'm not shelling out a fortune to sustain a spoiled brat who doesn't appreciate a thing either.

Not worth your time to explain things with her. She has tunnel vision only sees dollar signs at the end of the tunnel.

No one should even look at a man if he has a kid(s). He should be alone for the rest of his life because he had children. Doesn't matter how badly the babies momma treated him cheated did whatever he has kids, he is used goods and no one should even bother with him. Once a man has children they should be the only focus of his life other than his paycheck and what other possessions he has so the children will one day be entitled to everything he has.

Men should not have a right to enjoy life because they have children. They should just mull along protecting their assests so that their children can profit from them. The children are entitled to everything. If he goes out of town to bury his former wife his children can break into his home and steal from him because they are entitled to everything.

Men should not have nice cars because evil wenches will chase them until they can no longer think for themselves and be cast under the evil wenches spell. Make him leave his wife and children. Then the evil wench sits back and cackles how she is spending her own money.

Even though babies momma has wonderful children ... no one else could possibly love and care for another womans kids. Just not possible. Babies momma was a drug addict she still a wonderful person. Doesn't matter what bad habits the babies momma has she is still their mother she could be as useless as teats on a bull. Doesn't matter she is still their momma and needs to put up on a pedestal because she birthed them. She gave birth and walked away a few years later ... poor thing. Didn't bother to even attempt to fight for her children but she should be hailed as a saint because she gave birth to children.

So basically ... all "real" mothers should be hailed as saints and "real" fathers should be just as miserable before and after the divorce. Its all the fathers faults any way ... no woman would ever cheat on her husband or leave her children with such a horrible man that she once loved and cared for even though that mother knows that father has more maternal skills than his wonderful wife would ever have. A father should give up hope of ever finding any happiness other than in his children who will eventually grow up and be on their own. But then come back when they are entitled to dads assets.

I get it ... I am the fool for even looking at my hubby because he had children. Its my fault. I am the evil one. Even though he is a wonderful man he should just work and watch his assets so his children can benefit from the work he does because they are entitled to it.

Jersey,

So your DH owns home, but you provided furniture. Quite a difference in my book, but OK (and I assume you live in NJ, a relatively high cost state). This is helpful, becuase it presents what Xs GF might say. She did bring some furniture with her.

I never said anything about the purse. It is up to X to suggest thank yous for presents from GF. I take care of making certain DD sends her Dad birthday, Xmas gifts, fathers day cards, mothers day cards and presents to his mom. He of course, does not reciprocate.

And yes, he is part to blame for affair, but that doesnt mean that she is off the hook.

And before you call me jealous, your probably right. I am never going to look like I am south of 50.

Heah, so you support affairs. Glad to know. Second marriages break up at a higher rate than first. And you as a SAHM with only school age children, have such a hard life.

Oy KKNY, you're killing me! Ok, I did not "bring" furniture, WE bought furniture together with my money. My husband had the house we live in......but I also had a house! However, since we wanted to actually live together after we married.....I sold mine (oh, and moved away from family and friends...know why? So that my SS didn't have to move out of his school to accommodate me!) Yes in NJ, yes very expensive!

With regard to the purse, I did not say "say something" I said if you raised your daughter to be grounded and confident, then she will know the difference between someone who gives her an expensive item (and it mean to her) and a person who appears to be buying her off. I didn't even hint at a thank you note because I wasn't thinking that way. As for the cards, not sure how old she is, but maybe she should start taking responsibility for getting her own cards? Mom's and Dad's (my 16 y/o SS made the recent Father's Day card for his dad...without my prompting! It doesn't have to be a big issue).

As for your looks....this is the 2nd time you have commented about being over 50 and not looking like you used to. If he has a trophy wife now who is more attractive than you, I'm sorry. HOWEVER, using your age as an excuse to not take care of yourself is dangerous territory! I am almost 46 and am appalled at what nature wants to do with my body (haha! the weight really is a LOT harder to get rid of now!).....but I still take care of my skin, get exercise and even make sure I have some nice outfits so that I look and feel attractive when I want to. I also knew that my clothes were getting tight and made a decision to lose weight, NOT to buy the next size so they fit better! And, yes, I'd rather sleep an extra hour instead of getting up to exercise....so please don't sit back and cry about how you got heavy and wrinkley and life is so unfair......because you probably have a lot of control over that and don't have to use it as an excuse.

So you have the money from selling your old house, and expect the current house too. Wow, you are a real housekeeper.

No I don't since you told me I don't have to parent them any longer my life is a breeze I sit back and spend the child support check on getting my nails and hair done!!! with all the free time I have :-) since the kids are in school all day long.

OH wait ... its summer they are home all day and their mother who doesn't work either so there isn't any more child support... is too busy to spend any time with her kids. Picks them up at 7 pm and drops them off at 8 am 2 days a week ... she is such a saint!!! So I guess my days are numbered sitting here. Guessing I am just a babysitter with benefits. Who gets to attend to 3 children whose mother has only taught them how to be disrespectful to others. Never bothered to teach them any manners. The 11 yr old actually kicked his grandmother in the hip when she sat on the couch with him... "I was sitting here first!!" I wanted to blast him right then... But I didn't have to his grandmother did!!!

No I don't condone affairs but I am not going to dwell on how I was wronged for the rest of my life. I got over it and moved on. He is still with the OW do I care? NO she is good to him and my kids thats what matters. OH and heheheh I am his third wife his second wife is the loser who walked out on her children. The first wife is a drug addict living in florida. Who hasn't seen her daughter in 14 years.

Just think had you controlled the finances when you were married .... he wouldn't have had the money to buy the bmw. Maybe then you would still be living happily ever after.

And I'll bet a months CS this wasn't the first time ...he was "chased" poor man defenseless against evil women.

I did control money, other than minor things like cars, when we were married (thank god, knew where every investment was -- dont know if he would have tried to hide some).

Cawfecup: LOLOL!!! If I were you, I'd go find a job this summer!!!! I'm sure it would be a lot more relaxing that your SAHM situation you got going there!!!!!

kkny: No, I don't have the money from my former house -- I spent it on paying off property that I bought for OUR retirement, our furniture, our wedding, and our honeymoon. How is that for a vote of confidence about my husband! It may be a second marriage (that shouldn't last, apparently), but I knew I was in it for good and that I trusted him to be honest and kind towards me....so I blew every cent. Darn, if some wench chased after my husband I would have been screwed royally! Him under a spell and me with no money and no house!

Wow, so cawfecup is right, kkny, you expect the men to just continue working, as a single Dad, so that their kids "clean up" when they drop dead. Very sad for your kids....

Bottom line is you need to step away from your computer (me too for that matter!) and go start working on a life....go for a walk, go get your nails done, go on a date, join a club....anything to get you away from your current state of mind. If you don't do this for you, do it for your kids ok?

Ok, stay on computer too much, but am active in charities, civic associations etc.

But will always be their for DD.

and you think OK for woman who contributes nothing financially to house to end up with house and child with nothing? Ok interesting.

kkny- I think that your situation with x and gf is different than most on here.... if x had decided to leave house to dd and leave gf out in the cold should he die that is most definately an issue for them to work out

personally- whether or not I was working or a SAHM (if only) no one would be kicking me out of my home if my hubby were to die... but then things aren't and never would be set up like that... actually in our instance I make more money than he does and ridiculously more money than the bm does... and even in this case should I die my assets and all would not go to my daughter but to my hubby and then when he should pass they would be divided up equally between all four of the children... While I understand where your point of view comes from (an obviuosly long marriage and a very bad break up) I do not see how it would be viewed as correct to deny a second wife anything less than a first wife would have (or husband) been afforded should there spouse die. I think our children have the right to find there own success and achievements in life. I do not plan on paying for every little thing they want even if I do have the money. All of my children will work if they want to have a car and other such luxuries (these are priveleges not a right) and all of my children will benefit my husbands and my own success only after we have both passed and only if they have demonstrated there own ability to care for themselves. In my instance especially my being involved in my sks life has greatly improved their quality of life. This is not to say that it is so with every family but it would go to show that as your situation does not apply to mine nor does most others apply to yours. I have seen thoughtful responses to some postings and very bitter postings to others from you. You obviously have a big heart where your daughter is concerned (and for biological children of any mother) and her well being and I have no doubt that you always put what is best for your daughter in the highest regard... I only wish that you could see that some (such as myself) do that very same thing for not only our children but our step children as well and not all are seeking to leave children out in the cold but have the same standard of life and love that all families no matter what order they came in look for.

The above being said

To the OP- I understand what and how you feel with regards to the BM. Very recently infact (just this week) my skids BM said some very hurtful things about me and for some reason this time I let it get to me.... I was so upset I didnt really speak about anything regarding it for the rest of the day because I was afraid that I would start crying. The things that she said were completely unfounded and just ridiculous when it came down to it... but that was not the point I had gotten to a point where I was just sick and tired of being the bad guy in her saga and I kept thinking to myself "How many times does it take of her saying things about me and me just letting it go, do I go from being the bigger person to being a door mat for her to walk all over and blame her problems on". It took me actually three days (of serious thought and reflection) to come up with a decision ... drive to her house confront her and get it over with; ignore it and keep on 'being the bigger person' or just let it go and make my own personal decision to not let her and her actions run my life..... It was so beyond hard .. but I have decided to let go of this one and not let her actions bother me... I wont however turn around and pretend I didnt see her roll her eyes at me or make a comment or etc... I will not yell I will not call names I will simply tell her that that is not acceptable I deserve repsect and she will show it to me... (I can be a very formiable person when I set my mind to it) I think that this is the kind of the decison you have to make with regards to your hubby's ex ... do not let her run the show and do not under any circumstances let her disrespect you... I think there is a line between not participating in the bashing or degragating of another person and just simply not allowing yourself to be treated that way by anyone.
Also, you and your husband did absolutely nothing wrong in wanting to spend time with the 17 yr old. The only thing that can and will change her mind is time and a mature prospective on things. That so, in the mean time continue the emails etc but not with begging to please talk what did we do wrong.... blah blah blah just a simple hi just wanted to see how you were and tell you we love you call or talk when you can... eventually she will see that even with her freezing you out ... it did not change the fact that you loved and cared about her... and that in itself will prove her mother wrong far better than any persuasion could have .... ie; the old rule actions speak louder than words... sometimes it just takes a heck of a lot longer to get through :-)

Thank you -- that was kind and understanding.

I do have a question though -- you say

"I do not see how it would be viewed as correct to deny a second wife anything less than a first wife would have (or husband) been afforded should there spouse die"

First, I think we both would say it is not correct or incorrect, it is what the parties agree to, knowing the situation etc. But then, if the first wife (that would be me) was not only married for many years, but earned more than second (but less than X), and contributed to household whereas second did not, I dont think it is necarilly fair that second should share to same extent.

Yes, my situation may be different than many here, and I really dont resent all SMs (actually I dont know many in real life), but I also resent all the bashing here of the skids moms.

kkny: please refrain from misrepresenting what I say. Acouple of things to consider: 1) how would you know that the GF contributes nothing to the house/hold? 2) you think that the only way you have a stake in ownership is if you contribute cash (so SAHMs who don't put cash towards the mortgage aren't entitled to a share of the home that they are sustaining?)

I agree 100% with mom of 4:

****************
think our children have the right to find there own success and achievements in life. I do not plan on paying for every little thing they want even if I do have the money. All of my children will work if they want to have a car and other such luxuries (these are priveleges not a right) and all of my children will benefit my husbands and my own success only after we have both passed and only if they have demonstrated there own ability to care for themselves.
************

I think it is sad that my husband's daughter will never know the feeling of pride that comes from getting something she wants because SHE made it happen. I love that I have had those times in my life where I wanted something soooo badly that I made sacrifices and worked my butt off to get it (including my college education).....I think that is a disservice to children to deny them that pleasure......while some BM's apparently think it is a form of child abuse for their little ones to be told no, or that they can have it if they can make it happen!

I think the 'bashing' is frustration built up time and time again... just as I can say soundly that over all my childrens BM is not a bad person she just is not the (to put things in a delicate term) greatest mom... but in the heat of a moment when there are no little ears around in my own privacy I can safely say that I have called her more than a few choice names

Also, I think that when the divorce is final and everything is said and done whatever decisions were made need to be kept ... however, once those are kept and provided situations dont radically change (in which things should be reviewed) I think the marriage and assets should be treated as any first marriage would upon death. I personally think in your case it is not so much the gf as the x who is the problem here.... While I do not codone and never would do so myself cheating... I think the person who should bear the burden of the blame is the spouse who is the person who tooks the vows not the OW she did not make a vow to you to love honor and cherish till death do you part... and to make matters worst with your x is obviously, he did not leave for love... because if he did he would not consider leaving his gf in the cold they would be getting married and he would want his new wife to live in their home until she should die and then it should go to his daughter... but obviously this is not the case with him... he left because of his own selfish reasons and doesnt give enough of a damn about the person he left you for to honor her either which in my opinion makes it more of a slap in the face and makes him even more of a 'scum bag'

I am not certain if that was overly harsh or not but all in all that is my opinion of him...

1. How do I know that Xs GF contributes nada to house -- X told me. I beleive him.

2. SAHM -- depends -- of shcool age children? of college children? of no children? X has no children with GF, and will not ever (vasectormy).

Again, there can be a conflict of interest between SM and children from first marriage.

YOu may be correct.

She has me convinced ... I am spending the children's inheritence... oh wait she filed bankruptcy too ... not a pot to pi$$ in.

I wish I did stay at home .... the kids came home at 8 am... breakfast ... then off we go dropped one at soccer the other two at tennis sitting in the parking lot for an hour and a half can't leave them unsupervised ...home for lunch ... back out the door off to the market... all 3 in tow....Yes they behave at the market.... they learned quickly that if you can't behave while in public we go home no groceries nothing .... it took one temper tantrum and leaving a cart full of groceries in the market for them to learn behave or we go home. Stop at the friends house pick him up now I have 5 kids here... can't leave the little sister home ... so she comes too ... now they are down stairs playing for an hour or so until I start cooking dinner for 9. Yes its wonderful being a "stay at home (step)mom" Then tonight is movie night so back out I'll go and get movies with the 3 of them again... oh wait thats right 1 is sleeping at his friends have to drive him to the next town to sleep there ... its around the corner from his mothers. Just met the kid ... but Babies Momma says they are ok. So off he goes sleeping out...

Well according to kkny ... "their mother" works so she doesn't have time to parent and because I am not the parent I can't parent. Life is a breeze now they just do whatever they want whenever they want with out any regard for anyone or anything ... and I sit back and say "not my children".

I thank KKNY for reminding me how lucky I am not to be worried about money and that his loser of an ex -wife festers in her own misery everyday. "If I had known how rough it was dating I would have never cheated on him" ... and that I would rather deal with a useless POS than someone whose pettiness distorts their view on everything!

HA HA HA....
Ok, it's like a train wreck I can't not read...I know I said I'd skip their posts but it's like I just keep trying to figure out how their minds work. Like a case study on ignorance or something....

Ok..I haven't been the one targeted here (my post wasn't even dignified with a response!) - my offense was limited to the fact that I too am a SAHM (step and all!) and can TOTALLY relate to cawfecup's post. Actually I was filling out paperwork the other day and it asked my occupation so I wrote what I do: interior decorator, taxi driver, event planner, chef, maid, dog-walker, lawn care specialist, teacher, (my husband added "brothel worker" but changed it to "pleasure specialist" ha ha ha). I just LOVE when people say to me "you don't work right?" Yeah I sit on my bottom and eat bon-bons all day. HA. oh...and you can add student to the list because I'm studying medical transcription so that I can work from home avoiding the $$ of daycare while providing an income on top of all of my other services. That'll be fun!

kkny posted: "but I also resent all the bashing here of the skids moms."

First I'd like to add that "Mom" is an affectionate term for the female provider in a child's life. Ever heard the phrase "anyone can be a mother but it takes someone special to be a mom." EVERY SPECIES IN THE WORLD CAN REPRODUCE. How hard is that? Just donating your egg doesn't make you a "mom"; actually this same role in the canine world labels you a "b*tch". Interesting isn't it? On top of all of this, have you heard the type of "mothers" you are defending? Do you see every person wrongfully convicted of a crime defending every criminal in jail? Because one was innocent doesn't mean they all are. Likewise, you may be maternal but these women AREN'T! Is it simply impossible for you to discern INDIVIDUAL SITUATIONS? or are you just so blinded by your ignorance that you think we posting SMs are all liars as well as husband-stealing hussies? If you want to defend crack-whores and child-support-skipping cheaters by all means you could pursue a job as a "court appointed counsel" but if you're looking to bash useless stepmoms you've come to the wrong forum. We are not who you think we are.

You've made blanket statements like "I don't think all stepmothers are evil" only to follow it with how many SMs hate their stepkids. It's almost like it's physically impossible for you to acknowledge that some of us aren't here to steal the child's inheritance and neglect or abuse them. My husband and I combined DEBT when we got together but I'm still a gold-digger right? Because I'm a second wife? (oh yeah...BM used to sit home while DH was deployed, spend the entire paycheck and then call HIS mother to ask for $$ because she "couldn't feed the kids". My DH and I still owe my MIL the $30,000 BM took from her.) Also because DH is in the military, we move every 3 years and don't own a house, so I must be after the EVENTUAL house we will own that should be passed on to his boys that I raise, and BM doesn't pay a cent for, right? Oh and she should probably be his beneficiary in case he dies at work because she stopped taking her pill at 20 years old and he married her to "do the right thing" but afterall, she was FIRST (even if it was through manipulation) so she's more entitled to all of his benefits than I am, right? Even though I'm honest, don't neglect her children while doing drugs in the basement, don't burn them with cigarettes, and the small fact that my husband actually married me for LOVE. I should get what's left after she gets what she wants? We should just ignore who she is and what she's done and grant her with every future benefit MY HUSBAND works for, because rewarding poor behavior is what scorned first marriage divorcees believe in.

The women in this forum that you've picked this battle with are most likely the only loving mother some of these children will know and as a sincere "maternal" woman, you should be thankful that there are those of us out there that are capable of loving someone else's kids as our own. Especially when faced with animosity from people like you. WE can understand that your X's GF may be a dirt-bag, why can't YOU understand that these BMs that you so desperately want to defend may be just as bad, IF NOT WORSE. After all if this woman burned your DD with a cigarette would you take kindly to me defending her? You get angry when someone assumes that your X's GF has pure intentions yet can't fathom that our anger toward the BM's in our lives could actually be justified. I may be a "only" a SM in your eyes, but I love those boys more than she does - and it enrages me that you defend HER. This is a support forum. If you want to gripe about X's GF, fine, but don't bash us for griping about the dirt-bags in our lives.

Wake up and see who you're talking to (and insulting while you're at it.)

Wake up and realize that not every man married the mother of his child because she was pregnatn. I was married for over 5 years before my DD was married.

Not everyone looks at their children/stepchildren as cash cows.

No I think a lot of SMs view the SKIds as a cost. Which of course they are -- children cost money. And a lot of SMs want to minimize that money. As do the childs mother and father. The difference is that skids are not the sms children -- more conflict. I think a lot of SMs would like their husbands life prior to them just didnt exist.

Honestly? It would be MUCH easier if my husband's past didn't exist. My mom's life would have been much easier if I hadn't existed also!!! And don't get me started on bills, mortgages, etc.!!!! Does that mean that we don't move forward and make lemonade? A lot of stepmoms on this forum are looking for the perfect recipe that satisfies the entire family's taste buds.

lonepiper- I really like that metaphor... aren't we all searching for that recipe :-)

Metaphor??

I was serious...anyone with any good lemonade recipes??

LOL!!!! (just kidding!! thought it would lighten the atmosphere in here!!)

"Wake up and realize that not every man married the mother of his child because she was pregnatn. I was married for over 5 years before my DD was married."

So this is the one statement response I get after I type a 200 page report, right?

Can I ask you one thing and actually have you answer the one question I ask?

IF your X's GF burned your daughter with a cigarette, would you like me defending HER simply because you are a BM and I hate the BM in my life?

THAT is my situation and my problem with you. You are defending people based on their title of "BM" without any discretion of who you are defending. You are giving more importance to the fact that these people gave birth than the fact that some of them NEGLECT AND ABUSE THEIR OWN CHILDREN. Throughout all of these posts you have never acknowledged that our anger could be justified or that our situations are on individual basis'. You have grouped us all into the same category as your X's GF and you haven't once stopped to acknowledge OUR personal situations, despite the information we have given you.

So once again...WHY are you here? It is obvious it is not for support.

(okay so that was two questions...it doesn't matter anyways because you probably won't even answer them. You'll try to point out some little discrepancy and just ignore the heart of the post like you always do.) Not that you were looking for a response, but to answer your statement: I'm not like you are, so just because my husband married BM to "do the right thing" doesn't mean that I think EVERY first marriage in the world happened for the same reason. As foreign as this seems to you, I actually have the ability to judge a situation based on the facts of THAT individual situation alone. I don't let my personal experience with a sh*tty BM override my ability to see people as individuals. I don't hate every BM out there. JUST THE ONE NEGLECTING AND ABUSING MY KIDS. But instead of understanding the uniqueness of my situation, why don't you write me back about how much better than me she is simply because she gave birth to them and I didn't. Do you even see how ridiculous this is? You are defending a woman who has NO maternal instinct based on the premise that ALL BM's do. And you are insulting the woman who they consider their mother, who loves and provides for them the way a mother should, based on the fact that I am a second wife/SM and no SM could possibly have more of a maternal instinct than a BM.

PLEASE TELL ME YOU SEE THE RIDICULOUSNESS OF THIS BEHAVIOR.

"but NO child (intact or divorced family) has a "right" to their parent's money."

Children deserve to be raised with the standard of living equivalent to that of the wealthier parent. It is NOT fair that I can't afford physical therapy, or soccer, or new clothes, or any family vacations at all for my children, when their father can afford all that and more.

The reason the census data I linked to is 7 years old is that 2000 was the last major census.

I would (and have) advised my children against dating/marrying a man with children.

Ok so my in-laws are very wealthy does that mean my husband is entitled to their money?

My MIL says its her money to keep or spend as she wishes until her death ... but according to some my hubby is entitled to it now to keep up with the standard of living in which he was accustomed to?

So his parents should just support him totally he shouldn't have to earn his own money he should just mooch off his parents?

Cawfecup: You are SO ALWAYS RIGHT ON! I LOVE IT!

TOS: When I said "children are not entitled to their parent's money", I was referring to GROWN CHILDREN. Of course, fathers should help pay for physical therapy for their children. I don't think anyone on this board would dispute that. As far as vacations and other extracurricular activities, if that is something you want to do for your children, YOU need to find a way to do that. Whether or not it's "fair" or not is really not the issue. Life is not fair or nice or equal. You deal with the cards you are given. If your job does not pay you well enough, get more education. It is no longer your ex's responsiblity to provide "extras for you". He needs to support his children, but your extras are your business. The last alternative is to find a rich man to marry and then take him to the cleaners...I am sure kkny could give you plenty of good tips.

When I married my husband he was not rich. When his present GF started chasing him he was.

The "extras" are not my business alone. The law in my state, and I think every state, is that children are supposed to be supported based on parents income, even if parents get divorced. So if DAD makes alot, he chips in for dance lesson, the school trips, etc. I understand you apparently dont agree. That is nice to know. I appreciate this board giving me a better understanding of how potential SMs think.

And I do have a good education, and a good job (much better than GF). But it is not my job alone to support DD.

Thanks again for the heads up.

First of all, I am not a potential SM, I am one. A SM who does more for my SK's then thier BM would ever think about doing. I did not say your ex was rich when you married him, but when you divorced him, IMO, you took him to the cleaners. My personal feeling is biological parents should discuss things such as dance lessons, etc, and agree on what is appropriate. I don't agree with one parent making all the decisions and presenting the other with the bill. That wouldn't happen in a marriage, and should not happen otherwise. For example, I chose a private school for my son for my own reasons. His BF believes public school is just fine. But, because I want him to go to private school, DH and I sacrifice and send him. I don't have the right to impose my values on my ex. I would never have dreamed of asking him to help me send DS to school because I know he doesn't tbink it's necessary. He pays me CS (always), and I make up the difference for things I want my son to do. But, maybe I feel that way because my parents taught me to be independent, and not to depend on ANYONE, including my ex or my DH. I am grateful that I don't feel I'm entitled to other's people's money, including men I am married to or once married to, or my parent's money (who by the way are very well off).

I meant potential SM of my DD. X was well represented by counsel, and I had already moved out, and I dont think I took him to the cleaners. I wanted key issues resolved for my DD, who is also his DD. I dont think it would be right to ask any future DH of mine to support a child not his. So we have differences. This is good though to hear from others.

My point is just because you share a DD does not mean you share the same priorities or life values. I don't think you or any BM (including me because I am one of those too) have the right to impose what YOU THINK a child needs on a person you are no longer married to. We can all agree a child NEEDS the following: Housing, food, medication, education, clothing, therapies, etc. The other thing a child needs...is love and not feeling they are in the middle of a constant tug of war by thier parents. Dance lessons, soccer camp, band camps, etc. are not NEEDS. Is it nice to be able to provide your child with those things? ABSOLUTELY. Do many people grow into well adjusted successful adults without those things..I think so. Your ex seems to be in the unique position of not having many financial concerns. I would venture to say that most of the posters on here, have husbands who have a SIGNIFICANT portion of thier paycheck deducted for CS, then they pay the dental and medical insurance, plus they have thier children many days each month, plus they are expected to pay for whatever class, lesson, etc. their ex comes up with. If they were still married, the husband could say, "sorry dear, it just isn't is the budget". But, because they are divorced, they have no choice but to pay often leaving them without money to even live on. That is not reasonable and why many BF's give up. Step out of your glass house for a moment and imagine what some of these men are going through. It is hell. And most of them, did not leave their wives for other women.

Even my X has financial constraints. Everyone has to have priorities. If standards arent agreed on, the courts will deal with it. I dont think most courts would take the view that for an upper-middle class or even middle class family, these extras are not the norm.

I think a lot of the frustation that hits divorced parents is that setting up an extra household does cost money.

Like I have said, this board is helpful to me in understanding people's perspective.

The attitude that "the courts will deal with it" is really what bothers me about divorce. If you were still married to this person, and you disagreed, you couldn't "go to court and have them resolve it". You would have to come to some compromise and figure out a resolution. I don't understand the idea of involving a court system in your life unless it is some MAJOR ISSUE. Whether a child joins a soccer team, or takes piano lesson is IMO a ridiculous issue for a court to address. If one parent feels that passionate about it, then figure out a way to provide the experience for your child, but for goodness sake, stop this going to court over every little thing nonsense. When my DH was first divorced, he was trying to set up a household for himself plus pay child support, and pay every other expense for his kids because his ex paid nothing for them. She called him one day and told him she had signed up my SD for guitar lessons and he had 10 days to reimburse her or she would take him to court. He was so fearful of going back to court, he used his rent money to reimburse her and lost his place. He lived in his office at work for 4 weeks until he could get back on his feet. BTW, SD took the lessons for 3 weeks, decided she didn't like the guitar and never went back. That is how kids are. They think they want something, and then lose interest. For a BF to be expected to use his last penny to pay for an extracurricular that a child very well may lose interest in very quickly is ridiculous and this family court system is completely out of control. The fact that they even address issues like piano lessons or what "other middle class families have that we don't" is ridiculous.

Go Lafevem...I will live vicariously through you since my lengthy posts are ignored.

TOS: I don't give a rat's @ss about your statistics. I know who I am and I know MY situation. My DH is more maternal than my SS(s) BM regardless of what you think the "norm" is. We are the primary custodians by a LAND SLIDE with no support from BM. I came here for support on the (sometimes) difficult role I play in my SS(s) lives. You came here to stir the pot - isn't that why you are on THE OTHER SIDE, y'know, the one opposite the rest of us? You don't know me or care to know me, so just go on with your miserable, lonely life and I'll just forget this post ever happened (y'know, just like you and kkny do every time.)

KKNY: I will repeat my question and ass*u*me you didn't see it. "IF your X's GF burned your daughter with a cigarette, would you like me defending HER simply because you are a BM and I hate the BM in my life?"

I also will once again reiterate that I am disturbed by the fact that simply because someone is a BM holds more weight with you than the fact that they abuse their children. You defend her and attack me. Isn't that some sh*t. You should seriously consider becoming court-appointed counsel then you could defend scumbags all day and MAKE MONEY DOING IT. Which is a top priority of yours anyways...

Steppin_out I am sorry you are ignored ... seems they like to fuel the fire with ridiculous statements and ... they can't pick apart what you say like they can others me included.

To some the a BM is hailed as a saint she gave birth to children, doesn't matter what kind of mother she is ... she is their mother. End of story..

BD is supposed to put his life on hold until his children reach an age of maturity in which they no longer need financial support. Could be 18, 22, 29, 40 who knows, because no one ever put it on the "child" to be responsible for their own future. BD is not to spend any of HIS money with out checking to see if BM approves.

Children should be "supported" by all parents doesn't matter who is CP or NCP but just because there is a camp for everything under the sun doesn't mean a child "has to" go.... If you can't afford to send them they don't go ... You don't buy half a bottle of medication because NCP is supposed to pay half of all "extras" you buy it because they need it ...

BM here is supposed to pay 50% of all the extras ... not worth the time or aggrevation to get to her to come up with it. So they don't go if we can't afford things. We don't say well we can only afford to pay half. They need to go to the doctors ... do you pay the $15 co-pay or pay the $7.50 because the NCP is supposed to pay the other half?

We pay over $180 a month in co-pays for therapy for them to talk about what a loser their mother is. ... I think she should pay all of that. She is supposed to pay 50%. We have to pay her to spend time with her children never mind pay out of pocket expenses.

TOS and KKNY are both BM's Both hubby's cheated and are still with the OW. KKNY's ex has money, TOS's ex married money. TOS have 5 kids I think. KKNY has 1. They are at different stages of their divorce ... TOS is still _____ over her divorce but has come to terms with it for the most part. KKNY is not accepting the divorce. She is still in the revenge phase. She is gonna get back at him even if its only through his wallet. All while saying it benefits her daughter. TOS would like to have her ex accountable for the extras but she knows it won't happen not his money. KKNY will make it happen because it is ex's money.

I don't want to be their mother .... but neither does their mother. So they should have two adult woman in their lives who do nothing for them? I do what I do for my SC because its in their best interest.

to stepping -- no I wouldnt like or defend anyone hurting a child

to cawfecup -- yes you write nicely with these stories of how bms do nothing and want everything. statistics show -- childrens fianacial well being decreases in divorce -- most children of divorce live with mom. So the courts know they have to help mom with enforcement.

like I say, this board is helpful. I reccomment it to every first wife whose husband is bolting. Get the persepective of SMs.

Absolutely recommend this site to any "first wife whose husband is bolting." Chances are she'll end up becoming someone's second wife and stepmother. We'll be here to hold her hand, pass advice back and forth and help her get through the rough patches.

KKNY - I've noticed that you tend to end your posts with things like "like I say, this board is helpful." Is it your intent to use these phrases as bait? Are you wanting to incite fireworks?

No I dont mean as bait, I mean it sincerely. It provides the point of view of SMs. I think it is good to know.

I agree. It is also nice that it provides the point of view of biological mothers (such as yourself and theotherside). It would be an incredibly bland forum if it only provided the point of view from a single side.

On a similar topic - Are there any biological fathers that post on this forum? I believe there's a few stepfathers. There's not that many stepchildren either. Or siblings (step or half) of stepchildren...

NO I write about my SC's BM I don't say all bm's are useless ... just her ... I couldn't be as useless as she is if I tried. Your children need to eat you learn to cook ... they don't care how good or bad you cook ... if they don't know any different because thats all they have had is your cooking....

There are some stepfathers who post, I know that for sure. I definitely like different points of view, but I think this forum is about stepfamilies, and I have yet to see how kkny is involved in a "stepfamily". She is not re-married, her husband has not re-married (although he has a live in gf who kkny despises because she chased husband for years until he could not take it anymore and just gave in), and she says her daughter hardly sees her BF. So, honestly I don't think she is getting an accurate representation of what her ex's gf feels because kkny states she has no desire to be a stepmother of any kind to kkny's DD. So, I really don't think that thinking represents any of the women I see post here who all are trying to make a relationship with SK's.

"and I have yet to see how kkny is involved in a "stepfamily". "

I disagree. Her daughter has a father who is currently residing with a woman. This woman may or may not become her stepmother, and may or may not be active in KKNY's daughter's life, but in her ex-husband's life she is. What affects the father will eventually trickle down and affect the daughter...

lafevem, I agree. That's why it angers me SO much that they joined a "support" group for step-families. They both use this forum as an excuse to take out their anger on any stepmother who posts questions (looking for support) because they mistakenly view her as the "other woman" in their lives. It's not only unsupportive, it's insulting. And I wish I could say that I respect their perspective, but I don't. I think they are both lonely, angry, bitter, first wives who are taking it out on us because we're just some women on the computer with no face or real name. There's no repercussions for insulting us like there might be if they took it out on the ones actually causing their anger.

Don't insult me because you can't blow up your ex and his girlfriend, y'know what I mean? Take a kick-boxing class and imagine she's the bag. Take her picture to the local range and shoot at her for all I care, but stop treating me like I stole your husband and hate my SK.

I also think they use the ole "I'm learning your perspective thing" as a cover to be here. If my son was gay and I was having a hard time "understanding" it and wanted to learn where he was coming from, I wouldn't go to a forum and tell all gays that they are wrong for being that way, that it simply isn't "natural", or that God is frowning on them. (Which I really don't feel - I'm just making an example because that's usually the opposing arguments!) I also wouldn't assume that all gay men are hairdressers who wear designer labels and talk with a lisp just because some of them do. I do not appreciate being grouped into some category of ignorant, horrible mothers simply because Cinderella had an evil stepmother. It's just wrong. We are all people with different situations who are hear seeking support and we all deserve that opportunity to be listened to instead of picked apart. Some of us are better parents than others, some of us are better people than others but it doesn't mean that everyone in here is guilty until proven innocent.

"to stepping -- no I wouldnt like or defend anyone hurting a child"

Kkny: I will take this as your way of saying that I am not like the "other" stepmothers you assume we all are and that deep down, you see and appreciate that I am more maternal than the BM in my SS(s) lives and understand that those boys now have a chance to have the mother they deserve and that they have a better life now because I'm in it. After all, I don't physically and emotionally abuse them (and I won't list everything I DO do for them!) So, thank you for acknowledging this (even if I had to say it for you.)

Steppin_out: I totally agree. There are many young women who come to this board who are not parents yet themselves or have small children and then they take on the role of step-parent and are expected to know how to do it, and also how to feel. Then they come on this board looking for help and are lambasted because they may word things a bit harshly. My point is we are all here to help. I wish I would have had this board 3 years ago when I started the SM journey. It would have saved me alot of heartache and arguments. My feeling is if someone is willing to take the time and effort to find this board, pour out their story, and open themselves up for judgement to be made on their lives, they must be loving enough to look for help, and compassionate enough people to know they may need some help. I find so much wisdom reading responses from SM's who are older and who have been on their journey for many years. They have been there and I appreciate their insight and ideas. I think we can all admit this is a tough role and any help we can give each other is great (even if we all don't agree).

"Steppin_out: I totally agree. There are many young women who come to this board who are not parents yet themselves or have small children and then they take on the role of step-parent and are expected to know how to do it, and also how to feel."

Did you know you are describing me? Yup...SM of a year and 2 months to be precise (not BM yet - hoping to try this fall!) I didn't necessarily have a hard time with the role of "mom" (BS Elementary Education)- I actually stay at home now and am constantly doing activities with them (we just made gigantic bubbles before they left for the summer - that was fun!), signing them up for sports, playing cops and robbers with them; I even planned this "dinosaur" party for the youngest's 5th birthday (we did an actual excavation with little model dino skeletons and Plaster of Paris) the kids had a blast! I ENJOY being a mom. It's the other emotions I wasn't prepared for, like feeling like an outsider joining a "pre-made" family, feeling like I've taken all the responsibility and she still wants the credit...you know the story (it's the same as so many). I also didn't expect all the jealousy, resentment, and anger...so it was just nice to find a place to be understood (and to vent!) When I look around and am surrounded by first marriage friends with their own biological kids and white picket fences and I want to cry - I come here. I like that. I just hope I feel more like I'm in a support group than in a war trench dodging fire!

Thank you, Lafevem and all of you out there who truly understand the struggles and warmly support others here. You'll keep me posting...

steppin_out: Yeah! I have my BS in Elem. Ed too, so we are colleagues. I know exactly how you feel about your friends with just bio families. I feel the same kind of jealousy sometimes when I am around them at my kid's birthday parties, etc. I have learned though that EVERY family has their issues and even though it may look perfect it may be falling apart at the seams...hence why there are so any blended families these days. I can totally understand how you feel, totally. BTW, the birthday party sounds fabulous! You did a great job! It is a thankless job for sure, but I know the kids appreciate it even if they don't show it. Hugs!