Prayer? seriously speaking..I'm so sorry to hear about your SD. Can you create a situation where all of her privelages are based on good behavior--know her currency. What is so important to her that she will behave well to keep it, get more of it, etc

Hi and thank you so much for responding. :)

We have tried creating such situations. For example, Sarah wanted to sign up for a local community cheerleading squad. The cost was going to be about $300. She told us she wanted to do this about 1 month before the sign-ups so we told her that if she went the entire month without any school calls (the principal calling us to tell us of misbehavior), we'd allow her to sign up. She actually did pretty well for an entire month (it was shocking!) So we paid the $300 and signed her up and IMMEDIATELY her behavior took a downward spiral. Well, Sarah obviously thought she had us over the barrel because we had already paid the money so we would let her go, kwim, so we told her that in order to be able to actually start the cheerleading squad (which doesn't begin until July 7th), she would have to get her signatures (ie: her teachers sign her daily agenda attesting to the fact that she has done her homework and behaved in class)with the exception that we would allow her to miss 3 signatures (4 signatures per day, 5 days a week...and she was allowed to miss a total of 3 signatures). Can you believe Sarah made it to the LAST WEEK OF SCHOOL and then didn't get her signatures at all. It's like she is testing us. She thinks that we're still going to let her do the cheerleading b/c we paid the $300 and won't want to waste that money, however the deal was that she couldn't miss more than 3 signatures and she ended up missing 14 (because of the last 4 days, plus 2 that she had missed previously). Sorry this is so complicated, lol. Anyway, she simply does not care. We told her she had lost the cheerleading and her response was, "oh well, I didn't want to go anyway." WHAT THE HECK??? I don't know what to do to get through to this kid??? Seriously, I feel like pulling my hair out. Can you tell I am frustrated? LOL!

Look into camp counselor in training .... position ... she is responsible for other kids younger than her ... but yet still under camp counselors direction.

Can you afford to enroll her in parochial school. Worth the money even if only one year.

The I didn't want to go anyway is a gut reaction to disappointment...she really is kicking herself in the ass but too stubborn to let you know she pissed at herself. She's thinking ... if they think I don't want to go they will "make" me go ...

Personally I would "make" her go ... just to get some relief... but I don't live in your home. Well you're going anyway ...blah blah blah...

I don't have any great advice, but it did occur to me that perhaps you could 'donate' her place in the cheerleading squad to a child whose parents can't afford it. You could ask the director or her school. Whether you tell her you've done this is up to you. I just think it's such a waste of your hard earned money, and surely someone in your community would be thrilled.

Regarding the camp counselor thing ~ it might be worth exploring. One of my nieces is a real wild child, but every year she is a counselor at camp, and loves it. I don't know how much impact it has had on her choices, which are sometimes very poor, but I think it's doing some good on some important levels.

What a frustrating situation for you to be in.

I'm interested to hear what the therpaist told you and hubby when you had your own counseling over the issue. From what you posted it does seem that the behavior may have something to do with the divorce since that's when it seems to have started.

I agree with pseudo mom about her being disappointed in herself but not wanting anyone else to show it and then saying she didn't want it anyway. That is sort of a classic response to being held responsible for your own poor choices.

What a mess, I really feel for you! Have you looked into a survival camp type situation for troubled kids? How about military school? Your situation seems so desperate. Wish I could offer more hope or advice.

therapy is good. but once again you can't drag her. I agree with pseudo, i would take her to a different school, private, small, something. what a mess. I don't know what to suggest. are you relgious? church (or whatever is your faith) could help, youth group there? community theater? you have to get her interested in something. and she needs to go to cheerleading. if she likes it, she might start getting back on track.

Sounds like you have a lot going on in your household! But, hey, you're still standing. That's important.(G)

How did you find the mental health professionals you've consulted? Friends, phone book, school referrals? This child sounds like a handful, and you really need to have a professional involved. She's not likely to respond to your "do it yourself" interventions. My first suggestion is that you keep looking for a psychologist who has lots of experience with kids, and is someone you can work with. Don't give up. The step-family situation makes it all more complicated.

You mentioned academic problems. Was she evaluated for learning disabilities or attention problems? There may be a connection with her behavior, impulsivity, and learning differences. There are support groups for parents of kids who have issues at school. Smart kids aren't immune from having learning and attention problems. Even if the issues aren't exactly the same, it's helpful to meet other parents dealing with challenging behaviors.

Find out of the school has a social worker, and have a chat with her. They can help with suggestions in managing behaviors, checking with teachers, and in many other ways. I would ask for suggestions of books or websites that deal with teen behavior issues.

Usually, kids who are impulsive (as your SD may be) don't do as well with long term punishments (grounding) or "deals" that require them to be successful for an extended period of time before they earn a reward. It may seem like she's old enough to behave without your having to "help" her, but it's clear that she's not performing, for some reason. It's usually better to come up with something incremental that these kids can build on. In other words, don't set her up with an all or nothing situation, at least not until she has been successful for a long time. Gradual change is better than none, and certainly better than having the child shut down and stop trying.

Good luck.

Wow...y'all are great! I really appreciate all the suggestions, advice, and just plain support. I'm so glad to have found this forum. I've been suffering silently for too long. :)

LOVE the suggestion about donating her cheerleading spot to a child who is less fortunate, although we are also considering doing what a couple of y'all have suggested...forcing her to go! I agree that perhaps if she has an activity that she enjoys, she will develop more focus and that might lead to better behavior.

We are involved with a church. I, in fact, work at the church in public relations. :) I formerly taught school, but when my husband died I took a leave of absence and never went back. I work part-time at the church and love it. My son Sam (also age 14...like Sarah) is VERY involved with the youth group at church...but Sarah will have NOTHING to do with it. She refuses to have anything to do with anyone who might be remotely "christian-like" in their behavior. It totally perplexes me. We, as a family, are very involved in the church, but Sarah will have nothing to do with it.

We've been given various advice from psychologists. Behavior charts, positive reinforcement, therapy, one-on-one time, etc. The problem is that Sarah is SO manipulative that she will say whatever she thinks the psychologist wants to hear, even if it's an outright lie. She will seriously lie right to his face, and then laugh about getting away with it.

We have searched into residential treatment facilities (schools) but the one that we REALLY liked was at a cost of $3600 a month. My husband is a financial analyst for the government and has looked into every possible way that we could possibly try to afford it (we own 2 houses currently...can't get rid of house #1 b/c of the horrible housing market so we'll probably be stuck with it for a couple of years more) and there is just no way that we can afford that kind of a price. I also feel awful everytime I consider sending her "away" to school...like we're just saying there's nothing more we can do...but seriously, it's getting to that point.

Sarah's bm is at the point of saying she doesn't even want to see her every other weekend anymore, which means that we don't even get a break from her antics at all. Although, believe me, bm is a tale all her own. :)

Anyway, I'm sorry I'm rambling on and on. I truly appreciate all of your help. I am definitely going to become a regular poster here. :)

Therapy? Psych evaluation? Reform school?

Seriously...get this girl some help. You will ALL be better for it. And before you say dad can't force her to go, YES he can. He is the parent, she is the child. He makes the rules. Even though she may fight it initially, kids really do want to know that their parents are in control, and even though they may test boundaries, they really are comforted by them..somewhere down deep inside.

It sounds as though she has some psych/behavioral issues, especially with authority. Has anyone mentioned opposition-defiant disorder to you? If she refuses, and her dad won't drag her in kicking and screaming, threaten her with hospitalization...she'll probably come around.

Best of luck to you...

Why does it perplex you that Sarah has different religious views than your own? Why would you expect her to share your religious views, any more than you would expect her to choose a career similar to yours?

I think it is likely that much, if not all, of her behavior is related to her feeling that NOBODY wants her - not her mother, not her father, and certainly not her stepmother.

What specifically was it about the divorce that could have prompted her behavior? Which one of her parents cheated?

NEITHER one of her parents cheated!!! My husband was a career military officer and his wife REFUSED to go with him when he was transferred to different locations. She wanted to live with her mother and the children in her home state. My husband got tired of having to beg his wife to relocate with him. The marriage was strained, and they agreed to divorce. I met him more than a year after his divorce, after my husband passed away. Neither of us has ever cheated on a spouse.

My husband makes sure that Sarah knows she is loved. We have an extremely close family. We have 7 children and 6 of them are quite well adjusted and happy with
our blended family. Sarahis the only one that we really have a huge struggle with (other than the little day to day squabbles that all families have). As for religion, I have no problem if Sarah's views are different than mine. What I DO have a problem with is the fact that she is manipulative, disrespectful, rude, and outright mean.

Why do I get the feeling that you are trying to start something up with me? Believe me, my husband and I are in this together for the long haul and we love our family.

I think Sarah needs evaluation, like a psychological or maybe even psychiatric one. I agree with nicksmom, sounds like she could have ODD. She could also have a certain type of depression etc. i would insist that doctor, psychologist, psychiatrist etc sees her. it sounds more than girl is just not listening. I would hate to see her getting in more trouble. Keep us posted.

I don't understand. You said,

"My husband was moving every 2 to 3 years in his air force career so it would have been difficult for his wife to hold a job."

But you also said she refused to relocate with him.

If your late husband died a couple of years ago, you met your current husband less than a couple of years ago, which was between one and two years after his divorce. You mentioned that he was retired military - why would relocation be a factor in the divorce if he was within a few years of retirement?

Wow, I don't know why you are questioning everything I say, but hey, I'm a good sport.

Okay, my husband's ex WOULD refuse to go where he was relocated on just about every move, yet then she would relent and go to him once she realized he wasn't going to not take military assignments. She always ended up joining him, albeit protesting loudly that "you don't love me or you wouldn't make me move here." He was in the military when she met him. She knew the lifestyle. Her own father, in fact, was military.

My husband got a divorce from his ex-wife in March 2004, when once again he was relocated and she put up a stink. He retired from the military in August 2005. He didn't know that he was going to retire when they first divorced, but it was drawn up in the divorce decree that WHEN he retired, she would get half of the retirement amount. She does NOT get spousal support now, however she DID up until he retired, when the retirement account became active. He had actually wanted to serve more years but decided to take on a contracting position in finance for the government when offered the opportunity.

A funny little side note is that when he made his last move, although after the divorce, ex-wife FOLLOWED him b/c she was hoping they would get back together. She changed her ways a little too late to save the marriage.

I met my husband in the summer of 2006.

Momtolots, You re getting the feeling someone is trying to start something up with you? You are an intelligent woman.....Really TOS ,WHO cheated????? And lets do the math again, oh that is getting so old and boring...Every story doesnt begin and end with a cheater Sigh.....

momtolots...you are very perceptive. There are a couple of posters here who like to focus on UNIMPORTANT pieces of a puzzle, or even more often, create pieces that don't even exist, and fail to address the issues at hand or the questions asked. My advice is to ignore them, or call them out on it. Then they suddenly stop responding.

Anyways, back to the question at hand...have you looked up child psychiatrists in your area yet???

momtolots, You are indeed a perceptive and intelligent woman. TOS has an agenda, and has unfortunately chased a number of women in need of support off of this board with her passive aggressive and judgemental, (emphasis on the "mental"), posts. I have been on these boards since June 2001, and without exception, I've never seen anything like it. I've been astounded, angry, amused, and frightened by her posts. Good for you for recognizing her illness so quickly.

Thanks so much for all your support! I won't be chased away so easily. :)

I wrote a response earlier but for some reason it is not showing up, so forgive me if I'm giving you this information twice.

What I wrote earlier is that today I spoke with a counselor at the high school that Sarah will be attending in the fall. The counselor gave me the name of a supposedly wonderful psychiatrist in our area. The counselor also mentioned to me what a couple of y'all have mentioned...ODD (oppositional defiant disorder). I'm definitely going to have to look into this some more. I'll keep y'all updated!

The fact that you think this is humorous says it all:

"A funny little side note "

The destruction of a family is NEVER humorous.

"My husband got a divorce from his ex-wife in March 2004, when once again he was relocated and she put up a stink."

He obviously knew that he would soon be eligible for retirement. He waited all those years, and then, as he approached retirement, he thought that was a good time to divorce? He was unhappy with the fact that his wife did not want to follow him all over the place, so he divorced her in order to make it even MORE likely that he would be separated from his children??

I suspect that there is way more going on here than has been revealed in these posts, perhaps more than the OP is even aware of, and the fact that the SD's behavior started to change in response to the divorce is far from coincidental. Perhaps the SD knows exactly what precipitated the divorce..

I wasnt going to bother posting here anymore, because I think that several of the chatters are just looking for someone to agree with them, rather than listening to anyone elses opinion. The high school name calling that has gone on is much too jerry springer for me. I will be posting very infrequently.

BUT...your situation is critical. You have a narrow window of time to change things, before it becomes much more difficult.

I think TOS is correct that this girl doesnt feel wanted by anyone. When a child feels abandoned, they are willing to do anything to get attention. Your SD is acting out because its her way of coping with the pain she is feeling, rightly or wrongly, over the fact that no one wants her.

Before you start blah blah ing about how much she is loved, look at your own posts.

YOu said...

I have basically given up on her. It's sad for me to admit that, but I have finally had to realize that I truly do not like her and I'm not sure she even has the ability to change

and...

The reason Tom has custody of her is basically because her own mother "doesn't want her" because of her horrible behavior

And...

We have searched into residential treatment facilities (schools)

YOu may not be aware of it, but this girl is certainly aware of the fact that a) her mother doesnt want her, b) her dad and stepmother want to put her in a home, and c) her sm doesnt like her.

I have had three foster kids that I took as teens, all of whom acted very much like your daughter. There are things you can do, but until you can see WHY she may be acting the way she is, you wont be amenable to meeting the deep longing in her that she is searching for. Its up to you, her mom, and her dad to NEVER give up and NEVER stop believing in her. I could write more about some of the things that worked for the kids I took in ( all of whom ended up straightening out and turning into responsible adults), but I think the first thing you need to address is your own attitude, and how it is affecting the girl. Think of the solutions, not the problems, and you will be less frustrated. As I usually say, try a huge dose of empathy.

okay, I DEFINATELY dont agree with TOs (necessarily) always or even you for that matter... but you seem to have a fairly proven logical relaxed mode with which to base your opinions on and I personally would really would like to hear some of the things that worked for you as a ... I believe adoptive and foster?? parent I believe?? .. but nonetheless a person who took kids in who needed the help................. what worked for you???
I said I would like to know what worked for you

Hi there,
welcome! You sound like a very strong woman. You have your head on right and you've done everything for this girl and both your families.
I think what this girl needs is reality , true reality of life where she needs to know you will not pay.
SHe is angry with her mother from the past from the divorce and this was never taken care of and now its a snowball effect.
She doesn't care. Because sheis thinking of herself and knows she lives under your house and can do what she wants. Even when she gets punished she doesn't care.
Find out what she cares about and be consistant. And yeah, she does things to you cause she knows she is pissing you and your husband off.
Its gonna be rough and at her age its the rebellion time. I'm sure you know cause your a teacher and have seen this.
I agree give the cheerleading position to another child who wants it.
THis will sound harsh but if your sd will continue down this path its best to at least prepare her for being responsible. Get her to work. Do not give her money, do not enroll her in anything anymore. She has to work a certain number of hours per week.
She's smart and does succeed when she wants. She just does things for attention. I would suggest for counciling but i dont think this will work with her. She knows what she is doing. SO, make her work. Drop her off at a job and pick her up.
Its unfortunate she is like this. Does she get along with your kids or her own siblings?
My cousin had a stepson who did the same thing you were discribing. He was also 14 at the time. Very mischievous. She even had to put locks. So i told her to look up military academy for his and send him for the entire summer. It worked. BOY DID HE CHANGE! Did he show respect and responsibility.
SHe continue military program during the year and every summer sent him for 3 years until he really got it.

I'm going to try to ignore the things TOS is writing about my situation b/c I know she is just trying to cause problems. I truly don't understand why you would try to do that in a place where you should offer support and encouragement, but whatever...

But I must say...of course I realize that the destruction of a family is not humorous. I was just trying to be a little lighthearted. Their marriage has been over for years. As I've written several times now, my former husband passed away. After his death I found out he had several "girlfriends" on the side. You think that didn't destroy me??? Believe me, I could write a book about destruction.

Anyway...
Thank you, Kathline, for your response to my post. I will admit wholeheartedly that my attitude needs to change, and that's one reason I am here. I'm hoping that by hearing other stories of struggles, listening to what others have been through, it will help me to face my own problems with a better heart. Yes, I admit that I wrote that I don't like Sarah right now. She has lied to me and about me SO much that it makes me physically ill. She has stolen money, clothes, make-up and other belongings from me and 2 of my children, she has called my 12 year old disabled child "retard" right to his face on several occasions. And it's not 1 or 2 times...this is consistent behavior. It is VERY HARD to like someone when they constantly hurt you.

Sarah knows nothing about the fact that we have looked into residential treatment for her. Nothing! We have also NEVER told her that we don't want her, although her own mother has several times. At one point a few months ago, Sarah was mad at dh and me for grounding her for something and she announced, "I want to go live with mommy." She called her mother and directly there on the phone her monther said, "nope, you can't come live here. You cause too many problems and I don't want you." I felt horrible for Sarah, at the same time understanding how bm felt (b/c Sarah, if possible, often acts worse at her mom's house than she does here). We have to check her bags when she comes home on Sunday nights from her mom's house and more often than not, she has stolen something from there.

So yes, Sarah is aware that he bm doesn't like her or want her to live with her, but as I said, she knows nothing about us looking at residential homes and I have NEVER said, "I don't like you, Sarah." Now she might get the feeling that I don't, but isn't that something she needs to earn, kind of like my trust. Would you "like" someone that continued to steal and lie from you CONSTANTLY???

I hope I'm not coming across like I just want people to agree with me, b/c I am VERY open to hearing all opinions. And if you think I'm horrible b/c I said I don't like Sarah much right now, it's okay. Believe me, I feel pretty bad myself and I'm trying to change that. I'm just so frustrated in this situation.

Thanks everyone! :)

Momtolots, Please stop beating yourself up..You sound like you re doing all you can with a difficult situation...I think its great that Kathline had success with her fosters..I have also fostered with less success, but not from lack of trying...Both of my foster girls have been back on holidays and occasions, but it took some growing up on their parts to see their incorrigible behavior had to be changed within themselves, and they have said they can look back and see now how I tried to help them...One has graduated from college, and I couldnt be prouder..So, its not hopeless, just a long hard haul...The best...

I am probably going to respond in small chunks rather than one long message.

I dont think you are horrible for not liking the girl at the moment. I think that is a perfectly normal and expected feeling, considering the circumstances.All I was trying to point out is how the girl herself is most likely feeling. You are justified in what you feel, but alas, so is she. She is just handling the feelings in a very self destructive way. You can see that, but she cannot.

The girl is very aware that no one wants her. You dont have to tell her that. She knows.

You and your husband, and the mother all need to understand that this is not your fault. None of you caused this. Its important for all of you not to blame each other, but to seek to find a way to reach out to this girl. All too often, when kids have problems, it becomes a blame game. That only makes the problem worse. Its rarely about the actions of just one person. Its a combo of circumstances, personalities, needs, and other factors.

On top of t hat, you have to make sure you take care of yourself , and your marriage. You have a full plate with your own children, and with your other steps. You havent been married all that long, so you are still adjusting to the new situation. You didnt even have all that long to grieve what was a a very long, probably happy marriage. YOur 12 year old having CP is very difficult, especially as that child enters his or her teen years. My oldest , now 25, has CP. I remember what it was like. You are severely stressed even without the added problems of Sarah. It is very understandable that you wish it would just go away. But that would be totally the wrong thing for Sarah.

The first thing I would say is, because stealing is a pattern, do you know for certain that there are no drugs involved? Almost always when kids are blatantly stealing like that, there is a drug problem as well. I am sure she would deny it, but its something that you need to find out. Drugs, at that age, are something that kids who are suffering emotional pain do, to help them cope with their lives. Its their way of shutting off the feelings that thell them they are unloved, unwanted, unworthy. Should you find that she is using drugs, you may not be able to stop it. People on drugs do not stop until they want to stop. The reward of the drug is fast and easy, and its not nearly as easy for someone to deal with the underlying problem that caused them to seek out the drug in the first place. No one ever quits unless they are motivated to do so.

More later on the actual problem.

I wonder what do you mean by she steals from parents house? Like what does she take? Does she steal money or just takes something like mom's lipstick (not stealing IMO)

Hi MTL,

I didn't see your response, so maybe I missed it. Anyway, asked about how you found the people you consulted, and if Sarah had had any formal evaluations for learning differences or ADD/ADHD. Someone else mentioned ODD or Conduct Disorder. Did any of her mental health professionals mention these as possible explanations (not excuses) for at least some of Sarah's difficult behavior? Also, when you were given behavior charts and such, did any of these people suggest alternatives to grounding and long term kinds consequences?

Oops...I realized I just responded to the question about what sd is stealing in another subject. I'm sorry! She steals money, jewelry, anything she can get her hands on. We have locks on the bedroom now, but a couple of weeks ago she stole $40 out of my purse when I absentmindedly left it sitting on the counter while I went to my car to unload groceries. Ugh!

yes, that sound like stealing. I will say the same thing: get her help.