Same day, same stuff..Youger SS visited Sat, no card, no gift, older SS E mail Sat Happy Fathers Day , Whats new, after ONE YEAR of no contact...NO deadbeat dad here, these kids should be taken out and whooped...AND dad gave young SS 50 bucks cuz gas is SO high....Generation Duh.....

do exes and other relatives tell grown kids stories? so maybe they are told that dad was never there, did not help, cheated, left you, who knows what else. that's why kids think we'll call once a year but don't expect much love from us. could it be?

Fine, DH has been gone 10 years, He was closer to younger SS, he was 7 when DH left, Older SS was teenager, working weekends and not visiting DH as much...Do think older SS got much more poisoning then younger SS from X and aunts....They make it seem I m keeping them apart..But DH and older son are angry at each other over son asking for money, not getting it, son not really being there for him when he was critically ill, numerous other slights and issues...My advice to him is to crack it open, get it out, tell the truth of whats really going on, not X and aunt version of the truth..He s taken the high road for too long now and resolved nothing....

OP, I doubt that your opinion on the subject matters much to them. If you do stand up for your husband in this situation, you shouldn't expect them to do anything different, in fact it may cause them to avoid their Dad even more because they don't want to be around you and they don't care to hear your opinion on the matter. If it bothers your husband, then he needs to stand up and say so, if he doesn't care enough to say something about it, then you need to let it go. They are not doing anything crappy to you, so you should not be the one to try to stand up and stop it.

I say this as a stepchild who had a complicated relationship with my dad. I did not feel that he did a whole lot to work things out with my mom or even treat her with respect when they were married. He wasn't very involved in my life either. Then, in walks dad's new girlfriend after my parents divorce and she starts dictating to me how she thinks I should treat my dad. Things are better now, but it took quite a while to get to that point. In her opinion she was "sticking up for my dad". In my opinion, she didn't understand all that I had been through and she didn't understand our relationship. She had no feelings for me and she was coming into my life and was trying to tell me what to do. It wasn't out of love, it was out of selfishness. I felt as though she came between us in a big way. Especially from the eyes of a 15 year old.

Please take a step back and let your hubby handle this the way he wants to. Do not give them a piece of your mind. I assure you, it will backfire.

Raek, I think Mrs MD and myself feel the SKs are doing something crappy to us, by hurting some one we love..Do you have kids? If some one hurt them, wouldnt that hurt you?Whereas I would love to step up and bark at the kids hurting my DH , I dont,you are right, not my place to do so, but I FEEL like doing it...Maybe you feel someone came in between you and your dad, but would you prefer him to be alone and miserable the rest of his life..I feel like my SS would like that better, and it hurts me...If you love someone, you want whats best for them, not yourself...

I don't have kids. I do agree with your idea that if someone hurts someone you love, it hurts you too. I'm not saying that it shouldn't. I'm just saying that it is his battle, not yours or OP's. They are his kids and it is their relationship and if he wants it to be better, it won't do any good for his wife to step-up and be the one to speak up and put them in their place. It is not her place to do so and she doesn't have the years of relationship with them in order to be able to take the lead in that way.

If you love him enough you will let him take the lead on this, because if you don't, you risk creating a bigger wedge in his relationship with his children and that will hurt him worse in the long run.

As for the alone an miserable part...I don't want that for him, and like I said before, things are better between us now, but it took a very long time for us to get to that point, and I still don't really like or trust her. I think there could be somebody out there who would be better for him and who would treat him better than she does. She is all around not a very happy person and pretty difficult to be around, but that is who he chose and that is fine with me. I, however, did not choose her, I got stuck with her as a SM and I don't think it was right for me to have to go through all I went through for her, and in a way, I think if he cared for me all that much, he would have put a stop to it all before it even got started.

In other words, love and protection needs to be mutual and the children need to be at the center of all of that becuase that is the essence of being a parent. It is not until you are older that you grow out of the selfish, world revolves around me thing and think about parental happiness. When you are 0-20, it is usually all about you.

Mrsmaddog and Dotz - I have almost the EXACT same situation going on. We call, we e-mail, we text, we leave voicemails and we get nothing in return. Here is a text conversation with FSD13 when I thought she was coming here for Father's Day weekend (which she did not):

Ashley: I need ur thoughts on ur dads gift
FSD13: Ummm idk lol
Ashley: Really u have no idea?
FSD13: No lol what about you
Ashley: (no response to that stupid question)
FSD13: What does he want for day?
Ashley: Maybe something personal like a card and a nice recent pic of you in a frame?
FSD13: Hmm ya lol what do u think
Ashley: I think he would really like that
FSD13: Ya me 2 lol

I mean come on! It's freakin Father's Day and she's 13. When she was little, I would buy the gift and let her give it to her dad. But the last couple of years it's been like pulling teeth to get her to think of anyone else but herself let alone her own father. Oh, but I'd bet money she made sure to do something for SF. AND, she only moved to NM in March. It's not like she's been there forever.

Not to mention this conversation was a beating! She acts dingy and I know she's extremely intelligent.

SHE IS 13! I don't know if you remember being 13, but based on the 1979, you are younger than me, so I'm sure you do. Girls that age are the most self-interested people on the planet! You all need to realize that is what teenagers do. Just because they are starting to grow into adults does not mean they think like adults yet.

Ash, Do you have any thoughts on BM being behind the no card, no call no gift? When younger SS was not old enough to drive, my DH would take him shopping for gifts for BM Christmas, Bday, Mothers Day, but she never extended same to him by taking him shopping or encouraging him to buy dad something..I know the older has said to DH, we dont have enough money, Mom tries to budget and spend well(she has chosen not to work , lives off CS)I suspect she encourages them not to spend a penny on DH, because THEY have SO much, we have SO LITTLE...Lord knows I dreaded the visit after we got the big screen TV LOL

I m sure not all teenagers are so self absorbed..There must be one or two well raised, thoughtful kids who can think of some one other than themselves for one day...I walked to the drugstore when I was 6 to buy my mom a gift...Noone told me to..Kids should be a little smarter than that at 13....

I think most 6 year olds are less self-absorbed than teenagers. But if you are talking about how they are raised and what would make them more thoughtful in that, look to Mom AND DAD. I was a thoughful kid too and did a lot for my Mom. She also did a lot for me. But at 13, I had so many other things on my mind. Self-esteem issues, friends and fitting in, wearing the right clothes, having the right hair, avoiding mean girls at school, does that boy like me?, etc., etc. Add to that the fact that I only see my Dad EOW, if that much. It isn't easy being that age and it's even harder when you are a child of divorce. I just think you should cut these kids some slack. If Dad wants to put up with it and not say anything about it, why is it any skin off your teeth?

raek, I agree with everything you wrote, except:

"It wasn't out of love, it was out of selfishness."

It WAS out of love. It was out of love for her husband, not you. But, I do agree that it's up to the parents to maintain their own relationship with their child and nobody, not even the other parent has control over how the child feels about it. We may think it's unfair when someone treats our loved ones in a way that makes us hurt for them, but it's not our place to 'do' or say something about it. I think Mother's Day and Father's Day are 'hallmark' holidays to sell cards and a lot of useless junk. (stuff that says 'happy mothers/fathers day') Don't get me wrong, I celebrate them sometimes... plan a family get together or I took my dad, my husbands parents and my brother in law's family out for dinner this year. I didn't buy a card. I don't need a card to tell my dad how much I love him. I show him by having a good relationship with him the rest of the year.. on a daily basis. My husband didn't get a card or gift from his daughter. He wasn't upset. Personally, I think it's overrated.

Dotz, I don't mean to offend you or your husband, but who cares about getting a card or call from kids that don't bother to call the rest of the year?

Anyone that feels their husband/wife deserves recognition and the kids don't do it, then they have you to buy them a card or gift or tell them what a wonderful parent they are. It's a lot easier to see the child as being selfish or thoughtless than to realize that maybe the parent did something to cause the child to feel distant or not want to call or have a relationship as an adult. In my experience, little kids love their parents and want the parents to love them back no matter how the parents may treat them. As they get older and mature, they may make assumptions or come to realizations about their parents and that may be when they choose to stay away. I agree that teenagers (and some young adults) in general are less interested in parent/child relationships than young children or adult children.

SIDE NOTE: My 19 year old son that just met his father in January of this year, called his father on Father's Day and invited him out to lunch.

If, after 18 years of his father abandoning him, he is willing to extend an olive branch, then it reinforces my opinion that kids want a relationship and those that don't call their parents that were in their lives ongoing, are probably angry or hurt over things that happened in their life. They may be wrong about how things really happened, but that may be how they perceive things. But, then again... all kids are different and some just can't be explained, I can't rule out pure selfishness.

I am 29 and it was 16 years ago when I was 13. And, yes, I remember it. And, no, I was not that self-centered. And, yes, I did things on Father's and Mother's day for my parents.

Yes, I do think that her mother has something to do with it. I make about 1/4 of the money she does in a day/month/year........whatever. We had been dating like 3 months when she came to me at one of FSD's basketball games and said something like 'Do you think you can handle FSD's Christmas gift to her dad this year since I've been doing it since the divorce?' I was totally all for that, but we were only dating and not even serious. BM has been pushing FSD since she was 8 to have her call her SF "dad". Last year for Father's Day, she took FSD from BF's home to go get SF his Father's Day gift. Talk about a slap in the face when she could've done it at any time during the week.

My BF IS VERY involved in her life, even though she moved in March. He calls her just about every-other day and hurts every time she doesn't return a call, text or voicemail. So what is he supposed to do about that? What is he supposed to say? Is he supposed to FORCE her to think of him? Is he supposed to say "Well, that was very rude of you to not get me something for Father's Day" or make her feel guilty because she's so self-absorbed? That's the very thing her BM would do. And am I to continue to buy the gift and tell her what she got him? Is it wrong of me to ask her what she would like to give her dad? I'm already doing the reminding and I'm already doing the buying, all I'm asking is that she freakin THINK about her dad for five freakin minutes to tell me what she wants ME to buy him. That's it!

I know it's frustrating, but it is her age. Why don't you take her shopping with you to pick out the gift. You spend more time with him than she does and would probably have a better idea of what to get him than she does.

No, her Dad should not at this point make her feel guilty because she is self absorbed, but you shouldn't walk around resenting her for it either. It isn't about you, that is all I'm saying. If you don't want to be the one to go out and buy the gift, if you think she should be the one to do it, then don't be the one. If he doesn't get a father's day gift from his kid, is that the end of the world for him?

Also, if you talk to your parents they may have a different view of your attitude at age 13. You probably just didn't realize it because you didn't have a SM around to remind you all of the time of just how selfish you were.

Nice...............

I'm just saying that I probably wouldn't have realized my selfish behavior if that wasn't thrown in my face around every corner. I think many bioparents are more tolerant that steps because the affection just isn't there. I'm saying that it isn't something you had to deal with as a child, but maybe it's something you can consider when you are dealing with her. I'm sorry for the way that came out.

I have always reminded my DD to remember her Dad at his birthday and holidays. I doubt he returns the favor. But I do it becuase it is the right thing. What I would like to know of all the people who rant about Fathers day not being remembered, does Dad remind child, and at a young age, assist with shopping, driving,etc., that child remember moms.

KKNY, You must have missed my post, Yes, DH DID push kid to buy for BM and drove...IMA, I think the card, call was important because in the year past, I saw every holiday as an opportunity for SS to reconnect with DH..I just figured he would be more comfortable after all the silence to call on a holiday, I dont know, sentimental reasons , or whatever..Its not a monetary thing , actually he did send a sweater thru his brother at Christmas, but with no communication, and I did see that as a worthless effort....

Some of your replies were so not based on reality.
FD- DH raised these kids, had full custody for about two years, and was as involved as possible when BM moved them 800+ miles away. SHE cheated, got PG, dumped DH for TOM after about 18 months of DH raising TOM's child. Of course BM tells HER story, the one she has molded and amended and outright fabricated over the past 12 years. She can't have any blame point to herself at all. DH will readily admit his mistakes. He will and has discussed a lot with his adult children.
Yes, all teenagers have more important things on their minds than Mother's and Father's Day, but to not call even late in the evening? I know that the combination of teenagers+new stepparent=issues, and never said I expected GIFTS,or even cards. A phone call, that's it.
It does hurt me, because it hurts my DH. I can't just ignore the situation, as I am here to see and hear the pain! I was the one here for the 16 months BM denied visitation! I am the one who now will listen to DH as he talks about not seeing his 2 youngest kids until Christmas or maybe next summer.
KKNY- DH used to have the ability to take the kids shopping, bake a cake, serve breakfast in bed, whatever, when he was married to their BM, and probably some of that after the divorce. At 15, 16, 17 I think the SC are old enough to buy a card and a stamp! He does make sure my kids do something for Mother's Day.
Raek- Ha, my BC have me and DH around 365 to remind them how selfish they are, so what? Perhaps more parents, Bio or otherwise need to address this younger generation's self-centered and thoughtless attitude. That's another thread... "Because they are teenagers" has become too convenient an excuse!
As far as me thinking I have any influence over these kids, I assure you, I got over such foolish notions pretty darned fast. That doesn't mean I don't feel like calling them out!
As my OP subject line stated, this was my RANT. Telling them off won't help, but I can guarantee MIL will say something, first chance she gets.
It's easy for all of you to say "let DH tell his kids" but if you were in his shoes, would you? When my BC do or say something to hurt me, DH has no problem telling them, even though he is just the SF.

"I don't know if you remember being 13, but based on the 1979, you are younger than me, so I'm sure you do."

I went back to the meet the posters thread and you were 28 in May 07 when you posted. Same as me. We are the same age.

I turned 30 in May...My BD is in 1978. In May of 07 I was about to turn 29. I'm not sure what difference that makes.

My point is that we were all more selfish that we probably remember being as teens and that it doesn't make a relationship between father and child any better when SM tries to give her 2 cents. It doesn't matter how she feels about it from the childs point of view. If it doesn't bother the dad enough for him to do something about attitude or behavior, then it shouldn't bother SM that much. To the kid, it just feels like you are nit-picking and that you are inventing reasons not to like them. I agree that the kids should do more and that you have a valid point (if the Dad is very involved and makes efforts for the kids), but you will make things worse if you get involved as a SM. If you care about your husband and his feelings and his relationship with his kids and if you want them to be close, the very last thing you should do is to give them a piece of your mind. I can almost guarantee that you and hubby will both regret that move.

"If it doesn't bother the dad enough for him to do something about attitude or behavior, then it shouldn't bother SM that much."

It does bother him. Very much so. To the point of tears sometimes. But, honestly, how is he supposed to tell her how it hurts him without it being a guilt-trip? What should he say t her? If BM doesn't care then who's to tell her how her actions are effecting someone else?

"that it doesn't make a relationship between father and child any better when SM tries to give her 2 cents"

I have never once said anything to FSD about her behavior or lack of concern or consideration. That is not my place. I have never told her that she's selfish or anything of that sort. I don't get involved. Really. That's why I come on this site. To get my frustration out and find others who have the same things going on. I talk to FDH about it but that's as far as I go.

I will instill a sense of consideration for others in my DS. It is my view that parents should instill these things in their children no matter what. With BM, it's obvious that she's actually promoting the breakdown in the relationship with FDH while pushing for her family and SF to become top priority.

Above is just one example of a situation that is much more than the normal selfishness of a teenager. I do believe, in my situation, that FSD is abnormally selfish and abnormally materialistic. Those are things that FDH and BM have let happen and evolve into something that is out of control.

I do appreciate your view as a SD yourself. It is really good to hear the other side of things. I did not grow up in a divorced home, but my son is in one and my FDH is in one so you have a perspective different from what I know. Not all stepmoms are created equal. I love my FSD so very much and a lot of my frustration is because I feel hurt by BM, too. Me & my DS are in a prickly spot where we love someone and feel connected to them, but basically aren't allowed anything more.

I'm sure that is a frustrating position to be in. I have no idea what FDH can do, but maybe the guilt thing isn't such a bad idea, or he can point out to her that she needs to acknowledge the special days of others and not make it about himself. He should incourage her to do things for you and your kids and her siblings, if she has any, and her mom. He can make an effort to spend time with her when it is not a special occasion, but just because. I missed how far you all live from one another, but the more time he spends with her, the more vested she will be in his happiness. It may be that she doesn't grow out of this phase, and then that is a whole different ball game. I have no patience for grown adults who behave like they are stuck in their teens for life. I really believe it is a matter of demonstrating how you should behave and being a good leader. It is especially true when you are working against the BM's attitude. My only advice would be that it would be a good idea to praise her for the good things she does and encourage her in the most postitive way possible to behave in a way that is unselfish. I believe that she will grow out of it with some good, positive leadership from her dad and from you. Vent all you want on this site, but I would discourage any SM in this situation from speaking up to the kid about it because I believe that it usually backfires. I know it's a tough position, but hopefully if you have patience, you will all come out of it in one piece and she will appreicate you even more when all is said and done.

Hang in there!

"But, honestly, how is he supposed to tell her how it hurts him without it being a guilt-trip?"

He needs to have a heart to heart talk with her. He doesn't need to snap at her, accuse her of not loving him or say anything that is intended to make her feel guilty. But, he can say "I love you very much and it hurts when you ______". Will it make her feel guilty? Maybe. Should she? Maybe. If her mom is keeping her from having a relationship with her dad and she knows her dad wants a relationship, then she will eventually resent her mom. If her dad never tells her he wants that relationship, just because he knows he will be rejected, then she may just believe everything she's told about him. He needs to talk to her and let her know how he feels, even if she ends up rejecting him. It may be her mom that is driving it or it may be other things, but he can't give up. If he does, that is all she is going to remember.

Telling a child (or anyone else for that matter) how selfish they are is only going to get a defensive reaction. It is very easy for a custodial mom to influence the child one way or the other. It's very sad when they encourage the child to cut off a relationship with the dad. It would have been very easy for me to do that with my kids and tell them how terrible their dad is for not sticking around and going off and having another family with kids he did raise. Instead, I told my kids that things didn't work out and I didn't know why their father's did what they did. I didn't 'encourage' them to be angry at their dad, even though I'm sure they knew I didn't care if he fell off the face of the earth. In the end, the kids will decide if they want the relationship and my son does, my daughter doesn't. If I had said terrible things (even though it was the truth) about their dad, they may end up angry at me or resenting me for being the one to prevent a relationship. If your BF's ex is poisoning their daughter against him, she is going to have to deal with it later on. But, your BF should be doing everything he can to let his daughter know how much he loves her.

Thanks for the help and the really good advice! I am e-mailing it to BF right now. Mrsmaddog and Dotz - I hope their helping me can help you, too.

Up until March, FSD lived about 1/2 mile away. Now shee lives about 600 miles away. This physical distance has only been for the past 3 months, but the emotional distance started in 2006 when BM took FSD out of one activity that BF helped participate in and put her in an activity that only BM and SF participaated in (and BF and I could participate only when asked by BM).

I do hope that eventually FSD will use her own brain and what she sees with her own 2 eyes to make her decisions about her dad and I.

Father's Day and Mother's Day are not that big a deal for a lot of people. They are like Valentine's Day for us except there is no opportunity to buy half price candy the day after - you say Happy Mother's Day if you happen to be together, but no call is "required." I agree with ima that they are largely commercial holidays. I wouldn't want my kids to waste several dollars on a card. When my kids were really little, they would make us cards, but it would be kind of silly for a teenager to do that.

Obviously the adult SKs should be able to buy their own card/gift/recognize Dad in their own way. Those who are under 18 need assistance, in my opinion, and those of us who are SMs should help them. I have always bought DH a gift and card from the SKs for Father's Day (they are 12 and 14 now) and the gift is now also from all of the kids, which includes DH and my 2 DS, age 7 and 11 mos. I certainly don't expect their BM to buy DH a Father's Day gift from the SKs! DH also helps out by telling me what he wants, which works out well for all. After DSS reach 18, I think it's up to them, but hopefully, if nothing else, they'll recognize him in some way out of tradition! The thing I don't like is that DH does not get me a Mother's Day gift from the SKs (never has!) and I get no recognition from them, though DH gets a card and gift from our bio DSs for Mother's Day.

Well this is what happened last year for my DH. no card , no gift, no acknowledgement of fathers day until the morning of and while he was passing by the hallway, SD says oh yah, happy fathers day.
Well i had a feeling that this would happen cause i asked her the two weeks before if she had any ideas and she didnt answer.
I said to myself, she's gonna plan to hurt him. Well i'll make sure he's gonna have a net from me.
So the day came and of course no card , no gift last year. I can tell he was hurt. So when h e took the kids to drive up ( its takes 3 hours to go and come back) I created a card for him several pages thick that was from our son, went out got a new guitar and some clothes for him while my friend baby sat.
So when he came back he was completely surprised at the gifts and friends and when he read that card, he cried like a baby. His sister phoned at the time and hecouldnt get on the phone.
Well my husband displayed that card over the fireplace with pride and when his kids came and saw it they freaked. THe mouths dropped. SS immediately said 'i wrote a card but forgot it at home' i said nothign stopped you from bringing it this weeekend. SD was silent the entire weekend. And silent for over 2 months after that.
I do not like anyone who plans things in advance to hurt someone. That was so obvious and i wasn't gonnna let her do that. I let her make her own decision and let her look like the idiot for not doing anything for her father. I'm not going to push anything on his kids. THey have ot do it on their own.
THis year was great. I threw a barbq party with gifts and a large people gathering and my husband loved it! He got his traditional thick card from my son. I also added a poster with all the kids pictures for good measure and put all the kids names. SD brought a card and 2 gifts for her father this year.
SS brought nothing but he acknowledged the day and liked the poster since the pics were all of the kids.
So you see, the kids have tto do this on their own. THey cannot be pushed by anyone. If they don't want to give something to their father its their loss, he will celebrate that day with or without them and i will make sure he'll have a good time. My stepkids realize this. They are good kids and we all have our ups and downs but this year turned out nice for hubby.
As for mothers day. I was always acknowledged except for this year. I was told happy mom day by both kids afterwards when they saw me drink out of my MOM cup which i proudly displayed:) Cause lets face, it doesn't matter who doesnt acknowlege what and where. ITs how you feel and what you will do about that day. Me, i enjoyed mothers day and i didn't care who called me and who didn't.
WHO CARES! HAVE FUN FOR YOURSELVES! Anyone who doesn't want to have fun, its their loss.
:)

I once heard a good suggestion somewhere when it comes to raising children.

When they are children, the parent should make most of the effort in the relationship to provide them with a good example.

When the children become adults, the parent can decide to meet them half-way in terms of effort. Hopefully, the children will step up and do more if they weren't making much effort previously. If not, the parents do not have to continue to do everything.

So if the children have forgotton mom, dad, stepmom or stepdad on special occations, the parent does not have to give the adult children money (or other things) when they ask for it. The parents don't have to send cards to the ungrateful adult children either on special occasions.
The parents can just relax and not feel guilty.

It's better to take this approach rather than suffer the hurt of being considerate to adult children who don't appreciate what you have done for them.

You can still be polite, but beyond that it's up to you.