Sorry -- But since your daughter is the 4 year old, I'm going to have to say I understand the BioMom's position. At a swimming pool particularly, a 4-year old needs an entirely different level of parental attention than children who are slightly older, and presumably, better swimmers. And frankly, the 4 year old isn't hers. What could she do if there were an emergency? An accident? Even a minor one?

Of course, I can see why this would bother you, and also why it would hurt your daughter's feelings. But to BioMom, having her children be 'seamless siblings' to your daughter just isn't a priority the way it is to you. And sadly, this is just something you're going to have to explain to your youngest as a 'fact of life.'

When this happens, I'd suggest you do something special with your youngest so she doesn't feel so left out -- maybe something the other three have outgrown?

That said, it would still be nice if she would include your little girl every once in a while.

that is more of the point .... it is not just the swimming it is for everything... she has done this before ... and for other things too... like getting the three candy after school and sending them home with it... So they come home with candy to the four year old who doesnt get any and gets upsest about it. (Not that I even like for them to have candy after school anyways ... but not really the point) My hubby says not everyone has the same heart that I do but it just bugs the crap out of me... I want to tell her that if she wants to do something like that she needs to just plan to keep them for the night that way it's less of a slap in the face for the little one.

Mom of 4:

I personally wouldn't want my husband's ex to ever do anything w/ my (his and mine) boys. She's a nut who went from being a maniac to a born-again Christian carrying a candid photo of our oldest, as a baby, around in her wallet! It kind of freaked me out - she snapped his picture at her DD's v-ball game, cut it and kept it in her wallet.

Your situation is different in that maybe you trust this woman w/ your DD. However, she has no ties to your DD, so I'm w/ sweeby about using this time for one-on-one fun time w/ DD. She may have something planned that is best for her oldest, and she's pushing the envelope a bit to include her other biokids, but doesn't feel comfortable having your DD there - could be a movie or something like that that a younger child might not enjoy/be right for.

My 4 y.o.'s (almost 5) Godmother has a son my 7 y.o.'s age. Last summer, she picked up both of my boys along w/ her son from golf camp and decided to take the two then-6y.o.'s to a movie. The 4 y.o. asked, "Can I come?" and she said that he could. Personally, when she told me of her plans to take the two older ones to a movie, I was a little appalled that she'd exclude the younger one (and he's not a baby, well-behaved, etc) that I know she loves. I just didn't get it. I mean, the younger one is her Godson and how can you "drop one off" then head out for fun w/ the other two? Anyway, I was glad she took all three. Maybe three is overwhelming for her or something, but I'd never dream of inviting our neighbor's son to a movie and not allow his sisters to join us, etc.

Maybe your husband's ex is looking to reconnect to 'her' kids and the thought of having a fourth around is too much for her. I understand your position, and when my brother had a child w/ a woman who had a son, I'd never think to exclude that boy from any outing we took and always brought him Christmas gifts, etc. However, w/ you having custody of the skids, you don't have to make a choice of not including them in everything you do. Their mom does not feel the same, so ask their BM to let you know in advance of any plans so you can already have your DD out w/ you for some fun.

Good luck,
Dana

yes, I can see the point of wanting some time with her kids... and actually there are some situations that I would not trust her to have my daughter with her...
(and I suppose the swimming thing was a bad example it's just the most recent one) But, if she can include her bf's three year old then why leave out only one child that is in the mix... especially when it is something easy like going to the park...

Would it be unreasonable for us to say if you are not going to include her then you need to plan to take the kids for the night if you can't keep them for the night then plan this event for a different day.

Part of the problem is that half the time she doesnt 'plan' it. She just calls that day... like the other day with the swimming.... I was at work and there really wasnt anyway I could do something with my daughter or even plan around it.

In that case I would just explain to her what you are explaining to us. And ask her if she could please not make any last mintue requests anymore, as it is not fair to you. Regardless if they are her kids and she feels entitled to pick them up whenever she wants, it's not fair for you to have to plan around it. Make sure you say that you do understand her reasons for maybe not taking your DD, but that you just have to plan a little better so that she does not feel left out. That way if you know ahead of time the 3 SK's are going somewhere, you can explain to DD ahead of time as well and plan something with her. (Special mommy and me time) You can turn it into something your daughter looks forward to instead of being upset.

No, I don't think it's unreasonable to ask that she keep her kids for the night if this arises again. And, if she's including her boyfriend's 3 y.o. then it surely is something that your 4 y.o. could also enjoy. However, I don't know how much help the oldest is, but if he/she isn't a huge help, I wouldn't feel comfortable having this woman in charge of possibly 5 kids unless the bf is there, too.

I think the bigger issue, and this whole post is just an example of the underlying sentiments that are bothering you, is that you've bent over backwards for her children and she's never shown your DD one act of kindness or anything in return. That isn't right and your DD is young, doesn't understand the division of families, or why her mommy is always w/ her half/stepsiblings and their mommy doesn't seem to want her around. Though she likes the woman now, this will build and she won't understand it. Maybe your DD is a reminder of what she let go or could have had. Who knows? She also may not realize that you'd like her to be included every so often. I think your approach is a good one - tell her that if she wants time w/ her kids that doesn't include your DD, you'd like her to keep the kids overnight as it's easier to explain to your child. Also, add that she'd best give notice, again if DD isn't welcomed, so you can make adjustments in your schedule to accomodate your 4 y.o. Maybe say that your DD was a little hurt that she wasn't included in the swimming adventure and to spare her feelings in the future, you'd appreciate more notice unless your DD is also allowed to go. She may be shocked that you'd not forbid it or just ignore you, but it's worth a try.

Good luck,
Dana

If her separation agreement is anything like mine (and I think mine is pretty standard because my lawyer didn't have an original bone in her body) - the NCP has the right to "reasonable" spontaneous visitation, and is not required to keep the children for any particular length of time. My ex-husband has called up the kids and taken them out to an unplanned lunch or movie on a number of occasions. The NCP is not even required by law to take all of his own children to any particular activity.

Even aside from the issue that your daughter is not in any way related to your stepchildren's mother, and the fact that she is only 4 and I would never consider supervising someone else's 4 year old in a pool, it is not at all unusual for a subset of kids to be invited somewhere. I almost can't remember the last time when ALL of my kids were invited to go swimming or to any other activity.

In some families, it seems to be the expectation that if one kid is invited, that means they're ALL invited. My son had this friend, and each time we invited him over, (party, sleepover) his mom dropped off the two younger brothers at the same time. We planned for 1 and got 3! OK - the party was borderline, and not an inconvenience as we were over-run with little boys anyway, but the second time? It was the last invitation to our house. Different cultures, perhaps...

Sweeby -- I never heard of this -- sounds like these people are moochers. Agreed, last time for them. Feel sorry for the invited boy, he may never know why invitations stopped.

I do not think that you should expect the biomom of your stepkids to take your child along on outings. (as for me hell would have frozen over before I would trust my stepkids mom with my child!) I do see your hurt feelings point though.

I have 3 stepkids, almost the same ages as yours and I have my own child from a prevous marriage who is the same age as my oldest stepchild (10). I do not expect my ex to take my stepkids out with him when he picks up our child. And he takes our child to movies, bowling, mimi-golfing, and everything else. And when my stepkids mother used to see her kids I never tried to have her take my child with them. They would come back talking about fun activities on occassion. The kids have never seen this as a problem. They understand that they do not all share the same parents, and sometimes they do not get to go where the others go. (And I do have an almost 5 yr old stepchild)

The only time jealousy has occurred is around holidays. The stepkids have out of state family on their moms side who send gifts. When my stepkids mothers family sends them stuff my child has complained about the fact that she did not get anything, but then I point out to her that her dads family buys her presents and not her stepsiblings. Letting the kids know that everything may not always be the same for everyone has been a hard thing to teach, but as time goes on they understand it more.

As for me, when my stepkids used to visit their mother I took the opportunity to get some one-on-one time with my daughter. She loved it and even looked forward to the others leaving! So maybe when the stepkids leave set up a "movie time" or a picnic in the backyard. Or take the time to curl your daughters hair and play dress-up. Those are all activities I have done with my daughter and she has loved the quality time with just me, and I am the hero to her without having to spend the money on afternoon outings that my stepkids mom does!

While I understand and have been a big advocate of not everyone gets to do exatly what the other one is doing, as I said there is a difference between including all of the children except her and (for example) the oldest being invited to a birthday party and the rest staying home.

And yes, there are some underlying bad feelings in that I do everything possible for her kids to make sure they are treated the same as mine... and as I said if the situation asks I include her bfs kids .... and she does not include my daughter.

That said, I talked to hubby this weekend and we decided it was time to have a sit down with BM as this is not the only issue that is in the air ... but we both agree that it is really not to much to ask that she either include my daughter or plan to keep the kids over night... my daughter understands spending quality time with their mom she does not understand and shouldnt have to understand why she cant go to the park or wherever when everyone else gets to go....

When things are planned ... we know to plan something for her... and actually she ... a lot of the times... enjoys spending some time alone with my hubby since he is her step dad and her dad is not alive... she feels special... but for a four year old ... especially my little dress wearing tom boy ... activities with the kids especially ones that are out doors are the greatest things in the world...

I am sorry to hear about the loss of your first husband. Does your DD have relatives on her father's side? Arent there times they want to see her? I think your expectations of your DD being including with her stepbrothers and stepsisters at her moms are not realistic. This is not just an issue of age appropriate, or not everyone gets to go everywhere, but also the skids mother is not your babysitter. A court will not enforce this, and will likely view as unreasonable.

She does have family on her dad's side... which she does go and visit quite often when the kids go to their mom's which helps her feel like she gets to do something special too...

Also, I do not in any way shape or form see the BM or even want to use her as a babysitter... I am merely trying to make sure that all of the children that live in my household are treated fairly... and I honestly don't think it is too much to say if she wants to take her kids to the park to keep them for the night or include the youngest...

I am not particularly concerned about the court at this point.. according to everything else the kids are supposed to be living with her ... but alas they live with us...

I know that when it comes down to it ... she is not her mother ... but the fact is we are dealing with children and I dont think any children should suffer the intricacies of adult problems... just as I (as I said earlier) wouldn't presume to pick up her kids from her house to go to the beach without inviting her bf's children as well... I dont think it is right

She and her BF have a current relationship, just as you and your DH do. People who are in relationships frequently include the others children in outings. I think if you include this with other, more reasonable requests, you will lose credibility and risk being viewed as asking for too much.

I wouldn't push the issue either.

mom of 4, I am in a somewhat similar situation. There is no best answer to your problem, but perhaps this will help. Rather than focusing on the BioMom, focus on your daughter. Whenever possible, when a situation like this arises, arrange to do something very fun one-on-one with your daughter. Treat it as an opportunity to focus on her. Let go of your anger and resentment toward the ex and focus on your love for your daughter. That way she will not suffer unduly in the situation.

Incidentally, there's no way that things are always fair for every kid. Just doesn't work that way.

Believe me, I know how hard this is. I also know that the alternative is a definite no-win. You can't force other people to see or do things your way . . . .

I wouldn't want her taking my child. This is a good time for ya'll to have some alone time w/o the other kids. If I was in her shoes it wouldn't occur to me to include the other child.

I can tell you right now if I were her, I would not include your child, I want time with my children without someone else tagging along. Your child is not her child or her responsibility. And you need to tell your daughter ...that is their mom, they need time alone with her.

Hubby and I have talked and decided that she will not be picking the kids up for only and hour or two to do something like go to the park or whatever without including the other children in the family (or child) it's not about us grown ups its about the kids and there is no good reason why she cant go to the park for instance... if she wants to pick them up and doesnt want to include the youngest then she will have to keep them for the night. We give the same care and concern for her bfs children and have no reason but to expect the same for our household.

I hope this agreement works out for you guys. Luckily, this hasn't been a problem in our case because I wouldn't trust DH's ex to keep my guppie, but I know that is not your situation. I hope you guys can come to some compromise.