I really don't understand the issue of your SD's being a "distraction" to your children, and why, if that is the case, that is a bad thing. This has nothing to do with the fact that I am a biological mother. There is a large gap between my oldest and youngest - 15 years - not that much smaller than the gap between your SD and your oldest. I too am an older mother - I was almost as old as you are now when my youngest was born. One of my younger children is learning disabled. As you know, I live in a tiny, crowded house. Having their older siblings home was an overwhelmingly positive experience. I can see how younger siblings can distract the older ones from their homework, or wake up the older ones (happened all the time around here), but what do 3, 5 , and 7 year olds have to be distracted from?? They don't even have much homework. They often went to my older kids for help with "creative" projects; I can't even begin to enumerate all the ways having another adult in the house, an adult with different skills, interests, and talents from mine, was helpful - even though they definitely had their own social lives/jobs. The little ones miss their older siblings so much - almost as much, perhaps as much, as I do. The older kids weren't always sweet and polite to their younger siblings, or to me, but we were FAMILY. Of course we still are, but even getting together for Christmas requires the planning skills of a 5 star general. I sincerely believe that the bond between siblings, whether whole, half, or adopted, is just as important as that between parent and child. The older kids went off to college within a year or two of when their father left, and I think that the younger ones were more distraught about their absence than the absence of their father.

to TOS your keyword in your whole post was HELPFUL. This SD is not helpful has no regard for anyone else in the house. Selfish spoiled child(since she won't support herself). Your older children were helpful to you and your younger ones. 3, 5 and 7 do get distracted and sad when an older sibling promises something and doesn't deliver. Just as sad as they would if a anyone "promised" something and forgot about it. I think you enjoy your older children being home because of adult companionship.

No kids are not sweet to each other ... but if your older ones said something to a younger one that was out of line you could say something and it be heard and respected. If she defends her little ones its because she hates the older one. "Tattling" to daddy how bad SM is. In a step family everyone feelings have to be taken into account. Most SM's have to bite their tongues because everything is blown out of proportion.

Hubby told Vista it was a "temporary situation" that has extended beyond temporary. Vista wants to know is it permanent? if so then she can enforce some house rules. But if its just temporary she has overstayed her welcome. SD expects to be catered too she is quite old enough to fend for herself has a decent job.

She does not have the support of hubby. So she comes here to express herself rather than start a brawl with hubby on an issue he can't find to time to resolve. She just wants to be heard and no one in her "family" will listen. I can't relate to her situation mine are much younger. But If my own 22 yo came home temporarily it would be temporary or there would be same rules as when she was younger. My house MY rules.

Vista the only advice I could offer is ... Ask hubby is it more important to keep you happy or his "adult daughter"?

VISTA,

Rock that Boat and live with all the drama again. Believe me it too shal past and if you wait on your DH to have this talk with your SD, you will be waiting a long, long time!!! Believe me, i have had stepchildren for 18 years.

Who cares what SD thinks. She is not showing any respect towards you or her father. And don't you worry about hurting her feelings. Is she worried about hurting yours or about bothering the whole family with her selfish needs and wants!!!!NO!!!

Keep posting.

For 18 years I waited for DH to tell his SD about this or that. He never did.

Do what you think is right. Don't only think with your heart but with your head. If SD is upset and mad at at what you wil tell her, don't let it bug you.

Well, when I asked for support and coping mechanisms, I was hoping you'd not feel the need to post unless you were able to support or give me coping strategies.

I have to say that I've almost felt attacked by you on the couple of instances I have shared my story here. I believe (I could be wrong and apologize if I am) you dismissed my ulcer as unrelated to the current stress I am under. Of course we all know ulcers are not caused by stress, but are aggravated by it. As I think I told you, I had a horrible MVA in my late 20's, took a lot of ibuprofen, probably gave myself the start of one then but never had the physical problems I had last month when this situation began getting under my skin.

I also think it was you who asked about me paying my mother for childcare. I do, as I explained, keep her on my payroll since she used to work for me. I didn't want my having a family to impact her financially, and I'd have to pay someone if I chose to return to work at all. I felt like you implied I took advantage of my mother. She is my biggest supporter and my hero - the only person I've ever been able to always turn to and receive help. Yet, she's very torn in this case as she understands my DH's point of view since she is a huge enabler of my brother and cousins. She is annoyed by my being taken advantage of but also worries that DH will resent me if I force the issue. I do understand that and that isn't what I would like to do. But, if I knew this was permanent, I would appreciate being able to have some say in the matter as well as the ability to have him back me on the house rules. Sometimes she calls to say she won't be home, other times she does not. There are too many inconsistencies.

Finally, it is wonderful and apparent that your older children have returned to the nest and that things, while not always smooth, have been mutually beneficial to all parties. Are these stepchildren you speak of? See, I'm not sure. I tried to see if you posted on the "Meet the Posters" thread, but as of last night, didn't see anything.

As I concluded my last post to you on the second thread, I think you and I ought to agree to disagree. I don't need to be attacked nor do I need to justify the way I feel. I'm more sorry than anyone that my steps cannot waltz into my life and NOT cause disruption to my children, but they do. I'm not sure why you have such disbelief of that as the child psychologist I saw last month said that it is VERY disruptive for young kids to have older kids around. My steps also cause disruption to my routine and it's already a tight one w/ little margin for error. There's no outside help - I'm the cook, the maid, the gardener, etc.

I really hoped that I'd have a great realtionship w/ these kids (I was naive) and tried to work w/ my husband's kids. As I said, I took in my gay stepson when his mother would not. She did, however, "out" him to her church and chastised me for "letting his soul burn in hell" by not trying to "turn" him straight. Anyway, I went to bat for that boy more times than I could count and after his phase of niceness, his true colors came out and here I am, stuck w/ his bills. Yes, my fault for cosigning, but I hope you can somehow see that I'm not a selfish stepmonster as I really wanted him to get his degree and believed in him.

The girls have never been warm to me. My gifts were always returned as I probably spoke of earlier. I've been embarrassed at functions in the first years of my marriage, just more or less ignored at the later ones.

As I said, the only times they really struck up conversations w/ me was when DH flew them home for weekends and they wanted my convertible. They would even make a habit out of going out in my car and calling their dad to meet them at a nice restaurant w/ friends. Once, my patient was the hostess and she said, "Are you Dr. P's daughters?" They said that they were and she said that she was my patient and asked if I'd be joining them. They giggled and said, "Let's just say NO to that!" My patient came in and told me about this and said, "I'm sorry, but your SDs are two of the biggest
b!tches I've ever seen!" I've had a few other similar incidences and I've just tried not to fret over it. However, since I am not included for anything and they seem to not treat their mother in a similar manner, I'm not sure why they always plop in on me. I have my theories, but you don't seem interested.

I suppose you are a SM or your kids have a SM or you wouldn't be here. Maybe I was incorrect in coming here for support or maybe I'm overly sensitive as I know what's written in black and white cannot always tell the true sentiments.

I think Cawfe has summed it up well for me - she's right on all counts. It's a matter of deceipt, disrespect, and the final deal about Toys 'R Us has just broken my back. This woman is selfish and spoiled and gets loud in order to get her way. These are NOT traits I want my kids copying, and they have asked why she is always yelling at dad. She's sweet and quiet usually, if she thinks I can hear her, but then she just barks at my husband for anything and everything. Yes, the issue is his but this is MY house and I DO NOT want my kids feeling as if it is OK to disrespect any adult, let alone their father, in that manner.

So, I come here for support as Cawfe said. I don't have DH's support in actions, only in words. I do not want to nag him about it or attack the SD in his eyes. Our marital closeness and life in general have suffered this past month. Again, I was told this was temporary and was happy to help on a 3-4 m. basis though I did fear this would either never end (just like this) or that she would throw tantrums and come between DH and I (like what happened last month.) I've always heard it's easier NOT to allow someone to move in than to get them to move out. I'm finding this out. Sadly, instead of gratitude, my SD is angry if the boys awaken her before noon on weekends. If I leave her dirty dishes and laundry to pile up until she cleans up after herself, I fear I'd have no room in my laundry room or in the kitchen sink. I have left them on occasion, but they don't go away til I take care of them. I need help, not an extra person to clean up after. I built this house for FIVE years - living, as I said, in my office w/ my sons for 4 of those years til the fire - then it was in 4 different places, so I've not only roughed it, I've EARNED this place and I won't allow it to be taken over by bugs!

Until you've walked in MY shoes, I suppose we really should agree to disagree, and agree that no one has the right to judge another.

You've struck up an interest in me so I began trying to find other responses from you and I see that we are two very different people. You have your theories, and not walking in your shoes, I wouldn't begin to criticize, but I can disagree w/ your theory on divorce. There are plenty of reasons marriages fail and it not always healthy to stay together no matter what. People are physically and emotionally abusive - things we can all do w/o, esp. if kids are involved. I take my vows very seriously, something my Dh's ex-wife did not. My neighbor's husband had an affair and she left him. They worked it out and we've all gone on as if it never happened. My only advice to her was not to let her daughter know what her dad did and also not to take anything she wouldn't want her daughter taking from a future husband. My DH's ex cheated for years - while he was working full time, she was having an affair, buying this man groceries and giving him money. When they saw a counselor, she announced, "I hate my husband - what else do you want me to say?" Sorry, but I don't blame him for leaving. Nearly 2 yrs. later, he and I date, the bf dumps the ex and the kids are told they could have worked it out were it not for me? Nah, I don't buy it. Then fast forward another couple of years and she finds religion and finally levels w/ the kids and everyone supposed to be OK w/ what transpired. Well, I've never said much about all that, but I feel like I got a lousy deal somewhere here. My steps were told (the ex and I had a mutual friend who finally told the woman to stop what she was doing) to get what they could from their dad and me and that is one piece of advice they listened to...I do think this SD would like us to separate as she is very possessive of him.

Dana

Thanks for giving me the support I hoped to get here. Sheesh, I am not a wicked stepmonster!

I know you're both right on the money. If this is permanent, then I need to talk and lay down my rules - like not being disrespectful!

Anyway, I may have to rock that boat...Lord help me!

Thank you both,
Dana

First, a hard question -- Does your DH even WANT her to move out? And if so, is it just to placate you? Sounds to me like maybe he doesn't even want her to leave.

From what you've written, it sounds pretty clear that your DH won't stand up to his daughter if he thinks things might get ugly, and it's a safe bet that a 'move out' discussion would get ugly with the girl you've described. So he's unlikely to do it. For darned sure, he's unlikely to do it on your timetable. And all of the encouraging, cajolling, bargaining, persuasion, nagging, yelling, screaming, whatever -- you do isn't going to work until it gets more uncomfortable for him to deal with you than it is for him to deal with her. Doesn't sound pleasant, does it?

Now I hate conflict just as much as the next person. Probably more. Really -- I hate it. And I avoid it whenever possible. But, when necessary, I can turn off my emotions long enough to get the job done, and I'm suggesting that you do the same. Yes - she will hate you. (Anything new about that?) But she'll probably still 'get over it' enough to fake being nice by the time fall rolls around and she wants to borrow your convertible again.

Really, you've only got three choices:

1 - Put up and shut up. (Pray for patience)
2 - Try to improve things. (You've tried that)
3 - or Bite the bullet and ask her to leave yourself.

I do not believe I am attacking anyone. I really do not understand how having older children at home is "disruptive." I can understand how it might be annoying for you, but not how it can be a bad thing for the children.

Obviously having children at all is disruptive to your routine, but I am sure you wouldn't wish your children away just so your life would be calmer.

I would suggest that the child remind his sister that she promised to get him something. My kids didn't always follow through on their promises as quickly as they could have, but I am sure my younger kids would not have hesitated to remind their siblings - repeatedly if necessary.

I do enjoy the companionship of my adult children (BTW, I thought I had made it clear earlier that all my kids are biological), but I also enjoy watching them interact with my younger kids.

If my older kids said something that I thought was out of line, I would certainly say something - and they would probably argue with me about it. If I said or did something of which they didn't approve, they would say something - and I would probably argue with them about it.

BTW, I can not agree that we (as in everyone, not just the posters on this board) should not judge each other - people judge each other all the time - every time we decide that there is a right and wrong. Would you really hesitate to judge a pedophile or a mass murderer, to use an extreme example?

You made my point - your kids are biological, so, of course, you feel it is your place to correct them if they're being disrespectful. There would be a HUGE comfort zone in this house if I was able to discipline this woman. I am not - and like most stepmoms, have been reminded on occasion that I am NOT her mother. Well, then, my point is that maybe she should be living off of her mother. They'd have that boundary problem all worked out and the woman lives alone. So, why not?

Do you have stepkids? I assume not in that all of yours are bio kids. Then, is there a stepmother in your children's lives? I guess so or you wouldn't be here? Have your kids ever lived w/ their stepmother? How would you feel?

Sorry, but this woman is disruptive to my kids. Anyone's presence at bedtime is so it isn't just her. We actually had a nice evening together, talking about a few TV shows, playing w/ the kids, etc. It's the inconsistencies that I can't stand - never know which side of her will appear each evening. I just don't need it. BTW, it's after 10pm and I just got done cleaning the kitchen. She ate, went for a walk along the beach, then was in the exercise room working out. I've just been working. Haven't showered yet or anything...again. Since she's enjoying the fruits of MY labor, you'd think she'd pitch in a little. If she were my kid, I'd yell, "Hey, give me a hand before your little stroll along the beach!" But, I'm not assertive and really do not try to offend anyone, esp. my DH's family.

Please, do answer about the stepmom in your kids' lives.

Dana

I do not "discipline" my adult children. I sometimes disagree with them, or argue with them, or criticize something they have done (or not done), but they are adults.

I do not have stepchildren, because I have not remarried, and do not plan ever to do so. My ex-husband remarried. I would not call her a stepmother because, for one thing, she has almost no contact with most of my children because she rarely allows their father to exercise visitation.

Can you explain how her very presence is disruptive at bedtime? What is she doing that could possibly interfere with getting them ready for bed - with 6 bathrooms (yes, I am having trouble imagining a house with 6 bathrooms - I have never even seen such a thing), there should be no competition for bathrooms.

"Can you explain how her very presence is disruptive at bedtime"
.... This one is easy to answer and I don't live in vistas house

Ok its bedtime... in storms the older child with her stories of her day but ignoring you only talking to daddy, making as much noise as she possibly can, just to get some attention. Dropping her bags from her busy day of shopping on daddys dollar. Rummaging through the fridge to see if there is anything she can eat. (yells) What was for dinner?...Off to shower. Turning on the radio (can't shower without it). Screaming who was in my room. Who touched my stuff. Phone starts ringing no regard for language or conversation. Continues as if she is alone in the house.

Will you stop I am trying to put the kids to sleep!!

BD...oh mom blah blah blah, you always stick up for the little ones.

SD ... Daddy she hates me she always yells at me and the little brats get away with everything. always touching my stuff.

Sound familiar?

The difference is another adult who they "tattle" too. To get their feelings justified and the BP still feeling guilty over divorce, coddles disrepectful behavior.

I guess Cawfe is a fly on my wall....you can't honestly tell me you don't see that scenario? Yes, in she comes, yapping on her cell phone, putting on the TV I just turned off, clanging around in the kitchen. It doesn't take much, w/ three kids under 7, who don't want to go to bed anyway, to get them all worked up, running around, and avoiding their bedrooms!

BTW, I will NOT have my 7 y.o. ask his sister AGAIN about the promised trip to the toy store. He brought it up at least twice, she gave an excuse as to why she couldn't go w/ him (once she was going to the beach, the other to the mall w/ her friend) and I will not have him hear yet another excuse when it's apparent that she has no intentions of following through. Tomorrow will be ONE MONTH ago that his birthday passed. Surely she has the chance to get around to this in four full weeks.

Since you have no stepkids and your children have little or no contact w/ their stepmother, I'm wondering what your angle is on this forum? I'm being honest, not trying to be rude. Maybe I have it wrong, but I thought these forums were safe places in which to vent about the slights we feel we've endured by our stepfamilies and to support one another in this journey of being stepparents. It's very sad, and I can imagine you aren't happy about it, that your ex and his wife do not engage your children. Perhaps things will improve as time goes on.

As for judging one another, well, I hope there aren't any murderers or pedophiles here. Obviously, outright lawbreakers seal their fate when they disregard the law and are thereby already judged by now being labeled as such. But, I would not want to judge another board member until I've walked in her shoes. There are stepkids who maybe bitter - perhaps they have good reason to be so. Maybe their stepmother is bitter because of some earlier treatment by the stepkids. I don't know and being the way the world is today w/ all this technology, people reveal what they want to reveal, so I won't judge another as I haven't walked in their shoes or heard the other side of the story. Disagreeing and judging and two entirely different things. I believe, as I've said a couple of times now, that you and I ought to agree to disagree. I'm not judging you and if you're judging me, well, there's nothing I can do about it. I don't want to cite instance after instance to make my point and I walk away here feeling as though I should give more examples of the wrongs that have been done to me. It makes me irritated and I'm here for support and coping mechanisms. I see my SD's point and my DH's. But, I'm uneasy. I shouldn't be. I've gone above and beyond what was asked of me (3-4 m of her living w/ us) and I don't want to live like this forever. I love my house and worked darn hard for it. I don't like the feeling I have when I walk in the door or when she walks in the door. Sorry you can't fathom my house. Yes, it is large and I did pay my dues. It's large w/ high ceilings that echo. Her voice echoes throughout it. The bottom line is I'M UNCOMFORTABLE. You've made your point that you don't think I should be. Well, I am. Sorry you can't believe that. I want to end this living arrangement being friends, not bitter enemies and if I share a house much longer, I fear it will not end on good terms. I'm being honest. Rather than be critical of the way I feel and discount the disruption to my kids, just refrain from posting to me. As I said, I'm looking for ways to cope, communicate and for support. PERIOD.

Have a nice day,
Dana

Hi there and thank you for your perspective. I just asked my husband (as I left them to work out together last night while I cleaned up the kitchen) if they spoke. They did not. So, I said, "Do you even want her to move out?" He said that he did think it would be best for everyone, but admitted that he has a problem discussing this as he fears it will be perceived as him kicking her out. I can totally understand that and I'm sure I'd feel the same way. So, I don't really know how to handle this. I guess I can put up and shut up, lol, or ask her again to devise a plan.

DH said that he didn't buy what the psych. said about our oldest son's focus issues being related to our housing situation (not just this, but the multiple moves we had after our fire 2 yr. ago) so maybe I should take him to see the psych. himself? Or, maybe a family therapist could give us some coping/communication skills? I really don't know what to do.

Dana

Dana,
perhaps I haven't read your other posts well enough but I would like to know. For how long have you been a stepmom to his girl?

I also understand where you are coming from when you say

"DH fears it will be perceived as him kicking her out. I can totally understand that and I'm sure I'd feel the same way"!

I agree with you when you say I ''would feel the same way "" but are you really, really sure you would feel the same way. Perhaps, but one thing I do know is that as a woman, the mother, the wife, etc .etc. you would do anything in this world to make sure your husband is happy and if it meant having to ask your daughter to leave the home YOU WOULD!

However, when it comes to the man/father to tell their child hey it would be a good idea if you left and got a place on your own....OH MY GOD he thinks he will be going to hell and he will never be forgiven by her. So, this being said......please please please from experience, you take charge here and you sit with his daughter and you tell her how her living there is really affecting everything in your home.

Ok perhaps it will be too hard for you to do that, but you know what, if you don't do it, you are going to go crazy. At one point, you feel have serious resentment towards her and your DH and it will seriously affect everything else in your life. Do it for yourself if not for the children! Tell your husband you are going to do it and if he tells you not to do it, then ''disengage'' from her entirely! Otherwise your health will be affected and you will start hating her!

God I can't believe these young girls. They seriously think they are entitled to everything.

Good luck and keep posting.

Thanks for your input. I have two other posts here on this subject from the second 1/2 of April.

I have been married to her father for 10 yrs. As I wrote in other posts, her mother told her and her brother and sister that I was basically a homewrecker, so naturally, they hated me. Years later, she told them the truth (she found religion.) She had been having affair, hated their father, etc. I only was in the picture a few days prior to the ink being dry on the divorce papers. I had worked for/with him and got along well w/ the kids before dating him. I was seriously involved w/ another until I began seeing my husband. Regardless, I went into this marriage way too naive. His kids haven't treated me well, even after learning the truth, though things are better than before.

Honestly, it would be very hard for me to bring up the subject to her unless I was angry. On Good Friday, I had had enough - had been told she needed through March or April to get on her feet, had her barge into my room after a horrible week (health issues, hospitalizations for me) and I did confront her. But, it was also because I have a rental house that will be avlb. in June and her dad told me (lie - buying time) she and a friend were looking for a place. My rental is a 2/2, steps from the beach and affordable for two at $1800/mo. for S. FL.

I really think DH and I both need someone to guide us in a dialogue that won't be offensive to her. I'm a little angry that after the blow up, she moved out in the middle of the night to a friend's house (who lives w/ her parents...) I felt badly about it, despite the horrible way she treated me that evening, and w/ it being Easter and such, I phoned her to say that this was not how I wanted it to end. She said, "Oh, me either - I'll be right home!" Well, that wasn't my intention, either, but I'm such a wimp!

Anyway, w/ her mother living in town alone, I think it makes more sense for THEM to live together. I've housed her, her brother (lived w/ us for a few years), and her sister at one point or another. They are sloppy and disrespectful, short-tempered w/ my sons, etc. It's just getting to be too much. She has tried to improve somewhat, but in my opinion, I'm not going to be truly at ease until she is gone. I've also housed her friends, visitors, etc. for days and weeks on end. W/ three little boys I'm trying to keep on a schedule, it's just too much.

Anyway, thanks for speaking the truth. I know what I have to do, I just can't do it! I agree, though, that resentment will creep in - more than it is already - and time will only make it worse. My friend joked for me to just start annoying her so she'll want to leave - go around scantily clad, stop cooking and cleaning, etc. But, w/ a family of my own, I can't really do that! I'm just so ill at ease and have to wrestle w/ the kids at mealtime and bedtime if she's home. She's bothered by the boys on weekends, so started sleeping at her friend's house (w/ her parents) and that makes me uneasy. I've really tried to keep the boys quiet on weekends, but they're young and it is THEIR house!

Dana

"I don't have DH's support in actions, only in words"

but words don't make any difference.

Action is the only thing that will make a difference.

At this point, I think I'd be so exasperated & fed up (I'm exasperated & fed up on your behalf, & I'm not even there!) that I'd let hubs know that he needs to move on this if he's gonna, because at whatever time on whatever day, I'm going to tell her to go by whatever time on whatever day, & if she doesn't do it, I'm putting her stuff at the curb & changing the locks, & that I'm disgusted with him for forcing me to do his duty.

I wish you the best.

I wish I had your backbone - wonder if Cawfe can tell me where to buy one!

I do not like to think of myself as kicking anyone out. But, I do think I'm a victim of deceipt and so much more. I guess I'll try seducing my DH on the family room couch in front of her???? That's a huge joke as you can imagine how our love life is doing, not that I'd do that anyway.

I think I should make an appt. w/ a therapist to give us some dialogue. But, the SD must know this isn't what I thought after the Good Friday blow out, so she's just milking the situation or something.

After Dh spoke to her about a plan and she said that she needed 3-6 months MORE, I said that 4 months is about it - let her know that I don't want to get into another school year and have her moving out after it's started. I want the boys settled and not have any commotion. They need to feel secure and not having anyone coming and going as they please, and I'd prefer they are told she has her own place and is leaving ahead of time.

Anyway, I am very exasperated, but also so unassertive unless I'm just snapping and at the end of my rope. I was getting there again yesterday, but we had a decent dinner conversation and played some baseball w/ the boys. I just never know which of her personalities will walk through the door.

Dana

cawfecup,

No, it doesn't actually sound familiar. Unless the Dixie Chicks were playing live in the living room, my little ones would fall asleep, because, growing up in a large household, they are used to noise and commotion. That's the way it is in a large family. If it were too loud, I probably wouldn't have to say anything because my younger ones would tell the older ones to be quieter in no uncertain terms. And no one enters the shower without asking everyone else if they need the bathroom first. My older kids have not gone shopping on "daddy's dime" or on mine since they first started babysitting at 11 or 12; even my little one buys some of her own clothes.

"Anyway, I am very exasperated, but also so unassertive unless I'm just snapping and at the end of my rope."

This is something YOU can work on -- And it will help you in sooooo many ways. Imagine what you would say to her if you were not afraid. Not if you were flaming mad -- just if you were kindly but firmly laying it on the line. Rehearse this conversation in your head for a few days and fine tune. You still don't absolutely have to say it, but who knows? It just might come out.

Dana, Please read over and over again sweebys response. It is some of the best advice you will ever get! If you have to, rehearse in the bathroom mirror before you talk to her. The best of luck to you.

Oh Dana, I feel for you too. Imagine how harmonious your home would be without this whirlwind of a girl.

Say to yourself :I am the adult, she is the child.

Forumulate a plan as to what you think is reasonable for her to do...that is, where she should live, and when she should go.

Tell your DH that that is what you are going to say to her.

Then make it happen.

You can do it.

Make sure you are in a good frame of mind for tackling this conversation, calm, focused.

Your boys out of the way, perhaps just you and her in the house.

Stay calm, not raised voice, stick to the facts, make statements, "this is what will happen."

Its said its out on the table, it will happen.

You don't have to come off as the evil person, because you are doing what is right for your family.

You know this would be tough for most people to do, but the people with backbone, do it, and then its easier to stand up for yourself next time.

Good luck to you.

Popi

No, it doesn't actually sound familiar. Unless the Dixie Chicks were playing live in the living room, my little ones would fall asleep, because, growing up in a large household, they are used to noise and commotion.YOUR CHILDREN ALL GREW UP TOGETHER THIS ONE WALKED IN THE DOOR A FEW MONTHS AGO LIKE SHE OWNS THE PLACE.

That's the way it is in a large family. If it were too loud, I probably wouldn't have to say anything because my younger ones would tell the older ones to be quieter in no uncertain terms.YOUR CHILDREN ALL GREW UP TOGETHER THIS ONE WALKED IN THE DOOR A FEW MONTHS AGO LIKE SHE OWNS THE PLACE.

And no one enters the shower without asking everyone else if they need the bathroom first. THATS AN EXAMPLE OF RESPECT FOR THE OTHERS IN THE HOUSE THIS 24 YR OLD CHILD DOESN'T SHOW FOR ANYONE

My older kids have not gone shopping on "daddy's dime" or on mine since they first started babysitting at 11 or 12; even my little one buys some of her own clothes. KIDS ARE BETTER OFF NOT BEING ENTITLED TO ANYTHING THEY HAVE MORE RESPECT FOR THEMSELVES AND OTHERS IF THEY EARN IT ON THEIR OWN.

She didn't just pop out of nowhere - she has been her father's child for 24 years, and Dana knew that he had children when she married him. I am sure it is difficult living with someone who is not your child, but, except in rare instances, every stepparent knows going in that there are stepchildren. Would you marry someone from a close family if you hated their parents, their twin brother, and all their aunts and uncles? If you did, you would be setting yourself up for a miserable existence. Unless you are extremely fond of your stepchildren, and prepared for all the issues that arise as children grow, I believe it is extremely unwise to enter into a stepfamily situation.

The asking before you take a shower thing has little to do with respect and more to do with not wanting everyone to jump down your throat.

Kids are entitled to lots of things - love, food, shelter, education, etc. Of course it is good to learn to manage money you have earned yourself as well.

If the bitter ex-wife hadn't poisoned the childrens minds about vista maybe it would be a different story....

No she didn't pop out of now where ... but no one ever taught this child to have some self respect too worried about hurting her feelings than to help her become an adult with some sort of values. Her parents failed her not the SM.

Jump ahead 10 years ... time for children to grow up and adults to step up and take responsibility for their own actions.

She is 24 ... how long must she continue to be supported by daddy... 5 years 10 years ... how long would you support your own grown children... until you said grow up get a job and time to move out on your own ... be an adult. What age?? 30 35

At 24 I had two kids paying my own bills with out the support of daddy or mommy.

Dana,

I have not had a chance to read all of the posts on this thread yet.

It sounds like the bottom line is that your husband is not going to put his foot down with his daughter ever. Your only option is to take action. You are being far too nice for your own good and you should not continue to feel uncomfortable in your own home. Once again, I am going to say, quit bending over backward for her. If your children are loud in the morning you need to say oh well. If she had children in your home and you were trying to sleep, I doubt that she would shush them. I'm telling you, as a stepdaughter, that she is feeling way too entitled. Why would she ever leave? She doesn't have to pay for anything, she gets to live on the beach, she has home-cooked meals every evening if she wants them. She has no accountability. She feels perfectly comfortable in your home, meanwhile you are walking on eggshells.

I can't believe that I'm about to say this, but you need to take a lesson or 2 from my SM. I guarantee she would NEVER EVER have a problem with me living in her home. I never would, I don't care how bad the circumstances are.

It's clear that your husband is not going to stand up for you. It is time to stick up for yourself and if you are seen as a witch, so be it. They already made it clear to your patient that they don't like you after all of the bending over backward you have done. You may as well give her a reason not to like you.

I'm not sure why you're still posting to me when it's obvious that your situation is/was much different and agreeable to all involved. And, since there isn't an actual "step" relationship that exists for you as the SM is out of the picture, it probably is hard to relate.

Here's the whole story - worked w/ DH a couple of years, got along w/ this DD, helped her in tennis (I played through college on a scholarship) but saw that she wasn't a worker at it and had visions of playing at the next level. Tried to tell her that practice in this sport needed to be daily, not weekly if she really wanted to play in college. Then, the ex and DH split up due to her affair w/ this DDs tennis coach. As I said, she bought his groceries (DH found her unloading them once at his apt!), gave him $, displaced DH as the father - took this man w/ her and the kids to the movies, etc.

Fast forward - my engagement to my fiance from residency broke up - he wanted me to move to central FL, I was caring for my Dear Nephews 7 days/week who hadn't been dealt a fair hand in the parenting dept. I was living at my parent's home, paying all their bills and cleaning the house entirely weekly. DH and I loved sports - began taking my DNephews to games, etc. We fell in love - I didn't see it coming as he was 19 yrs. older and I'd never dated anyone that much older. Our first kiss was months later, 5 days before his divorce was final. The ex's bf dumped her and she was very bitter learning that he and I were seeing one another. She trashed my name to patients, neighbors, etc. We had a mutual friend who worked for us and this woman tried to get our rec't to give her all the addresses of all patients so she could spread her venom even more. The rec't quit under the stress of being friendly w/ all sides, severing ties w/ the ex, but leaving us high and dry after she worked for my DH for 17 yrs. It hurt the practice.

During the time we dated (1 1/2 yrs), my steps were nowhere to be seen. In fact, I didn't see them at all while dating DH. They didn't come to the office and I didn't go to his place on his weekends (felt they needed time to reestablish a relationship w/o the gf around), and his ex tried like heck to NOT have them see him - coming up w/ any excuse to not allow his EOW visits to occur. She would often just have the DD play tournaments on her weekends w/ her dad, so they'd often be busy there, sometimes out of town at them. The kids were completely lost to him. We married when they were 12, 14, 16.

The DDs said they wanted to go to the wedding, so I took them shopping for dresses. I thought they had changed their hearts back to where they were before I dated their dad, but when we got in the middle of the mall, they screamed that they HATED me and to get out of their lives. It was a terrible scene. I was embarrassed, hurt, you name it. My SS attended the wedding, the girls did not.

After the honeymoon, the ex cried that she was being evicted from her place - which was one room w/ her and these three kids. (DH paid handsomely and she skimped on EVERYTHING for these kids - the double dipping was sickening! The kids would come over w/ the clothes on their backs, and in one instance, w/ no shoes. Come on!)

I immediately offered the rental I have (that I now have offered SD) or to allow us to house the kids while she found a place. Not willing to give up CS, that was opposed. I said that I wasn't worried about CS, just trying to help out. She moved the kids over and over and must have a small fortune stashed by now...never into the home I rent out.

Anyway, on weekends, this SD usually had tennis - the ex would have her in tournaments on "our" visitation weekends that were out of town. DH would take her. Sometimes I'd have the other kids, sometimes she'd keep them. My weekends were filled w/ awkwardness. The kids did not respect me, I tried like heck to please them - made whatever they wanted, movies, amusement parks, etc. If I had them, they ALWAYS brought a friend to spend the weekend w/ us, so very little alone time was spent w/ me as the "buffer" friends were there and I didn't know what to do.

If this SD and her sister were w/ us, the room was left in squalid conditions. Often, the beds would be moved so that I couldn't enter the room. I'd have to enter an adjacent bedroom, go through the connecting bathroom, then into their room. Sheets, comforters, wet towels would be all over the place. There were many other disgusting things that I'll spare you of related to their monthly cycles...

Anyway, I'd complain to DH, he'd say nothing, and things didn't improve. By the time they came back, a gentle, "Please try to leave the room the way you find it, girls..." would follow. I was too unassertive to speak up.

Then, a couple of years later, college followed - we paid, naturally, and they began to crash in on us each break, despite their mother now having a house and living alone. From never wanting to be around us, suddenly it was us they always with. They knew who buttered their bread. In they'd crash w/ a bunch of friends. Not one of them EVER made a bed, which is one of my few pet peeves - I have things cluttered up, but the beds are always made before we leave the house.

By then, I had the boys, still worked, lived in our office bldg in cramped conditions, 2 bathrooms - showers only, etc. It wasn't comfortable for DH, me, his 3 kids, our 2-3 sons depending on the year, their friends, etc.

The stepson, who had made fun of our old house (prior to its demo and this new one being built) HATED living in an office "basement" (ground floor of a 2 story bldg) and complained to anyone and everyone. Still, I tried to please him. I GAVE him my loaded Ford Explorer and he called it a piece of junk. It was no such thing - was very nice, 2 y. old. He was supposed to work for us, showed up twice in a summer in exchange for a car he felt was suitable. What did DH do? Bought him a LEXUS that we could not afford. Suddenly, DH was able to get financing (everything else is in my name as he has bad credit). The car didn't have xenon lights so the creep yelled, "I'd rather have a Honda Civic w/ xenon lights that this w/o them!" GRRRR - and I have a Honda and it's a GREAT car! DH and I fought. Later, the SAME situation occurred w/ the girls. They have a huge sense of entitlement. I realize DH's parenting caused a lot of this, but their mother told them over and over to basically try to take us to the cleaners and they have!

DH married their mom as she was pg - said she was on the pill....They had broken up when she turned up pg. He stepped up, then a few years later, she stepped out, poisoned the kids, later tried to prevent me from having a relationship w/ them which worked for a long time. Then, suddenly, it could cost her to keep them from us. So, she and they all saw that Daddy would buy more toys - and so the story goes.

Please, don't act like I haven't tried or didn't know this man had kids. They've made it clear how they feel and also that if they want anything, it wouldn't come from their mom. DH w/ the guilt or whatever, is a pleaser, and tries in the wrong ways to bond w/ these kids. I don't think it's right, but I DO understand. We all LOVE our kids, would lay down our lives for them, etc. I know he's in a tough position. However, I do not want my kids raised in the same manner and do not want any of their materialism influencing my children. I want to raise INDEPENDENT and happy, healthy men, not boys. My SD has received the benefit of the doubt so much of the time. She hasn't wanted for anything. I've mentioned that her father is stressed about our finances as we wait for some help from the ins. co due to the fire in '05, that he is stressed w/ time, still she forks over her bills and her errands, not handling anything. It's just making me sick.

Sadly, these children have a huge sense of entitlement and are greedy people. The YSD never spoke to me, but after her mother found religion handed me a Christmas list and said, "My mother is baking a birthday cake for Jesus. She doesn't believe in the commercialism of Christmas, so I guess I'll have to give you this." I was dumbfounded, but off I went, buying everything on the list. It was ALL returned, and has been ever since. See, I still TRY, feel like there could be a window for a real relationship to form, but I'm always disappointed. Now, I have my own kids' well-being to be concerned w/. After the b-day, shopping trip that never happened to my oldest last month, I see a pattern and I won't have my own kids feeling disappointed like I have over the years. Guess I even tried to placate them materialistically - basically in any way I could. I've never had this situation. Don't you see, TOS, it's all about "her."

For me being as close to my mother as I am, I'd rather stay w/ her in a hut w/o A/C, 'cause I love her, than w/ anyone else in a palace. I don't think these kids understand love. They all but dumped their mom when they began wanting things she wouldn't provide. What kind of love it that? And, now, living w/ me and DH and our three sons while her mother lives alone? Just doesn't make sense. I think when their mother found religion, they found Daddy again as mom started tithing to her church and not to them...maybe they see their mom's lies and severed some ties because of that, but regardless, these kids don't care for me. I allowed myself to be treated like a doormat, trying to be accepted, liked, etc. That's my mistake, but I'll be darned if it will continue or extend to my kids. This morning, she was yelling because my younger two woke her up 10min. before her alarm would go off and she needed that sleep (did her own laundry last night, hooray, but didn't like it apparently!) It's the youngest one's 3rd b-day and they were excited. I was making everyone breakfast, got a dirty look for not keeping them quieter, but I smiled, "Good morning!" She mumbled something back and that was that...agree to disagree yet?

You ladies are right and I have been feeling like some dialogue practice is the key. I was hoping it would be for DH's benefit and not for little 'ole me....but, I suppose NOTHING will happen (except maybe another ulcer attack?) if I don't take control of the situation.

My marriage isn't great at the moment. Lots of money issues, we're overextended, waiting on ins. $ from our 4/05 fire, etc. I hate to have it blow up in my face worse and don't want DH resenting me for his DD moving out or throwing another tantrum. I'm really searching for a way to please all sides. Even though I know she isn't fond of me (though sometimes I think there's a chance!), I don't want her feeling like she's being kicked out. Every now and then, I do think she's grown fond of me in spite of herself. I'm usually quickly brought back to reality, but I do hope there's a time when we are truly at ease w/ one another and friends.

I am hoping DH will give me a Mother's Day gift of a meeting w/ the three of us to get on the same page. As angry as I sound here - bitter, no less, I really don't want to hurt anyone. I just want to start living my life, on my terms...

I thank you and will start working on my script...

Dana

Honey, it means a lot for me to have your vote of confidence. See, I really DON'T want to kick her out - just wish she'd WANT to leave. My mother said that soon she will....I said, "Why? She doesn't pay a thing, has no responsibilities, no accountability, has a gorgeous new house steps from the ocean. I'd want to be adopted here, too!"

Still, my mother and I feel badly that she wanted to come here and not w/ her mother. Now, part of me feels like it's her manipulation and that she knows her mother wouldn't allow any mooching. Other times, we think her mother hasn't been the best mother, and since my mom and I are so close, not having that closeness is sad to us. Then, we pity her and wonder if there's a chance she'd want some closeness w/ me in her mom's place.

I don't know a thing about most here, but I do feel badly that your SM is no gem. You sound like a sweet young lady w/ a level head. I always see these stepmonsters around who mistreat their steps and I just don't get it. Then, I see these stepkids who try to take advantage of the situations and I don't get that, either. Then, I see these bioparents who are stuck in the middle and afraid to tell all sides to grow up! I really do see everyone's point of view, and even in my case, I understand DH's position, understand my SD's position, too. If my parents told me that I couldn't stay w/ them after graduation, I'd have been very hurt. I couldn't wait to get back home after so many years of college, prof. school, and residency. My friends were all rolling their eyes, "Oh, I HAVE to live at home and we're going to hate each other....rules, crap, and so on and so on..." I never felt that way. My parents are my best friends and I wanted to HELP them out. I'd still have them live w/ us gladly. I took my stepson in quite naively. He took advantage. He manipulated. It wasn't pretty. I don't understand people biting the hand that feeds them....

Anyway, thanks for posting,
Dana

To train a puppy, you reward it for the desired behavior.

Puppy sits down politely, you say "goood dog!"

Puppy chews slipper, you clap your hands loudly & say "No!".
You do not give puppy your slipper & go barefoot.

You are rewarding these people for abusing you:

complaints about car=new car

nasty bedroom=stepmom cleans bedroom

"I guess I have to give you this Christmas list"=stepmom buys everything on the list

treat stepmom like dirt=stepmom tries to please.

Why would this woman move out?

She's in control,
she lives a life of comfort that you pay for,
she gets to be hateful, spiteful, & demanding,
she is rewarded for thinking of ways to be obnoxious (bet she's gleeful about that),
*& she gets to do it no matter what the consequences are to you or your children*.

I forgot to say that the reason there's been no "talk" about the "plan" is because there is no plan.

You're the only one who wants a plan, & nobody has yet experienced any consequences for ignoring your wishes.

In any case, no previous plan has been honored, so why would anyone expect this one to be?

Forget the "plan", give her a week (if she stays with her mother on week-ends, she can stay there until she finds a place of her own), & when the week is up, set her belongings on the curb & change the locks.

Sylvia,

She stays w/ her friend, who lives w/ her parents and has since graduating college 2+ years ago, on weekends.

SD's mother is out of the picture for the most part. I just don't understand why she can't house her for the next 6 months since I've housed her for what will soon be the first 6 months. After a year of mooching, I'd guess she'd have $ for a place. As I said, there aren't any student loans to pay back.

Her sister and the sister's bf are moving here in July w/ their two dogs. While I now regret offering the rental house to them, they are set to take it July 1. My tenant may be out at the end of May. DH said, "I'll talk to her about moving in w/ her sister and the bf..." If he doesn't, I will. Of course, the sister and bf may NOT want her, either, or she may feel uncomfortable. TOUGH! I'm uncomfortable now, though as I said, last night was a nice evening. I just never know which side of her will appear.

I can really see DH and I divorcing over this. He's ignoring my wishes, lying, etc. She acts like she doesn't want us to split (the issue came up w/ the Good Friday incident), but if we did, she'd have Daddy to herself.

Yes, my DH does reward lousy behavior. I can say that I've at least stopped doing the laundry!

Dana

My guess is that living at mom's is not nearly as appealing as living at Dana's. Dana lives on the beach, she cooks and cleans and takes care of everything. Dana doesn't say anything when SD comes home and is loud or when SD doesn't clean up after herself, in fact, Dana is a great maid and cook. I doubt if SD would be treated so well in her mother's house. Even if she LIKES her mother, I doubt she has it so good over there, so why wouldn't she choose to live at Dana's?

Honestly, Dana, I'm pretty self-sufficient and I don't have parents who can afford the luxuries that you and your husband have provided to your children and to his children. I just can't see any sane person moving out of your home when they have such a luxurious, effort-free life.

It's unfortunate that your husband doesn't have a backbone, it's also unfortunate that this is causing so many problems in your marriage.

I can tell you are very non-confrontational...have you really expressed to your husband in a calm way (not the blow up at Easter) how this is effecting you and how you feel as if you are being treated like a doormat? Have you told him all that you have told us about how you feel about the living situation?

It's obvious to me that you have gone above and beyond the call of duty when it comes to trying to make nice and be friends with his children. I wish all stepmothers could be more like you and some of the other women in this forum. If your husband won't stand up for you, then you HAVE to stand up for yourself.

Can I pencil you for a visit this summer, lol? I make a great Dutch Baby for breakfast, and I wake up 1/2 hour early to do it, so it will be hot and ready when you stroll to the kitchen!

Gladly, because SD gained 10 lbs. since moving in, I haven't been "required" to make her breakfast, too, lately...

I have told my DH how I feel. I've tried every approach, which is why I suggested a therapist to help us w/ a dialogue that makes sense and hopefully won't be perceived as offensive to anyone. He's still not signing up, but insists he's going to tell her that he thinks it would be nice if she moves in w/ her sister. Honestly, if I just know there's an end in sight, I'll be fine. I really don't want to enter the new school year w/ her here. I'd love to have the house to myself this summer, but I can cope if I know there's a move out date! I'd love to wear a 2 piece bathing suit in my own backyard. I don't because I'm self-conscious about my abdomen (I'm tall, slender for the most part, but 3 kids in 4 years takes a toll on the abs!) Anyway, that's the least of my worries.

We have afforded my steps luxuries and we've never been rolling in money. We're way overextended and the fire has nearly killed us. I'm trying to get a loan to pay the prop. taxes on the rental house and our office. Not sure where to turn if it falls through...

Thanks again - see you in July? Hopefully her room will be EMPTY by then.

Dana

Actually, I was posting to cawfecup.

My ex-husband's wife is, unfortunately, not out of the picture just because she doesn't allow my kids to visit their father. As I discussed in another thread, she is directly responsible for my not being able to obtain financial aid for my daughter's schooling and she interferes with any discussion I have with my ex-husband regarding the children's educational or medical issues - interfering to the point of talking to him constantly if he is on the phone with me, to his obvious irritation.

Dana,

That sounds lovely! I'll see you in July! ;)

I'll adopt you as my serogate SM and you can adopt me as your serogate SD and we can pawn our steps off on each other. They think they've got it rough now...wait 'till they find out what one another can dish out! Ha Ha.