How old is he?

Has any of his teachers said anything about testing for a learning disability? I hate that term, but that is what is used.

he is 10 (well 11 in two weeks) and he does have ADHD but this is well beyond that... This is just sheer laziness lately... simply not doing anything at all.

Those were also my questions; How old is he? & not necessarily a learning disabilty as he seems pretty smart to me! But some type of psych eval/counseing would seem in order for his behavior issues. No way in heck would I be paying for football/field trips with this stuff going on, those things are priviledges not rights just like driving.

If your DH wants to so be it as long as HE is the one that deals with the fall out. If kiddo doesn't learn to be responsible and do his work now, trust me it will be so much worse later. If he continues to get rewarded for this negative behavior then he has no reason to change.

I would have your DH call his mother and see if she is having the same problems with him on her time so you are all on the same page.

Please update and let us know what happens.

Good luck to you,
CL.

You did say 'resource teachers' and if that means there the same thing it means here, then this child is already in special ed., and probably had been diagnosed with learning disabilities. And now 'attitude disabilities'... How old is he? And what grade?

How realistic is it for you, Dad and Mom to all get onto the same page with him in terms of expectations and consequences? And are all of you in regular contact with the teachers? Because you seem to know very clearly the value of an empty threat, and that seems to be happening. He either doesn't mind the consequences as much as he hates the work, or he doesn't expect you'll carry through, or perhaps, he's just so used to failing that he just doesn't care anymore...

While I do agree with your point about taking away so much that he has nothing to strive for, it's also important that he complete his assignments and not develop the habit of ignoring them. Are his assignments too difficult for him? Is he capable of doing them? If you either sat down beside him or had him work say, in the kitchen, while you were cooking dinner -- Is that a viable strategy?

What has been very effective for my som (12, significant LDs, concentration issues) is to have a reward planned that he can claim immediately after finishing his work, or that will be carried over to the next day if he doesn't finish by a certain time. For example: "Once you've finished your homework, if there's still time before dinner, we can run over to target for that new video." And try to help him reach it -- (He may not be experiencing a lot of success in school?) If he makes a good effort but doesn't reach the goal, I'll compliment the work and suggest that we plan better and start earlier the next day so we can get that video then. We've rarely had to go more than 3-4 days before he earns the target reward.

One other thing we do is that if he hasn't finished his homework by bedtime, we do it together over breakfast in the morning. Leaving it undone just isn't an option. I will sometimes edit (shorten) his assignments (and not tell him) if he's having a really hard time focusing, just so he can have that sense of having "toughed through it" and succeeded in getting it done. (His resource teacher is fully on board with that and he's made great gains, though that may not be an appropriate strategy for every kid.)

yes, we have done all of the above for getting the assingments done and it is like he has caught on to the fact that we wont allow him to just not get it done and we will sit there all night if we have to so instead he tells us he doesnt tell us about the assignement at all... Instead he will pick the easiest thing assigned and do that and say that is all he had to do... Then the next day comes around he lies to teacher... teacher calls us and we find out .. Oh he had a writing assignement to do as well... that he simply just chose not to do.. And we have been in regular communication with BM about this and she seems to be on the same page but not to the same extent... (For example when we picked him up Thursday after getting in trouble again at school he was outside playing... not really getting the point across) I was entirely for cancelling the atlanta field trip. Like I told DH would you rather lose some money now and hope he gets the lessen or continue this circle and end up with him dropping out in a couple of years because he has learned he can do what he wants and get away with it... But, he still decided to let him go and BM didnt want to lose any money either (which is kind of funny because in reality I really paid for almost the entire field trip they both chipped in some but it was moslty paid for by me... but anyways) But, I think the thing that is the most frustrating is the kid is totally aware of what he is doing... Wednesday night BM called DH to get onto ss because he was arguing with her about doing his math work and she was having a hard time with him... then Thursday after all of that drama we find out that he lied to us and then the teacher and had a writing assignement to do as well..

And yes, he has an iep and now he is on special standards and to be honest I think that is the worst thing that could have happen.. He is not dumb by any stretch of the imagination you just have to work harder to keep him on task ... so putting him on special standards to make things easier or give him less work I think is doing nothing but giving him a free pass at being lazy and his grades have done nothing but go down since then... being in special standards they should have gone up... one would think

Now we are at the end of the year with only a month left to go... who knows if he is going to pass 4th grade... But, I am at a loss... I feel like his summer is going to be spent in redoing 4th grade with me because if he fails because of this nonsense I am going to be irate and not just with him but with DH and BM as well.

And I have given him the benefit of the doubt and thought it was just to hard. I have sat with him for hours going over stuff and helping him and giving him tools to try and work things out... but (like with this writing assignment) it is stuff he has done a hundred times... he knows what he is doing he simply will not do the work. And, apparently this had become a problem in class now too... he just isnt doing not trying not anything except talking and playing and lieing about why he cant... UGHH !!

I told him if he didnt straighten up I would be sitting in his classroom everyday to make sure that he stayed on task and when his friends wanted to know why I was there I would make sure that everyone knew I was sitting in there because c doesnt know how to listen behave and do his work...

I think I have mentioned before, this is the same problem we are having with my SD.

Its not an uncommon problem in the prepuberty-early puberty years, but certainly you want to break this habit before it becomes deeply engrained and its too late to change it.

The way it was explained to us by our therapist, and also by the special ed coordinator for SD's school, these kids have a very hard time with delayed consequences. The temptation to not do it now outweighs the future consequence, because they cannot adequately fathom those consequences. Immediate gratification is more important than future punishment to these kids

What was suggested to us, and it is helping tremendously, is a variation on what Sweeby suggested above. Rewards are more important than punishment, and both rewards and punishments have to be on a day by day basis. For instance, with SD, if the work is done, then she is allowed to use her tv and computer, but if it isnt, then no tv for that night. If there is a sleepover at someones house on friday night and she wishes to go, she must have all her assignments up to date to be allowed to do so. '

We dont get mad when she doesnt get it done, and we praise her when she does, but we are adamant on holding the line about immediate consequences for that night if its not being done. Its helping, she isnt as bad as she used to be, but we still have a long way to go. The therapist says it sometimes takes a few years, all the way through puberty for kids to overcome this.

okay but with what is going on sometimes we dont find out for a couple days that the work hasnt been done.

have the consequence be the day we find out?
and
what kind of consequences suit best his age/grade level is 10/4th?
and
for us we had a meeting about the field trip tuesday by thursday he was already not doing exactly what we warned him about on tuesday. what would you do then?

I think constant communication with the teachers is going to be key here. We have an assignment book for DS, and ALL of his assignments are written into the assignment book every day. At first, it was his teachers who wrote in the assignments, but now DS writes them in and his homeroom and/or SpEd teacher verifies that they're complete. I know your SS's teachers aren't looking for more work - but they'll probably be willing to do it since they're already experiencing the consequences of it NOT being done.

Is SS in any real danger of not passing 4th grade? Because I imagine that could be some significant leaverage. Or having to go to summer school or tutoring to make up the lost time? One particularly effective technique with my son when he's not concentrating in tutoring is for me to simply tell him "Well, if we can't finish the work here, we'll just have to take it home with us and finish it there -- Should we do that instead?" (The key of course, is to be "kind and helpful" instead of angry, and to ABSOLUTELY follow through and do it.)

The other tactic that works well is to say "Well - You can sit here all evening and NOT get your work done and then you'll lose privileges at home and get in trouble at school. Or you can focus for 30 minutes and knock out the work, then spend the rest of the evening playing video games and have a good day at school tomorrow. Which one sounds better to you?"

Can you set up a system where homework is written down and sent home daily by the teacher? Or, do they have an online system like my SD's where we can see every day what was assigned?

In our middle school each child receives a planner and homework is written in it daily. Perhaps you could get SS a notebook and communicate with the teacher so that she writes each days assignment in it. Then he can't pick and choose and you can hold him to a system like Kathline suggested.

In my child's school, the teachers are required to post all homework assignments online, on a special site designed for that purpose. Both parents and children, learning disabled or not, find it useful for looking up assignments - the only limitation is that it doesn't do any good if the child forgets to bring home the necessary worksheets or books. My child's IEP also specifies that the resource room teacher will verify that assignments are written down in my child's notebook - usually they have the child do so, and then the teacher checks it.

"Immediate gratification is more important than future punishment to these kids."

This is definitely true for people with executive function disorder (often associated with ADD, but also present in some people who do not have ADD). It usually gradually gets better as they mature, but maturation can take well into their twenties, especially in males. I read one article that said that some people with executive function disorder learn to cope by finding someone to "be their frontal lobe" - such as a parent, teacher, therapist, or spouse.

catlettuce,

Having a learning disability doesn't mean that the child is not smart. Many brilliant people have learning disabilities.

We've been going through this (but not to the same extent) with A__, who is 9 and also ADHD.
GM was really making everything worse (wouldn't even ask A__ if he had homework, let alone make him do it) and when BM hit her last straw with the fistfighting incidents, things started getting better. A__ is more honest about his homework, and multitude of other things are improving too.
Is there a possibility that something, somewhere, in his life is awry and this problem needs to be identified and changed before you'll see improvement? I think that for A__, since GM had no expectations of him, he didn't see why anyone would have expectations of him and tried to avoid meeting these expectations. Now he's discovered that meeting expectations, being rewarded and feeling good about it is WAY better than the other way.
Maybe something similar is happening with your SS... Maybe not...

the school doesnt have the option of putting the assignements online... but they do have an agenda book that they are supposed to write the assignments in everyday... but as the year has progressed that almost never happens now. I keep telling him to write everything down but I think he also realized along the way ... that if it is in the agenda then I will make do it so he just doesnt write it down anymore. I asked the teacher to email me his assignments on a weekly basis and she agreed but that simply has not happened. I do like the idea about putting it directly into the IEP that assignements have to be written down and checked by the teacher daily.... that way I have a way to enforce it being done with the teacher as well.

He didnt bring his homework home last night and his mother grounded him for the week. I tried to explain some of the things that were brought up here... like the immediate gratification thing but I am not sure he really understood what I was saying.

I need suggestions... I saw someone else on another thread do a truth calendar... maybe something like that would work but for school work...

Sweeby - I notice you always have your "speech" that you said your son has almost memorized and turned into a 5 min monologe... what is it?

And yes, things this year were in turmoil... their mom wanted them back (after years of living with us) and then proceeded to try and keep them from us for a while On top of the fact that they (the kids) were having a really hard time getting along with BM bf who has done some questionable things that DH did not agree with.... now things seem to have calmed down in that arena and DH has made it clear to BM that as of next school year we will be doing one week with her one week with us arrangement to keep everyone involved and to stop upsetting ss because he really wants to be living with dad not mom. And I do think that that is apart of it... but I have two trains of thought on this

1. yes, he has been having a hard time and something needs to be fixed so that he can succeed
2. yes, he has been having a hard time but there is a good chance that parents will never agree on much of anything and this drama will probably always be in the backround so we need to help him succeed despite these distractions and not let them become excuses for poor choices and behavior.

"Sweeby - I notice you always have your "speech" that you said your son has almost memorized and turned into a 5 min monologe... what is it? "

Well, it's not one speech -- It's just my standard rules and reasons for 'whatever'. I guess I must have been pretty consistent over the years, because that's what John will do. For example, when getting ready for bed, if he's running a little behind, I might ask him if he needs any help, and he'll reply "I know, I know. Brush your teeth. If I don't brush my teeth, all of my teeth will fall out and I'll have a big hole in my head." or "I know - I have to go to bed on time because if I don't, I won't get enough sleep and I'll fall asleep in school tomorrow and get in trouble. Our bodies need sleep." Now of course, I've never said quite that -- (My line was "You only have to brush the teeth you want to keep.") But he's basically just repeating the reasons why he has to do whatever it is I want him to do because those reasons have been drummed into his head.

"yes, he has been having a hard time but there is a good chance that parents will never agree on much of anything and this drama will probably always be in the backround so we need to help him succeed despite these distractions and not let them become excuses for poor choices and behavior. "

EXACTLY! For any 'blip' in SD's behavior my MIL tries to use the excuse that her mom is a wack job, her step dad a meanie and her life there unstable. Yes, that is all true, but wouldn't a better idea be to find a way to succeed in spite of it rather than give in to it? We have had custody of SD with this same visitation schedule since 1st grade. She's almost done with 7th now. MIL's attitude does nothing but teach SD that she can use her mom as an excuse or explaination for her behavior. "I'm sorry Mr. Jones, I know I was supposed to turn in my science fair project today adter having 2 months to prepare it, but I see my mom EOW and she's a bit flaky so it's not done." Ahhhhh - not gonna fly!!