Amauld,

You need to do the following:

1. Sit down and talk re money. See if he will agree to change.

2. If not, if the credit cards are in your name, immediately call CC company and get your name off. Return what can be returned.

3. Have CS and your salary go into one account. Tell him whenever he wants, the two of you can discuss payments.

I agree with most of the posters here. He is being abusive. Its hard for someone being abused to actually see it, so no one is blaming you.

But its only going to get worse with time, and someday you are going to want out.

On the off chance that he is being this abusive regarding money because of some deep seated values from his past, I would suggest that you ask him to go to counselling with you. You can make it about you, when you suggest it if you like, so that he doesnt feel threatened. Something like...I really have issues with money dear, would you please come to this counsellor with me, so that you can get an idea of how I feel, etc.

It may not work, but if he thinks its not about him, he may be willing to give it a shot, and if he isnt doing this to be deliberately controlling, it may open his eyes.

With my first husband, I had a lot of the same thing you do. I got 6 dollars a week to spend, even though we had a good living. When the kids came, that six dollars had to include anything I needed for them. I had to hand the pay over to hubby on payday and he would dole me out my six dollars. Anything I wanted to spend had to be preapproved by him. I wasnt allowed to have my own bank account, or credit. Everything went into his name alone, and he made the decisions on what was needed and what wasnt. He would think nothing of buying himself an expensive (7k) camera, but I had to wear my winter coat five years running. He would give me a set amount for groceries each week ( never enough) and I would have to give him any change, and the itemized bill so he could see if there were any purchases he didnt approve of

After 19 years of that, I couldnt take it anymore and I realized that my love for him was less about who he was, and more about my fear of being alone. I started to put my foot down. I asked him to get counselling with me. He refused, and when he did, I went alone. I finally got tough enough to leave,although it took a long time to get there.

Then I had to fight for what was my rightful share in a divorce. I didnt fight much, I just wanted it to go away, so I ended up with much less than I should have gotten, and he kept most of the stuff. But, its just stuff.

A decade later, I have a husband who absolutely adores me for who I am. He never questions anything I spend, I dont have to ask for permission for anything, financial or otherwise. When I was with my first husband, I always had to act one way around him, and another with other people. People would comment I was so different when husband wasnt there.

One of the things that hurt me the most at that time, and that bothered me terribly was when well meaning people, who could easily see what the problem was, would say, why dont you just leave him. I know , from experience, its not as easy at that.

I know why you stay and why you think you love him, but I am telling you, its only going to get worse, and you are only going to be more defeated as years go by, unless you get counselling, and preferably he gets it with you.

If you are in a community property state, then you could be held responsible for HIS debts and it sounds like he may be headed for bankruptcy. Only you know your entire situation and your own responsibility with money, but your credit could get ruined and if the marriage doesn't last, you could be stuck with bankruptcy, collections, bad credit and paying off his debts. At the very least, decisions to buy some of the things you mention should be a joint decision. What would happen if you opened up your own credit card and went on a shopping spree? Then expect him to use his money to pay for it?

How old are you? and how old are your kids? How involved are your kids with their father? One of the biggest mistake you can make is to depend on someone else financially and hand over your money blindly with trust that you will be looked after. Doing that will only make you feel trapped if you ever decide you are in over your head and want out.

Listen to Sue and I'll add my experience with my exBF. I didn't hand over my paycheck and we did have separate accounts and a couple of joint credit cards that HE used. He filed bankruptcy on all his debt and I chose not to (because we weren't married) and I ended up stuck paying those two credit cards myself. I also depended on him in a way financially. We bought a house (but only his name was on it) so when I left, I got nothing from the house. I also enjoyed and got used to the standard of living with both of our incomes and part of the reason I stayed was I didn't want my kids to suffer when I would be financially struggling on my own. I was scared that I wouldn't be able to make it on my own so I stayed in a situation that wasn't abusive, but it certainly wasn't happy or pleasant. When I finally left, I did struggle. I wish I had left much sooner than I did, but I let the fear keep me there.

When you say that you love him and don't want to lose him, it reminded me of this. I'm not very religious and I'm not preaching what this means or that it's right or wrong. I'm only sharing it because it was the first thing I thought of when you said that.

[http://academic.udayton.edu/vernelliarandall/poetry/Love.htm]

1 Corinthians 13:1-13

If I speak in the tongues of men and angels,
but have not love,
I have become sounding brass or a tinkling symbol.

And if I have prophecy and know all mysteries and all knowledge,
and if I have all faith so as to remove mountains,
but have not love, I am nothing.

And if I dole out all my goods, and
if I deliver my body that I may boast
but have not love, nothing I am profited.

Love is long suffering,
love is kind,
it is not jealous,
love does not boast,
it is not inflated.

It is not discourteous,
it is not selfish,
it is not irritable,
it does not enumerate the evil.
It does not rejoice over the wrong, but rejoices in the truth

It covers all things,
it has faith for all things,
it hopes in all things,
it endures in all things.

Love never falls in ruins;
but whether prophecies, they will be abolished; or
tongues, they will cease; or
knowledge, it will be superseded.

For we know in part and we prophecy in part.

But when the perfect comes, the imperfect will be superseded.

When I was an infant,
I spoke as an infant,
I reckoned as an infant;

when I became [an adult],
I abolished the things of the infant.

For now we see through a mirror in an enigma, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know as also I was fully known.

But now remains
faith, hope, love,

these three;

but the greatest of these is love.

nobody should buy that much stuff in one year! this is crazy. get separate accounts and talk to him about his spendings. this sounds not normal. don't let him do this to you and kids.

I really do not like the way this sounds. First and foremost he is spending way too much money and then expects you to foot the bill.
1. Have separate accounts from him
2. Make sure your CS is separate from his account. CS is for the childrens expence, food, clothes, summer camp etc..et.c.. their needs. Not his wants
3. You can be liable for his debt because of your marriage. Cover yourself and your kids first and dont let him pull you down.
My husband would get into debt in similar ways. BUT i kept separate accounts and wheni did save his butt i make sure to get bakc the money through our bills and rent. I've almost got it all back . Its tedious to live this way. I hate it but i really didn't see the bills until it was too late. He would hide them in the car or in a pile of papers and wheni started to organize and take over finances theni realized he is not so good with money and paying bills.
Well things have changed and i told him.I love ya but if you do not like this, then we divorce. I cannot live with someone irresponsible like that.
He still does not liek the fact our son has cash in his accoutn and i'm sure if it was left to him he would hav espent it by now. So i keep everything separate.
oh yah. my husband is bad with credit cards this way too!
Make sure your name is not on any credit cards and try to convince him to cut them all or keep one credit card with a very low credit limit...like 500$..something he can handle.
There are many men out there and woman who are like this. THey cannot manage their money and their eyes are bigger than their pocket books. THey do not realize at the tiem when spending..they are too exciting for getting a new toy.
Speak withyour husband and lay down some lines and for him to get it through his head that CS is not his for his personal use. Its yours for your kids. He has absolutely no right to it for his personal crap.

This guy is stealing your children's money & browbeating you.

& you're afraid you'll "lose" him.

You couldn't lose him with a stick as long as the money holds out.

Did you ever stop to think that he may have targeted you & married you *because* of your children's income & because you're so easily controlled?
& while he's treating you badly, what kinds of lives do your children have?

You're not a hormonally-intoxicated adolescent;
you're a grown woman with children.

If the children's father goes to court to reduce child support, since it isn't being used for their benefit, or if he petitions for custody, how do you think you can possibly defend what *you* have allowed to happen.

You have a choice to make.

You can keep him, for a while, or you can keep your children.

but if you choose him & you don't have the children or their money, you'll lose him anyway.

so lose him now before you lose everything.

There are two things you wrote that are especially worrisome to me:

1 - That he feels like has more 'votes' than you because he earns more money; and

2 -That you are afraid of losing him if you tighten up the purse strings and don't let him spend the child support on more toys.

I don't question your love for him, but I'm sorry - I have to question his love for you if he treats you so badly. At the very least, he is taking advantage of you financially and has put your financial security (and that of your children) at risk. You owe it to yourself and your children to put a stop to the reckless spending of money that is rightfully theirs. And if Hubby won't agree to this, then you've got worse problems to deal with.

Ima's suggestion to investigate court records is a good one. You might also want to pull your credit reports and review them carefully to see how serious things are.

This whole situation just smells fishy...

Please Please Please listen to the advice that these women have given you... it worries me to no end to here the things that you are writing here.

It is most definately time to stand up for yourself and your children.

Since you titled your thread "The Kids' Money", you *know* it's their money & you know he's doing wrong to take it.

If the children's father learns of this, he might not even have to take you back to court for reduction of CS or for custody;
he might file on you for theft by misappropriation, or he might just notify child protective services.

I can not remember where so many people had the same reaction to a situation. And for the record, while I am also a birth mother, I would not be sympathetic toward misuse of CS. That being said, I know you are in a hard place. Like I said, talk to your mother, friends, and make certain when things get worse (as I suspect they will if you put CS into a seperate bank account), you have a place to stay.

I have to agree with those that say there are a lot of red flags. If you are married, the income from salary belongs to the both of you. Whether you work or not. A marriage is a partnership and if he is treating you like a child, giving you an allowance and upset as to where you spend it...then you need to talk to him now. If you don't feel comfortable talking to him, that is a huge problem. Maybe you should start the conversation something like- I'm scared to talk to you about this because of the things you have said about it in the past, but I think the financial issues are a big problem which we have to resolve. Talk about compromise.

It sounds like, if you can't even put your kids in camp due to the bills coming in, you don't need to be taking vacations. There have to be priorities. Getting and staying out of debt should be the top of the list. Your kids child support is to support them. If your parents are not able to manage them, then they need to be in camp. Not to mention, if they don't get to go they may miss out on a great experience.

Maybe you should discuss a budget. My husband and I recently took a Dave Ramsey course at our church and it was very helpful. By the way, Dave Ramsey is a financial adviser and has a national talk show. He was very wealthy and lost all of his job and money. That can happen to anyone, even your husband. With the economy the way it is, nobody needs to be overextending- which sounds like your husband. Has he seen gas prices? Has he seen the price of food going up? Maybe you need to remind him of these things. I don't care how much you make, it is going to effect you. In addition, if he goes down because of the bad credit choices he is making, he is likely going to be taking your credit down with him. Then, if you do have to leave him, you are really in a world of hurt.

I had some issues with my now husband. One time I told him that I love him, but I don't have to be with him just because I love him. It is a choice. I said that awhile ago. To this day, every now and then, he will get scared that I may leave (usually when we are dealing with stepfamily stuff- I never threaten to leave) He will remind me of what I said. I guess I'm saying, if he won't listen, respond with compromise and letting go of some of his control, you do have the choice. Not a fun choice, but a choice. Loving someone does not mean you have to tolerate being belittled and treated like you are the child. Your choice is to stay and feel as bad as you do now (and I will bet it will get worse with time) or leave. I know it's a hard choice, but it is yours to make. My prayers are that you two can talk about the problem, he will come around and listen to his WIFE and come up with some compromises.

Be strong for your kids, but more important, be strong for you. Your opinions and input on every topic- including finances- are worth fighting for so fight to be heard. You do have the strength to do this.

Amaulden5304, I really feel for you. Please remember that we teach people how to treat us in our lives. If you cowtow to this kind of behavior from your DH you are teaching him that irrespective of all the fighting, discussion, etc. that you may put forth, that ultimately he will continue to get away with abusing the CS money meant for your kids and jeopardizing your financial future. If you back down you are just preserving the status quo. Please take the advice of the ladies on here, and know that you have to stick up for yourself, until. Until means no matter what. If you have the CS and your salary rerouted into a personal account, he may get mad, he may get ugly, but at the end of the day you have a right to do that and you must. For your self-respect and for your kids. And setting the new boundaries may not be so bad after a while - he may just adjust to the New World Order. Or not - but at least your kids and you will have what you need. I wish you luck and please keep posting! Don't hesitate to involve a financial planner, attorney, counselor if you need support.

There was one more thought I had and that was how kids watch and learn what they witness everyday. If they see him controlling you in this manner, they may believe this is how things should be. You are teaching the children with every action or inaction. Here's a question. Would you want your children to be controlling and irresponsible financially because that is how they see your husband (and how they see you allowing things to be) or would you like them to not stand up for themselves, spend irresponsibly and not be in control of their own lives. Right now, those seem to be the two role models. They may not know the details of what is happening, but I would place a bet that they can see the controlling behavior and his lack of respect for you. You decide what you want them to see and learn. By your post, I'd say you would want them to learn fiscal responsibility and the ability to speak up for themselves. If that is the case- demonstrate that to them.

There isn't much more that I can add but this:
You may love this man, but love him for what? The respect he has for you? The respect he has for your children? I certainly hope not. You love him and are afraid of losing him, but what about losing your kids? What about your kids losing respect for you as they get older and realize what mom allowed to happen with 'their' money . . . that they wore hand me downs while step dad rode about on his new motorcycle and watched his big TV? I can't tell you shouldn't love him, but I can tell you that you should love your kids more, and to love them is to protect them.

The right thing to do is generally not the easiest thing to do.

So you love him and are afraid to lose him--so much afraid you are giving him your kids' money to keep him. Doesn't that mean you are paying him to stay with you? And if you have to pay him to stay with you, it means he does not love you. And when the money runs out, or the debts get too high, he will leave you for a richer woman.

You don't have him even if you let him have your kids' money.

Here's a question: Who is richer? A man making $250,000 a year and spending $250,005? Or a man making $15,000 a year and spending $14,995?

When your children look back on the decisions you are making now, are they going to be proud of you? Are you proud of yourself?

Please get yourself some counselling. When people are 'addicted' to other people, particularly when that person is bad for them, it's never about the other person; it's about you. Something is lacking in you that you think you need and you think you find in him. Once you meet that need in yourself through some other means, you won't want this man any more.

Please see a counsellor. You can probably see one for free through an abused women's shelter.

Good luck to you.

I agree with everyone else (and as was pointed out, unanimity almost never happens on this board). I think that opening a separate account is essential, and in addition to a marriage counselor, it would be a good idea to consult a financial advisor.

"There was one more thought I had and that was how kids watch and learn what they witness everyday."

How timely. I stopped by DH's work today and met the new intern while I was there. I can't remember how it came up, but this kid (18 years old) starting telling me how women need to be taken care of, that men are the bosses and they were made the boss because they are stronger, etc. I just about blew a gasket, but realized it was a waste of time and just left. Where in this day and age does a kid learn such a thing? From his parents, no doubt. God help this kid's future wife. She'll be posting on here someday.

Hey I am back! Thanks to all of you who wrote in and gave me advice. You all seem to agree with my friends. My friends get so mad at me bc they hate the way i have changed in the past year. They hate that I can't do anything w/out permission and these days he gets mad at me for just asking if I can. I got breast Augmentation last year it was his idea and i am not gonna lie i wanted it to. But it was his push to get them but first he suggested that i work to get off some pounds and he is in great shape and well I needed it anyway. I have lost from 169 down to 118 in in one year so i went from a size 14 to a 6. And like i said got breast aug and went from a b cup to a dd. but he will not let me buy new clothes and bras - is that not stupid. I am the type of girl that will wear something season after season, my parents always say i go half naked to provide for my kids but I am sorry when you lose that much weight there is only so much a safety pin will do. My friends laugh at me. He will come home with me something new but it never anything I can wear to work or out with the kids its like something i would wear to bar actually i wouldn't even wear it there if i did have time with 4 kids to go places like that.

Anyway to those who asked yes i do work full time his ex wife work part time and always has.

I am in the medical field and work 40+ hourse i only bring home about 900.00 every two weeks after ins and 401k and everything. My exhusband pays me 185.00 a week for my two kids. I cover the medical insurance on my two kids, and my 3 stepchildren. Our kids are 5,7,8,11, and 15 mine all girls and one boy (my son).
My husband brings home about 1500.00 every two weeks and pays his exwife 180.00 every week, so the child support that i get and he pays out equals itself out. His mom joked when we got married hahaha that he married me to help him pay bills. at the time I thought what a nice thing to say. His kids have rooms that are decorated in themes and their mom buys them the nicest clothes and they get to do everything dance cheer, have tutors etc. My kids are told maybe next time the money is tight.

Anyway i agree with all of you and i know the right thing to do- but how i am so scared. Everything that we have is in his name The house the cars, all the CC, everything. All I have in my name is my school loans that are in collections bc he refused to pay them, bc my parents had been paying for my college until my dad lost his job and my mom got ill so i asked them to take over the payments bc it was only fair. They had promised to pay for me to go to college but they could not afford the payment and it was only fair but my husband got mad bc i did not ask him first. Those loans are like 9 years old and are almost paid off like 1000.00 and the payment is like 58 a month now my credit may be screwed. He wants me to borrow money from my 401k to pay it off. But i think that is crazy...
Like i said i am scared he is 38 and i just turned 30. I know it seems crazy to everyone how i can love this man but when we met it was so good and for the first 6mo of marriage it was great and then little by little things started changing and people who know us are like what happened. My friends half the time dont believe all the stuff i tell them and then at times i have showed them proofe and let them here vm or phone calls and it is just crazy. How do I make these changes w/out him going crazy on me. I just keep thinking that he will change and that we will go back to where we started, but when i try to talk tohim and he turns everything around on me and makes it my fault, i end up saying i am sorry and he still gives me the silent treatment and distance for about 3-4 weeks. and then nothing changes and here we are again. HELP

Honey, you need a lawyer and a place to stay.

get out with your 2 kids, go stay with parents, aunt, friend, whoever and go to a lawyer. and do it now. put hold on bank accounts before he takes everything out. sounds beyond just bad, sounds dangerous. you can survive on your own with two kids and nurse salary. you have health insurance and CS. you absolutelly do not need to take care of him. at age 30 you have nice future ahead of you. this is a BAD ABUSIVE marriage wuithout exaggeration.

lordy.

He *has* changed.

& he will continue to change, going in the same direction in which he's going right now-
toward more & more & more control.

He's doing his best to turn you into a combination sex toy, scapegoat, meal ticket, & slave, & he will continue, constantly increasing the pressure.

Please, don't hand over another nickel;
consult an attorney, & take your children & get out of there right now.

We all want you to keep posting to let us know how it's going, & we all wish you the best.

If he wears down your self esteem, little by little, you will feel like you need to stay with him. You'll start to feel nobody else will want you (he might even tell you that) and when you say he pushed you to lose weight and have surgery (even if you wanted it), it would tell me he doesn't accept you as you are (or that he is trying to fulfill HIS fantasy or create you in his image of what you should be). If your friends have noticed changes and everything in what you say here, sounds like he's anywhere from very controlling to potentially violent (and we only know a little bit), you need to do what is best for your kids. I'd be the first one to tell you how seriously marriage vows should be taken and divorce is the last option, but in your case, everything you say points to him becoming abusive and by the time it escalates to that, your kids will have suffered and you may feel even more trapped. Have you talked to a counselor or considered it? Many communities have women's centers for abused women that offer counseling for free or low cost. Even though he isn't abusive NOW, they can help you identify the red flags and offer support if you decide you want to leave but don't know how.

You shouldn't be sorry for his bad behavior. I know we, as women, often end up apologizing for things that are not our fault, and feel as if they are our fault. But the fact remains that HE is the one with a problem here.

As many others here have said, this guy is being abusive. Also, he sounds to me like a master manipulator. Manipulators can make you feel how they want you to feel about many things (I know, I was with one for two years). I believe that people can change certain things, but IMO, being an abusive manipulator is beyond the realm of what most people can change about themselves. My manipulative ex tried silent treatment on me too, but he only ever lasted about two days, and I wasn't willing to put up with that. The silent treatment is a form of abuse. So is trying to control what you wear (my ex did that too, but not to the point your guy is).

Whatever you do is your decision, but if it were me I'd pack up the kids and go. I hit my last straw with my ex when he accused me of cheating on him because I shaved my legs and left as soon as I had a place to stay arranged (two days later). Since you're here to talk to us, and you've started 'coming out' to your family and friends about how he is, I think your last straw is close. Whatever you decide to do, I hope the decision is as easy for you as it wound up being for me.

Sweetie,
Get your kids and get the hell out of there. This man is an abusive pig. It disgusts me reading how he treats you.

Granted I don't have the best marriage but your husband is just plain scary. Find a place to stay even if you have to go to a shelter for a few months. I would go to a credit repair place but be careful check with the BBB to find a good one, make arrangements to pay off your student loan, you can do $58 monthly. You can live on $1800 a month if your careful even with kids, heck it will be like living the high life after what you've been given for a allowance.

I think you are afraid because

A. this man is so controlling and manipulative he has you second guessing yourself, your thoughts and every move constantly! He has completely eroded your self esteem and isolated you from those who care about & love you.

B. You fear what he will do or him becoming violent when you leave.

I can't state it enough, get out of there. Take your kids and go, start over, you are only 30. You can be on your own and have a peaceful life without all the headgames.

What would you tell your girlfriend if she came to you telling you what you have told us?

Get rid of this loser and make a life for you & your kids, don't let him suck you back in with false promises, romance, pouting, threats etc...you will be just fine on your own.

Hugs..

I guess i am pretty stupid -I love my husband so much i would do anything for him and I have. I just wish i could go back to where we started. I just want to be is equal again. He treats me like a child and actually respects his kids more then he does me. I am always where i am suposed to be i pick up the kids and come straight home - i dont have any hobbies at all i always answer my phone and ask him before i go anywhere or spend money. He is the opposite i cant ask him anything, never mind tell me what think he should and he pretty much does what he wants to when he wants to ride his bike plays ball etc. IF i ever ask then its either he cant keep the kids bc he has something to do or if i have a babysitter say my brother then he suddenly was planning to spend time and do something special with me. After we have a big fight he always my a nice gift when really i just want him back. Not something else to put us in more debt. And like next week He planned us a trip for bike week at the beach and did not consider who would keep my kids. I asked my EX and he said he would but would only pay 85.00 for CS next week instead of 100.00 which seemed fair to me but that was a huge agrument between us and then between my ex and him - i think that is cheap daycare if u ask me be back later work calls

"I guess i am pretty stupid"
Absolutely not! That's the voice of your abuser talking.
Do NOT listen to that voice.
Your voice needs to tell you that you're smart and capable and strong and that you can take care of yourself.

Have you ever sat down and really asked yourself why you love this man? What is it in him that you find to love?
If all your answers involve the way he was, the way things were or what he did, then you have to realize you are in love with the past. You stay because you hope you will find that person again and everything will be rosey as it once was. There are many of us telling you that it just doesn't work that way - PLEASE listen. I can't stress enough - this isn't just about you. When you have children they have to come first, and hanging on to your dreams while he is sqandering away theirs is just not okay. This guy has whittled away your self respect and strength so that you will think of him before yourself . . . but your kids have to come before him. He is a big boy, they are not. While you sit by and wait for his miracle change your kid's childhood is ticking away. How do you want them to look back at it? How do you want to look back on it? With regret? Or with the knowledge that mom loved them and herself enough to be strong and stand up for them all?

I don't mean to be harsh . . . but really, I guess I do. You need to face the harsh facts, and sugar coating does not make them any easier to swallow.

Take a good look at why you are still there. Take a look at why you should leave. Look at your children's faces. Go.

If you stay, it will be downward spiral. If your X begins to suspect the issues, and I bet he will, he may go for revised CS or custody.

Either find a lawyer now or later. Now is better. Look up in the yellow pages for the nearest womans shelter. They will likely be able to give you the name of a reasonably priced lawyer.

don't be emabrassed that you love this man, there is no shame that you fell in love. love is blind, but it does not mean you have to stay with him. consider your kids' needs. let us know. do you have any family to help you?

I don't understand love like that, I think it is more need than love. Your kid's care come first. If you don't stop the debt build, even with a divorce the debt will be half yours.

I am so tired and worried all the time. At least once a day i say to myself or out loud i hate my life. I am so embarrassed if this does not work out. Its weird he treated me better and craved me more when i bigger, now i look alot better but even with my breast aug he never says i look good or acts like he wants me. he just says stuff like they are too hard or stand up straight but dang my back hurts all the time now. I am so afraid to say anything out of the way bc he gets so mad even over the simple stuff and then he will lv the house turn off his off and stay gone for hours and then come home with the silent tx for a few days. So then i just learn to keep my mouth shut bc i am afraid that he will cheat me. I did not find out until after we were married that he cheated onhis first wife he said he lost his kids and everthing and would never hurt me like that but my husband his very good looking i wonder sometimes why he chased after me bc i just don't measure up even after PS. everywhere we go bc my husband is so out going he gets attention and perks. I try to not to show that i am jealous bc i was aware of that before we got married and that s what i loved about him but I know that he could have anyone that he ever wanted - he is so nice he always talks his way into deals and perks - i dont see how he does it.

honestly, enough is enough. pack TONIGHT and be gone, if you have no place to stay: women shelter. you gotta be kidding me. "too hard...". i would show him what's too hard.

Amaulden,

As I've been reading your posts, it reminds me of a play I saw on Broadway. The play was M Butterfly. It was wonderful. The story (supposedly based upon true events)of a French diplomat stationed in China during the late 1950s. John Lithgow (from Third Rock from the Sun fame) portrayed the diplomat. Anyway, diplomat was in a stale marriage and became enthralled with a Chinese opera star. They begin a 20-year long affair, complete with a pregnancy, disappearance of the opera star for nine months, return of the opera star baby in tow, etc. Fast forward to the second act of the play taking place in the 1970s --- the diplomat is now on trial for treason having learned his lover was actually a spy for the Chinese government. The primary witness against the diplomat is the opera star. As the opera star is called to the stand, in a very dramatic entrance, the star disrobes, revealing a man dressed ina crisp suit & tie. The diplomat's lover was not a she but a he! Later as the Lithgow character is being crossed examined, there were lots of questions to him about how could he not have known his lover was a man and Lithgow struggled with weak answers as he was confronted with the reality of his lover's gender.

As my husband & I were leaving the theatre, we overhead many other patrons scoffing in disbelief about how could anyone be in an intimate relationship for someone that many years and not realize the sex of the person with whom they were making love? My husband and I talked about this as we walked back to our hotel and even over the next several days...the play had been a profound experience.

We decided the premise of the play was actually very believable because in our practice (private practice in counseling and psychology), we witnessed the dynamic portrayed in the play all the time. For us, the basic moral of the play was this:

There are times when our wishes and hopes are so strong, they override reality.

"My husband is a wonderful man when he doesn't drink."
"How many days out of the month is he sober?"
"Three or maybe four."

"My husband is a wonderful man when he doesn't beat me."
"How many times has he hit you in the last month?"
"Only once or twice...and he didn't really hit me. He only slapped me."

"He is so nice. He always talks his way into deals and perks."

And how does he treat you?

"He never says I look good or acts like he wants me. He just says stuff like they are too hard or stand up straight....he gets so mad even over the simple stuff... he will leave...and stay gone for hours and then come home with the silent treatment for a few days."

Amaulden, sometimes our wishes and hopes about what we want are so strong, they will literally override reality.

My hope for you is that you are able to set yours aside and make wise choices about the reality you face.

You may not know how unique it is for everyone posting here to be in agreement in their response to someone's circumstance. Please heed the wisdom offered you. It sounds as if you have supportive friends; you certainly have support here.

Draw upon it as often as you need.

Any man who whould steal money from a child is not a very good person. Get out sweet heart. I had a friend in the same position you are in now. Beware, the next step will be to move you away from friends and family and then the physical abuse will begin. Save your children. I know you love him, so did my friend, but after he tried to choke her to death one night she finally got the nerve up to leave. He still managed to use her social security# and ruin her credit. She's been seperated from him for seven years and stuff still keeps poping up on her reports.

My friend recently found out that he is being investigeted for ,how sick is this, trying to poison his own baby ,with another woman, to avoid child support payments. No lie. People like this really exist. I'm not saying your husband is THIS bad but alot of what you have said had the red flags waving and all I could think of was my friends ex boyfriend. RUN RUN RUN!

& keep your faith in yourself.

"Statistics show" that it's *very* hard for women to leave their abusers.

One of my pet theories, as everyone on this forum can attest, is that men are drugs.

They are addictive, & at some level they know it & they use that.

If a woman breaks off *all* connection for a month, she's in a much more clear-headed condition, she has a much better perspective, to see him for what he is & to deal with him rationally.

Get away, don't see him, don't talk to him, don't put your face into his coat to luxuriate in his scent, don't open his emails, just quit cold turkey.

Inside of a month, you'll be in a much better position to see the situation clearly.

Something just occurred to me...does he track your internet usage? Even if you think he doesn't, please dump the history and cookies on your computer when you walk away from it. If he has access to your computer it wouldn't take much computer savvy to find this thread.

OH, I aree with Sue, do clear your history, do you know how? Be careful, I fear your DH could become violent.

Please make a escape plan, most abusers step it up when they kow their spouse/victim is leaving. So make a plan and do not share it with him.

How does your brother feel about all of this? Does he realize the extent of which you are being controlled?

I hope you are ready to get out of this relationship soon as I feel he has completely eroded your self esteem and confidence in your ability to care for yourself and your kids. You can do it, you can make it on what you make with you & your kids, heck it will be like hitting the gravy train after your "allowance".

I think you need to really try to think more cold & clinical about this relationship and ask yourself what is it about this guy you love and find attractive (right now-not before) and that is not including looks.

Is he kind or cruel?
Is he generous or selfish?
Is he loving or manipulative?
Is he a good sport or mean spirited?
Is he loving and kind towards your kids?
Does he cherish you?
Does he encourage you to fufill your dreams?

I think you know the answers here and I know you are afraid & embarrassed. I've felt those things to when I was in a abusive relationship long ago. Thank God I finally got out but it took me so many years to find the courage to leave, he manipulated me when the abuse stopped working, threatened suicde when he knew the jig was up. Fortunately at that point I didn't care if he did kill himself as he was killing me!

Go and get you and your kiddies a life. You can do it, we will be here for you. I encourage you to go to your brother and close friends for support. I suspect they will be very encouraging to you and you need that right now.

*hugs*

It is embarassing to admit you've fallen into an abusive relationship. Isn't that awful? And to have to admit to the whole world, by leaving or divorcing, that your marriage is a failure. And that reluctance to 'expose your failure' can trap you in a bad situation for years. (It took me years to even begin to admit to myself that my verbally and psychologically abusive marriage was awful, then a few years more to come to terms with the idea of a divorce. That was the hardest part.) It's a bitter pill to swallow -- but it's much better done NOW than later, when the damage will be more severe and your support networks will have been further eroded.

And the sheer relief that comes with casting aside that curtain of lies and secrecy is enormous! The personal power surge you will feel by throwing this jerk out of your life is incredible. You may very well find yourself on an emotional high that lasts all the way through the rough part and sets you up in darn good stead for the next phase of your life.

You can do this --
Plan your exit carefully, and DON'T tip your hand in advance.
Get a lawyer, find the information you will need, line up a place to stay and move forward.

I actually dont think you are looking for advice because you already know what an unbeleivably horrible man he is.
you have no intention of leaving this man ,you are obsessed with him,i think you are desgusting for putting your children through this.I would let NO man let my kids go without so they can have such luxurys.I do not feel sorry for you atall but i do feel for your poor children.How you can put any man before your children is just beyond me,grow up and stop being a doormat .he does not love you

Tracy, cutting an abused person down further doesn't help anything. What Amaulden really needs is people to help her build up the confidence to leave her abuser. Blaming the victim is not constructive. (And people wonder why victims of violence or abuse don't come froward. Yeesh.)

I do understand what your saying ceph,but she has never tryed to stand up for herself.she loves him that much she as allowed him to treat her like this for so long that he just thinks its normal and acceptable.

and the only thing he is abusing is her kind nature.
she isnt worried about what he would do to her,she is just worried about losing him,so i dont see that as abuse as such.

"she as allowed him to treat her like this for so long that he just thinks its normal and acceptable."

snort!

That's the most beautiful example of blaming a victim as I've ever seen!

amaulden, please ignore what doesn't count & focus on what does.

Get a better life for yourself & your children.

& let us know how it's going.

Tracy - If you've never actually been abused, it's hard to see how it can happen to a strong, capable and emotionally healthy person. And when you see abused women rationalizing and excusing their abuser's behavior, blaming themselves, and walking on eggshells -- I admit -- there's a repulsiveness to this behavior. There's a part of us that wants to just slap them upside the head to clear their vision, and the temptation to blame them for allowing it to happen is strong. I mean - What self-respecting woman would put up with such garbage?!

But abuse doesn't go from non-existent to full-blown. By the time the abuse is readily visible to any normal outsider, it has been building insidiously for years, and the victem's perspective has already been so skewed that she (or he) can no longer see things clearly. By the time the abuse is clear-cut, the self-respect of the person in question is already badly damaged, and they're questioning their perceptions.

It starts as a little quirk, an indulgence or 'one time thing'. A request that's inappropriate but small (not worth arguing about), a comment that could be taken the wrong way (or did he mean it that way?), a slight, or a fleeting look of contempt. Things that in isolation, would and should be excused. But then they don't stay in isolation. Events get more slightly more frequent, less ambiguous, more insensitive -- but only slightly more offensive than the stuff we've already learned to tolerate. It's the proverbial frog in warm water situation; the water gets hotter and hotter, but still, the frog won't jump out.

On the day of my first marriage, we left the reception and went back to Hubby's hotel. We had a few hours to pick up his luggage before heading to the airport to leave for our honeymoon. Only Hubby hadn't actually packed his suitcase, and he turned on the TV. My feelings were hurt, that Hubby's immediate post-wedding plans weren't of the 'rip her clothes off' variety, but what bride wants to spoil her wedding day by fighting with her brand new husband about when he should have packed his suitcase? Was this abusive? Insensitive, sure. But abusive? Not the term most of us would use. Yet with the clarity of hindsight, I can assure you that it absolutely was abusive. It was the start of a long campaign to diminish my value, my attractiveness, my worth and sense of self-worth. But who'd have left over an unpacked suitcase?

Amaulden - I know you can't trust your own perceptions right now. You're wondering if it's really all that bad. After all, ALL of it isn't bad, and we've only heard one side of the story. But your friends, your parents, your children (if they're old enough) -- They may be able to see more clearly. If he doesn't treat you with respect, that's real and serious, and losing him would be the very best thing you could do. But do it on YOUR OWN TERMS --

After one year he has complete control and you have nothing. You are allowing yourself to the emotional abuse you are suffering. No one person can tell another person not to open a bank account. How is treating the kids? And what are they learning/respect?? NO. Only you can make the choice to continue. There are many support/legal groups that will help. Your parents have raised a faimly and it is not their responsibily to raise yours. Also make sure you have a will made out as to where your money and who gets your children if something happens. Put the will in a safe place. If you have any siblings you can trust, close friends, make sure they know what is going on.

Even without abuse and all that goes with it, it's really easy to lose track of what is and isn't "normal" from inside of a situation. "Normal" is what you see every day. "Normal" is what everyone else does. If everyone else at the golf course is retired and divorced and spends all their time playing golf, you start to think it's "normal" to spend every day on the golf course, you feel bad leaving your friends without their fourth while you're at work or spending time with your wife and kids. You start to think your wife is unreasonable for expecting you to limit your golf time to twice a month when EVERYONE YOU KNOW plays almost every day.

Add in a manipulative charmer who deliberately works to wear you down and warp your perspective, it can become impossible to trust your own judgment. It sounds to me like amaulden thinks she knows what her husband is doing is wrong, she is just looking for a point of reference to help her decide if she should trust her own judgment or not. Amaulden, if everything you've said is objectively true, then, no it is not normal, and yes you need to get out. I would argue that if there is no physical abuse yet, you might be smarter to talk to a lawyer first and get your financial and legal ducks in a row before walking out. But I would also say I have no expertise in abuse issues so getting advice from someone at a women's shelter or someone else who has experience and training might be the best first step.

the best thing I ever did was to open an account just for my child support- when I need money for them- there it is.

amaulden5304, I'm rooting for you, too.

I agree with the other posters, but I won't repeat it all again.

Just a couple of other ways to look at the same thing that might be helpful to you ...

1) Reading your posts, it sounds like you have set up in your mind a false choice: "Is he bad for me? Or do I love him?" Sweetie, they can BOTH be true. And leaving him, to do the right thing for yourself and your children, doesn't mean you don't know how to love or that you wasted your love. It just means it is time to move on. Making the right move now doesn't mean all your choices so far, including your choice to marry him, were stupid. Try not to waste any energy on any doubts like those; keep looking forward.

2) Similarly, many abused and controlled people set up another false dichotomy: "Is he abusing me? Or does he really love me?" Believe it or not, they can both be true, too -- that's the answer to the mystery (to outsiders) why abused women stay with their abusers: a lot of those guys really do, albeit in an unhealthy way, love those women -- their apologies and promises to change sound sincere because they ARE sincere. They mean it; it just doesn't last.

2) Many women who have gotten into a pattern of being controlled, especially if they feel responsible somehow, have taken such a hit to their self-esteem that it can be very hard to make a move for their own sake. But you aren't just a wife; you are a mom. You may not feel that you are worth taking a risk to protect yourself, and if your friends haven't been able to convince you that you are, I know I can't, but never mind that, because I bet you feel that your children are worth it.

You don't feel brave enough to leave this scary guy for yourself: maybe you are afraid you will have trouble managing being alone, or that you will feel lonely, or that you will feel foolish, or that he will give you hassles -- lots of things. It's scary, and maybe you feel you aren't brave enough.

But I bet you feel brave enough when it comes to your children. You would jump into the ocean for them, you would fight a tiger for them, you would run in front of a car for them. That's motherhood; fear won't stop you if it's for your kids.

So don't think about yourself, or whether you deserve something better -- just think about what you would do for your kids' sake. Maybe that will be easier.

I hope some of this helps. I know it won't be easy, but you have the done difficult things before (hey, you gave birth, right? and it sounds like what you are doing now is no day at the beach), and you can do this, too.

Good luck to you, and please keep us posted. We are in your corner.

Wise words Gellchom --
and spoken like someone who was walked in those shoes...

Thank you for the compliment, Sweeby. Fortunately, I have NOT walked in those shoes myself. But we all have experiences from which we can analogize. For example, we've all hesitated to revisit decisions we've made because we wince at the big "I TOLD YOU SO" that we feel may be waiting for us, whether from others or even just from ourselves. I don't want the OP not to do what she needs to do because she would feel like she was admitting she'd made a mistake to marry this guy in the first place. It just doesn't matter whether it was or not, and I don't want her to feel like that's what this is all about and to let fear of looking or feeling foolish hold her back.

I also worry that sometimes the "don't blame the victim!" mentality creates an unintended harm. Of course it's important not to BLAME a victim of abuse -- but you have to be careful.

I heard once about a center that worked with rape victims. They had been stressing to the women, "It wasn't your fault! You didn't do anything wrong!" so much, they ended up making these women feel utterly helpless, completely out of control of their own lives and safety -- ironically, exacerbating rather than ameliorating the traumatic feeling of loss of control. So they adjusted their approach a bit: they didn't blame the women, of course, but they stopped stressing all this so much, and even helped them to think about what they could have done differently (and could do next time): park in a lighted spot, learn the signs of an abusive relationship and take action, etc. -- reassuring them that their not having done so last time didn't make anything their fault. They had much better results; the women were better able to cope with their experiences and were no longer paralyzed by fear, because they no longer felt like walking targets, entirely at the mercy of people and events, but as grown-ups with control over their own lives and who could take care of themselves.

I want the OP to feel STRONG and empowered -- that she is leaving (if she does) not because she is a helpless little victim, but because she is a strong, grown-up, competent woman and mother who can make and carry out good choices for her family.

Because you know what? Whether or not she feels like it right now, that is what she is.