Hi, Cawfe

What age kids are you talking about?

My manner of discipline has always been to reward good behavior, and for bad behavior, subject the kids to the inconvenience that the bad behavior caused.

For example, when I took all four kids (my 2 and my husband's 2) out to dinner, and my husband wasn't with us.
My stepkids got into a food fight with each other in the restaurant. I didn't get upset, I just calmly said that dinner is over, and we're going home. You kids are obviously not mature enough to have dinner in a restaurant.
Their jaws dropped and they were absolutely shocked, because they were used to their parents tolerating this kind of behavior. Note that there were no warnings whatsoever. The first food that flew received 100% consequences. No yelling, no scolding, just natural consequences.

Another example, is when my teenage stepdaughter was supposed to be babysitting (for pay) the younger kids (ages 4 & 6) at the time, and she led them out onto the roof to repel off the roof with a safey rope. I didn't get upset,
I just told her that the job was over, because I didn't think that she had made a good decision and that she wasn't a reliable baby-sitter. It was easy money, but she blew it.

And so on. No warnings. No yelling. Just consequences, based on whatever the issue was.

It has actually worked beautifully with my own children, because they have always been raised that way. It's harder with children who are experiencing it for the first time, but they do learn not to mess with you, and they learn that every action has immediate consequences.

To me, discipline is anything that enforces a rule or positive behavior....

As a stepparent, I am am involved with all of the rules that are set and the discipline that follows. Me and my hubby reinforce each others actions and never never never change or overstep a rule or punishment that has been dealt out. I do not call him when there is a problem or say wait till your father comes home.... I am there ... I am responsible for these children not only for the time that they are with me but to make sure that when they are not with us/me that they understand that there are rules to follow and consequences if they do not. If we set the example that only certain people are able to deal out consequences, what does that teach them in the real world... teacher you are not my real mom or my real dad so you cant punish me.... the same goes for my daughter with respect to my hubby he treats her no differently than his own children even when it comes to discipline....(and everything else for that matter)

The actual discipline depends upon the situation... for example the boys decided one day all day to ignore me about cleaning their room... I finally set a timer and told them if it wasnt done when the timer went off they would lose anything on the floor... low and behold the timer went off and nothing was done... so I took a garbage bag and put every single item that was on the floor in the bag... they, ofcourse had a fit ... I eventually went back into the room and told them I didnt throw away their items but they would have to prove to me that they were responsible enough and grateful to have all of the wonderful toys they had or they would be donating it all to charity... they asked how I told them to figure it out and they did... they took it upon themselves to fold the clothes... wash the dishes and pick up the toys in the yard...

however, another occasion the boys were fighting and the older one had the younger one backed into a corner... I came up behind him and swatted their backsides and sent them both to their beds... later I made them sit down and say 10 nice things to each other (they hated doing it but o well it got the point across) they are brothers and they love each other and there will be no fighting in my house.

As far as a babysitter goes .... I am entrusting the safety of my kids in their hands... they have my full permission to deal with the situation as it arises... I will not have my children bio or step thinking they can overrun anyone...and lord help my children if I find out they acted the fool with a babysitter...

The bio mom had a problem with me disciplining at first but we made it very clear to her that we are a family and as a family everyone will be treated the same regardless of titles...and as my hubby pointed out if she did the same with the kids they wouldnt over run her the way that they do.

When I see Stepparent shouldn't discipline their Stepchildren ... It to me is a blanket statement. NO discipline.

To me there is a difference between rules and consequences. I enforce the rules of the house... example: NO eating or drinking in the living room ... has been a rule since they were born.... everyday ... can I eat in the living room? or they grab something to eat and head straight to the couch. and everytime I say ... I know its a new rule and you need to get used to it but there is no eathing or drinking in the living room. And before you say oh just let them ... if they didn't spill every drink they take into the living room or drop half their food on the floor maybe it would be an option... bad enough the kitchen table looks like pigs ate dinner there when they are done. They drop food on purpose for the dog to eat. They have to clean up after themselves now .. another rule.

Its not as if I wake up in the morning and say how can I make my SC break a rule today so I can punish them.
my SCs BM tells my SC "cawfe can't tell you what to do" but she doesn't tell them they shouldn't be doing this or that and they wouldn't have consequnces.

My SC do not whine to me, do not beg me to be off punishment. They were used to two push over parents. I am very firm with my SC if you do that this will be your punishment. end of story there is no bargaining. With mom and dad its a whine fest ... but daddy why can't I.... 15/20 times ... daddy used to give in after a while... That was one of our major disagreements... why put yourself through that to say yes if you say no stick to it. if you are gonna say yes then just say yes why have them badger you for an hour or asking 20 times for something. It teaches them if they whine long enough they get what they want ... well the real world doesn't care how much you whine about something.

Discipline is defined as:
Training to act in accordance with rules....
In our house, we pretty much subscribe to the way southernsummer does it. Natural consequences to actions, and redirection of negative behavior. We don't specifically "reward" good behavior, as it's expected as part of a family. That being said, we are a family, and we are ALL involved in the unit, so I receive and give equal treatment across the board. We try really hard not to scold, as that seems to be a natural reaction to negative behavior, but it doesn't work. Especially for me. It creates resentments. But natural consequences and redirection works awesome, and doesn't make anyone the "badguy" or "stepmonster".

Cawfe,

You're right on. Don't let anyone here try to make you second guess yourself. BM should kiss the ground you walk on.

I'm not as stern as you are, not comfortable disciplining the steps when they were younger and obviously not now. But, they only lived w/ me when older - SS moved in at 17, SD at 24, so it's tougher. But, I was in the role of a stepmom to my dear nephews - had them 7 days/week, all weekend long overnight too. They slept at home weekdays from 8:30 pm til the next morning - then off to school, to grandparent's or mom's (if off work) house til I picked them up. I had no trouble disciplining them, viewed myself as the mother, etc. So, w/ living w/ the skids, I think you must enforce rules, teach them about consequences, etc.

Some BMs here do sound a little bitter towards every SM. Some are probably worthy of it, and I suppose those you know in real life can sour you on the whole lot, so those prejudices carry over to here. Anyway, again I say that it would be a cold day in he!! before my kids were raised by anyone but ME, but we're all different kinds of moms, I guess.

Dana

Not second guessing myself... right or wrong I am the one here with these kids not their mother and when daddy gets home ... I don't want to bombard him with at 8:05 SS did this at 9:32 SD did this and list would go on. By then the incidents are over with and they have gone on to do other things through out the day.

Discipline is defined as:
Training to act in accordance with rules....
is a great description.

I enforce the rules of this household ... I cannot help it if their BM's house has no rules.

When I see discipline I am thinking spankings etc. I do not spank although at times my SC need a swift kick in the rear. It won't be my shoe doing it.

Ok here's one its saturday morning 7 am all 3 children are up slamming doors playing with the hose spraying each other and screaming and running around the house I wake up go downstairs and send them all back to bed .... after its 7 am have some consideration for others in the house and the neighbors ... they don't care no remorse nothing. how would you like it if I woke you up at 2 am everynight slamming doors and throwing water... go ahead I don't care ... so that night at 2 am .... I went in the with a wooden spoon and a heavy pot and starting clanking them around ... woke all 3 up .... Sucks to be awakend by someone making noise doesn't it. the next morning they got up had breakfast (in the living room they left the evidence) but sat quietly watching tv until 8 am when I got up.

cawfecup-lol, definetely a good way to get the point across!!

Cawfecup-all I can say is--Brilliant!!!!
Mrs Partridge would be proud!

It would really be ok with all of you if someone hit your children?

"It would really be ok with all of you if someone hit your children?" (TOS)

"I do not spank although at times my SC need a swift kick in the rear. It won't be my shoe doing it. " (Cawfe)

Who said anything about hitting your children?

The gist of this thread has been natural consequences for behavior.

I teach my children to behave when they are with my ex- and his girlfriend. There has never been an issue of spanking or any type of discipline when they are with ex-.
It's unfortunate that my step-children's mother has taught them that it is permissable to treat me with disrespect, as some type of sick revenge on my husband. But I have never
disciplined my step-kids in any way other than natural consequences.

But revenge is a dish best served cold...and bio-mom might win this battle, but for the long haul, she is not doing her children any favors.

mom_of_four said,

"I came up behind him and swatted their backsides" and
"As far as a babysitter goes .... I am entrusting the safety of my kids in their hands... they have my full permission to deal with the situation as it arises.."

If, in general, you think it is appropriate for non-parents to discipline your children, what if the non-parents believe physical discipline is appropriate? What if they believe denying food for an entire day, or two, is appropriate? If you believe that allowing others to discipline your children is ok, you are giving up your right to control how they discipline, as long as what they do is not illegal. In a school system, the forms of discipline are very specific and detailed in the student handbook, and limited to such things as detention and suspension. In most states, corporal punishment in any form is not allowed. If you don't like the style of discipline, you have the option, at least in theory, of putting your child in private school or a different school system. There is, unfortunately, no step-parent handbook that step-parents are bound by. Biological parents don't have the option of pulling their children out of the situation.

My SCs BM would tell the kids that I couldn't discipline them. But when they would "act up" at her house she would tell the kids ... "I am gonna tell cawfe what you did". I have more control over her kids and I am not even there.

My SC fight with each other for whatever reason ... When I ask why did you hit your sibling? he/she was aggravating me ... oh so when you aggrevate me I can hit you?? No then you can't hit your sibling either.

Yes, all of us are starving our step-kids.
You figured us out.

A swat on the behind is totally different than corporal punishment.

And as to denying food .... BM does that.
BM used a "belt" to discipline her children. (alot of good it did)
All it did was teach them violence was how to correct bad behavior.
My SC used to flinch if you raised a hand to them even to brush their hair off their face.

Tidbit of info:

BM "they don't need to eat healthy meals I give them vitamins".

I do not go around and using hitting as a primary mode of handling every situation... as I said the consequence should fit the crime... so to speak...

and yes my hubby (who is not my daughters father) has spanked my daughter (which really breaks down to a swat on the backside) and I have no problem with it. I would much rather my children are safe and well behaved than squibble over who does what...I have always been of the mind that it truly does take a village to raise a child... ideally I and my hubby wouldnt have to deal with ALL of the disciplinary actions but unfortunately.. the bm does not choose to do anything even remotely close to discipline rules or any such structure....

it's bad enough that just last night my ss called his mom and the entire time he was talking to her he was disrespectful and condencending... I finally told him to talk correctly to his mother that she is his mom and to treat her with respect...

And seriously, there is a far leap between a swat on the backside and starving your child... let's not take things to extreme.... and I will say again the thing I repeat to the BM over and over... it isnt about you or your feelings it is about the kids and drawing lines in the sand does not help them at all.... like it or not we are all family in one way or another

And a step parent is a parent regardless of biological birth or not.... especially when the sc are living with the step parent and that step parent is essentially the primary caregiver...

I only noticed one person who actually said that they "swatted" their kids backsides. I don't believe that anyone here condoned "corporal" punishment.
I have no bio children. I am raising one of my SS's. His mother hit him..relentlessly actually. She chased him, and cornered him like and animal and hit him when he didn't do as she said immediately. I would NEVER lay a hand on a child. Mine, or anyone elses. Discipline does not mean physical punishment.
Disipline is training to act in accordance with rules.
A school disciplines, a company disciplines, a parent disciplines, a court disciplines. There are rules and guidlines that we follow as a society, and we are compelled to assist each other in complying.
For a Step parent to assist in this is only natural.

jessegirl,

Swatting a child is corporal punishment. How would you feel if you did have a child, were divorced, and the child's stepmother spanked your child?

TOS: I'm sorry,I wasn't clear above. I don't condone corporal punishment at all, "swatting" included. I don't believe in it across the board. My point is that I believe that there was only one person here who does. I don't recall anyone else saying that it is OK to "swat" ones stepchild. It's not OK in my opinion.

That being said, "discipline" is different. I believe that it is fine to discipline one's step children(as I defined above-training to act in accordance with rules)or any children left in your care (of which I use redirection. I consider the two issues totaly and completely separate. In my opinion, corporal punishment is not discipline.
On a similar note, my SS lives with me, and I (along with his father) am the primary care giver to him. Unfortunately he came to us becuase his mother was abusing him physically and emotionally. The last thing I would condone is corporal punishment.

A step parent is not a parent. Ask a lawyer.

And when you go on to say especially when your dh has custody, I wouldnt agree with thaat (again, ask a lawyer), but especially would not agree with an inference that a spouse of a noncustodial parent is a parent. Not true. If my Xs GF, even if she becomes wife, ever tried to assert any parental rights I would be in court immediately. My agreeement provides for no third party pickups and ROFL.

I'm not sure if you're referring to my specific post. But you're right a step-parent is not a biological parent. I'm not suggesting they are one in the same.
The only reason that I'm involved on any level with the care of one of my SS's is becuase he was removed from his BM's custody, and came to live in my home. I assist his father in taking care of him. (much less now since he's a teenager) However, I have had to on occasion take him to a Dr's appt, Dentist, etc. when we've been in a pinch. Of course, all major decisions about his medical care or otherwise are left to his father. My participation/influence is well within the guidelines of his specific agreement.
In you're situation, I'm quite sure that your children's care would be best left to you and their father (as it should be) since you have not lost your children due to physical and emotional abuse. You're obviously willing and capable to make sound decisions for your children.
Unfortunatly, some people are not so capable.

Mom of 4 said a stepparent is a parent. Not true. A parent inlcudes parents by birth and adoption. Just because the word stepparent exists does not mean that those individuals are considered parents under the law. they may be significiant indivicuals in a childs life, but they are not parents.

depends wehre your located...in canada even though you might be a step-parent if you have a bond with that child and the marriage does not work out, quite possible you will have to pay child support.

As for the discipline it depends on what it is if its something thats disresepecting you or the home you live in of course you have a right to say something, however if it is something to do with the child....id leave it to the bio-parent only because alot of times the bio-parent (most often the dad) does not want to be seen as the bad guy and pushes the discipline onto GF, new wife so he can still be the cool dad, and the ex & new wife become the enemy. My personal experience. BUT, when it comes to functions with my side I explain the behaviour I expect (for example 8 years old-NO MAKEUP WITH ME, and what the consequences will be, as for husbands side he can deal with his side his way...he wants to let her wear makeup....not my place to say anything ....sorry for the ramble

kkny, I agree in most instances that is correct, and in an emotional sense for a child that is correct. We have to be careful with children to not confuse them as to who is what. However, one can be a legal guardian of a child that is not their "own". At least in the state that I live in.
I also suppose the actual name "parent" can be misleading since there are many people who raise children who they didn't give birth to, nor adopt, but still remain the primary caregiver. Maybe that's a better term.

How do I discipline in this situation?

Children are not allowed to have any type of "guns". They use everything as a weapon they don't need actual weapons.

So BM buys 2 nerf guns that shoot rockets. They bring them home within 15 minutes the 11 yr old was "aiming" at the 9 yr olds chest and hit him in the eye with the rocket ... laughs. I took the guns away and sent 11 yr old to his room. his reaction "How did I know it would rapid fire and hit him in the face"!

It says right on it do not aim at face ... but I didn't aim it at his face. it was an accident. It doesn't matter accident or not take responsibility for your actions. If I am driving my car and hit someone its an accident but I still go to jail.

Go to your room no I don't have to I didn't do anything wrong. Two hours later he is still sitting on the stairs. arguing his point that he didn't aim it at his face. Not his fault the 9 yr old moved in the way of it so he could get hit in the face with it.

If it had been the other way around and the 9 yr old "shot" him he would have beat him up. The 9 yr old was waving a stick at the 11 yr old last weekend and "almost hit the 11" so he whipped the 9 yo several times before I could get out the door to stop him. again saw nothing wrong in what he did because "he almost hit him".

How do I discipline that one?

How do I discipline in this situation?

Children are not allowed to have any type of "guns". They use everything as a weapon they don't need actual weapons.

So BM buys 2 nerf guns that shoot rockets. They bring them home within 15 minutes the 11 yr old was "aiming" at the 9 yr olds chest and hit him in the eye with the rocket ... laughs. I took the guns away and sent 11 yr old to his room. his reaction "How did I know it would rapid fire and hit him in the face"!

It says right on it do not aim at face ... but I didn't aim it at his face. it was an accident. It doesn't matter accident or not take responsibility for your actions. If I am driving my car and hit someone its an accident but I still go to jail.

Go to your room no I don't have to I didn't do anything wrong. Two hours later he is still sitting on the stairs. arguing his point that he didn't aim it at his face. Not his fault the 9 yr old moved in the way of it so he could get hit in the face with it.

If it had been the other way around and the 9 yr old "shot" him he would have beat him up. The 9 yr old was waving a stick at the 11 yr old last weekend and "almost hit the 11" so he whipped the 9 yo several times before I could get out the door to stop him. again saw nothing wrong in what he did because "he almost hit him".

How do I discipline that one? Other than instense therapy.

whether its a schild or biochild, consequences for actions are neccessary. I refuse to get into debates on why can't i do this ...so for me its "I told you and thats the end of discussion" and I walk away. They don't want to go to their room fine, I'll unplug the TV, the stero whatever it takes,
I used to do that when I was babysitting my younger cousins as well, you'd be suprised how far END OF DISCUSION GOES if you stick to your guns.

Kids by nature whether they are your own or not will challenge authority be it their parents or you and when they draw you into the argument then you are essentially giving them a power struggle because they've engaged you inot discussing the punishment.

hope this helps

I like lostdazed's response.
I do a lot of "in this house, we take responsibility for our actions, accidental or not." It's not a quick fix, it's a mantra. I have said it over and over, and my SS's are finally getting it.
I assume you took the nerf guns away from them? Letting them know that if they can't take responsibility for their actions, they cannot use the toy.
Other than that, you will end up in a standoff with child, and that's not where you really want to go I'm sure.

The nerfs are going back to moms on thursday until then they are put away ....

well it was 2 hours of blah blah blah... I didn't do anything wrong. Anything to stay out of his room finally he went to his room and was back out in 20 minutes .... I told him it took you two hours to go to your room so your punishment starts after 2 hours.

I did walk away I went outside he followed me around the yard. I came him the house he came in after me. I went into my room he stood in my doorway. I was tempted to just get in my car and leave him here... he is relentlous ...

I was waiting for his counselor to call me back this morning I left her a message she sees him on thursday.

The ups man just left my copy of "backtalking" 4 steps to ending rude behavior and mom's house dad's house Making two home for your child...

even if they follow you around, do not say anything until they start trying to have a conversation, when they do just date firmly that you will discuss it after they go to their room for the duration of the punishment. Pick up a book read it, go about your business til its done if they follow you they follow you eventually they will get the hint.

HOWEVER, whatever method your using to discipline must be the same across the board. Alot of times it is easier to come down on hard on a schild than a bio child and thats not fair either.

Good luck!!

Interesting subject! My therapist claims that as a SM to a 12-year-old whose father is out of town almost weekly, that I cannot say anything to the boy to enforce house rules or discipline him. Not certain what I'm supposed to do now. Therapist said DH has to start checking in with SS daily, if not two or three times a day by phone when he's out on the road and 3-way conversations should take place among us since SS is so sneaky and blatantly lies to DH when he calls about what he's not doing or doing. According to therapist, I'm supposed to tell DH everything when he gets home so he can deal with it. While all of this sounds good in theory, I'm pretty darn miserable feeling like I can't say anything in my own house, especially when it's affecting my health and well-being as well as my biological child's.

I completely agree that punishment should be the same across the board for both SKs and BKs and the consequence should fit the rule violation. In our situation, that isn't always the way it's handled. This past week: DH calls SS, I put them on speaker phone to have a 3-way discussion and DH asks SS if he's done all HW and chores. Knowing full well that I'm conversating with them, SS looks right at me and tells DH he's done EVERYTHING which was a complete lie! I corrected the error but it gets better. When DH asked him why he didn't do his chores, SS flat out says, I don't want to so I'm not going to. DH says no TV for a week then turns around and takes him to a movie on Saturday, lets SS watch movie with him last night, treats him to dinner out and ice cream. No wonder I'm not making any ground here! And DH can't understand why I'm always so mad!?!? Maybe it wouldn't be so bad if DH didn't always preach about things having to be fair and equal between the two children, which they quite clearly aren't. But when it comes to being fair or equal on his part, it doesn't hold up. Discipline is quite obviously in the eye of the beholder and if that person isn't willing to follow the set parameters, you might as well pound salt.

Dad is out of town a lot. Where is biomom???

he came home from school with the same attitude he had yesterday and it started all over again ... I packed the 2 younger ones in the car and left him here. I came back after I took the other 2 for ice cream. His father was here "dealing with him" I left and went to my sisters house.

I just got home all are sleeping I'll find out what happend in the morning.

Laurels ... I feel for you ...I would be looking for a new therapist or telling hubby I can't do this alone. Thats what I did Monday night. Either you get him under control or I will not be taking care of him any longer if you are not here. He can go __________ (anywhere) until you can pick him up to bring him home. I will not be harassed by a defiant child. Who thinks he can say and do whatever he wants to me without any consequences. There are 4 other children here who deserve attention too and if all my energy is spent on one I don't have energy for the others.

In less than 2 weeks they will be home from school for the summer. And the 11 yr olds buddy is going away for the summer and he knows this so he is upset but instead of saying he is upset he is lashing out.

I read the book "backtalking" someone had mentioned ... but it kept saying put the child in the room Ok I have done that been doing that for months but he comes right back out.

KKNY again Laurels SS's BM is useless and hubby puts it all on her to care for SS while he goes out of town for work. Laurel works full time and still accomodates her hubby with his child while neglecting her own and feeling all the guilt that comes with it. The SS lives with her but has to be treated like a guest so as not to upset him. I know you will find it hard to believe but some mothers walk away from their kids ... they allow them to be disrepectful spoiled brats and then blame others for their bad behavior and drop them off when they can't handle them anymore. And continue to blame others instead of taking responsibility for their actioms or inaction as the case may be.

MY SC's BM backed up my SSs bad behavior by saying "it was an accident" he didn't mean to shoot his brother in the eye with the gun. Did he aim it at his brother ? yes Then he is wrong.

Laurels- I can't believe a therapist would tell you that... what good is coming from that advice...right now you have a dissrepectful child on your hands whose in full control og your home.... I think its time for a heart to heart with hubby that you will be part of the disciplining and that he will back you up at all times.... and a very clear heart to heart with ss of what is expected and what the consequences will be... and personally I would leave it up to him.... life can be great if you do what we ask if not life will not be a treat your choice... and leave it at that just back it up

cawfe- I dont know... personally I would not have been overly concerned with a nerf rocket in the face ... I would have pointed it out ... asked for an apology for the younger child... and let it go... with four kids and too much to do I am a big believer of pick your battles.... the ignoring you and not going to his room on the other hand.... no no no oh man I... I'll tell you what my dad did to my brother who had that issue of I dont have to do what you say and after more arguments than I can even remember.... My dad finally told him very calmly one day that he wasnt going to fight with him any more infact he could do anything he wanted it was his choice he could choose to do what my dad asked or he could choose not too my dad didnt care it was up to my brother...but just know there are consequences for your actions ... my dad left it at that and sure enough my brother that he was hot to trot and didnt come home at curfew... when he did come home however.. my dad had taken EVERYTHING except his mattress one sheet one blanket and one pillow out of his room ... my brother blew up but ofcourse my dad was ready and told him that sine he didnt choose to do as he asked my dad didnt choose to give him all of the luxuries he was used to...my brother told him he couldnt do that ... my dad told him he could and would until he decided to prove that he wanted to be a member of the family and take part of the responsibilities and priveleges of that... it took a good month for my brother to realize my dad was serious and to earn his stuff back... but that was pretty much the end of that drama

Believe it! Therapist said I have to choose my battles and act as if SS is an inconvenience rather than a problem! I cannot stand the fact either that a 12-year-old is running this house. DH & I did talk , he told me he's not here enough to do the enforcing and disciplining so it's in my hands. The problem is, DH doesn't want to be the bad cop, so I get to do it, and I don't want to either. I already raised one child on my own and she certainly didn't turn out anything like SS. So maybe the therapist is right and DH needs to put up or shut up. The whole situation makes me livid but I need to get over it somehow to maintain my sanity.

KKNY, cawfe pretty much gave you my situation in a nutshell. It's not as awful as it could be, but it could be better. Biomom is 3-1/2 hours away and tells SS constantly that I'm not his mother (don't want to be either), he doesn't have to listen to me, or tell me the truth about anything. BM wants SS to go live with her this summer but DH refuses claiming he won't come back and all she wants is the CS (she hasn't paid CS in 3 years).

cawfecup- I know what you mean...."some mothers walk away from their kids ... they allow them to be disrespectful spoiled brats and then blame others for their bad behavior and drop them off when they can't handle them anymore. And continue to blame others instead of taking responsibility for their actions or inaction as the case may be."
Spoiled children never accept that they are responsible for their own misfortune, should something unpleasant occur they will invariably find someone else to blame; "He pushed me", "She made me so upset I knocked over the vase"....inevitably teaching children that they are blameless creates irresponsible and dependent adults who blame others for all unwanted results. They usually try to avoid responsibility, endlessly complain, blame others, tell lies and avoid the consequences of their actions and demand or manipulate other people to do for them what they will not do for themselves.

By remaining locked into their victimized "explanations", they becomes helpless to change a situation or attitude, while they pour their energy into complaining and anger, and other misdirected activities that can't resolve their issues.

I am dealing with this problem as well. With my 10 year old twin Stepchild. Although he isn't aggressive toward the other kids, he will sometimes "hit first" and when he is disciplined he will try to "excuse" his behavior by saying that they were "about to" hit him....My biggest problem with him is not that he gets defiant, or disrespectful-he will just whine endlessly and play the victim to avoid taking responsibility!! Like tonight, he lied about having used "soap" to take a bath. When i asked him where it was, he said he had put it by the sink. I thought it was odd because why would he take the bar of soap out of the tub and put it by the sink? When I picked it up, it was totally dry. So I asked him again, except I told him to "think about it and tell me the truth" and he whined: "I did use soap mom!" So I asked, so why is the bar of soap dry?" Now he starts to look panicked, bursts into tears and tells me: "okay, mom I made a mistake, like you said nobody's perfect, I used the conditioner to take a bath"(He's good) Long story short-He was sent to his room, and had an early bedtime. The whole time he was in there whining, and moaning about how he "hates being in his room" I told him to hush up because he would be in his room till bedtime if he didn�t. He whines some more!!! and adds..."Mom why are you so mean to me all the time?" I totally ignored the comment and left the room because if I hadn't, I would have lost it. He then continues to mumble...i stood by the door and overheard." I have such a miserable life, I just hate my life. Everyone hates me..." Then he calls me over and tells me he "learned his lesson" and he isn't going to lie to me ever again. Oh and this time he "really means it"...So how about the other 10 times Chris, those you didn't mean?" So how do i know that "this time" you are being honest? To which he responds...I really mean it this time MOM!!....(more whining and crying.....)It was bedtime at that point, I just couldn't deal with him anymore tonight.

Since he sees himself as the "victim", instead of taking steps to help himself, he lobbies against others, looking for supporters to help justify his anger and blame. Its like he's hardened his heart against others, making his world more antagonistic and combative.

Since he truly believes that his problems are caused by "other people", he hopes they'll be resolved by other people. He passively waits for a rescuer, in the form of a parent, a teacher, a neighbor or anyone who will pull him out of his circumstances. Since he has no control over the rescuer, he remains trapped in the situation, firmly entrenched as the helpless "victim".

He lies about practically everything, its like he does not know the meaning of honesty! His excuse for lying is that he is "afraid he'll get in trouble" if he tells the truth. Yet he continually gets "in trouble" for lying!!! Then when he "is" disciplined, he starts with "everyone is so mean, my life is miserable...bla bla bla".The whole situation is transferred toward trying to get you to feel "sorry for him" and give him one more chance....God, he is draining me. After almost 2 years of therapy, you�d think he would know better by now? He�s a super-sweet little boy, but dealing with him is a constant uphill battle.

I know I over reacted about the "nerf" but if I didn't stick up for the 9 yr old the 11 yr old will "bully" him forever.

These past few days I have done nothing but cry. Trying to figure out how to get a hold of myself in the situations that come up with him its not as if this was the first time he hit (physically assaulted) his brother.

Had a 3 hour discussion with SS11 and hubby tonight. He's been mean to me because he is afraid we are going to divorce. I feel so sad for him poor kid is sooo confused.

Seems the BM's BF she left hubby for dumped her over the weekend so on sunday when they visited with her she had a pity party and invited her kids. So he came home sad but doesn't know how express himself about his feelings. I should have seen it coming I "can tell" when he had a bad day at her house. But having my own pity party I didn't see what was going on with him.

Are you trying to drive me away.... your going to leave anyway. Mommy said you were going to leave daddy just like bf left her. I am not going anywhere!! Even though I was contemplating going away, not going to "make him choose his child over me". I gave up "my life" to be a part of yours and daddy's.

""I know I over reacted about the "nerf" but if I didn't stick up for the 9 yr old the 11 yr old will "bully" him forever"

I really don't think you overreacted . I don't allow my kids to play with guns or weapons period-just because there is only one way of playing with them. Since these kids are already bombarded with so much violence in the media, as soon as they have a toy weapon in their hand they almost always play out what theyve seen on TV. So I just avoid them altogether. Even if someone buys them as a gift...I let them know they are not "allowed" to play with weapons. If they ask why, I tell them because I think they promote violence =) (then they look at me as if I were from another planet) One time my MIL brought by a bag full of toys that had been at her house. As soon as they dumped the bag on the floor, I picked up all the weapons and put them in the trash. I know its a little complicated because Bio-mom got them, but if one of them gets hurt, she'd turn around and say you should have been "watching them" or something...Don't beat yourself up for having done what you did. You did the right thing.! There is nothing more damaging to a child that to have to endure being bullied by an older sibling. He needed someone to protect him, and you did. I just finished reading a book on sibling abuse, it discusses all the different kinds of abuse. These children grow up feeling completely powerless and resent their parents for not "protecting them" from the older sibling. If you've seen him displaying "bullying" behaviors towards his younger brother before, please keep a close eye on him whenever he is around his little brother. Does his little bro act as if he is scared of him?

I mean I understand that he really must have had a horrible day at his mom's and came home feeling frustrated, confused, and angry. I am sure his younger brother was also feeling conflicted.

He couldn't express those feelings verbally so he came home and hurt his brother then laughed. Then he proceeded to become argumentative, blame his bro for getting in the way, refused to take responsibility for his actions and disrespected you. Now he is saying: "Are you trying to drive me away.... your going to leave anyway"- you are feeling so sorry for him now. Even guilty for not seeing it coming...So does this mean that he doesnÂt have "any" consequences for his actions? If you and your DH start letting him get away with these behaviors because you start "feeling sorry for him", you are going to have a long, rough road ahead with him. And he will know that "all he has to do" is pull on your heart strings to get over on you guys, and make you feel guilty for punishing him. It sounds like manipulation at its best to me. In effect he is "blaming you" for his behavior that day. Still refusing to take responsibility for his actions. Did he get any privileges taken away or consequences for his behavior that day?

My eldest use to pull this kind of thing all the time. I really didnÂt know how smart he was at the time. At first I really felt sorry for him, sad, and even guilty for "not seeing it" like you, on "certain days" so I can totally relate. He would assault his siblings, refuse to take responsibility, blame them for "provoking him", and then follow me around, arguing his innocence, and try to get me to "engage", he wouldnÂt stopÂ.just kept testing me, pushing me to my limitsÂ.if I wouldnÂt give in and totally ignore him, then he would start crying. He would sit in his room and talk to himself (out loud so I could hear) saying how his mom had left him and he missed her so much. Sometimes it would bring me to tearsÂbut I later realized it was a "game" he played. After watching him do it over and over again. HeÂd get in trouble, drive me crazy for hours, then guilt meÂ.it was all about control. He had to be in control. By either annoying me, upsetting me or making me feel guilty. He was always in control because I would fall into it every single time, responding to each situation as he expected me to. At the same time, he would disrupt my entire day, stress me out, and I ended up neglecting the others during those times he was having his meltdowns and required my absolute attention. Sometimes he would laugh after being physically aggressive towards his siblings and always found a way to "blame" them for either being in the way, or "making him" do it. What IÂm getting at is that at 10 years old, he was a master at manipulation. You need to be very vigilant with him, he sounds like a very smart little boy.

-Take care of yourself
-Dcubana

He was punished for his behavior he had big plans with a cousin and a friend this weekend. Both have been denied. He cannot go anywhere until he can show concern and caring as "part of a family". It took him 2 days to admit he had "shot" his brother. He can lay guilt on me all he wants. I didn't cause the divorce. We also got into the whole not having breakfast again seems they did have breakfast but were still hungry because he didn't like the cereal so he figured he would say he didn't have any ... knowing full well we wouldn't call mom on it ... told him directly next time you or your siblings say mom didn't feed you. They are getting on the phone and asking her why they didn't have any. Putting it on them to not "lie".

I know this is dumb and it will probably be worse after I do it but giving BM a call and asking her to meet for coffee to work some issues out. If we all don't get on the "same page" with issues regarding these kids they will run all over us forever. Making a list of topics to cover at our little get-together.

There wasn't any screaming or hollering waited 2 days for me to talk to him. Was told immediately backtalk and disrepect will no longer be tolerated there will be instant consequence for any action. If you have a problem at mom's do not give me or your father the attitude just say I had a bad day can we talk.

Yesterday I spent the day "researching" my options as a stepparent. I went to the police station, DSS, and court house. He was told of all the options that are available to me. I was not given free reign to smack him in the mouth when he "backtalks" or gets "mouthy" but depending on the circumstances I can discipline any way I see fit. And if I have to call the police they will "discipline him" any way they see fit.

He was given a 2 week "trial period" ... if he can behave like part of the family. He will earn some of his priveleges back. He is to go to school come home do his homework and is in the house for 2 weeks. TV is the only privelege he is allowed at this time everything else has been taken away. No sports no music no friends. And if he "acts up" before or after a visit with BM he will not even be allowed to go there. Don't know if I can stick to that one. DSS worker said if we "know" mom doesn't have any food we can be "charged with neglect" along side her for not acting on their behalf.

And I was bullied by an older sibling.... Thats why it bothers me so much that the 9 yr old is the target of most of the aggression because he doesn't fight back. My SD8 will fight back and she is fierce with him so he doesn't mess with her as much. She will not be bullied gives it to him as bad as he dishes it out.

I'm so glad to hear that you "get it. Simply because so many other parents "don't" or just don't want to put any effort into helping their own kids. It sounds like you have a really good plan in place so far-and if his mom is willing to help out....it can work.

We too had to meet with his grandmother on several occasions and tried really hard to get her onboard with discipline but unfortunately she wasn't willing to enforce any rules or consequences for his behaviors while he was at her house. She just wanted to be the "nice grandma" who showered him with gifts and took him to all those places we couldn't afford. She told us that she wasn't going to punish him, because she hardly got to spend time with him as it was. So all our hard work and structure was out the window as soon as grandma picked him up.

If she took them all, she would allow him to bully the others, and turn a blind eye when they would complain to her. One time they came home from the park with her and one of the twins walked into the house "limping",so I asked what had happened. Apparently the eldest kicked his bike's wheel as he rode by him and knocked him off his bike. He fell and landed on a rock, twisting his ankle. The eldest kept riding his bike past him laughing. Well guess how grandma handled that situation? She made him sit in the car for an hour before bringing him home, because the "eldest" wasn't ready to leave yet....!!! Can you believe that? Just the thought of it makes my blood boil.

Every single time he came from "gram's" he was oppositional, disrespectful, and abusive to his siblings. He would come back to us thinking he was "entitled" to get away with everything, like at "gram's house".As a result, we had to work overtime "re-enforcing rules" and consequences. The more time he spent with her, the harder it became to manage his anger. After spending the weekend at gram's one week he came home one day and as soon as he walked in he started messing with the rest of the kids. We asked him to stop and reminded him that it was not ok to tease in our house. He continued to so he had to sit in time out. He then went on to sit and whine and yell for over 20 minutes. He started moving the chair around ,rocking it. We removed him from the chair and made him sit on the staircase. He turned himself around and leaned back so that he could fall down the stairs...He was just out of control!!! I never saw him as defiant, as i did that day. After about 2 hours of this circus act, my DH decided to call mobile response. They came over with the police and escorted him to the hospital-where he remained for 1 week. At that point, my DH decided to stop all contact with the grandmother. Since she was making it impossible for us to handle him. I wasn't thrilled with the idea that i would be stuck dealing with him 24/7 but i knew that her negative influence on him made dealing with him an absolute nightmare! It was impossible for him to make the changes he needed, because he was caught between two households and parents that had opposite parenting styles. Grandmas was his dream come true! Lied, no consequences, bullied whomever he wanted without being held accountable...and got rewarded with toys, and special outings. How could anyone compete with that??? We just couldnt. God knows how hard we tried... Its sad that she claims to "love him soooooooooooooooo much, more than anything!" yet she doesn't see how much damage she has and will continue to do to him by raising him this way.

I just really hope that your SS's mom sees how important this is for her son's sake.

Your in my thoughts and prayers,
-Dcubana
(wow that was a pretty long response! lol.....)

Well I tried reasoning with as to why he can't bully his brother that hadn't worked. He will now be held accountable for all his actions ... was told in our little meeting.

There is a rule and consequence for everything in life. It doesn't matter what it is. how do you open a fridge you pull on the door handle that's a "rule", if you don't use the handle it doesn't open "consequence".

I hope he gets it. That either he can listen and follow the rules of this house or he can follow the rules somewhere else but either way he will follow the rules. Take responsibility for your actions. Being full of excuses still doesn't excuse the behavior.