Do not cave in ...if he sets a date and tells her put it back on him... Thats what daddy wants, talk to daddy blah blah blah... If you cave in she will NEVER go. Your relationship will continue to be good with her vistiting on sundays for dinner. You won't have to "entertain" her mother anymore!!! Depending on what his compromise date is ... go with it. I mean if he says next christmas then say no but if its september. So you start off the school year with her there but she will be gone soon enough.

Do a pro and cons list.. about the living arrangements.

Dana- Poor thing!You sound overwhelmed.....
I think your Dh lied to you about the timeline because he was probably stuck between not wanting to turn his daughter away and not wanting to piss you off.I know its alot easier said than done...but try and focus on the fact that he has taken steps to try to resolve this situation.

This is not going to be easy for him-especially if he has allowed his daughter to manipulate him all his life.He has to stay strong to follow through with what the therapist has recommend that he do.Its very important that you are both on the same page and present a "united front".You can't be a WIMP!Don't feel guilty for wanting whats best for your family and your marriage...Just tell yourself..."I am doing the right thing" over and over until you believe it!Also if you wimp out,how are you going to turn around later on down the road and demand that your husband be "assertive"?All of this will have been a big waste of time.So please stay strong,and don't question your motives for doing this.Have you ever heard of "TOUGH LOVE"....You are not asking for anything unreasonable here.Don't allow her to manipulate you into feeling sorry for her.Thats just the way needy people make excuses for themselves.So when you see the tears-just remmember she's really saying "please don't make me become an independent person and live on my own,don't force me to grow up,just let me live with you guys here forever"

Because the truth is...regardless of the issues you have with her staying there.(and i agree with all of your feelings totally)she needs to spread her wings and fly on her own.If she is going to have you guys to "depend on" then why should she ever have to "grow up?" Ofcourse she is going to cry and get upset...because she's probably not use to the idea of "having to" survive on her own,but She HAS TO LEARN!
Besides,I don't think its good for the other kids to see her crash in your house-without any responsabilities either.
I mean thats what normally happens when we become adults right? Sadly, If her mother didn't raise her to be independant but instead needy and dependent-thats just who she is and she will only change if she "wants" to change.

This is not the time for you and your husband to argue about what happened or what "should have" happened.Just focus on trying to get this whole situation resolved so that you could all go back to your lives.You have to do whats best for your marriage and for the younger kids in the household.

I hope this helps..Keep me posted,you're in my thoughts (((BIg HUG)))

I know this is difficult.

What is going on with SDs life now? Does she have a career? Does she need more schooling? Is she going to see a counselor to help her make some decisions? My daughter is not the brightest child in school. Is it disappointing? Yes. Do I still love her, and want her to make the most of her abilities? Yes. I know you have been through these things with DH before, but for everyone's sanity, try again with DH. I would say do not only agree on a date, but a detailed action plan. The action being on SDs part. The plan should have dates -- finding job or school. Applying for apartment or dorm. If she is to be out by December, then work back from then. I dont think agreeing she should be out by December is sufficient. I think you will be in the same place you are now. I think that the plan she should agree to with Dad should be detailed, like save $150 from each paycheck for apartment deposit. Put in seperate account. Do not touch. And that DH is agreeing to her staying only as long as she stays with plan. Saying she will be saving for apartment is not sufficiently detailed, and will not get you anywhere (IMHO). She should be saving at least what her share of rent or food will be or she will not be able to live on her own. If she can not do that, then she has to either agree to live wiht more roommates or go back to school to get better job. She has to decide that now, and then agree to plan. Not jsut date.

Another "please don't cave in" from me. If she comes crying to you, refer her to her father or the therapist. Don't be drawn in again.

I know it's tough trying to keep everyone's story straight! I did elaborate in my earlier post that she is working w/ Morgan Stanley and making $35K/yr. She did miss a couple of weeks right when she started the job as she was sick (mono) and I have no idea if they give sick pay right off the bat or not.

My asst. makes far less and rents a 1/1 in a nice area for $790/m.

She graduated college in August, took a job w/ Macy's in her college town, then quit because they wanted her to work the day after Thanksgiving....par for the course w/ my steps. Imagine that? Having to work in retail on the BIGGEST shopping day of the year.

She has no addictions, doesn't swear, party to an excess or anything, so on that hand, I'm very lucky. It's just that the boundaries are lacking and she has a strange attachment to my husband. It's not really strange, just weird to me as I am way closer to my mother than my father (who's great,too) so it's just different. She has been better about not running around in a towel, trying to clean up, not barking at the boys too much, etc. I just want to "be", you know? Like if I don't want to cook tonight, not feeling pressured to do so as there's now another adult depending on me. I can always tell DH and the boys I'm picking up take out, but w/ her it becomes an issue or she'll ask for something else and that gets on my nerves! So, that's just one specific and I know it's the small stuff.

Dana

well it sounds like things are actually getting better.

for food, why cant you just say your going for take out, and if she says anything just say, no its Boston Chicken or nothing (or whatever).

I cook almost all nights, but on Wed. when I'm the only one working til 6, I just wish she could start the meal or something. My oldest son's baseball just ended, so DH used to help out w/ practice and then would often pick up Boston Market afterwards if I had been running late. I noticed he always had to stop elsewhere for her. W/ me, on the couple of times I called her to say that I couldn't possibly cook unless we wanted to eat at 9, if I said I was picking up Boston Market, she'd say, "Oh, no thanks." Then, I'd see DH running out to someplace she wanted and it just rubbed me wrong - like fast food wasn't good enough for her or something. She claimed to have eaten at Boston M. a lot, but no more for some reason.

It was just kind of nice at first as she did cook on the first 2 Wed. she lived w/ us. I thought that would have been a nice arrangement. She's off at 4, DH takes Wed. afternoons off, and I often work a long day.

Dana

Oh ok so she works? Omg here i was thinking she was just a total slacker!!Well thats deinetely a plus then.OK here are my 2 cents,i guess this would make it 4 since this is my second post on this thread...lol
You are right about the boundaries.I think she just doesn't want to stop being daddy's little girl.

I think she just has a hard time sharing her dad with another woman,its kind of like when my daughter use to "purposely" sit in between us or try to push my husband away from me if he ever tried to give me a kiss or something.She definetely needs to deal with these issues since this is not normal "adult" behavior.
Your husband also has unintentially allowed her to overstep her boundaries so obviously he is finding it hard to set them now that he sees that it is creating a problem within your marriage.

You are going to have to stand your ground on this and not allow your emotions to cloud your judgement.I know its hard,but its the right thing to do here for everyone.
The fact is: She is an adult,and perfectly capable of holding a job and living on her own!You can't allow her living there to make you feel pressured to cook,or do anything else you wouldn't normally do if she wasn't there.Doing that is just sending mixed messages,she may be thinking you are ok with her being there since you are willing to go "out of your way" to make things easier on her.I'm not saying to treat her like crap so she'll leave.I just mean even when it comes to small stuff,don't go out of your way to accomadate her needs.You are already doing enough by allowing her to stay there and intrude upon your life as it is.Yes,i know she is his daughter.But this is an adult woman,not a child.

Maybe she feels as if her leaving will mean that she will lose her dad? Her attachment to her dad may be just her way of trying to fill her unmet childhood needs of not having a dad around growing up.I think your husband should bring her with him to one of the sessions,that way any fears she may have can be dealt with there.He can still maintain a relationship with her while making his marriage a priority.

dcubana, you raise some excellent points. I couldn't have said it better.

Having a really close relationship with my father and seeing how my husband is sometimes with his children, I maybe can imagine how your husband must feel, vistajpdf. I think the compromise he is asking for is not so much for you but for him. What if he didn't know that his daughter's stay would have become indefinite? What if he thought it wasn't that big of a deal? The compromise is probably just another way of him saying "oops, sorry, didn't quite get it but now I do" and let's find a common ground.

I don't know what the real estate atmosphere is like over there, but I have moved from places where you had to book an apartment months in advance to having to snag something the same day and move in a couple of weeks after signing the lease or anything. But I think that should really define how you approach this, no? That girl/woman must feel overwhelmed at the prospect of independence not having ever really had to deal with it; not that it's an excuse, but it will slow things down for her in terms of becoming pro-active. Maybe, you can find possible options and give them to her father to show her so you can stay out of it and it's not Dana-is-trying-to-kick-me-out type thing. But once you say "1 month" or whatever it is, all you have to do is help your hubby and his daughter both get their act together.

My last thought is, be mindful of emotional bullying... I am trying to give your step-daughter the benefit of the doubt, only you really know your daily interactions; but many times people learn to obtain things by throwing tantrum, crying, getting madder and louder than the other person... and that's really when you have to stand your ground.

Oh, one last last thought, going back to your other post just a second: the therapist your husband has been seeing isn't obligated to hear "your side of the story". S/he probably realizes that there are two sides to every story. If you do end up seeing him, however, it is common practice for s/he to be allowed to bring up things that were said in private sessions. Ask your husband what kind of "school" does the therapist come from (Gestalt, Freudian, transactional analysis, cognitive therapy...); that will give you a better gauge as to what to expect from the work done with your husband.

You sound like a terrific mama, step and bio; I wish you all the best.

My last patient (recently retired nurse, grief counselor, cancer patient psychologist) today gave the therapist a huge thumbs up, so I'm quite confident in her ability. I think DH left it where he would talk to his DD and then call for a follow up appt.

I know my DH didn't think his DD living here would be a big deal to me. I've suffered quite a past w/ his grown kids - been slighted, snubbed, taken advantage of more times than a person should take in a lifetime, let alone w/in a couple of years from teenagers. I've been figuratively slapped in the face repeatedly, and after the way my SS has shafted me on the student loan I cosigned for him, manipulated his father over and over (I nearly left over that kid - demands for cars, DH lying to me, sneaking off to give in to his son's wishes, then having the guy basically divorce himself from us), and the condition in which my stepDDs always left my home, I really don't think my DH expected me to jump for joy. The SS lived w/ us in H.S. and inbetween college breaks for years. The SDs stayed w/ us during the summers, breaks, and always came w/ a tribe of friends. We lived in our office for several years while we were building this house and it wasn't comfortable. But, I was forced to share my bathroom w/ usually 5 other girls for 3 weeks each Christmas and all summer long. They were always complete slobs, and now that I'm in my dream house, I definitely didn't want that behavior coming here. I don't know what the deal w/ BM is - either they don't want her, she won't have them, she no longer gets CS, who knows? Regardless, I've done my time and I'm afraid I'm at the end of my rope. (SD is much better than she was back then, but it's still not fun.)

I think my stepdd wants to be the wife. I'm somewhat kidding. But, I cook every night. She watched me the first few weeks, then took over my role towards her dad. It's weird - she'll jump up (like I do for everyone) to get him salt, say, "Dad, I think you need a little more sauce.." and serve it, comment on his glass needing more ice, etc. It's kind of nice, like she's considerate of him, maybe trying to help me not get up more than I do already, but she'll never refill a glass for the boys, me, or give us a little more anything. I can't adequately describe it in words here. She just seems to want to be the wife of the house, and in the evenings, she'll say, "Dad, come work out w/ me and we'll watch American Idol." I know it sounds trivial, but I'm left cleaning the kitchen and she's asking Daddy to work out w/ her in our weight room and watch TV. Gees, I wouldn't mind watching a little TV every now and then, KWIM?

I think you may need to definetely set bounderies here,not only with your sd but with your husband as well.
The doors of my house have locks. I not only have the right to lock my doors, but I have the duty to protect my family from thieves and dangerous people. Yet, even with the doors locked, my home is occasionally invaded by telemarketers who interrupt whatever I'm doing with the hope of making a sale. At other times, my girlfriends may call and poison the atmosphere with endless whining about how unfair life is.

Yes, life would be unfair if we were "forced" to listen to someone whose only purpose in life is to complain. Thankfully, life is not unfair. We have power. We can define what we are willing to put up with. We can establish what is and what is not acceptable to us. We don't have to listen to every call. We can say, "Sorry, I'm busy now. Thanks for calling. Talk to you later. Good-bye," and hang up.

In a word, we can set boundaries. Boundaries don't separate us from life- they "enrich it". After all, boundaries give us the freedom to become the person we wish to be. Some people however, are afraid to speak up. They are afraid of being rejected and losing someone they care about. They are willing to give up all that they can become in order to hold on to the little that they now have. It is like a tadpole refusing to become a frog or a caterpillar refusing to become a butterfly. It just doesn't make any sense.

If we wish to be in charge of our destiny, we have to learn how to speak up and tell others what is unacceptable to us. You can start enriching your life today, by setting boundaries.I know from expierience that this can be difficult,but with the help of therapy-i can say that i've been able to make life alot easier for myself.
What i learned in therapy was that there are four steps to setting bounderies.You begin by saying, "WHEN YOU ..." (state what is unacceptable),then "I FEEL ..." (describe your feelings),'I WANT ....." (describe your expectations), 4) "IF YOU ~ I WILL ...." (describe the consequences of ignoring your request).Like whenever i would say something that my x- husband disagreed with, he rolled his eyes and sighed, dismissing my opinion. I decided to set a boundary and told him, "Whenever you disagree with me, you roll your eyes and sigh, as if you are exasperated by something stupid I've said."

it is important to be specific. The person you are dealing with is not a mind reader and cannot be sure of what is troubling you unless you spell it out. Note that i did not say, "When you belittle me." (that is too vague), but said, "When you roll your eyes and sigh." By being specific, i not only made sure he understood me, but i was helping him become aware of his behavior, which may have been automatic and done without any thinking on his part.

I then continued by saying, "WHEN YOU do that, I FEEL hurt. When you dismiss my opinions like that, I FEEL as if I have nothing of value to say to you." Steps 1 and 2 are not about blaming. They are merely factual statements. i wasn't accusing him of being coldhearted. I was just expressing my feelings.Having said that,i went on to tell him:"I want to be in a loving, caring, supportive relationship. I expect to be appreciated and admired. When he treat me with disrespect, I feel like we are being driven apart. So, from now on, when I express an opinion, I WANT you to stop rolling your eyes and sighing as if I were a jerk. I WANT you to listen to what I have to say, consider it, and respect my right to express an opinion without being laughed at. I don't always agree with what you have to say, but I respect your right to have another opinion. At the very least, you can grant me the same courtesy."

A new boundary cannot be established unless it is enforced. The role of the last step is to announce the consequences of refusing to comply with the request being made. It isn't always necessary to announce the consequences to the person you're dealing with. However, it is essential that you choose the consequences in your own mind and commit to carrying them out if necessary.In my case, my purpose wasn't to antagonize or threaten my husband. I merely wished to correct his unacceptable behavior.But after asking him to stop this several times i had to take things to the next level.A boundary without enforcement is not a boundary, so i had to announce the consequences. Although there wasn't much i could do and say to change his behavior,i told him "I asked you to stop rolling your eyes and sighing whenever I express an opinion that differs from yours and you have refused to stop. So, I have decided to spend less time at home and start taking night school classes where I can improve myself and make new friends. If I cannot find the respect I need and deserve at home, I will find it outside the home. I hope you understand." Eventually i got tired of "setting bounderies" and enforcing consequences-i felt as if i had a child instead of a man for a husband.Sadly,he was unwilling to make the changes nessesary to preserve our marriage and i was unwilling to be his "mom" for the rest of my life.

Everyone resists change, so if you try to set a boundary with someone that ridicules you, they will probably try to brush it aside by saying something like, "I was just joking. You're too sensitive." But don't accept that explanation. Immediately reply, "You may have been joking, BUT I AM NOT. If you continue to ridicule me, I will find another friend."
That may seem harsh,but if someone is being hurtful they don't deserve to be treated with any "courtesy" if you ask me...

You are not less important than others, so stand up for yourself. The other side of the coin is, others are not less important than you, so respect and honor their boundaries. Rewording the point I wish to make, you are not here to live up to the expectations of others, but neither are they here to live up to yours. Seek balance or the middle path. That is, don't be passive, allowing others to step all over you. Also, don't be aggressive, bullying your way through life. Rather, be assertive, defending your rights and the rights of others. The purpose of setting boundaries is not to be separated from others, but to gain the freedom and strength to better serve them. It is only after we learn how to protect,honor, and love ourselves that we will be able to do the same for others.

Hope this helps.=)