As a mom and a Pediatric Clinical Nurse Specialist, I'd say psych evaluation. Period. Maybe it is all attention seeking, but why? Clearly someone needs to get inside her head and figure her out.

Good luck.

I'm with Nicksmom. A little compassion wouldn't hurt either. Even if it is purely attention-seeking, there is something going on that she is either scared to verbalize or just can't.

I did pick up from your post that it seems like the only time Dad gives her some attention is when she vomits. I would try to make a point to give her some alone time with Dad and push him to take care of her when she visits. If she is not comfortable with you and you with her, there isn't going to be a solution at this point by forcing the two of you into a relationship.

Oh, and while I was typing the above I remembered I read an article last week (I'll start to google for it) about a boy who had some of the same symptoms starting very young. At 6/7 he was starting to say that he wanted to die. It turned out to be bi-polar. Let me look for the article.

Hugs, Pseudo. What a tough spot.

This is a pretty long list of things she does for attention! What do all her psychologists say? Or does bm switch them too frequently?

I would say even if this is all attention seeking behavior, it is way too much! She needs some kind of help.

And not wanting to go to birthday parties? Or drive-in movies? Thats a little much for her age--those are fun activities!

http://www.newsweek.com/id/137517/page/1

Check this out.

Giggle....
I saw that same article on MSN I think??

I completely understand what you're going through. My FSD is the exact same way. Especially with the calling the mom thing.

My FSD came to visit the last week of April after having just moved (the month before) out of state. So she's only here for 2 nights and both nights she stays up until between 2 and 4 in the morning texting her mom. She sees her mom every day! We have plans the next day and she doesn't want to wake up. We haven't seen her in a month! What does she possibly have to text her mom about at 2 AM? It totally made my blood boil. I never said anything, because it's not my place.

The calling of the other parents is a tough issue, but, at least with my DS (none of the rules apply to FSD), he has hours between which he can use the phone. He is not allowed to make any phone calls after 9 PM. We explained this to BD and he understands that we're not telling him he can't call but we are just trying to make sure it doesn't interfere with bed time.

FSD did the vomitting thing, too, but only once. She said it's because her mom said she gets car sick. In all the times we had taken road trips before, she had never gotten car sick. So a 10 hour trip turned into about 16 because we kept having to pull over for her to throw up. At first I was areally worried. Even scared for her. I worried until the one time I told my BF I would help her and I jumped out of the car instead of her dad and she said "oh, no, I need daddy". Then he did what he did every time which was hold her and snuggle her and kiss her. And every time we had to stop, he would buy her something. It was a different stuffed animal from whatever gas station we stopped at. Once it was even a ball cap. Then we arrived at the relatives house (who hadn't seen her in like 6 years and my DS and I had never met) and they just did everything to make her comfortable. They said "oh you poor thing" and "I'm so sorry your not feeling well" and my favorite "can I get you anything to make you feel better?". She was totally eating that up. My DS and I were left out while they all tended to the poor sick 9 year old. Then, of course, the next day she had to milk it a little more at breakfast when she says "I just don't think my tummy feels like eating oatmeal". "Oh well honey what do you think your tummy can handle? We'll make you anything you want" Sahe was totally eating up all the attention.

But, good news, the vomitting thing stopped and she no longer craves negative attention. Although we still have issues (and I'm sure we won't always see eye-to-eye) we have had generally very pleasureable visits with her. Even while she was living here.

I'm sure the emotional thing will fade away. FSD is 13 now and she's calmed down a lot. My advice is a lot of patience and removing yourself from frustrating situations as much as possible.

Oh Dear, I would absolutely insist your DH get her to a child phsychologist immediately and agree in your shoes wouldn't take her alone without your DH. For whatever reason it just ends up being a lot of trauma for everyone involved..

I don't know what to think! I would be very frustrated too, it seems to be getting worse not better. Just think how it'll be in a few yr.s if she doesn't get some psychological help? Hope you can get your DH to take her soon.

The throwing up thing... my middle son would do that. He would start crying if I scolded him and cry so hard that he'd throw up. I'll probably get grief for this, but I told him, at the tender age of four, that if he makes himself throw up, HE is cleaning it up. He stopped crying and looked at me. Really? That was after the third or fourth episode and he never had to clean it up, he didn't make himself throw up while crying again. He's almost 19 now and a great kid. Wasn't traumatized by it. He's embarrassed now that we joke about some of the things they used to do.

My SD is also 9 and she is constantly whining that she can't do this or can't do that (tie her shoes, comb her hair) and she'll wait for daddy to do it. She did that this last weekend while her grandma (DH's mom) was there and grandma got all over both of them. If she wants daddy's attention, it should be 'after' she does those things herself.

I still don't get the phone access at any time. We'll have SD call her mom either after school or after dinner if she has time, but she's not going to be calling anyone in the middle of the night, not even mom. If she's doing that and it's disturbing anyone else, the reason I'd give her... it's rude to call people after bedtime and talking on the phone disturbs others in your house.. like you. I'm not giving you grief for taking the phone, I don't think at 9 years old she should have the phone in the middle of the night.

I also think some of the things she's complaining about are things that can be ignored.. like dark stool after pepto. Just tell her "you're fine. That's normal." instead of making a trip to the store for juice.

My SD9 also would start crying about her cat that died when she was 3 if she is upset and doesn't want to talk about the 'real' reason she's upset. Sometimes I think she doesn't know why she's upset and just feels like crying. When we ask her what's wrong, she'll start talking about her cat or people that died that she didn't really know or wasn't close to.

I'd definitely get her assessed and a good therapist. (btw, when I was about 10, I wrote a will and thought about how I'd kill myself by jumping out of my bedroom window on the second floor. I never told anyone about that so obviously, I didn't get any help or therapy at the time. I didn't know at the time why I was unhappy, but looking back now, it was around the time (a year or so after) I was molested by our neighbor)

are you talking about that issue in newsweek about bipolar kids? SD sounds like she needs psych eval ASAP. even if she just seeks attention this is not normal for 9 year old. she needs way more than a regular therapy. i would take her to a psychitarist and explain what happens and see what dr. says. this is not just a regular attention seeking. better be safe than sorry. attention or diagnosis, but it si not up to parebnts to decide at this point. it is up to a professional. either mom or dad MUST take care to a doctor.

How about a little compassion?

It sounds to me that if her father would pay attention to her when she is not sick or acting out, then she wouldn't be doing these things to seek his attention.

Also, there must be some emotional problems with this child for her to be talking about wanting to die. I think that it would be a good idea to take her to a councilor. I've never heard of a child who could vomit on demand.

Hey finedreams, yes it was the article in Newsweek. I thought it was interesting. I mentioned it to pseudo not only because a few of the behaviors were similar, but because it details the many trips to the Dr.s, switching dr.s that Max's parents went through. Pseudo voiced she was frustrated and thought Mom was shopping for a diagnosis, I thought this might be of interest to her.

I'm not sure what to say about a psychiatric evaluation... Maybe she does have OCD, or is having trouble adjusting to something... Or maybe she's just being a sh!7ball. Either way, it probably wouldn't hurt to have her see a counselor. I'd suggest a counselor over a psychiatrist because they typically focus more on the behavior and less on a pathology. If they see a pathology, they should refer you to a psychiatrist, but if they just see a kid with some troubles, they'll address the behaviors.
I'll talk about A__'s attention seeking behavior and what we do about it a little further down.

Raek, kids can ABSOLUTELY make themselves vomit!! If I were to really try, I bet I could do it, and I'm an adult (I took a drama class as an undergrad, where one day we had to practice looking and sounding like we were vomiting. I felt truly nauseated after that exercise).
Some family friends had a kid (he's an adult now) who threw up every night. They'd put him to bed, and he'd promptly puke. This started right after he was genuinely sick (a bug was going around his kindergarten class) and he discovered that if you throw up on your bedding, you get up again while Mom changes your sheets. This went on for about a month on a daily basis and about a year on an occasional basis. He was particularly eager to try this trick on babysitters and grandparents, who might not see through his devious little plan. My sister once was babysitting him and called home to my mom in a flurry "He's making puke sounds! What do I do?" "Oh, his mom didn't tell you? He's faking it. Put a garbage can in his bed and tell him he can wash it out in the morning if he has to throw up. That's what his mom does."

I do agree with Raek a little bit though... How much attention does Dad pay to her when she's acting "normal"? This can be a bit of a problem at our place, so we're trying to find a balance between playing into attention-seeking behavior and stopping attention-seeking behavior. I'll give you some examples from our house:

I know sometimes my FDH doesn't pay much attention to A__ when he's being "good" so A__ starts acting up to get his dad to pay attention to him. For example, A__ will be quietly colouring or watching TV, and then will decide he is bored of that and wants to play a game with his dad (which is fine). FDH says "But you were playing by yourself just fine two seconds ago. Go do that again." A__, wisely/deviously starts acting up so that his dad can't say that and HAS to do something with him. I see how this works, plain as day, and try to nip it by encouraging FDH to go ask A__ if he would like to play a game while A__ is fine on his own, and by doing it myself too. I also suggested to FDH that when A__ does that, he say "I'll set the timer for five minutes, so I can finish up what I was doing. Please go back to colouring/clean up your mess/go get changed/etc during that time and then we will play in a few minutes" to separate the acting up from the interaction. Both ways are pretty effective.

If A__ has multiple "nightmares" (which are sometimes real and sometimes faked) in one night, FDH will attend to the first one or two, and then I go to the next one. This plan came into effect when A__ got FDH up about every half hour one night, claiming he saw monsters, but then as soon as FDH was there, he wanted to talk about video games/the cat/school/hockey cards/soccer/etc... If A__ validly had a nightmare or really thinks he saw monsters, I'm perfectly good to cuddle with and calm down. If he was just looking for attention from FDH, he says "No, I'll be OK Ceph, you can go back to bed." When he looks for attention in the night, I make sure to encourage a little extra "guy time" the next day to fulfill whatever it is that is making A__ want extra attention.

A__ always wants to go out to eat. This is partly because FDH is not much of a cook, but mostly because FDH has to sit at the table with A__ at a restaurant. FDH didn't grow up eating together at a table, so he doesn't really join A__ at the table when A__ eats. He'll get A__ some food and leave the room to do something else. Well, obviously, A__ doesn't like this so he doesn't finish his meal, gets food all over himself, spills things, etc. Can't blame A__ for not liking it, I'd be p!ssed off too! But he gets attention: "Daaaaaaaaad, I spilled my drink" so FDH comes back to give him a cloth to clean it up, or whatever. I've convinced FDH to join A__ in the kitchen for most meals, whether he's at the table, or doing dishes at the sink, just stay in the room with him while he eats to keep him company, and he eats properly.

We're still trying to figure out the balance... And certainly don't have all the answers, but the meat and potatoes of what we're doing is to stop attention-seeking behaviors before they happen by providing plenty of positive attention, and not provide the sort of attention he wants when they do happen.

Mondays meltdown with SD throwing up wanting to kill her self ... was because hubby "made" her play games with him and stay downstairs with him ... calling her mother "complaining" daddy won't let me go upstairs daddy won't let me watch tv.. daddy is making me play with him...

Pay attention when she is not acting out or wanting attention ... when she isn't I'll let you know ...

Ashley reading your story reminded me of a SD last summer the kids were going to be spending the night with grandma camping as we are about to leave SD starts with my belly .... grandma falling all over her SD came home with us.

I do not believe she would intentionally hurt herself.

That's fine you're normal is followed by ... Tell me the TRUTH repeating the same phrase ... its normal you're fine tell me the truth

Just like taking her temp ... if its not 98.6 she wants to go to the hospital. 97.5 98.8 falls to the floor because she is dying. We have done the yup 98.6 you're fine then she DEMANDS to see the thermometer shut it off and on quick then she demands to take it again ... "it's broken" now so we can't take temps anymore.

She saw therapist again yesterday no clue what was said or what was not said ... but hubby told mom she should mention the wanting to die info ... before SD tells it to someone and they put her in a psych ward.

Not concerned with the switching counselors looking for diagnosis ... just that none have given a reason for why she is doing what she is doing .... other than she just worries too much ... doesn't sound like a diagnosis to me ... and it still continues 3 years later.

3 weeks ago Mom called hubby because SD doesn't get to spend time with hubby so mom's solution is an extra day at her house ... so the solution to not getting dad's attention is spending more time with mom. anyone else see anything wrong in that solution ... why wouldn't she keep the boys the extra day? to give SD a chance to spend time with dad...

So basically I should stay out of it ... let the parents work it out .... when she is doing all that to go away ... frustrates me because I feel like she thinks she is going to get us "in trouble" by telling on us ... does that make sense?

even if she just a drama queen, it does not sound normal for such a young kid. if i would not have my own kids, i would assume she is just acting out ir it is not a big deal. but I am thinking that if my kid would act up this strange, i would be very alarmed.

ceph, she is already in therapy, but apprently it does not help, so next stage is to go to the next level.

and there are children as young as 6 commiting suicide or hurting themselves (even if for attention). mom and dad have to address this with the speacialist to rule out serious trouble. girl sounds too messed up for a 9-year-old.

you are right pseudo, it is mom's and dad's job to take care of it.

"... when she isn't I'll let you know..."

Wow, that bad?? Yowzers.
I thought A__ was giving us a hard time by pulling his stunts for a few minutes a couple times a weekend.

Have the counselors tried to help her learn to NOT worry so much? Tips and tricks to help her stop? How you counsel a kid and how you counsel an adult are different, but I saw a counselor for a bit this winter because I was blaming myself for my health problems. I knew this, and knew I didn't like it, but I needed help to get over it. She gave me all sorts of tips and ideas, and explained how to identify the root of the problem. If they aren't helping her with tips and tricks to not worry so much, then move on to a new one, but if she's snatched out before they have a chance, then maybe encourage DH to leave her with the same person for awhile.

Yup, it makes sense to me that you're worried you'll get "in trouble" for this stuff. The bedtime puke kid's grandma was APPALLED and FURIOUS that her daughter was sticking a garbage can in bed with her grandson when "the poor dear had an upset tummy." This caused some major fights between them... Until GM babysat a few times and he did it to her more than once.
Even thinking back to the beetle trap incident, SD told the school nurse that chemicals in her bedroom are making her sick. The nurse, rightfully, is concerned that she's sleeping in a toxic wasteland. You guys wind up looking like the bad guys, even though SD was totally out to lunch.
I'd be worried too!

Could it be specifically MOMMY's attention SD is wanting? Since BioMom seems to give attention for medical issues and pays little attention otherwise? (Or am I mis-remembering?)

Also, there IS a psych term for 'worrying too much' and it's 'generalized anxiety disorder', and frankly, that is what popped into my mind while reading your original post. There are just too many extreme behaviors for things to still qualify as 'normal'...

If she's been seeing a counselor for three years, there must be some diagnosis written down on an insurance form. What does it say?

this is very possible! she seems to be calling mom every time something goes wrong, she does not call dad with these problems while at moms, does she? ha. could it be she wants more attention from mom...in any case, therapist gets paid but apparently does not accomplish much.

I would definitely be alarmed about her behavior, particularly her saying that she wants to kill herself. Her anxiety level seems incredibly high, and I think she needs to be evaluated by a psychiatrist yesterday. I don't think this is something that can be ignored.

Children and teenagers should not be given aspirin or other medications containing salicylates, such as pepto-Bismol, according to the National Reye's Syndrome Foundation, http://www.reyessyndrome.org/aspirin.htm .

Pseudo,

I'm not sure that TOS & I have agreed on anything...on this thread, we do. Regardless of her motivation, regardless of her "diagnosis," this child seems to be in profound distress. Kids exhibiting behaviors similar to those you have described often respond positively to the treatment modality of Play Therapy. Folks who specialize in this treatment modality will often work with other family members in a sub-specialty known as filial play therapy. From what you have shared, I suspect your SD and the family might experience positive benefit from working with someone who has expertise in this school of therapy. You may be able to find someone by going to the website of the Association for Play Therapy --- www.a4pt.org
I would search for a therapist listed as RPT& RPT-S (registered play therapist and registered play therapist-supervisor). The criteria for becoming registered as a play therapist through this organization is surprisingly rigorous, so if you find someone with the above credentials, I think you can have faith in their skill and experience....or at least your SD's parents can have faith in them!

Good luck!

Pseudo, my SD used to exhibit much, much milder forms of this behavior. She was also the type to think a 99.0 fever is cause for the ER, and a red bump on her arm is a life threatening disease. She would also suddenly miss people/animals long gone, or become upset over a friend who moved years prior that she never spoke of.
These traits were discussed at length with her counselor, and he said basically what I suspected - it's the owie theory. If your young child falls and superficially scrapes up a knee he looks for your reaction. If you gasp run to cuddle him he will then get upset and cry. If you smile and say 'boy you are tough, way to shake it off' he likely will and go on about his day. In our case, mom is a gasper and dad and I shake it off. Funny that the runny nose because the flu and the bump became a contagious rash when she went to mom's for visitation. SD is no dummy - the only time she could really get her mom's attention was to be ill or have a tragedy.

Once her mom had another baby all the illnesses and tragedies suddenly stopped. She came home once telling me that she got up once in the middle of the night because she had a stomach ache and her mom yelled at her to go back to bed, she had just got the baby to sleep and needed her sleep too. Truly, her health 'improved 200% after that visitation. She's still a bit of an alarmist, but now she's a teenager and drama queen is the thing to be.

SD would get stomach aches when ever something upset her, to the point I did take her in to look for acid reflux, an ulcer, tumors . . . anything?? After we documented our lives to see if they centered around a food, something at home/school, being in a certain car . . . we saw that they usually happened the night before a visit to moms, or the night of a terse call from mom. They did also happen before tests, and if she was fighting with a friend. Her Dr. gave it a general diagnosis of anxiety and said to try Tums and such. I think it's been about a year since the last run of them . . . pretty much once the baby was a couple months old they stopped.

I say all this because I want you to know your SD isn't alone - I think there are lots of children who may use this tactic to get attention . . . IF IT IS A TACTIC!
My SD never spoke of harming herself. That is enough to alarm me and cause me to think things need to be stepped up to find a way to help her. If attention from dad isn't what she wants, maybe it is from mom? Maybe she just doesn't know what she wants and is trying everything she can think of to find it. I don't think you, mom or dad will be able to solve this one, and I think getting her to someone that can ASAP is in order.

I'll be thinking of you both.

"... was because hubby "made" her play games with him and stay downstairs with him ... calling her mother "complaining" daddy won't let me go upstairs daddy won't let me watch tv.. daddy is making me play with him..."

This is sort of what I am going through with SD this last week. She has started to complain about everything. If I tell her to ride her bike, she wants to take a nap. If I tell her to take a nap, she wants to play outside. Because she's been having an issue with food (sneaking it), she is not allowed to stay in the house all by herself. IF I'm out in the yard, I'll tell her to ride her bike. She acts like I am punishing her by 'making' her ride her bike. Then we go in the house and I tell her to play in her room for a while and she whines to dad that I won't let her go outside.

So far, we are ignoring it because I think she's trying to get me in trouble for 'making' her do things or not letting her do thing, the same way she was complaining about me to her mom. I think her mom isn't paying too much attention to her complaining anymore (she's got other things on her mind) and DH is on to her. He did snap at me, like I was being mean to her, once because she was whining that I wouldn't let her watch a movie. I told him what she was doing and that no matter what I told her to do, she wants to do the opposite. I suggested that he can come home early and deal with her if he wants to play her game. He admits he was tired and her whining got to him. She tries to play him too. She hasn't done it today, but then again, we were busy all day. Well, I take that back. When we came home for a few minutes, I told her to ride her bike for the few minutes because I didn't want her to get all comfy in the house because we were leaving. She said, "do I really HAVE to?" So, I said "no, you can play with your scooter, skateboard or just hang around outside until we go". She went and rode her bike.

I know SD is on the extreme end of "normal"... with regards to the vomiting and attention "getting" technics.

But with reading some of your posts seems she might of dipped into abnormal because she does most of the tactics some of you have described.

Sweeby ... I am leaning toward your reasoning for attention because in my SM vision it makes sense ... mom has a new BF well bf of 6 months and in the last 9 months she has had some changes visitation change, mom not working, the BF, worries less about mom being alone because mom has the bf, but still worries about mom's bills, because she has to pay daddy(this from the children),

Yesterday, I got home from work she was sitting on the couch coloring watching tv very content. Said a few off comments to hubby ... about money .... mommy doesn't have any, its not fair she has to pay you, she shouldn't have to get money from BF to pay you, how come when you need money you always take my moms, (she was with mom for 2 days) mom doesn't have any money she needs to buy groceries, hubby's comments back were basically ... you shouldn't be worried about money, mommy always figures out what to do, I don't have any money either I have to buy groceries and pay bills but you have everything you need... she says I need a new pair of shoes nothing matches my dress. ::shaking head::... I asked her how many pairs of shoes do you have ?? the boys said she has more than most women!!! EEKS I say ... maybe if your parents didn't buy you so many pairs shoes they would have some money.

So now its 7:45 and SD starts with a belly ache hubby asks whats going on? she starts bawling... I need to talk to my mom its almost bedtime and I haven't talked to her all day!!!! hubby said you don't need to cry just ask if you can call your mom. She said Can I call my mom? he said sure here's the phone ... 20 minutes later she hands him the phone and heads to bed "night daddy". ::shaking my head again::

IMA ... All my SC do that if I make them "go outside" like I am punishing them ... you might think I was sending them to their rooms ... the way they act, I get home from work and say "its too nice to be inside go out and play" omg they hate me, I am so mean, its too hot out, the list goes on ... I did this april vacation week "made" them go outside and play till lunch time was awful acted like I was pulling out their eyes ... the next day it was pouring out the boys were out playing in the rain and mud.... ::shaking head::

They have gotten into the habit of saying, Can I go to joe schmoes house no I won't be inside we are going to be outside .... ok you can go... Rule: If you are just going to sit in the house you might as well stay home... :)

"I would definitely be alarmed about her behavior, particularly her saying that she wants to kill herself. Her anxiety level seems incredibly high, and I think she needs to be evaluated by a psychiatrist yesterday. I don't think this is something that can be ignored."

Amen.

Although it does sound like mom is at the very root of a lot of this (google Munchausen's Syndrome, & I hope I've spelled it right), the daughter is at risk.

Kids don't have a real concept of the finality of suicide.

One of my dear friends lost her 14-year-old daughter when the girl made a melodramatic "statement":

Mary learned that Teresa was seeing a 17-year-old boy, & she limited their "together time".

Then she found out the "boy" was really 23!

She ran him off & told Teresa she was never to see him again.

One morning Mary went to the barn & found Teresa hanging from a rafter.

She had left a note-
"If I can't have my own friends, I might as well be dead."

Teresa wasn't a hysterical nut of a girl:

She just didn't have a grasp of how final death really is.

Has this kid possibly been exposed to too many adult issues by Biomom? The only reason I ask is you said something about her voicing concerns about mom not having money and having to pay child support.

I have heard that when children are exposed to too many adult issues they may become stressed and anxious all the time. Is this a possibilitie with your step daughter?

"I have heard that when children are exposed to too many adult issues they may become stressed and anxious all the time."

This is very true. My SD is a worrier as I've said, and she would worry about things she really knew nothing about - "Mommy has a mortgage payment due and she can't make it because she has to pay Daddy." "Really, SD? What is a mortgage payment?" "I don't know, but Mommy was mad and it's not fair." They don't necessarily worry about an issue - although Mommy being 'so lonely' was understood - but they worry because adults spill their problems over to their children. They worry because they are empathetic and want their parents happy - happy parent definitely equals happy child in this case. "When Mommy is happy she is really fun, but when she is mad she is really mean."

Sadly, though mom was told by my DH and a therapist to knock the crap off she wouldn't. I honestly think she enjoyed upsetting her daughter because it showed her that her daughter cared. When she was feeling insecure because of me or alone because she was without a man she would bring SD into her misery because we all know misery loves company.