wow! Take a deep breath and maybe focus on preparing the soft place for the kids to land when 'tornado mommy' finishes this rampage.

So sorry for your kids!

"2 of her "babies" are teenagers"

I once went to a Super Bowl party where the beer had been flowing for a while, & one guy was sitting with a group of people, literally crying.

He was overcome with longing for his 2 children, whose evil mother had taken away from him when they lost their home because he (dad) had been in jail for his 7th DWI & therefore unable to help with the bills.

She divorced him & re-married.

While he was in jail (how unfair!), she'd presented him with papers for the children to be adopted by her new husband, & he signed, feeling like she was coercing him because she could have filed charges for non-payment of child support.

He was literally weeping in his beer:
The dirty rats had *changed the children's last name!*

I asked him how old his children were...
& he stopped, & thought, & said, ah, they must be 8 or 9 & 11 or 12 by now.

Oh great, MIA parents of both sexes. It boggles the mind.

Oh mom2, I know how you feel. When the mommy need hits and these absentee mothers want to see their 'babies' (and why is it these moms always refer to them as babies? Because that's the last time the really cared for them?) it never ends well. You aren't alone in the wish they would just crawl under a rock or fade away for good. I think Ima is right, sadly. All you can truly do is prepare yourself mentally to deal with the pieces you know you will have to pick up. Honestly though, with the older two, you might do a bit of subtle forewarning, or at least letting them know your fears for their little hearts. I'm sure they share the same fears, even if they won't voice them.

Can you make the visit short and sweet? Perhaps the oldest will react like my SD does now and tell her mom just what she thinks of her? Mom suddenly isn't so big on visits when SD is so 'abusive'.

Hugs to you, hon. Be strong.

I'm so sorry Mom2 --
This is just rotten to the core, and it's the kids who get hurt.

Yeah, I'd forward the kids. Don't lead them to expect anything, given her no-show record, but maybe let them know you heard from her?

Oh Sylvia I would love to hear the excuses she gives people on why she is always away from her "babies" because DH has always been overly accommodating to her seeing them. He has allowed her ins and outs because he never wanted to keep them from her, or ever have her tell them how he would not allow her to see them. He also never wanted to walk into court and have a judge angry at him for not allowing any visitation, even though he has sole custody and on paper she got no visitation. Really how does a parent explain away not being active in their childs lives? I hope people look at her like the piece of trash she is!

JNM we had the same idea as you and actually warned the older 2 today. We told them their bm was moving back and wanted to take them Saturday. (BM called back today to say she could not keep them overnite because they are living with relatives and have a house-full already). We told them it will be for a few hours and they were ok with it. Both girls have told their bm off over the last year for her disappearing acts. They both are resentful, though younger sd is more likely to cave in bm's presence and just be so happy bm actually wants to see them. I know that older sd is skeptical and is not jumping into this with her whole heart, I wish I could say the same for younger sd. I know that she will again be destroyed by this woman and her selfishness of popping into their lives to ease her guilt and then leaving when she feels better herself.

As for ss we did not discuss this with him. When bm shows up we will see his reaction. Last time bm came after being gone for over a year ss did not want to go with her so we are assuming this time will be the same and we do not want him fretting over it all night tonite and tomorrow. We would rather have him be surprised when she shows up and act as he will at that moment instead of stressing beforehand.

Wish us luck because I just have an awful feeling.

Is it bad to say that I secretly hope the girls give bm heck the whole visit and that ss refuses to go so bm will see what she has done to them? Maybe it would push her back off into non-contact and our lives would go back to normal....this last year or so while she was gone was really a wonderful time for us all. The kids finally got over the initial pain and were enjoying their daily lives.

If BM is back and is toxic for the children ... why are they allowed to see her at all? If BM wants back in, then rules have to be established. It's called Family Therapy. Sure ... you can see the kids ... at the therapist's office and a quick ice cream afterward.

Sorry you have to deal with this BS.
What does your husband have to say about it?

mom2emall,

Secretly hope all you want but I will publicly cry out:

I HOPE EVERY CHILD THAT HAS HIS/HER HEART RIPPED OUT BY THE ONE (OR TWO) PEOPLE IN THE WORLD THAT IS BIOLOGICALLY PROGRAMMED TO LOVE AND PROTECT THEM... FINALLY REALIZES THEIR STRENGTH TO STAND UP & THROW IT BACK IN THEIR FACE!!!

Learning to be a survivor instead of allowing yourself to be a victim is the only way to empower oneself. These children need to be given the tools to empower themselves against the carelessly selfish people that are too irresponsible to live up to their obligations.

"These children need to be given the tools to empower themselves against the carelessly selfish people that are too irresponsible to live up to their obligations."

Very wise words Ima --
But does anyone even really know what those tools are?

Seems to me it would be some version of "BioMom is broken. It's sad, but that's the way it is. It's not about you at all -- it's just her brokenness..."
But how can you tell a kid "It's not about you" when really it should be?

The sad thing is, I think even if you tell the kids "it's not about you" until they really see it for themselves they won't believe it. We danced around SD's mom's behavior for years, never putting the 'selfish witch' tag on it directly. It wasn't until SD came to us with the proverbial light bulb over her head and said "my mom is the most selfish, self centered woman I know" that we felt it ok to look at her and say yep! Now we are at a point that we speak pretty freely - we try not to instigate a 'mom bash' but SD knows she can come to us and we will honestly say "yes, we agree it was pretty crappy that your mom brought you home early Christmas Eve so she could get to her boyfriend's sooner." We will also tell her when she might be leaning toward that same selfish behavior and expecting too much. From the change in SD I think it makes her feel much better to be 'in the know' and finally get it with her mom - she's past blaming herself and puts the blame squarely where it belongs. She seems so much more . . . free, for lack of a better word. Not to say it doesn't still hurt her, but she has stopped trying to figure out what she did wrong and realized it's just her mom can't see that she (BM) has ever done anything wrong. So though mom blames SD (and us) for the state of their relationship, we all know the truth.

Sorry for the tangent! I guess the point I'm trying to make is you can prep them a bit, but until they are ready to really see the situation for what it is you will be back in this spiral each time the mombeast rears her ugly head. I wish I could tell you something different, but I can't. Have faith in your skids though. I bet they are wiser than you think . . . It was just a month or two before my SD's 'break up' with her mom that she wanted to go move in with her, remember? Sometimes the straw that breaks their back and removes the blindfold can be the littlest thing, but once their eyes are open I think they are open for good.

Hang in there.

what an awful woman, poor children. i think she lies to people by telling them she sees the kids and calls them, didn't she lie to her mother that she had kids over the weekend once but in reality she hasn't seen them for months! evil woman

I feel so bad for your SK! An emotional wound is made every time she contacts the kids and goes away again!

Unfortunately, nothing can be done about it. It is the nature of their relationship.

BM is creating a "Cats-in-the-Cradle" mentality. Do you remember that song? In case you don't, it starts off with the son always asking the dad to do things with him, but the dad is always too busy. At the end, the dad asks the son to visit him and it's the son that's too busy this time.

When the SK grow us, they will be there for you and DH and your DS, but they may pop in every once in a while on BM and siblings.

We learn what is acceptable treatment of each person in our lives by watching how they treat us. The SK are just learning from BM what acceptable treatment of her by watching how she treats them. It's human nature.

My two younger kids grew up without their father's, but they would ask why their father didn't see them throughout childhood. I was very open and honest with them (as much as you can tell a child... I never told them 'daddy is a cheater') but I did put the responsibility where it belonged, with their father. He is the one that didn't call. He is the one that didn't visit. He is the one that didn't choose to have a relationship. He is the adult, they are children, so it's not their job and it was not MY job to facilitate a relationship for them. I made them available. I didn't hide the kids. I didn't make it 'hard' for the father to see them. and even if I were to make it hard, the courts are available to allow them to pursue their rights... they chose not to.

That is all I could tell my kids.. the truth as I know it...
**I don't know why your father doesn't see you.
**Your father's life is complicated. He has made choices and decisions that we have no control over.
**There are consequences to the choices, and he is missing out on knowing how incredible and great you are... unfortunately, there is nothing anyone can do about that.

Tools:

Teaching children that they are worthy. Building their self esteem and have no responsibility to the situation. They did not cause it, they have no control over it, and they can't fix it. If kids do not realize those things, it is very likely that they will become pathological in trying to fix the problem (as they see it) and often marry someone like the parent they can't fix... then try to 'change' the spouse (who is JUST like the broken parent) and become frustrated when they can't. Maybe several marriages (to the same type of person) later, they blame themselves for failure and beat themselves up and end up in a miserable old age of regret.

Now, that may sound extreme, but it is a cycle of behavior that is usually subconscious. Figuring out the cycle and making an effort to break the cycle (through knowledge and awareness) is the only useful tool I can think of.

I just wonder sometimes if the answer should be no, you cant just randomly pop back in. Make some real effort...show me you are for real... and then only then can you reenter my childrens life. I mean I know the possible consequences- Mom said you never let me see her... blah blah blah.

But, my own experiance with my cousin is that they figure it out in the end

thanks all for your support and advice! Mom of 4 I agree with you. My dh says that this is the last time he will give her a chance to re-enter the kids lives. He says if she messes this up she is done and can take him to court in the future to try to get visitation.

So I will keep you all posted on what happens today.....she did call last night to confirm she was taking the kids today....never done that before! I am thinking that between my sd's giving her a hard time and her own parents riding her behind about this she is trying to go above and beyond her normal behaviors. But I always say you can't change an apple into an orange! I am sure this new attitude is not going to last long with her because she is only doing it to appease others.

Oh gosh, Mom2. I'm so sorry for your stepkids and you and DH, this can't be easy for any of you to deal with. I'm glad to see your husband is taking a stand.

Every time I read a post from you I think this woman has severe issues and is able to hide the worst of it. Do you think her boyfriend is abusive? What's will all the sudden moves etc? Just seems like there is more to it than just a neglectful mom, kwim?

Mom2, this sounds awful. Can you mitigate this awful woman's impact on the kids by doing things all together vs. her taking them off? It sounds intrusive and she probably won't like it but it will soften the impact of her visit.

What exactly are her legal rights? Also, how much do those little people really miss her? Those are the strongest ties, but the disappointment is also the strongest too.

So sorry any of you are going through this.

thinking about you and the skids today . . . how did it go?

Well it was an interesting weekend. BM came on time on Saturday. SS did not want to go at first. He thought he was quietly telling me he was not sure if he should go with her, but she could hear. He asked me if he had to go and I told him it was up to him. Then he noticed her staring so he told her he was deciding if he should go with her or not! LOL! She looked like she was gonna cry and then ss said "well I have not seen her in a long time so I guess I will go..."

She took the kids for 3 hours. They brought their handheld video games and played them the whole time they were there. Said bm was busy chasing the younger 3 around. She did have oldest sd help her bathe the younger ones.

Sunday my ds was going to be with his dad and dh was off work so I thought great---bm is back maybe she will want her kids that day too and maybe me and dh will get a day to ourselves! So I asked bm what her plans were for the following day when she dropped the kids off Sat. She said she had none so I told her the kids are free and did she want to take them for that day. She said she would have to call us and let us know because they are staying with bf's family and she has to ask them.

So no call a few hours later. Had sd call bm and ask again. BM said she would call back. BM called back Sat nite at 10pm and said sure...will be there at ____ on Sunday. I think she called so late hoping sd's cell would be off and she would be in bed. During the week bm knew that sd's have to shut their phones off when she goes to bed.

Sunday comes and an hour after she is supposed to be here sd calls bm. BM says that she can't pick them up because she has to feed their siblings! (WTF???) So sd tells me and dh and I say "thats ok we can drop them off!" BM agrees and we drive the 5 minutes to drop them off. BM comes to the door in pajamas...mind you it is almost 2 hours past when she was supposed to be here by the time we dropped them off. Her vehicle was in the driveway and bf was there as well as various other people. So I am not sure why bf could not feed his kids while she came here?? I think she had no intention of taking them and we forced her into it.

The kids said they had another day of t.v. and handheld video games with little interaction from bm. Older sd said it is a 3bdrm home with bm, her bf, their 3 kids, bf's sis and her hubby and kids, another relative of bf and their friend and kids. Said bm does not even have a room and their stuff is in corners of the familyroom. ITs like a flop house there!!! So we will not be letting the kids sleep there ever.

When bm brought them back on time last night she made no plans on seeing them again and looked at us and said well the kids have my number. Then she left. So me and dh discussed it and we are not going to initiate any visitation and we doubt the kids will. Older sd hated it there. Middle sd and ss were okay with it because what kid does not love playing video games and eating junk food all day!

Older sd also told us that bm used middle sd's cell phone to send their granparents pics of my skids and their siblings. SD actually said "ya it was like she wanted to show them proof she saw us and act like she is a good mom".

this is unbelievable. I wonder if kids get older they simply would not want to go see her, end of story.

I wonder one thing, she is an awful mother yet she seems to be taking care of younger children..is it because she wants to impress her BF? because she has no other options since they live with her?

yeah makes me think of some terrible men who only spend time with their younger kids from second marriages and completely ignore older kids from previous marriage. DD has a high school friend, whose dad is very involved with her and her sister, yet he never ever sees or talks to his much older daughter from 1st marriage. more so DD's friend never saw her older sister, and DD's friend is 21 and half-sister is in her 30s. Ouch, never.

how you can be a good parent to one set of children and then completely ignore your other kids. how can one do that???

'how you can be a good parent to one set of children and then completely ignore your other kids. how can one do that???"

I'm totally not excusing terrible situations, like OP's issue, or the one you are describing, fD.

BUT I think it often happens that, particularly men, are much better parents the second go around. I think A LOT of it is just time and maturity and perhaps more financial stability.

There is a girl in my DD's class---her dad must be at least 70, and his wife is probably 45ish. Anyway, he DOTES on his little girl---she is 7. He made a comment at a school function about how he tries to be super-involved with his little girl because he didn't get the chance to be so with his older kids, who are both in the mid-30s. He said he was working a ton and getting established, and he just really regrets all he missed out on.

So I think it happens that people sometimes actually make more of an EFFORT to try harder the second go around because they realized the orginal mistakes they made and don't want to repeat them.

And for the record, from what I can see, this man has a good relationship with his older adult children and his grandkids--I know they all go on vacation together every summer, I know he and his wife babysit the grandkids often, etc.

But he's definitely an uber-involved parent at the school and he wasn't that way (so he says) when his older kids were little. :( It's sad but I think that happens a lot.

NOW--again---this is totally different from someone who just ignores their older kids, like mom2emall's BM, etc.

Well I don't think bm is a "good" mom to her younger kids. I think that there is no leaving them so she is forced to meet their needs. From what her family has complained about all 3 of her younger children have had extensive dental work due to her not giving them milk and instead putting soda, tea, or whatever she is drinking into their bottles and cups. And they say that she feeds the kids chips and junk all the time. Which is consistant with what older sd mentioned from the two times she saw her bm this weekend.

I think bm's bf is controlling and probably does nothing for his own kids. She has to do it all plus he limits her contact with everyone else I think. Bm's cousin and I are friendly and she mentioned that bm's parents offered a few weeks ago (before their decision to move here) to let bm and bf come back to their state and they would get them an apartment and help them with bills while they found jobs and childcare. BM chose to instead move into a house-full with bf.....which I am thinking is his control. He wants to keep her away from her family and any help to keep her dependant on him. He "allowed" their move back here because he had family here. Otherwise I doubt they would be back here.

I am sure this living situation will not last and they never seem to be able to keep their own apartment. So I am sure that its only a matter of time before they leave state again. And if by some miracle they find jobs and stay I am sure bm will use the "I am working" excuse to rarely see the kids like she has done in the past.

"BUT I think it often happens that, particularly men, are much better parents the second go around. I think A LOT of it is just time and maturity and perhaps more financial stability."

I agree that people become better parents as they get older and more experienced. But wouldn't it make more sense to become better parents to those same children. Know what i mean? Like when they were young maybe you weren't that good but now you are better with them. My ex is a better parent now, but he is a better parent to DD now as he was before as well as to his younger kids. I think i am better parent than I was in my 20s-30s working 2 jobs and going to school, but I am a better parent to that same DD, not to some new babies. KWIM?

I wonder if they do drugs, sounds like drug addicts, cannot keep a job, put soda in their bottles instead of milk? can't stay in one place. typical. i wonder if there is smoking or even worse stuff going on...

Mom2,

In a way, BM's performance over the weekend might have been the best thing, a "silver lining" event. The skids aren't that thrilled to be with her, she is being so flaky that you don't have to work to hard to accomodate her and my goodness, how many people are at the house? It sounded like upwards of 15 folks conservatively with all of the various kids?

Let her come to you and yours. And let her come correct! It sounds like since you cooperated, you can uncooperate now without a confrontation. She needs to fit in with your team, not the other way around. It sounds bad but it might really help you now.

''how you can be a good parent to one set of children and then completely ignore your other kids. how can one do that???"
BTW, my skids, SS30 in particular, feel that my DH is being a better father with our son than he was with them. From what I know, they are right. Dh completely ignores his grandkids which of course feeds right in to the hard feelings. Lovehadley is right, often dads look at the 2nd set of children or child as a means to do things over in a better way. DH is not Super involved at the school or extracurriculars but he does show up for meetings, parent teacher conferences, Tae Kwon Do promotions, the occasional kiddie party if he knows the parents and so on. I know he did not do that with his first set of kids, SS in particular. My SS30 is still very angry about this fact. I think it's pretty common but what can I do? Tell him DON'T be a better father to our child because you weren't great with your first?

Good luck.

"Tell him DON'T be a better father to our child because you weren't great with your first?"

no, but you can tell him to be a better grandparent. not like it is your job, not at all but if you ask what could you do. I don't understand this logic, it is never too late, he can still be better father/grandfather not only to DS but also to SKs and GKs. you sound like it is too late.

there is no excuse for ignoring his grandchildren, just no
excuse. makes me angry. no surprise SKs feel the way they do. I would be upset if my dad started ignoring his grandchildren.

FD I do not believe they do drugs. But I do know bm is horrible with money, dh says she always was. On payday she would spend her paycheck on junk instead of making bills a priority when they were together. And when she has been around the kids always tell us of new things bm has. I think they just spend money as quick as they get it and don't think forward to when bills are due. Irresponsible. The soda in the bottles is laziness. BM is very lazy. DH says she was lazy when they were together. I wish it was something like drugs that could stop. But the reality is this is just her now. With dh she was better because he did not accept those ways. With her bf she can be this way I guess.

And really he seems like he could care less how his kids are raised, all he seems to care about is having complete control over bm and isolating her from everyone else. It is to the point where she has always showed up to get the kids with hickeys all over her neck and in sweats and ponytails with no make-up. DH says when they were together and even when the kids were little she always cared about her appearance. I really think bf makes her look like crap when she comes to get the kids because he is jealous.

he is clearly abusive to her, but there is something wrong with her too, she is mentally immature like a teenage girl, constantly has babies, cannot work, cannot stay in one place. i hope she stopped having kids.

She is immature. She acts as if nothing is her fault and everything is normal! She tells lies that are so ridiculous and acts as if she almost believes them herself! I think it is a way of coping with what she has allowed to happen to her life. The good news is that she got her tubes tied after baby#6!! I think welfare covered it...lol.

is she still getting welfare for the kids who live with you or that changed? I certainly hope she is not getting benefits for your SKs.

Well not sure if she is still receiving benefits for skids. We reported it online and over the phone. DH submitted proof of custody to a caseworker. If the state actually did anything about it is anybodys guess.....

"she wanted to show them proof she saw us"

This keeps going around in my head;
maybe the reason she came to get the kids was because her mother nagged her into doing it.

The less importance you can put on their mother, the better.

An old boyfriend once horrified me by pouring alcohol on his son's cut foot & telling the child 'it'll feel like ice water if you blow on it while I'm doing this'.

Sure enough, the boy blew on his foot & never whimpered.

My own mother would have grabbed that little foot in an iron claw grip & gritted her teeth & glared & said "don't you *dare* jerk your foot!"...

& we'd have jerked that foot & screamed & cried.

Somehow, tell the kids that this mom thing will feel like ice water.

I am sure that bm's visit with the kids was not her own idea! It was probably the tremendous guilt trips from the kids and bm's parents and family. This move and the visit with the kids was probably to get everyone off her back. She got proof she saw them. Now she can just pretend to see them and lie to her family like she did other times before!

Bm has not called since her visit with the kids. I am hoping that was her show visit and she will fade away. It would make all our lives easier.

The kids have not said anything about her all week and went ahead and made plans with friends for the weekend. Nobody sat waiting around for bm to call and make plans, which is a huge improvement from last time! Last year when bm reappeared my middle sd kept waiting for bm to call or come over and did not want to make any other plans because she wanted to be available for bm. I had to convince her to go ahead and make plans with friends and tell her we would cancel friend plans if something with bm came up. Sadly we never had to cancel!