I would never do something like this without a very good therapist fully involved. The long term ramifications are too great... for your son, and for all of the reasons you mentioned, that could have very long lasting and far reaching issues. If you had not gone on and had a child with your new husband, I would have advised that you finish raising him on your own, because I feel you have one shot to get this right. But since you now have a baby with this new husband, obviously that would hurt your youngest child.

I do not know if your son would suffer the long term issues if this was his idea, and his choice...whether it would help or not. I do not know.

But this is really, really big stuff...that can really create issues that could affect him for the rest of his life, or a good part of it...so tread slowly, carefully, and with someone walking you through this. Perhaps your son needs his father, and that he will better be able to handle him and guide him into adulthood. Perhaps the constant strife and pain that your new husband brings into your young sons life, is more damaging to your sons development and self worth...that this in itself will create issues for your son that he will have to deal with.

And last, is your ex-husband married? Is there a serious girl friend in the picture? Because if you have read the step-parent forum (if not, it is a must read) then you will realize that with your son and his behavior problems, it has a good chance of creating problems in their relationship, and he may end up feeling that no where feels like home.

He is so young yet. A boy whose sense of self is still developing. His sense of who he is and how he fits into the world and those around him. And it sounds as though he is often "in-trouble" with the people who are to love him, frequently angry with him. Where is his "soft place" where he is loved, and is able to learn to love in return? Where his family is thrilled to see him walk in the door and anxious to hear his stories about his day? I imagine if you think it is hard now between he and your husband (who as an adult cannot get along with an 8 year old boy) I imagine it will be much harder when your son is a teenager.

Get guidance now. have someone who knows what they are doing help you now. The stakes are just too high for your son.

I'm sure everyone will disagree with me,but that's ok.
If your ex is a decent person and makes enough money,I dont see anything wrong with having your son go there with him for a trial.
Alot of boys often act this way because the father is missing. If your son truely misses his dad,he is of course going to resent your new husband for claiming the "dad role".
You say your son son has behavioral problems,just wondering if you care to elaborate? Have you gotten him any counseling at all? Tried medication too?
Is your EX open to having his son come stay with him? Is he re-married? Does he have any other kids?
All things to consider.
As parents,we do what we can to make our children happy.Sometimes,even our very best still isnt enough. So then,sometimes you need to think about how it is effecting everyone else.
I think,if your son wants to go,and everyone is pretty unhappy~then what could it hurt to try?
If he doent like it,will you not let him back with open arms? Of course you will...

Dear Blue Eyes,
Have you and your ex had any discussions with your son about what the rules and consequences would if he moved in with his dad? Maybe if your son sees that the rules will be similar, or even more strict, if your husband has to play hard ball with him because of how he is behaving now, the grass might not look so much greener. I do have to agree with coolmamma. Your son may just want to be with his dad now. The guy thing. I can't even imagine having an ex that I could discuss things with - you are very fortunate. I would talk it all over with him - maybe he would even go to the counselor with you before you all make a decision. If I were in your shoes, I would think hard about the motives for making the change. They should first definately be what is best for your son. I know - what is easier for the rest of you is compelling too. The teenage years seem to last forever - but they don't really. You have one chance - one childhood - to get thru to your son and help him learn how to be a functioning adult. Sorry, I know that sucks. I wish you luck, love and patience. That is what will get you thru this.

First my thanks to Sarah and Coolmama. It is difficult to admit that no matter what you have tried, you cannot seem to make your child happy and are ready to give up.
Yes, I am very lucky, my ex and I still have completely open communication and discuss everything having to do with our two kids. We have met in our home numerous times to discuss behavour issues - so that our kids see that we are united it parenting even though we are not together. He tries to keep the rules pretty much the same at his house when he has the kids - even if he doesn't fully agree with me all the time. I AM lucky.
Our son has had problems with his temperment and anger since he was very young. Not to lay blame - but he really is just like his dad (ex-M in law says he was the same as a child). He still throws tantrums as though he was two, either treatens to hit people or actually does on a daily basis. He screams and yells and punches walls, slams doors, stomps feet and throws things; when asked to help with chores or to re-do homework that is illegable.
As much as I love this child - it has been years of headache after headache - along with my crying and feeling like a complete failure as a mother.
His SF is not a monster by any means. Perhaps I didn't make that clear when I said they are like oil and water. He sets rules and boundaries like most parents and makes my son stick to them. (Yes, I am the mushpile of the family!) My son has a hard time with DH because he is the one who sticks to the rules. Not to say I don't. He's just not as easily swayed as I am. (Son still gets plents PO's at me though!)

My ex is in a committed relationship 2+ years now. Says they will marry one day. She and I do not get along but that has no bearing here. She treats my children well when they are in her care. I do not know how she would feel about my son moving in with them (she has no children) but my ex is completely open to it (misses his children greatly).
My son did go through a year of councelling when he was 6. Apparently the councellor sucked - she said he was fine and didn't have any major issues and only tried to teach him one or two skills to use when he became upset. They worked for a week. (SO frustrating!)
Thanks for all your advice. Sorry this was so long! I appreciate hearing from all of you!

Dear Blue Eyes,
What are you waiting for woman? Get your son a good counselor and get busy! I don't mean that in a bad way at all. You're the mom and you're in charge. He will be in fights at school soon if you don't do something now. He will be in a world of trouble in no time if he isn't taught that punching isn't the answer to everything. Good grief you have a good husband and ex/bio dad behind you. Seems like 4 grown ups (future step mom too) are a lot stronger and more powerful than one little 8 year old boy. Show him that's the case and he will probably back down and quit being the little Napoleon running the show.
Karate or boxing lessons might be good for him too. They teach self discipline and stress fighting for defensive purposes. And the consequence for hitting at home makes him lose them.
Of course he isn't going to get along with his step dad. He doesn't like rules and consequences. SO WHAT? Life is full of them. Get over yourself and get used to it. That is what the world will tell him, the hard way, if he doesn't change.
Go Blue eyed Mom!

Well,I think it is great you and your ex have such a solid relationship. That he misses the kids and would be willing to take your son and see if it helps. I hope you dont take offense to this,but maybe your son does see you as a push over (you said you were the mushpot) and he thinks he can get his way with you. Now that he has this new stepdad who isnt letting him do that anymore,he is resentful.
Perhaps this WILL change if he is with his dad because most kids look at dad's as the authority figure more then the moms.
I'm sorry you had a bad exprience with counseling. I have been to many who never seemed to help me either.(just like ANY doctor,you kinda have to shop around before you find one you like) Your son kinda sounds a bit bi-polar to me. My brother in law is bi-polar and that's how he acts. Always throwing stuff around and throwing tantrams. That in itself can be hard when trying to get the right diagnoses and possibly the right medication.
Keep us posted on what you decide to do.

I have a feeling that you will not have trouble getting him back. I imagine that your ex's girlfriend will take care of that. I imagine it will be shortly after they have "their" new baby...and she will have little tolerance with your son's misbehavior. Girl friends seems to want to prove themselves by being so great with his kids. It is after they are married that she doesn't have to prove herself, and the real feelings come out. When she is living what you yourself have described as years and years of heartache after heartache. Where even his own mom feels like such a bad mother because of the boys behavior problems.

That when your son is not there, what a huge difference the atmosphere of the house is. Peaceful. Do you not imagine that she will not want the peaceful atmosphere too? Especially if they have a baby too? She will imagine this nice little family...she, her new husband, and a new little baby. But there is your son doing the same things at their house, that he does at yours. How long before she holds up the white flag and says no more? This is not what I signed up for.

Your son is only going to get stronger, and angrier. I agree with sarah. Find the right counselor for your son. The right person that can turn this around while he is still young. There are alot of useless counselors out there. The trick is to find the really good ones. Try calling your pediatrician for a list of those who come highly recommended to work with children. You may have to drive a distance. I know that you are thinking that your DH was like this as a child and he turned out fine. And perhaps you will be fortunate enough for this to be the case. But what if it isn't? What if he goes the other way, and his entire life is a mess? And every relationship he has is negative? He is so young yet...there must be someone who can help you and your ex help you son.

If your ex accepts custody, help him, help your son. Let your son know that you love him, and that you know he needs his father right now. But that you will be there for him too. That two people love him so much. But that you know that sometimes sons need their dads. And you understand his desire to want to live with his dad. That it is OK, and that his dad is a good man, and how blessed he is to have such a wonderful dad. And I suppose that you see how it goes. I understand that therapy is expensive, and at times it can feel like a waste of money. But just having someone help you walk through some of this, might help you all.

I wish you the best as you make these very hard decisions. There is a book on tape at the library called "The Mother Dance". It is about simply being a mother. The good, and the bad. You will laugh and cry. And you will find that you are in good company, and not alone. It is excellent. It is told by a woman who takes off the mommy mask, and tells it like it is. There is another one, and I cannot find it right now, but I will look for it, but she too, takes off the mommy mask of perfection, and gets real. She talks about the painful aspects to being a mother, and the beauty. It is raw, and worth hearing. There may be others books (I rarely get around to reading them, but the books on CD, I do listen to when I am in the car, or doing other things, and they are so incredibly worthwhile). Perhaps others can recommend something that will help you as you walk through these difficult times.

Perhaps the others are right to simply see how your son does under the care of his father. I imagine that if you are going to do this, it may help to do this before your ex is actually re-married. When it can be just the two of them for awhile. That your darling son may thrive being an only child under the care of his father for now. And your husband will be able to focus on just him...get your ex also to listen to books on tape about parenting, etc. Find out what is out there to help both you and your ex raise this son. Our children come into our lives, and we get what we get, and we do our best to parent them into healthy adults. Some kids are easy, and some would try the patience of even a saint like Mother Theresa!!! But through the difficult ones, we grow the most. It also keeps us humble (smile). Because they stretch us in ways we never imagined. Some days we will be awesome parents, and on other days we will fail miserably. It is the life of a parent. Don't be so hard on yourself. Just do the best you know how on any given day. There are some days, we don't have our best in us to give. On other days, we will amaze even ourselves, because we gave our best and then some! Be compassionate to yourself. Forgive yourself. Encourage yourself. Breathe deeply. Find things that make you smile on those hard days, and find friends who make you laugh deeply. It is good for your soul.

I wish you good things!

Dear Blue Eyed,
I thought about you on my ride home last night.
Some things you are dealing with are sort of normal with boys. Being big and bad, punching things - being the tough guy.
I reached my younger stepson - who is like my own son, by helping him discover the down side of those behaviors.
Such as getting bad grades. When you start to explore the consequences, they aren't that appealing. If you don't have good grades and work habits - you can't get a good job, therefore you can't have a cool truck or house, you can't get a cute girl if you have a lame vehicle etc. The punching walls - he has to learn that some day when he has a house it will look terrible and no one will want to come over to his house. If he keeps fighting, there will ALWAYS! be someone bigger than him, who will be willing to set him straight. The true tough guys don't look for fights, and the punks who keep trying to challenge them are just a pain in the butt. He definitely needs some training on being a real cool guy. Have some conversations with him about who he thinks is cool and why he thinks so.
He has you snowed. That is why he keeps threatening to leave and run to daddy's. Do you think you want your ex to teach him these things, rather than you and your husband right now? That is entirely up to you. But that is what he needs to learn. He is either going to end up in the med station with a busted nose, or kicked out of school for being a bully. It is pretty simple. I know, it happened to my older stepson - the med station part, and not just once.
Boys are alot different than girls. You have to learn about them. Trust your husband and ex with this. Get to know guy thinking. Boys have to learn how to be guys from guys, but you can help too. Mothers add the kindness and consideration part. They teach boys how to treat girls when they grow up. You know the old saying - if you want to know how a guy will treat you as a wife - watch how he treats his mom. He definitely needs to learn that. He can bully, slam things around, hit, threaten to leave you and reduce you to tears. Doesn't bode well for how he will treat his wife if he isn't happy. It is your job to teach him that. He is a fortunate child. Keep that in mind. He is not a poor dysfunctional child. He is smart enough to do this, he is smart enough to "get" how to do things right too.
You haven't flunked and failed. You just have to work with this boy and be determined to get it right. Teach him the tough stuff because you love him. Help your son become the man you know he can be.

Once again thanks to you all for being here to listen. It has been a difficult week, full of discussions with many people.
We have made the decision to let my son go and live with his dad for a trial period and see if that will make him happier and help his behavour.
I am trying to seem strong with my decision for the sake of my son - but cannot shake the feeling that I have failed him miserably. I do feel that this is what is best for him at this point; but still have those sad feelings.
Any suggestions on making this transition smooth for him? We have not set an actual date yet. Still trying to decide what would be the best way.
Thanks

In this thread I read that you want to send your son to live with his father because you can't deal with him. In another thread, I read that you haven't spoken to your mother in a couple of years because you don't like the fact that she is unhappy with your husband.

Is there a pattern here of disposing of those who don't act the way we want them to act?

Not to mention divorcing the child's father....yes, there does seem to be a pattern.

dirtboysdad:

I'm sorry you have to perceive it as my having a 'pattern' for 'disposing' of people in my life. Is there a psychology degree I'm missing next to your name?

If you read my post you would see that I have been dealing with severe behavour problems with my son for over 5 years. I have put him through therapy and tried almost every 'method' I could find out about through our family doctor, the therapist or other parents, to try and get a handle on his anger and agression. I have three children, two from my first husband and one from my new husband. I still have to consider what they are going through and how they are being affected by his anger towards the world.

I did not 'dispose' of my first husband thank you. He couldn't keep his d**k in his pants and I didn't think I needed to tollerate that as a wife. Perhaps you disagree? I should have just stuck it out since men aren't supposed to be disposable?

I have made the incredibly difficult decision of sending my son to live with his father for a year to see if he can help him better than I can. I am not 'disposing' of him either thank you! I am choosing my sons future over my own selfishness of wanting him with me all the time.

As for my mother - she prefers to stay married to my father who molested both my sister and I as children and pretend that it doesn't matter now because it was so long ago. She doesn't like the fact that my new husband speaks his mind to my family and doesn't take their 'lets keep our skelletons in the closet' crap. He ruffels her feathers. Since I don't step in and ask him to be quiet, she perceives this as him being dominant over me. Personally I love letting him have his say. It's nice to hear someone stick up for me. So NO, I did not 'dispose' of my mother either! She chooses to live in ignorance instead of reality.
You should really try to find out what is going on before spouting off like some half cocked cheeky ass.

Give me a break...it is obvious from her posts that this is not an easy thing for her to do! To make a child there are TWO people involved.She has tried her best,and now it's the father's turn to try. It may be in the boy's best intrests,and THAT IS WHAT IS IMPORTANT.
So funny of you to say that she has a pattern of leaving people when men have been doing it for CENTURYS!

I've lurked here for quite a while and find the entire sight quite interesting and very sad. Few stepfamilies have a happy ending; the majority (over 60%) end in another divorce. The divorce rate for men in their second marriage is even higher, approaching 70% (more divorced men remarry than do divorced women.)

Blueeyedgirl, the other poster might not have the qualifications to interpret your postings, but I do. I "hear" a young woman who harbors a great deal of anger on many different levels and really needs to get some help herself.

If you were still with your son's father, how would you have handled the issue of his behavior? You said you've had him to counselors, doctors and others. I've seen no mention of his having been tested for ADHD. Although you have already apparently made the decision to send him to his father, I would still suggest that you have him tested if he has not been already as going to live with his father and his father's girlfriend is NOT going to resolve the situation in your son's favour.

You said that your mother chooses to live in ignorance rather than reality. You said that you are not speaking to her because she doesn't like your husband and says he is controlling. You are not living in reality either. You have chosen not to speak to her due to your anger over abuse that occurred years ago, not because she doesn't like your husband.

Fuzzywuzzy,
Yes we have had my son tested for ADHD. He does not have it. Nor does he have ADD or OCD. He does have ODD and my DH and I have used the methods given to us to deal with the issues that go with it. I am not just handing my son off to his father because I'm tired of dealing with him. I feel that I cannot help him to grow into the man I WANT him to be. A GOOD man who doesn't end up angry with the world and takes responsibility for himself and his actions. At this point in his life he does not and try as we might we can't seem to get him there. Sending him to try a new approach with the father who loves him more than anything in this world is what BD and I BOTH feel is best for him right now. We also agree he is welcome back with open arms if that is the choice DS makes after giving it an honest try there.
I am in couselling myself and have been for the last year and a half. I have worked very hard to deal with my own issues and yes, I am angry with my parents. Wouldn't you be under the circumstances? I feel I have the RIGHT to be angry for being molested by my father and having a mother who wants to ignore it. But in the end it is HER decision to live with it hidden. She refuses to even discuss it with me - so I feel I can go no further in our relationship. The fact that she doesn't like my new husband came along first. We live 1000km away from my parents and while my children were only getting to visit my parents once or twice a year - my mother could not even manage to be civil to him for that amount of time. Given all her 'faults' in my eyes - yes, I choose my DH over her. She doesn't see our lives on a daily basis. She never made an effort to. If her opinion on my DH was based on her actually having knowledge of our family, I would treasue her advice and listen to it without hesitation. Sadly that is not the case.
I have a GREAT family here with my children, DH - and that includes my EX and his family as well. My children are blessed to have a great blended family and I am not going to be stubborn and say 'I'm his mom... I can handle this myself' just because I'm the one who delievered him. I believe in asking for help when I need it. And THAT is what I have choose to do.

So you think that by sending him to live with his father, who by your own telling apparently had the same problem when he was a child, a man that YOU divorced because of his irresponsibility, your son might learn responsibility? Good luck; you are going to need it.

So as a 'professional' as you claimed to be - you don't believe that people can grow and change? That my EX is not a good man and father to help his son grow as a person. Wow... You really SHOULD quit your day job!

I've had a bit of difficulty posting a response but here it is:

I am a family law attorney with a master's in psychology.

Every time you put your fingers to the keyboard new issues arise.

Do me a favour and just stop posting okay. You're not helping at all and that is what this forum is for.
It doesn't matter WHAT your job is. You're not attempting to help the situation in ANY way and that is the reason I wrote to begin with.

Sorry to see that you are getting slammed on this issue, blue-eyed-girl, when it is clear that you are agonizing over this decision. I guess that's the price of using a public forum like this.

In support, I can totally understand why you would not want to talk with your mother (some experience of my own), and why you think it might be helpful to send him to his father's house. The past is the past, hopefully he can be a good father. The fact that the two of you have a good speaking relationship bodes well.

We have many of the same issues with my stepson (ODD and some ADHD), and he has started to say he wants to live with his mother.The screaming and yelling, stomping, irritability etc.. is all very familiar to me. We had a talk with his mother about having consistent rules, bedtimes, etc..and I think that helps a lot. We are working hard on this issue right now.

One thing that stood out to me is that it sounds like your husband is the dominant authority in your house. If you are truly the "mushpile", then your DH has to be the heavy-handed one. I don't think it is a good thing to have a stepparent take the lead in discipline. Though my SS was older when I entered the picture, I think he would be very resentful of me if I was doing the heavy discipline all the time.

Best wishes and hoping that things will work out for the best, just remember, (and express!) that you truly love this kid.

I agree with sarabera. It sounds like blue eyes is doing the best she can in order to help her son. If she thinks he may be better off staying with his father for awhile, then that is what should happen. It is obvious that she has put a lot of thought into it. It is also not like she is abandoning her son, or that if things don't work out for the best when it comes to her son's behavior that she will never allow him back into her home. That is not what she is saying at all. I'm sure she will probably remain very active in her sons life. Cut her some slack. She is trying to use every tool available to make things better for her son.

Blueeyedgirl~ I didnt read the part about you being molested.Anyone who tells you to forgive and talk to your mother when she wont EVEN IGKNOWLEDGE WHAT HAPPEND TO YOU,should get a clue.
As a child,your mother's FIRST duty was to protect you as a child. Yet,instead she stayed with the person doing this to you.
And now she THINKS she has any right in this world to OBJECT to the man you marry??? I DONT THINK SO!
I'am so glad you have found your husband and feel secure now.
I was also molested as a child...My mom I feel is a very irresponsible person who made poor choices with me as a child.
I dont hold this against her now,but since she is still so irresponsible,it is very hard for us to get along all the time.
Just dont let anyone make you feel bad~You do what you HAVE to do.You do what's best for you and your family,anyone who doesnt like it can take a hike.

Update...
I know I'm not a regular on here, but I wanted to say thanks to those that had replied and offered some guidance.
My son is doing great at his dad's house. Adapted to his new school really well and is thriving being an 'only' in dad's home during the week. His visits here each weekend are happier and actually fun. During the week when he is at dad's our home is calm and the other two kids are doing better as well, not being 'pushed aside' as much, while we deal with their brother.
Bio dad and I have been seeing a child psychologist in relation to our son and making great progress.
It was the best possible move for everyone in our family and while I took some ribbing from a fair amount of people on here, I know I made the right choice.
Thanks.

Well thats good Blue, I hope it all works out for you and your family.

You obviously have this boys interest at heart.

As long as he is loved, and he is, he will be fine.

P

So glad it's working out well!

A lot of parents seem to view sending the child to the other parent's house as an 'escape' mechanism, something to try when they've given up. So they ship the kid off, wash their hands and hope for the best -- and perhaps that's what those unsupportive posters were assuming you were doing.

But with all of you working together and getting professional help and guidance, everything's getting better. That's so good to hear --

Send him. You have nothing to lose. Insanity is doing the same thing and expecting a different result.

Don't let this kid destroy the rest of the family.