"I find it hard to believe you have two graduate degrees when you say you got married young and had five kids. As a SAHM, how did you go to school? How did you afford it with five kids? Why do you buy a home that is $300,000 if you are a single parent and living at poverty level? Why don't you just rent so you won't be so financially strapped? I don't want you to answer ANY of my questions, because I don't really care."

I am going to answer your questions anyway. I have six kids, not five, btw. I got my first graduate degree before I had any children, and my first child was born when I was in my mid-twenties, not particularly young, but not old either. As I said in a previous post, somewhere, I worked at least part-time for most of my marriage. I got my second graduate degree after my husband left. I paid for it with educational loans, and I was working almost full-time. I bought a house because a) I wanted to give my children stability and not have to move if the lease ran out and my landlord wanted to sell and b) because the going rent was only about $200 less than the mortgage, and after taking into account tax deductions, it makes more financial sense to own. I qualified for a mortgage larger than I could afford based on traditional ratios because my credit is excellent. Any more questions?

Obviously there is something about your child care or living arrangements in between the time your children were born and you started living with your ex long-term boyfriend that you don't want to share - that is fine, but it is misleading to imply that it is possible to support three toddlers so close together in age while working minimum wage jobs, without child support, and while living on your own.

kkny, ARE YOU KIDDING ME?????

"Since you titled this priorities, I guess it is OK for SMs and dads to take vacations, not pay for college, etc, but not moms. Again, thanks for the education."

More judgmental hypocrisy from the so called "bio mom" representatives. I get the third degree because I say that I took vacations with my kids (TOS is the one saying 'it's inconceivable that I could afford to do so' and you are the one saying "I would not be taking a cruise, or using any tax refund for a cruise.") so it's implied that when a single mom goes on vacation, she's wrong??? That money should be put in a college fund so she can whine to her kids that she can't take them on vacation because their father isn't paying enough!! Oh, let me go back to making my list....

It is okay for SMs and dads to go on vacation if they want to, but it's also okay for moms to also if they want. If you choose to save it all for college, THAT'S YOUR CHOICE. In my opinion, if the kids want to go to college, they can get good grades in HS and apply for scholarships and grants. They can take out a loan. They can work part time. and if they are in college, I can use the extra money that I might have and help them instead of going on vacation. But when they are kids, I agree 100% with mom2emall, they are only kids for a while and those memories will be treasured forever. Unless you want your kids to be materialistic and only care about money & status, they should also know that the most important thing in life is family. Spending time with family should come first. There are all sorts of options for college that are more affordable than others., unless you are too much of snob.

If hubby and the ex wife could afford to pay for an au pair or any kind of day care for their children I would be working or when they are old enough to carefor themselves alone a couple hours a day.

But I will not work to put "their" children in daycare... I "refuse" to work and pay for daycare for them... So as long as they need someone to watch them afterschool or when their parents can afford daycare I will stay home.

It would be selfish of me to work and bank my paycheck don't ya think? but they are NOT MY KIDS ... why should I pay for their afterschool daycare... :)

And as far as my SM vision lets me see ... its only the BM's who don't have custody who the SM's complain about not working. No one is knocking you for working ... but how dare you knock mom2 and Ima for working and being able to budget their money to go on vacation with their SC in tow... Not like they are dropping them off at BM's and saying off we go see you in a week. They are taking the children with them. They have their SC full time... they are not EOW SMs ... Married people do whatever it takes to make sure the children are taken care of ... whether or not they are "yours, mine and ours". Just because we are SM's doesn't exclude us from worrying about what the kids are doing afterschool, who they will be with, where they will be.... as mom's (we have all given birth so that makes us moms) those are the things we work out on a daily basis. Same as you... you have an au pair to care for your daughter. We are two parent families no need for an au pair.

And about college educations ...most would do whatever it takes to put their child through college if they wanted to go ... not because they are "entitled" to go... My 18SD dropped out of community college after 6 weeks... so dad should keep paying for her to go?

My 22 DD has been in college for 4 years and pays for herself and with scholarships! I think she is more entitled to college money than the SD but what do I know afterall I am just a SAHSM.

You are the one knocking me for having an aupair -- and yet I have no other way to reliabley get DD to school, etc.

So I guess what you are saying is the mom has to work (unlike you) and somehow arrange for kids to get to school.

You on the other hand are a SAHM, so I guess you can take a holier than thow atitiude about anyone who works.

Cawfe isn't a SAHM, she's a SAHSM. Those are NOT her kids. Why should she pay for childcare for her step kids? It's their parent's responsibility and if they can't afford it, she is doing both of them a favor by staying home to care for them. If she weren't there, the parent's WOULD have to arrange and pay for child care. How the hell is that 'holier than thou attitude'?

I knock my SD's BM because she has NEVER worked. She lived with her mom & her mom worked & supported her and her kids while she collected child support and used it to party. Now she is living with her BF and still not working, she has NO kids with her and I juggle work and taking care of her child. Meanwhile, she is still collecting child support and doesn't even have a child with her. in fact, she told DH on Friday that he owes her support since she moved. He is in the process of changing the order so she will have to pay but right now, she hasn't given him a cent in five months... and she expects HIM to pay her like she still has her daughter with her half time. She must be using her free time to think of ways to make DH pay her more... She has a list too I guess.

I thought some of Cawfes kids were hers also. Her holier than thow is making fun of me for having an aupair.

I see it dammen if you work, dammend if you dont.

One of the five living here is mine ... he is 15

Hubby's oldest is 18

The 3 youngest who would need daycare are ... 12 10 and 9.

Yes it is damned is you stay home, damned if you don't.

what's wrong with having an aupair? DD attended school outside the district so there was no transportation. For the last few years my brother drove her on the way to work and then when my nephew started riving they drove together to the same school. Luckily me and my brother live few blocks from each other. I couldn't drive her because of my work shedule, i work an hour away opposite direction from her school. If my bother wouldn't live close by, I would have to loook for car pool or hire someone. What do you expect kkny to do, someone needs to get DD to school and home. Not everybody can afford to stay home and drive their kids everywhere, people do have to work to pay the bills. especially divorced women.

fine, there's probably nothing wrong with having an au pair. But don't you think it's a little hypocritical that she criticizes a step mom that takes a step child to a doctor visit (she thinks the dad should leave work and take his own child) because it's 'overstepping bounds' but she pays someone to do it for her?

Good point IMA. How come it is okay for kkny to hire someone to drive her dd around, cook, and take her to dr. appts but then when a sm has to do these things when a dad is at work it is an issue? And the dad should be expected to stay home from work and do all for his kids?

I don't think anyone objects SMs taking stepchildren to a doctor. I think objection was in regards to doing so without parental concent or such. i wouldn't want anybody (unauthorized) taking DD (when she was minor) to a doctor. If parents (if they are in the picture) agree then what difference does it make who drives them to doctors? i had my parents, my grandparents, my brother, my sister-in-law helping me to get DD to appointments, i couldn't afford quitting my job so i can drive her to every appointment. kkny might not have family around so she hires someone. But decision who is driving who is still made by parents.

I suspect kkny finds a doctor that DD needs, makes appointment, sets everything up and then just asks somebody to drive DD there while she works (so she can pay the bills and have health insurance to pay for a doctor!). I think it is very different because au-pair or a nanny doesn't pretend to be anything more than that.

KKNY has made comments before that the dad should do those things, not the sm. And now she is saying that she has someone do it for her.....so it is a double standard. A bm can delegate a task to someone else because she has to work, but if a dad delegates to the sm because he has to work they are wrong and it in not a sm's place to take child to the doctor because legally sm's have no rights. That is why people are giving kkny a hard time about her au pair taking dd to dr. appts.

I think it has more to do with who makes the decision to take the child to the doctor. I assume the au pair does not actually go into the examining room with kkny's daughter, or discuss anything with the doctor.

Personally, it would never occur to me to have anyone take my children to the doctor other than myself or my husband, except in the case of dire emergency, in which case the school etc. is authorized to obtain medical care.

I have no problem with anyone reasonable taking a 15 year old. I do have a problem with a teacher, doctor, etc discussing confidential informatin with other than parent. I also think if parent cant take child, they should give other parent opportunity to do so. Trust me, my X isnt taking child anywhere. And too often I read here about SMs resentful about being chauffer. And I suspect Dad is trying to cut down on CS by having SM being unpaid child care provider. It seems to me that Dads wanting custody has increased as CS has been enforced.

CS goes up when children are enrolled in daycare :)

So I am saving both parents money by being a SAHSM. Mom's support doesn't go up and dad has more money to spend on childrens extras mom refuses to pay. Like medicine or extras cirricular activities she signs them up for.

So if both parents are busy its ok for me to take them to the doctors? (which is what I said all along!)

"CS goes up when children are enrolled in daycare :)"

Not in my state, it doesn't.

sure does in mine - one of the first factors considered.

"And too often I read here about SMs resentful about being chauffer. And I suspect Dad is trying to cut down on CS by having SM being unpaid child care provider. It seems to me that Dads wanting custody has increased as CS has been enforced."

I am resentful.. absolutely correct KKNY. I'm resentful that the mother of my husband's child, gave up custody to live a life of childless bliss with her new love interest and now I am the one picking up the slack SHE created. No, I don't think I should blame my husband, he was blindsided along with me.

Don't get me wrong, we are happy to have his daughter here and I don't mind doing things for her. I didn't mind when it was my husband's week and I did things while he was working. I wouldn't mind it now, my husband appreciates that I do so much for his daughter. I love her because she is part of him and I hope in time, we form our own bond and relationship. That may never happen because, even though she chose to run off and leave her daughter, she is filled with a hatred for me. I haven't quite figured out why. After all, if my husband had won custody, I could understand her hostility toward me. But I was here when she left and she knew that if she left, I would be caring for her daughter. She is so insecure as a mother and jealous that somebody else is doing 'her' job, even though she doesn't want to. As a mother, I can't imagine what she wants for her daughter. She's so blinded by her anger and resentment toward me. So, yes I resent that she could leave and hate me for trying to give her daughter a happy home life and childhood.

And to be honest, I hate that I resent her for leaving. I should be glad she isn't in our lives daily but I can't be happy because it breaks my heart to see her daughter so sad.

So, I'd like to tell you what you can do with your theory on Dad's just wanting to cut down on child support, but I am going to take the high road on that one. (and just for your information, when BM tried to take DH to court to get a higher support using MY income and DH did have concerns he wouldn't be able to pay it, I told him that I would get another job if we needed to. Supporting a child is a top priority to me so what does that do to your theory? BTW, it may be a coincidence but BM gave up custody shortly after she didn't get the huge support order she wanted. Could it be that a BM didn't think keeping her child was worth it?)

i have to agree with tos on taking children to a doctor and actually going in the room with them and listening to confidential info. i do not object X doing so, of course. We had arrangements that X always took care of DD's dental needs and he still does even when she is grown. Finansially and also finding appriopriate dentist or orthodontist for her. He, not SM. All other situations had to be authorized by me. All her other medical needs were and still are addressed by me. same with school counselor or other similar professionals. Only me or X. No, i wouldn't want SM to go to a doctor, psychologist, whoever with DD and discuss anything there or obtain confidential info. absolutelly not. only I or X could do it or somebody that we both agreed would be appropriate. As about just driving her to appt this is not a big deal.

DD went to a school psychologist for some time when she was in 11th grade. School psychologist shared with me what was dicussed because DD didn't object to it. Under no circumstances would i want anyone else, including SM, go to a school psychologist and get confidential info about DD or even talk about DD at her school. Absolutelly not. And yet so many SMs here claim to do so, like talking to SKs' therapists etc. I am not the kind of BM who is against SMs at all. But this is not something I would want SMs to do with my kid. This is confidential.

I can see where you're coming from about that you wouldn't want your daughter's SM to be involved at DD's therapist... but I'm just wondering what your feelings on it would be if the situation had been a bit different and DD said "It would be good if my therapist spoke to SM because it would help her better understand me" or the therapist said "I see that there are some troubles between DD and SM. I'd like for the two of them to come in together and we'll talk about the relationship"

I realize this wasn't the case for you, but hypothetically, would you be OK with SM being involved at the therapist's if DD and the therapist both thought it would be a good thing?

In Louisiana, child care expenses MUST be added to the basic support obligation. In Arkansas, and many other states, as well as all the Canadian provinces, it MAY be added as an after expense at the judges discretion.

The daycare in Louisiana is to be paid according to the proportioate amount of each parents income. THus my husband pays 80 percent of the kids daycare.

Of course, the ex takes advantage of that by keeping a 12 year old in after care that costs seven hundred dollars a month, when its available at the school for five dollars a day. Oh well. In other places, it must be both reasonable, and necessary.

If both parent's are involved in their children's lives, that would be ideal, that the parent's would deal with doctors, therapists, and school stuff.

Her therapist talks to me more than DH because he's at work and I'm the one taking her. The therapist would be happy to talk to BM and has even tried to get her to come to a session, but she's canceled and doesn't even inquire about her daughter's progress. The only comment BM has made is demanding to know what is said during SD's sessions and if it's about her? I drop off SD and pick her up. Every once in a while, the therapist will talk a little while making the next appointment and she will always ask SD if it's okay to tell me certain things. DH or I will call the therapist if we have any concerns and let her know so she can explore if there is really a problem. We don't make that call in front of SD because we want her to open up to her therapist. BM has the same ability to give her concerns to the therapist but her only concern is that she looks bad. (and quite frankly, she does. She left her child & the therapist has been there every step of the way, listening to SD talk about her feelings. So, I guess BM's worry that she'll look bad is based in the fact that she did something to make herself look bad. Not because WE had to say anything.)

and taking a teenager to the doctor is not the same as taking an 8 year old. When I take her to the doctor, of course I am going to sit in the room. I'm going to be the one that hears the instructions from the doctor, so they can be followed. I'm going to be the one that gives the doctor all the information he needs (if I can). and I do the same for my kids that are 17 & 18. They want me there, so of course I am going to be there for them. (and if BM needs the information on medication, I can give it to her too)

I agree that the other parent should have the first option of taking their child to these things. I doubt any EOW step parent's take their stepchildren to appointments (on the weekend?). It's the step parents that are 'raising' these children because dad has custody and in most cases, it's because the mom has left or isn't being a good parent. If the other parent is around, they should be given the option, but what happens when they don't take that option?

I was the one that went to SD's school conference. BM told DH that she had scheduled a separate conference and when we got there, the teacher said only one conference for SD was made, ours. BM never even asked for her report card. We sent her a copy and we give her copies of everything (school bulletins & field trip info) but she doesn't ever show an interest. She hasn't been to one school function this year, except back to school night. She went to that so she could tell us she had moved with her BF. If SD brings home some of her work that needs to be redone over the weekend, we have to stay up with her on Sunday to get it done, BM doesn't think she should have to spend her weekend helping SD do home work. She thinks her time is for having fun.

and Ceph, I believe if a therapist is involved because of issues relating to the divorce or step family, all the adults in the child's life should be involved too, even if they are not married. That doesn't mean attending every session, but they should not be excluded. (and I'm not talking about a casual BF/GF, but more serious relationship that may lead to marriage) If you exclude step parent's or potential step parent's, then those issues will never get resolved and a potential step parent should know exactly what they are getting into. Excluding them until they are actually married and then including them in problems they may not have known existed (because they were kept in the dark) would probably create more problems.

As far as confidentiality, a therapist isn't going to discuss with ANYONE something the child doesn't agree to. In your case, you are an involved parent but if your BF had a young child and their mother was gone (deceased or not involved), would you expect your BF to do everything for the child? (ie. leave work for all appointments? stay home when his child is ill? etc.)

I have attended all but one of my SD's visits with her counselor. Mom has come to a few, but only if specifically requested. There has never been a question that I would be involved, and I'm sure a lot of that is due to my DH being the CP, in addition to my SD seeing me as "mom." She has never questioned my involvement in anything because I'm only STEPmom. Maybe because I lead her Girl Scouts, coach her cheerleading, am president of her PTA, coach her dancing, etc. I think I have demonstrated my dedication to her life and she feels that I hold a place equal to her bio-parents in it. Her stepdad, on the other hand, is persona non grata and she does not want him involved with anything.

Teachers, counselors, friend's parents all come to me first. Not because I throw myself out there, but because they see who is a parent and who gave birth.

I go to all my skids dr. appts (mostly because my husband is at work at that time) and dentist appointments. I went to the last round of parent/teacher conferences alone because my dh had to work and we could not reschedule for a time around his work schedule. I am the one who organzies most friend activities with the skids and takes care of driving. In my situation, where I am around 100% of the time and their mom sees them for a few weeks once a year it would be silly for important info to be kept from me! I have helped my dh make important medical decisions with skids regarding medications, braces, etc.

However, I could see the point of a ncp's spouse not needing to be present at dr/therapist appts. Though, I can't imagine that a spouse would keep everything confidential from a spouse regarding the kids. Especially if the stepparent spends time with skid during regular visitation.

justnotmartha.........I like your point about "they see who is a parent and who gave birth". In many situations on here the two(giving birth and parenting) do not go together unfortunately!

"BF had a young child and their mother was gone (deceased or not involved), would you expect your BF to do everything for the child? (ie. leave work for all appointments? stay home when his child is ill? etc."

I would expect that. I do, as do almost all single mothers of young children.

My exH's current wife once came to a team meeting - and she hadn't seen the relevant child more than once or twice in the previous year. She hasn't attended any since, for which the school is grateful, since otherwise they would have to schedule separate meetings for my exH and myself.

"I would expect that. I do, as do almost all single mothers of young children. "

so than you must object to kkny having someone watch her dd when sick and take her to dr.'s appointment tos??

I have more sick days than my dh, and he makes more per day than I do, so when a kid is sick I am usually the one staying home from work.

And why TOS would the school have to schedule seperate meetings for you and your exh if he brought his wife along? Very immature!!!

What difference does it make if he makes more per day? How few sick days does he have, anyway? I currently have close to 500 hours of sick leave accumulated, after working in my current position for about six years, and I am a single parent, so I am the one who always stays home if the kids are sick or takes them to the doctor. Perhaps your husband's kids get sick more often, and if so I am sorry to hear that, but my kids usually miss only a few days a year.

I don't think the au pair is in charge of "watching" her daughter when she is sick - I thought she was mostly there to drive her places. A fifteen year old with a bad cold doesn't need watching - if she were very ill, that would be a different story, but I imagine kkny would stay home in that case, au pair or not.

There is no reason for me to discuss my child's educational issues with someone who might not recognize her if she bumped into her on the street. Her martial arts instructor, our next door neighbor, her adult siblings, and probably several other people would be in a better position to provide input at a team meeting, and no one considered inviting them.

Gosh, when I was a single parent, I considered signing up the kids for Big Brother's/Big Sister's, and I put them in Boy/Girl Scouts, Little League, Karate and dance class and it was all in the hopes that they would have plenty of positive male & female role models in their lives. It would have been wonderful if their father's had been more involved, but since they weren't, it would have been equally wonderful for them to have surrogates to help care for them. It isn't about pawning off responsibility to others necessarily, but the child knowing that several people love and care for them.

As far as attending appointments or school events, it seems to be okay to have a paid person do those things but not someone that actually cares about the child. A good, loving parent (single, married, divorced or remarried) should want their child(ren) to have the largest group of people that love their child or are involved in their child's life.

I have friends/teachers/relatives who care about my children and take them places (not doctor's appts though, I have always done that myself). My husband's current wife dislikes my children (except for one - see, I pointed that out again), barely knows them, and has never even met the older ones. She has no reason to attend my child's team meeting.

Sick days ... my husband gets ONE sick day per year ... that's it just the one... so every day he takes off to take a kid to an appt. he loses a days pay ..

And one week vacation per year.... which he "saves" as going to court days... so in 3 years he has not had a vacation because he has to save those days to go to court every 3-5 months

He was basically a SAHD until ex left ... she made over $100,000 a year. He worked his schedule around the kids while she was the major bread winner.

And the children are not ill ... but they do get sick many times per year.

TOS you're right she doesn't because she is uninvolved but if your children lived with her full-time and she wasn't involved you would be having a cow too. Can't win.

The only people who question me taking the children to the doctors are on here... no one else even blinks an eye about it.

I am taking them to the allergist I am not authorizing a lobotomy.

your understanding of involved parents might ve different from mine. i don't consider a parent who sees his/her children EW, EOW, once a month, 3 months out of the year etc uninvolved parent. I consider it NCP. So I don't think that mom who sees a kid EOW is uninvolved. Not heavily involved definitelly but not "abandoned" a child kind of mom. So the fact that my X lives very far away geographically doesn't make him less of a parent and doesn't make any other man to go and discuss DD's private matters. My BF would drive DD to appt but he wouldn't start saying that my X abandoned a kid and now BF is a parent. excuse me, but no.

As about the fact that therapist cannot talk to BM...Therapist, psychologist etc couldn't talk to DD's dad either due to a distance, but it doesn't mean therapist will have to talk to my partners. Therapist talked to me. same with dentist or orthodontist that X took care of. I could never talk to her dentist because it is on my X's location but it doesn't m,ean that any other people needed to go and sicuss her dental issues. X did that. My point is that if one parent is unavailable, there is another parent. If SD's therapist needs to talk to a parent and mom is not there for a moment, then there is a dad. if both parents unexistant then there is a different story...

I mentioned that DD went to see a psychologist at some point. Just to clarify that sometimes lol people's desire to see a psychologist is nothing to do with family or stepmoms or parents or whatever else. There is more to life that talking about SMs. lol And frankly at teenage age boys/girls have private matters that are nobody else's business sometimes not even parents' and definitelly not SM s'.

As about 8 year old "authorizing" therapists to talk to SMs. You kidding right? 8 year old child doesn't have understanding what needs to be discussed with whom.

"Posted by kkny (My Page) on Sun, Feb 3, 08 at 11:02

I have an aupair so I can leave for work at 6:30 for a high paying job in the city. I can minimize time away from DD while she is awake, but I need someone to drive her to shcool (no buses where we live) and help if she is out sick, needs to go to doctor "

SEE TOS....KKNY does not have to call off work, she pays someone to "help" if her daughter is sick or needs to go to the doctor. My dh does not have to pay me, I willingly do it!!! So if you don't jump on KKNY for keeping her "high paying job" by having an au pair take care of her child at times why do you jump on me for doing things while my dh works since his job is higher paying than mine? And he does not even get 1/3 of the sick days I get a year. As for the kids getting sick a lot, well the children rarely get sick but when they do I am the one to stay home. The oldest has braces and has orthadontist appts. regularly (which I take her to right after work, while my dh is at his job).

Since the bm in the picture lives across the country we can not exactly call her and ask her to take off work to watch the kids (OH WAIT SHE DOES NOT EVEN HAVE A JOB.....)
so I AM THE MOM HERE and why should it matter to you that I take off work instead of my dh? When will you accept that the bm in this situation in uninvolved and the kids and my dh consider me their mom? It makes no difference who does what in our home, WE ARE BOTH THE PARENTS!!!!!!!!!

Sorry you can not get over the whole part where the exwife gave birth to the kids....but thats about all she did for these kids! If you want to talk about raising them and mothering them I did all that....which is a heck of a lot more work then giving birth and then running away a few years later to be with some joe shmoe!

Mom2emall,

If you are saying you do what my aupair does, you are no more a parent than she is (and she is a delightful responsible young woman). She accepts that I am the parent, and she is very helpful, but not for one minute would she say she is the mom.

You missed the whole point.... playing semantics... you pay someone to do what we do.

No your Au pair is not a parent but we are ... thats why we have the title step parents.

Its not au pairent.

It is "STEPparent" Ok, not parent, except in very unusual situations you have no more legal rights than my aupair.

And mom2emall was saying she does what my aupair does

it is not semanthics. doing something for the kid like driving to appt, babysitting, cooking meals etc doesn't necesarilly make one a parent. if you divorce your DH you stop being a parent pretty much the next day, but we've been through this discussion before.

No I don't stop being a parent I do have my own children I just stop "parenting" his children.

The whole point was giving others grief for taking children to appts. but kkny has her au pair do it and thats ok, but we take them and get grief why is ok for her au pair to take children to appts but its not ok for SP to take children... I will remind you we have the children full-time.

If I had legal rights to them would they be obligated to pay off my parents debt with any future inheritences???

Ok define what a parent is??? what makes a parent a parent

This should be interesting... :)

it is being overly technical and picking out only what she wrote on that specific entry.... when we all know from previous posts that mom2emall is essentially mom... Bio mom chose to leave her kids and mom2emall does everything for her kids... as she has stated over and over again... even her kids consider her more of a mom than bio mom... and the only person's fault that is is bio mom for making the decisions that she has made. And I sincerely doubt that especially in this situation even if there was a divorce the mom2emall would stop being a parental figure to those kids... I am quite certain that mom2emall could write a list a mile long of what she does for her kids in only a weeks time frame... but that would be ridiculous.

I think it comes down to the same arguement ... giving birth or donating semen does not make you a parent in makes you an incubator or a donor. It is everything that comes after that that makes you a parent ... a mommy a daddy.

And BTW.. I have taken my kids to doctors appointments, dentist appointments... you name it I have done it. And for some of the same reasons... my job is fairly flexible... I get way more PTO time than he does so I can afford to take time off... and if it came down to it I could work from home if I had to on a specific day. Also, BM in our situation is famous for making an appointment and then declaring we have to take them because she can't even though DH told her the times he would be available and it doesnt even remotely coincide with those times... so it is either I take them to the appointment or the cancellation/no show (because it is always at the last minute) fee is charged to us ... because guess what it is our insurance. At this point because she has done it so many times I usually just plan on having to take them and that way I am not rushing at the last minute.

Involved- Knows what's going on in the child's life. Calls to find out if the child is okay or at least answers the phone when called by the child. Goes to school conferences and events or at least asks for the progress report/report card & shows an interest in what the child is doing.

Uninvolved- Absent. Doesn't call. Rarely visits. Doesn't really know what's going on in the child's life. Doesn't inquire about school, health or extra curricular activities the child is involved in. May spend time with the child but not involved in much more than having fun. Doesn't help with homework during visits, leaves that for CP/SP.

I don't think my stepdaughter's mom is completely uninvolved but she isn't here day to day to do anything for her daughter. She sits three hours away with her new boyfriend, demanding that we do things her way and threatens us with court if DH says no. My husband doesn't have ANY sick pay. He gets a low hourly wage but works for commissions. If he misses a day here or there (and he works an hour away so even a short doctor visit means he could miss half a day's work), he doesn't get paid at all when he's not there.

and I didn't say an 8 year old 'authorizes' her therapist to talk to SM. I said that the therapist won't discuss what SD says in her sessions without her permission. Her counseling is 'confidential' and what is said is not discussed unless the counselor feels there is something reportable. Otherwise, SD is assured that her sessions are confidential so she will feel comfortable talking freely. If the counselor wants to tell me, DH, BM or anyone else (it's usually me because I pick her up), then she'll ask SD, do you mind if I tell SM what you told me? She doesn't break her confidentiality. The therapist doesn't discuss everything that is said. And BM doesn't want to meet with her therapist because she found out on the first visit, where she coached SD into saying she wanted to live with BM, the the therapist knew SD was being coached. If BM can't manipulate the situation, she backs off. BM has no interest in helping or guiding her daughter through the trauma of her leaving.

And I don't know how you define abandonment, but when a parent has their child every other week and calling during the weeks they don't have her, and all of a sudden, without any warning, packs up and moves several hours away and is no longer there every other week and doesn't call at all, and doesn't answer her phone or write back when she sends a letter, I think most young children would feel abandoned. Especially a young girl that is close to her mother. Especially after the mother had been telling the little girl for months that she wanted her to live with her and that daddy is trying to take you away and I won't let that happen. Then a month later, she leaves. I call that abandonment. That's more of an abandonment than my kids that were left and NEVER saw their father's. At least the father's didn't come into their lives, build a bond & hope and then leave and shatter their world. My kids were abandoned but they don't know what it feels like to be left and I think that's much worse. It's harder to miss something you never had than to lose something you want more than anything.

both parents cannot be there doing things day to day for their chidlren, unless of course they live together. so it is expected that one parent will not be there day to day.

as about your BM, she does sound crazy but you change your story about her. you tell us how much crap SD brings home, all this sexual stuff, etc then it means SD goes there right? and you discuss all this with other BM how kids are treated in BM's and BF's house. you wanted to report Bm to CPS for abuse. there can't be any abuse if SD never goes there. so which one is it? is SD there EW or she is almost never there. If she is almost never there you can't say she learns bad stuff from BM. You contradict yourself depends on what is discussion about.

"Posted by kkny (My Page) on Wed, Feb 6, 08 at 9:30

Mom2emall,
If you are saying you do what my aupair does, you are no more a parent than she is (and she is a delightful responsible young woman). She accepts that I am the parent, and she is very helpful, but not for one minute would she say she is the mom. "

My point, KKNY, was to TOS. My point was that TOs has no problem with a BM hiring someone to take dd places and take care of dd becasue bm has to work. But, then TOS has an issue with sm's doing those things for skids because dad has to work. Double standard! If my dh only had kids eow and he worked all weekend then I could see the problem. But, as you know that is not the situation.

As far as your aupair, obviously she would not try to be your dd's mom.....your home with your dd each day! My situation is VERY different from yours. As hard as it may be to imagine, the bm in this situation chose to not "mother" her children and left that job. I came along and fell in love with the whole package (dh and kids) and picked up bm's slack. Her fault....I did not cause this.

"as about your BM, she does sound crazy but you change your story about her. you tell us how much crap SD brings home, all this sexual stuff, etc then it means SD goes there right? and you discuss all this with other BM how kids are treated in BM's and BF's house. you wanted to report Bm to CPS for abuse. there can't be any abuse if SD never goes there. so which one is it? is SD there EW or she is almost never there. If she is almost never there you can't say she learns bad stuff from BM. You contradict yourself depends on what is discussion about."

How am I contradicting myself? I have said she goes to BM's the first three Weekends of each month. I've said that "I don't think my stepdaughter's mom is completely uninvolved" because she does see her. She doesn't call her during the week. She doesn't answer her phone when SD calls her. She doesn't think it's important for her to do well in school apparently (as evidenced by her doing her daughter's work last year so she didn't know any of her math concepts this year and was way behind. She also takes her out of school early whenever it suits her, and last year, she would let her stay home or pick her up early for no reason. And this year, if SD brings homework to BM's on Friday that needs to be done over the weekend, BM tells her to do it when she goes home because it interferes with 'their' time.) BM doesn't inquire about how SD is doing in counseling or in any other activities she's involved in. I'm not saying she's completely uninvolved, but she chose to move away. She knows my husband has worked in the same place for 20 years and that by leaving the area, that I would be taking on the responsibilities for her daughter, including taking her to doctor appointments, counseling, school, and extra curricular activities. Yet, for the last five months, she's constantly been hostile toward me, yelling at me that I am not her child's mother and I'm keeping her from her 'baby' because I won't ask how high when she barks JUMP! But, if you want to say that because she plays 'disneyland mama' a few weekends a month, that it makes her an involved parent that has the right to criticize my involvement, then I have to respectfully disagree with you. She is not what I consider an involved parent. Sorry. (and I found out today that if BM and her BF have plans on their weekends, they drop off the kids with her BF's parents, so they aren't even spending 'their' time with the kids. Nice huh?)

kkny's au pair drives her daughter to appointments - that is a lot different from accompanying her to appointments, sitting in the room, talking to the doctor, etc. You could hire a taxi to take your child to an appointment, but that wouldn't make the taxi driver a parental figure.

And I think homework DOES take away from family time. A lot of assigned homework is just busy work, and often does nothing to increase the children's knowledge. I would much rather they be playing outside, having a conversation with me or their siblings, or reading a book.

I am surprised third grade teachers assign homework for the weekend. It is weird. But in any case three weekends a month is a normal NCP arrangement. Many NCP parents do not call during the week. She might not be a perfect mom, she obviously is not, but who is? It is wrong to pick a kid up early, agree. But three wekends a month is a reasonable arrangement for NCP. When I and X still lived in geographically reasonable proximity, DD went to dad EW. It never occured to me to make her take her homework with her. It didn't make X a bad parent. If i have her 5 days a week and he had her only 2 days, why would she waste that precious time doing homework? Your BM does sound crazy but you don't have to make her sound even more crazy than she is.

kkny, your child is probably old enough to see a doctor alone, although when I was 17 and pregnant, I could see my ob/gyn alone for pregnancy related care but not see a doctor for a cold without a parent's consent. If she is old enough to give the doctor the information he needs and to understand the doctor's instructions, then that's not the same as an 8 year old. My husband would have to take unpaid time from work to take her and when her mom lived nearby, she would take her since she didn't work. Now that she's gone, I take her. (and I pay for it as well, BM never sends a dime) IMO, if she doesn't want me taking her daughter to the doctor, she can bring her happy ass down here and take her herself. It makes no difference to me. I'm doing it because she left. (Besides, she didn't complain about me taking her as long as I paid for it. Maybe that makes it okay?)

and she isn't 'assigned' homework on the weekends. She brings home her folder for the week and is supposed to make corrections on the pages where the teacher writes 'correct' or 'redo'. Sometimes, she doesn't have any but when she does, it wouldn't take BM fifteen minutes to help her with. The only reason it's a problem is we pick her up at six on Sunday and have a long drive home. If BM doesn't feed her dinner, we usually have to stop to eat and usually get home after nine o'clock. SD is really tired when she gets home and takes her shower & goes to bed. If she has work to correct, the only option is to keep her up later to finish it or get her up early to work on it before school.

and fine, I'm not trying to make her sound crazier than she is. I'm in disbelief at the things she's been doing. She plants SD in front of the TV while she takes long showers with her BF. Couldn't she put her at the kitchen table to do her homework while she takes her long showers with BF? I guess now she's badmouthing her BF's ex wife to their kids. It just keeps getting worse.

why kkny's 16 year ols is old enough to go see a doctor alone (first of all how is she going to get there without a car?) and yet you needed parental concent? No, she is not old enough at age 16 plus she is on her parents' health insurance. Plus you don't know what kind of doctors her DD needs to see. DD was nervous to go to ob/gyn the first time even if she was old enough, it is not a particularly comforting trip for a young lady.

why kkny's 16 year ols is old enough to go see a doctor alone and yet you needed parental concent? She isn't seeing a doctor for pregnancy so she most definitelly needs a concent. Plus how is she going to get to a doctor without a car? Not every kid has a car at age 16. Mine didn't and actually still doesn't. No, she is not old enough at age 16 plus she is on her parents' health insurance.

I think that if you pay attention to every little thing that the other parent does, you are going to get an ulcer. I have learned to let X just be X. As DD comments re:weird X's behavior: dad is just being dad. You really don't need to always worry what BM does with BF. I mean there is a reasonable concern, but this is way too much especially in regards to showers. DD never in 16 years of growing up in a divorced family told me when her dad takes showers and with who. And I wouldn't care to know. And I wouldn't want somebody to judge that I put my DD in front of TV while i did something else. You bet in 20 years of her life I did put her in front of TV so i can get a break. So what? You clearly dislike BM a LOT, and you say she hates you but I think it is mutual. You seem to be in her business a lot, even calling her boyfriend's exwife. I can't see my X's wife calling my BF's x-wife to discuss what DD does when she is with me. You bet I would dislike her activelly should that ever occur. I think that maybe by stepping aside a bit you would improve a situation.

Oh forget it. I'm tired of being misunderstood and having to explain what I mean. Are you trying to start an argument?

1. KKNY said her daughter is 15. 16, not much different. She has an au pair. I didn't mean get herself there 'alone', I meant go into the room w/ doctor alone. I would trust a 15-16 year old to understand the doctor's instructions, I wouldn't trust an 8 year old. TOS pointed out that "kkny's au pair drives her daughter to appointments - that is a lot different from accompanying her to appointments, sitting in the room, talking to the doctor, etc. You could hire a taxi to take your child to an appointment, but that wouldn't make the taxi driver a parental figure."

That's fine if you are talking about a teenager, but not when talking about an 8 year old.

2. If the au pair takes her, I assume KKNY gives consent at some point. I wasn't suggesting she go to an ob/gyn alone. I was only pointing out that by law, (in my state at least) I didn't need consent to get pregnancy related care, but I did have to have my mom's permission to see the doctor for a cold.