What I wanted to add is that I consider these girls friends, and I love them very much..They are great kids, good decision makers, great students and have never given us any major trouble.

We have certainly had our moments that we disagreed but overall I consider things pretty good. I have a DD who lives at home also, and the relationship towards her has been aloof for awhile.

They were "off" through the holidays, sort of removed. I have come to the conclusion that it is their way of disconnecting before the move actually happens, but it hurts.

Maybe after they talk with their father about it and think on it for a while they may change their minds. If they don't, I think if you love them then let them go. Maybe it's time for them to be with mom and reconnect. It's my assumption that the 16 year old is still in high school so I am surprised that she would want to leave her school and friends with such a short time before graduating. As for the financial end of it, it will be difficult but it's in their best interest to let them be with their mother if that is their wish.

I agree, the grass may look greener with mom... at the moment. That may change if and when they do move. They may decide the hate it there, miss their friends, etc. Teenagers don't always think about the consequences of their actions and they are not going to think about how it will impact dad or you financially, with insurance or child support. Those are adult issues and should not be a part of the decision making process. If mom was a deadbeat, then dad should pursue collecting what she owes. If he ends up having to pay support, then he will have to manage. Perhaps they can agree to an offset on support she owes. The amount of support can't be known until the time split is known and everyone's income is disclosed. As for keeping her on your insurance, some companies will allow it and she can find a provider in the new area. To cut her off just because she is moving and you don't want to pay for premiums if she isn't living with you, is punishing her. It's more than likely that any insurance premiums paid may lower the amount of support your DH may have to pay.

It sounds like you are more disappointed that you have been the responsible ones for the last five years and all of a sudden, it's a slap in the face for them to run off into the sunset with mom that hasn't supported them or provided the things you have taken care of. Being a step parent (or sometimes being the parent) is a thankless job at times and it's hard when kids are growing up, becoming independent thinkers and want to do things we don't want them to do. The more you fight it, the more they will fight FOR it. If you let it go and wish them the best, don't make waves... they may decide it really isn't all it's cracked up to be and decide to come back. Maybe not.

I wouldn't tell the 19 year old that you are cutting off her educational assistance BECAUSE she & her sister are moving.. that's emotional blackmail. If finances become tight because your DH has to pay support, then I would explain that your finances have changed and you are not able to help as much. However, it is WRONG WRONG WRONG to cut off helping with her education, as punishment because she isn't doing what you or your DH want.

My hope is insurance will not be an issue, my DH or I have carried it for the last 10 years (me just recently as DH insurance is not good). I have no issue continuing coverage, my concern would be after the fact, would the insurance question why my stepkids live 5 states away, I have no legal responsibility to cover them, but I do because they live with us and don't want any surprises.

The ex is now up to date on CS as they confiscated income tax last year.. so for the most part she is up to date.. maybe $100 behind and $200 behind on medical.

The education assistance is a very tricky conversation. This will not be emotional blackmai, it's a fact but I know exactly what you are saying. He honestly feels that it's a conversation that has to happen before they make a final decision. Simpy stated, after we lose what she pays us, which isn't alot and is sporatic at best and my DH pays her we no longer can afford tuition. This will not be a punishment, our intent is not to stop them, as you said, if we say no or fight, they will want to go all the more. But we believe that there is alot of secrecy regarding this decision, and I am assuming that many of the people involved are assuming alot of things. DH believes she has to know that this decision will change our financial situation. My fear is that she will view it as a punishment. My DH is very level headed/calm, he does not overreact emotionally which is one of my favorite qualities of his, I know his conversation with them will simply state the facts.

We are hoping that he can have this conversation this week. We can't win either way unfortunately, if they do indeed move, he will be devasted, he is a great dad.

THey are old enough to decide where they want to go. I know your dh will be hurt..he does sound like a great dad..but int he end, his girls are growing up and they have to leave the nest sooner or later.
BUt if they decide to leave, Make it very clear as to what will happen.
1. No financial support for school on the older one because of CS being paid for the 16 year old.
2. You insurance may give you a notice that coverage will be dropped. Period.That will be out of your control.
3.I would not go to court to arrange CS yet. I would give them both a test period of a month or so...because the last thing you want is for them to change their mind after all the legal papers are set and then they both come back to you..or one comes back home and you have to whined up goijg back to cut support and have to chase ex for the cash!
Soo...let them have their greener grass for now..but wait a few month...1-3 months..a semester maybe to see if they are rock solid in their decision to stay with mom and live their lives there. Then you can put the money aside for BM when the decision is final and give her the back money owed to her.
Make it clear to both daughters its not a punishment. You are not gonig to stop them BUT no cell phone anymore, medical insu may stop because they are far away and the company may refuse and 19 year old will foot the bill for college since you will begin to pay CS for 16 year old. Its logical.
I can see the 19 year old getting pist and the 16 year old being ok with it.

janemarie, I feel for you and your husband.

this situation sounds familiar, only roles are reversed. there is a poster here, nicksmom, whose stepchildren lived wiht their mother and mom was custodial parent since they were like 4 or so.

Then in their teenage years they decided (or dad helped them to decide) to move in with dad. Mom was of course hurt and upset. Well as i recall, every stepparent here said that it is children's choice to live where they want to and it is selfish of mom to try stop them. And, well, mom was accussed of every possible sin. of course she was told to pay child support as soon as kids were moved. Mom did try to stop, but facing lengthy custody court battle mom gave up her custody without much fight.

My position on that issue was that mom raised them all these years when they were young and they only went to dads for fun vacations, and now when tough times of raising children are over, then they want to have fun at dads. that's how your husband probably feels. Their mother was hurt. I feel the same about your situation. Your Dh and you raised them and now when they almost grown they are moving.

yes mom probbaly would make you pay child support. Nicksmom's husband made mom to pay child support as soon as he got custody.

You'll probably get very different advice from people here than what nicksmom got. this forum is a bit biased against biomothers in favor of fathers and stepmoms.

I have no biases so i totally feel for you. I would not per se try to stop them. I would try to find out though what really makes them to move? what mom or stepdad tells them, what promices are made and what trully is behind all that.

also if mom wants them to move, then she should think of cell phone plans and health insurance. as about education both parents could be involved in that.

One quick note: could it be that mom wants them to move because she hopes to colect CS?

Another thing that I think is not being considered, but should be, is that if they are moving from one State to another, it may take awhile for the 19 Year Old to qualify for in-state tuition at the Colleges in the state she is moving to. I faced that problem when I moved with my Mom after High School to a new state. I actually had to go back to the State I grew up in for school for 1 year before my Mom was able to establish residency in her State and I was able to qualify for in-State tuition there.

I think they are both old enough that your husband should be able to have a frank discussion with them both about finances and what the consequences of their moving will have on your financial situation, and therefore, your ability to continue to provide them with the extras they have become accustomed to. They are old enough to know and they are old enough to be show how decision making effects finances. As long as he makes it clear that they are free to make whatever decision they want to make and that his intention is not to punish, rather than to make the most of what he has and that the only reason he was able to do these things is because they lived with him. I see nothing wrong with being honest and forthright about what the situation is.

finedreams-

If you want to post about my situation, may I kindly ask that you get your facts straight? Otherwise, stop running your mouth, especially when you post inaccurate information.

janemarie-
Welcome. I am the nicksmom that finedreams posted about. Although our situation is similar, finedreams has her facts wrong, as usual. My DH, too is a wonderful dad. He was the same wonderful dad when he was a NCP. And he remains so as a custodial parent. He is very involved..doesn't miss a sporting event, is helping to build the set for SD's upcoming theater performance, etc.

His exwife (biomom) moved the kids (my stepkids) 5 states away when they were 5 & 8 years old. They have been flying back & forth since then. They spent summers here and Spring Breaks, 1/2 of Christmas, etc. When SS was in 7th grade, he started asking about returning to Michigan for high school. DH suggested that he had another year of middle school, and if he still felt the same way in 8th grade, we'd talk more about it. He continued to discuss it with DH, and after a year of contemplation and considering pros/cons, felt like it's what he really wanted. He came here for high school, had a stellar hockey career, and is now a freshman in college.

When SD was in 5th grade, she started talking about coming here for high school....in 5th grade! She had already done the math and felt that after 9 years in NC, she would want to come here for high school, too. We encouraged her to give it time, she had lots of it! In middle school, she was insistent. We had her do pros/cons. We had hoped that she would be able to discuss it with her mom, but she couldn't ever really get anywhere, as mom was too upset by the fact that both of her kids wanted to spend some of their childhood with their dad. So it did become a court battle. Mom didn't give up easily as finedreams suggested. It was a lengthy, expensive court battle....to the tune of nearly $10K.

And as much as finedreams would like to make me (or my DH) look bad by posting lies...never has there been a court order for child support. DH (of course!!) paid child support when mom was CP, but when SS came to live with us and SD was still w/Mom, they agreed that neither would pay CS. Mom is an unsuccessful realtor, and has had no significant income for several years. There was no point in asking for CS, as it would have likely been about $25/mo. So, we do NOT recieve child support, never have, never will (unless mom becomes a realtor to the stars sometime soon!)

As for your situation, could it be that your SD16 just needs to re-connect with her mom? I know that my SD just felt like she had spent 9 years w/Mom and it was all good. But she really wants to spend quality time with Dad before she heads off to college...before she's an adult. She said she wants her dad to see her perform, and play volleyball and sing. She wants to look out and see him on the sidelines cheering for her, or in the audience for the standing ovation. It was really pretty basic. I think kids of divorce (especially those who are forced into a long distance situation) tend to sense a lack of connection with the far-away parent, and one way to remedy that is by a move to that parent.

If only parents could have a little bit of foresight before they make such drastic moves. A lot of heartache could be avoided.

If you and DH have a good relationship w/Mom and with the girls, could you all sit down and discuss it? Has she given any thought to starting at a new school? New sports teams? If Mom is going for a job change or a promotion, maybe CS won't even be an issue. Sometimes it is a "grass is greener" issue...sometimes it isn't.

As for expenses, they are old enough to learn about finances and expenses. You don't want them to think that you are punishing them by taking away cell phones, tuition, etc. But they should know that you simply will not be able to afford those things, if that is the case. And maybe Mom needs to know that, too.

I hope that you can come up with something that's workable for all of you.

This must be a hard situation for you. This situation is one of my fears in the future. You do all the hard work and when the harder years are gone the other parent wants the kids to live with them! And they promise the kids the world to lure them there. Meanwhile they have been a poor parent for most of the child's life!

My stepkids bm tried luring them into wanting to live with her when she moved out of state a few years ago. The only time she actually organized them visiting her out of state (well really her parents organized it)she tried her best to lure them there. Made promises of some big house with a pool, their own bedrooms, new bedroom furniture, warmer climate, and close to bm's relatives. She even told the oldest that she was almost old enough to tell a judge that she wanted to live with bm! Kids said bm kept saying "wouldn't you love to live here?" After they left she kept telling them how much the relatives missed them and wished they lived there.

The whole thing made me sick! When her ploy did not stir anything up she crawled back into her cave and went into her normal routine of not calling for months.

Well, DH talked to girls last night (I was still at work and preferred it that way) It actually went ok. 19 year seems to have the situation under control, has applied to the state the her Bio mom hopes to go, her biomom said she would cosign school loans and seems to have everything taken care of. Said she hates the school she is attending, wants a change, wants to get into program specific to her field. Said she planned to come home summers/holidays.. I realize what she thinks will happen and what actually does could be 2 different things. She was fine with DH telling her that he can make no promises about what he can afford financially, he will help where he can but he will not cosign loans as his job has cut back and threatening layoffs. The school she wants to attend is 6 hours from the town that her mother wants to move to.

16 y/o said she hadn't made up her mind, it would depend when it happened (middle of school year she would not go) and was choked up at certain points.. Clearly she is in duress about this decision.. It is alittle different for a 19 y/o who wants to go see the world and a 16 yr old who is in the middle of high school. DH told them he would not stop them, he did not want them to go, that we have been the consistent supporters and we did want them to pull away from us and chose 1 side, basically said go if you want but don't make us the enemies (16 y/o was very aloof through the holidays and we were very upset but didn't say much) They have both been hot/cold for several months and we knew something was brewing.

We do not have a good relationship with biomom. As in many situations here. She is available when it suits her and is manipulative. That she is offering the world to the girls to get them to go is so disgusting to me as this is the same woman that would not pay for braces, we helped with car purchases, we pay health insurance, the copays, applications processes for colleges.. all the things that parents do.. She only works part time because she tells people that she doesn't want to pay child support based on a full time job, and takes 1 class at a time and tells court she is a student..It's OK that I work full time, pay for health insurance though...No.. I'm not bitter :)
Now that she wants to move she is offering the world.. It is what it is.. I can't change it, it is upsetting. We are not going to throw money at the girls to get them to stay or make promises. We have consistently been here and let's face it, they may want to spend this chunk of their lives with their mother and may miss the connection. Of course, I know she only gives when she will get something in return. And if she is finally willing to financially support her child because obviously if they go, she doesn't really have a choice, that's great too..

It's like here is the everyday humdrum life or you can pick door #2 where there is a brand new house, brand new life, warm climate, promises that may or may not happen. We cannot compete, and let's be honest, I am probably alittle bit jealous in some ways.. and angry.. and hurt.. you can't fight stuff like this, you look like the bad guy. They are old enough... and they might go and think they made the best decision of their life and I would still be happy that they were happy... But they will miss out on the everyday stuff, and we will too..

So, I will check in and give you updates as they happen. Thanks for letting me vent.

Although it is a difficult situation, it sounds like you guys have your heads wrapped around it. It's good to have it out on the table so your girls can talk about it and share the feelings and concerns. You and DH are handling it perfectly. Continue to do that...take the moral high ground. My DH has always done that with my stepkids. Of course, he was thrilled when they started talking about wanting to be here, but he never, ever pushed them. On the contrary, he told them that unless the pros outweighed the cons, he didn't think it was a good idea. There were never promises of anything. They got the promises at the other end, from Mom, if they would change their mind "and not leave her". What a heavy burden for your kids. So, keep doing what you're doing. It will pay off in the end. The kids will know who they can depend on. They will also know who keeps their best interest at heart. In the end, they will know that all the "stuff" they are promised, warmer weather, etc isn't what's important. And, more importantly, they will know who they can be honest with. And it won't be the parent who is trying to bribe them or guilt them into doing something that doesn't feel right to them. Encourage them to be true to themselves, and to follow their heart.

Hang in there and keep us posted.

well 19-year-old would be out of the house soon anyways...college and stuff, she is pretty much grown... but 16-year-old might still change her mind.
it hurts but things like that happens in divorced families... it is tough. I hope it works the best for the kids and for you both.
keep posting

I do completely understand the concerns about logistics & financials, and I'd definitely agree that a very frank and serious discussion of exactly what this decision will mean for the whole family is appropriate from a pragmatic point of view. I also have sympathy for what probably does FEEL LIKE hurt for the girls' Dad. But it's sooooooo sooooooo important to not take their decision personally, to not let it be something that you or he regard as hurtful or imsulting. There are many many possible explanations here, none of which need be at all personally hurtful to you or DH:

-the one girl is already college-aged and doesn't like the school she's in and wants to explore a different one which happens to be nearer to where her mom lives

-the 16-year-old may feel so close to her sister that she wants to go with her no matter what (and probably tag along for whatever "cool, older" fun the other one finds)

-one or both may be getting pressure from Mom to move there, perhaps Mom is expressing the exact same thing your husband is expressing: hurt that the girls haven't chosen to move near her already.

Please understand that children of divorce are automatically in a double-bind, much like divorced parents in blended families. It can seem downright impossible to please both of their divorced parents at the same time. They make a choice which pleases one parent and the other parent feels hurt, and vice versa, and sadly some parents milk this to control the kids and/or the other parent. From the kid's perspective, this can be absolutely agonizing. It's not fair to even imply a guilt trip on the kids in circumstances like these as though they are doing something deliberately cruel by making what is likely a tough decision for them, knowing and dreading that one parent will be disappointed. Especially at this age when they, like all of us, are trying to figure out the next best steps to take and how to be as 'fair' to everyone as possible and likely not knowing exactly what all the best choices are.

I think in this situation it would be most helpful to view this as though there was not another parent in the picture, but as though these girls were your own bio-kids. Fact is, 19 is past the age most kids are off to college anyway. Fact is, as much as kids may love their parents (bio and/or step) and get along with them wonderfully, teenagers are generally quite anxious to grow up and venture out and they generally thrive on novelty. Therefore it's no more a deliberately hurtful choice these SDs are making than it would be for any red-blooded teenager who's starting to fantasize about new horizons beyond the home they've grown up in.

You're right to have pragmatic concerns about the move and you're certainly entitled to feel what you want to feel about it. But you & DH would only be hurting yourselves and adding undue strain on the relationship with SD's to take it to the level of being deeply personally HURT by it.