Just a note:
I do not talk to the kids at night since the ranting letters we received. However, it has not improved BM hostility towards us. She now does not even communicated, talk, with BD and has now resorted to sending messages through the children.

Newwithkids, just how do you know that the kids are not tyring to get out of homework, etc? Becuase they tell you? The mom shouldnt have to justity life at her house.

"unneccesary things like phone calls about homework." HA. It's called communicating with your kids. It's called involvement. "

just to clarufy...these aren't her kids.

"I have always and will always feel that when I married my skids dad I also married them "

You are not married to the skids. I think statements like this indicate you are overstepping boundaries. Possibly statements like irritate the mother. I really think you need to step back.

exactly. you have no clue if kids are trying to get out of their obligations are not. my DD is in college and grown but she was home for Christams break, some of her classes are a year long so she did have assignements to do over the break. guess what, every time she remembered about it, she would come wiht something else urgent to do and yes on some occassions it was: let's call to XYZ and talk about ABC for half an hour. And she does not even like to talk on the phone under normal circumstances!!! DD is grown and is a good student so of course it is not a problem if she does that, I was just lauighing wiht her about her work avoidance. but it is very different wiht minor children. of course they would rather talk on the phone then do whatever else like maybe brushing their teeth.

and yes no one knows what is going on in mom's house. maybe rules had to be changed because kids are older and refuse to listen to moms aftre talking to dad, maybe there is more homework maybe who knows what.

probably mom stopped communicating because dad does not listen and keeps pushing and now SM is involved in every step and is pushing too. who knows maybe mom got frustrated. some X husbands could be a pain.

Our wedding (and many others do) included a ceremony with our children. We made vows to the children. It might 'irritate' a parent to have an involved stepparent... as I've said, I didn't necessarily like that my son's step mom was as involved as she was (he was told to call her mamalisa). But, he is not a piece of property that I owned and my hurt grown up feelings were not as important as his little boy feelings if he wanted to call her mama, or if he wanted to talk to her or if he wanted her to be involved with his life. As for me liking her or agreeing with her morals or values, I don't have to like her or her values. If she is being good to my son, that's all I need to worry about. If she isn't, then I have a say in it.

It's funny how there are sometimes different rules. My SD's mom feels it's 'overstepping' for me to do anything fun with her daughter where her daughter might enjoy spending time with me. (I'm sure it isn't jealousy) But, she thinks it's perfectly fine to tell her kids (and her BF's kids) to call her BF Dad and her Mom when they are all there... who's pretending to be a 'real' family?

I just remember when DD was in 6-7th grade whenever she didn't like my rules she wanted to call grandma. Not X, X would reenforce my rules, but grandma. every time. "i am going to call grandma" because whatever she didn't like. she hoped garndma would get her out of whatever mess she got in. lol lol It didn't work because grandma would support my decisions. But DD tried.

maybe that's what SKs do, who knows.

so you married the SKs. and if you get divorced, would you divorce them too? this just does not make any sense.

ima your situation is irrelevant. you are raising SD full time. OP does not. and in her situation BM is involved. you keep bringing your situation to every topic, but it is a totally different story.

of course it is great to have nice stepparent. however involvement by itself does not mean much. if there is a serious conflict of values occur such as criminal activities, domestic abuse, violence, substance abuse etc it is our obligation to watch over our kids. i think it is immature to let whoever in children's lives just because they marry the parent. in some cases no involvement is better than involvement. marrying does not automatically means becoming a parent. it takes more than that.

A comment such as that kkny does not surprise me coming from you. As far as your writing you feel as though us SM's should be seen and not heard. What you have failed to realize is that we are in these childrens lives 50% of the time. Sharing in the day to days, emotions, bumps, problems, etc. I am a very intelligent person and am well aware these kids have one BM and one BD however I will continue to love them as if they are one of mine. To do any differently would be to underestimate the intelligence of the kids and their ability to know the difference.

Again I am there solely for the kids and their dad. Whatever BM decides to do in her home is strictly her right and I have NEVER disputed that fact. I am just trying to make sure that communication between BM and BD stay open for the childrens sake.

How do we know what the kids are saying is true?????? Did you really say this....... Ever heard of, "What ya doin?" Watchin TV..... Plus two of the three children have no homework, ever and none of them have any chores at their BM house. I am really starting to think you do no have any constructive advise besides back off because you can see no place in a childs life for a SM. Sad!!!!

Also FYI, when it comes to decisions that should be made collectively between BM and BD in regards to the kids, FYI I am hands off as is my husband hand off with my ex and I in decisions we make with our kids.

Do you not think a blended family is a really family? I am starting to wonder??????

FD, I was not so much talking about my situation as much as I think it's ironic when a mom has different rules for dad than for herself, whether she's CP or NCP.

You can make vows to a child, such as I will always be kind, fair etc. You are not married to a child. Marriage, as least in every state I know, is between 2 people, and can be terminated. X has every right to leave. Marriage is exclusive. Parenthoold can not ealily be terminated. I think saying things to children like I married you too, can result in the mom thinking this woman as no boundaries, I will have to make certain there are boudnaries.

The most telling parts of this post are:

1. that BD provides a phone for his kids so that he can communicate freely with them, and

2. BM hung up the phone on SM after SD specifically asked to speak to SM

3. These phone calls were not interrupting the children's routine; they WERE the routine

Really, there is no good or reasonable reason in Heaven or on Earth that an adult should hang up the phone on another person's call without at least explaining to the person on the other end why the phone call is being terminated.

For instance, let's say a 13 y/o girl is being contacted by an 18 y/o non-related boy. Don't we all agree that something inappropriate is probably going on there? If the parent of the girl wanted to terminate the phone call, said parent should get on the phone and say something to the effect of "I do not appreciate you contacting my daughter and if you contact her again in any way I will press charges against you" and then hang up. That way there is a clear understanding of what the rules are and the parent now can say they have asked the boy to not call again.

If KKNY and FD's theories about interrupting the routine were correct, there would be no good reason for BM to have been so rude. It would make no sense. What would make sense would be BM getting on the phone and telling SM "Hey, I just asked her to go clean up her room; can she talk to you about this tomorrow?" Simple and to the point and everyone has a clear understanding.

Ashley, I dont think moms have to ask permssion from SM -- moms house is moms house. Routines change.

And I suspect OP has really overstepped with the " I married the kids" and set up these boundary definitions issues.

Funny! The dad could be there every day and night while they were together but now if he calls to many times its a problem? This lady should be happy the dad calls as much as he does. At least he cares. I am curious if he pays child support to her? Yeah, I know it 50/50 but the system is a mess. One man paying $400.00 a month while another pays $25.00 a month is messed up.

You know what makes me shake my head in wonder? Ladies (mom's) who want men (dad's) to support the kid and spend time with the kid ON THEIR TERMS. Or how about the parents of these kids who remarry and the new spouse has to support them, take care of them while they visit and all that other BS but dont you DARE tell the kids what to do YOU ARE NOT THE PARENT!!! Not in my house babe!

Seriously, are we now tearing apart the poor woman because she had the kindness and foresight to consider the childrens feelings ask for their blessing and include them with the marriage commitment. What nonsense!!! Perhaps sm is overly involved for the comfort of bm... but really the only thing that she is currently illustrating is her own frustration and down right immaturity by acting the way she is now. Any mom worth her own salt wont worry about if sm is asking about hm (something I do all of the time btw) or talking to kid or any of the above. Any mom worth her salt would know that she is mom and the fact is she will always be mom and no one can take that place. This mom wouldnt be worried about such things as the new wife saying I made a commitment to you kids as well... etc etc.... this mom would be happy and relieved that dad didnt end up with some trash of a women who makes her kids lives a living hell. My guess is she is resentful because dad has finally really moved on and upset and insecure about her own world right now and is lashing out at the easiest target... the new woman that her ex husband and kids now love. It is not difficult to see why this would be hard on her. It is unacceptable to place the kids in the middle however.

jnm had a good response ... tell the kids something to the extent of mom said sm is not allowed to talk on the phone with you... I do not understand her reasoning for this but we have to respect moms wishes...in the meantime remember that this does not change our relationship (from sm) and if you want for added comfort .... here is a journal that you can take with you... if you feel like there is something you want to tell me about and you will forget just write it down and that way you can remind yourself later.

As far as communicating through the kids... we called bm every single time and said something to the extent (after talking over and over again about discussing things between adults not though the kids) for example sally said you are going to pick up the kids at 7 on sunday since you did not talk to me about this I will assume this is not the case until I hear from you directly... we will be ready at x time like usual.... eventually it forced her to communicate with us instead of the kids. Whenever the kids would come and say well mom and bf said x... we would tell them that is adult business and I am sorry you mother discussed it with you but we will not...it is not appropriate. On occasion we had to break down and explain some things to them... bf telling the kids that dh was trying to get him sent to jail (the most ludacris thing in the world)

kk
"Ashley, I dont think moms have to ask permssion from SM -- moms house is moms house. Routines change"

for someone who spouts from the etiquette books all of the time I would think basic common courtesy would be to get on the phone exactly as ashley mentioned... it has nothing to do with sm vs bm but rather basic human decency and being polite.

The problem is not that OP was considerate of the children's feelings, the problem is she overstepped. Instead of saying I will care, etc., she says she considers herself married to the children. This is ridiculous -- If I say I am married to someone the clear implication is that I dont consider them married to anyone else. Sounds to me like she gave the appearance of wanting to push mom out of the picture.

OP seems a little overinvolved and controlling.

But go ahead, advise her to docement. My guess is mom will bring to court the SM being married to the kids, SM will bring the hangup and the judge will say a pox on everyone, standard visitation -- Dad gets reasonable phone call, Mom must allow it, and SM gets the SM lecture.

"the judge will say a pox on everyone, standard visitation -- Dad gets reasonable phone call, Mom must allow it, and SM gets the SM lecture."

yeah, in kkland... now wake up!

kkny,

I AM Not literally married to the children. You really need to get a grip with your insecurities regarding SM. If you have read any of my post you would have the understanding that the furthest thing from my agenda is to EVER try to take moms place. Pathetic!!!!!!!!!

Of course, everyone knows she isnt married to the kids, but when she says things like that, it more than implies she is the one and only -- isnt that what marriage is about?

Good grief this is getting ridiculous.

Newwithkids, dont even waste your time or energy trying to explain anything to KKNY she is not a SM and finds it fun to rattle all of us with her nonsense.

no - she was trying to convey that when she married dad she 'married' the kids as well - they were a package deal and she willingly and knowingly accepted that. OP isn't like some moms we get through here who can't understand why they aren't more important to their new DH than his kids. You jump on any little thing you can you try to piss on this SM KK, and it's getting past pathetic. You are better than this - are you just in a funk the last few days?

goes back to your damned if you do, damned if you don't!

No, I am trying to explain why the children's mother may feel she must impose boundaries. But "Newwithkids" - a screen name which speaks volumes, go ahead, with your plans.

SM = wrong no matter what "we" do

BM = always right no matter what "they" do

If this OP had posted about how she couldn't understand why her SD's BM was pissed off because OP wouldn't talk to SD on the phone ...KKNY would try to prove the point that BM knows best right or wrong a BM always does "what is best for HER children".

"Married him and the kids knowing it was a package deal"

You didn't marry the kids ...
poor kids didn't get a choice
You knew he had kids when you married him ...
poor kids didn't get a choice

As you can see there is no reasoning with the unreasonable.

But doesn't a biomom really know what's best for her children?..I think I know what's best for my children and I think my stepchildren's mom knows what's best for her children...we may not agree on things but then again I think that's ok. My childrens stepmother would never think of being intrusive beyond what my wishes are. She's a gem and they are lucky to have her. In this case the OP wants something that maybe the biomom isn't ready to give. I don't know all of the details which is what makes this forum sometimes a little skewed. Maybe in time the biomom will adjust to her daughter wanting another mother figure in her life...if it were me and that was my daugher, I wouldn't grab a phone and hang up...I would speak with my ex and his wife and try and discuss what I wanted on my time with my children.. it could be simple if people would let it.

kk, you are entitled to explain why you think she may be imposing boundaries... but when I said what I thought (that she is imposing boundaries because she is jealous & insecure and/or treating her kids as if they are her personal property), you took it personally and defended the position that not all BM's are jealous & insecure. I agree, not all BM's are, but some are. Heck, I was not insecure as a mom but it still didn't feel great to see my son calling another woman mom. I think that's NORMAL. But, I never told him he couldn't or that he couldn't love her or that she couldn't be a part of his life.. as long as he wasn't being harmed.

What makes you think you know more than anyone else here, what is in the mind of the BM in OP's situation? You have argued with just about everyone here and have twisted words to fit your argument. I have to agree with JNM, you must be having a really bad week or something. Sorry if you are, but we are all entitled to our own view point.

Ima, thank you for your concern, I am having a great week. As to my twisting words, I dont think I could have dreamed up with "Newwithkids" said.

Some moms may be insecure, but a SM telling a child, I am getting married to you, with its implied exclusivity, may only make it worse.

There is a world of difference between vowing to always be kind and fair, and to be married.

If exclusivity is merely implied, then does it really exist? In my opinion, when I married my husband and his daughter (a package deal & I made vows to her to treat her as my own), it does not mean (to me or to her) that my relationship with her is exclusive. It doesn't imply anything, I straight up told her that I love her and will treat her as if she were my child. In other words, I will not treat her like a redheaded stepchild or like an outsider... she is part of our family. It doesn't remove her from her mom's family, it ADDS her to another family.. more people to love her. (and if her dad and I divorced, it does not mean I have to 'divorce' her. If she is grown, she will make her own decision on continuing a relationship with me. If she isn't grown, she will be able to make that decision when she grows up.)

If you think a SM telling a child that she married dad & child may make it worse because BM will see it's 'implied exclusivity', then that only supports my theory that the BM is insecure. Does she really think she can be replaced and shut out because another woman makes vows to her child? I knew my son was my son and loved me (and I was his mom & couldn't be replaced) no matter what he called his SM or no matter how close he got to her. (and I didn't 'like' her or like her values) If she had a 'marriage' ceremony & told him she married him as well as his dad, then it wouldn't change that I am his mom and nothing is ever going to change that. I don't think I would like it much but I know I wouldn't have told her she can't say that to him and I wouldn't have yanked the phone out of his hand so he can't talk to her. Sure, it would sting when he would tell me all the fun he had with his 'other mom' but I would smile & tell him I'm so happy for him because it sure the hell was better than him coming home & telling me how mean she is to him or how unhappy he is at his dad's house. That would have caused ME more grief than accepting that he had another woman in his life that loved him.

im,

thank you so for for being a voice of reason. kk's perversion of the truth in regards to my wanting to somehow replace BM or shove her out of the picture is just another example of kk's close minded/one sided thought process. I am really feel badly for her as she must have had quite a tramatic past experience with her ex's love. It really is dishearting to read her bitterness.

The bottom line is I love these kids and will provide only the best for them. BM will hopefully realize this sooner than later. We, my husband and I, have decided to continue to love and support the kids in the same manner as always with hopes that with more time BM will see past her feelings of hurt and anger and see that loving me, my kids, and the strong family we have doesn't not take away from her love for them or their love for her. She is their mom.

mom_of_4,

thank you so much for your insite on, "communicating through the kids". I explained what you and your husband did when your kids BM tried doing this and my husband thought it was a great idea. This way we hope it takes away from the kids feeling so torn. He said when they relay a message from BM he is just going to explain to them that this is something your mom and I need to discussion and I will give her a call so we can discuss it further. I will let you know how it goes. Thanks again :)

I think if you tell children that when you marry them when you marry their dad, sends them a very wrong message.

in unfortunate circumtances if that marriage ends, kids would think you terminate your marriage wiht them not only wiht their dad.

it puts way too much pressure on the children. they know that marriages end because mom and dad are no longer together. they would feel anxious about being married to SM. too much for children to comprehend.

also in intact family are parents married to their children? I don't think so. i certainly am not married to DD. and I doubt anyone of you feels married to their biochildren. so why is it OK to say such thing to stepkids?

and yes I'd like to hear judge's reaction to a statement that SM married DH's kids.

ashley i agreed that hanging up the phone was rude. I never said otherwise.

"yes I'd like to hear judge's reaction to a statement that SM married DH's kids."

When BM and DH were in their custody trial (before BM moved away), she had printed out my myspace page that had a photo of our wedding ceremony where the kids were a part of the ceremony & she showed where I wrote "my daughters are involved in karate" and she whined to the court that I was calling HER daughter my own because I didn't specify my daughter & my step daughter. The Judge admonished her and praised my involvement. I can get you the transcripts if you really want to know his exact words... but he had quite a lot of nice things to say to me and not much nice to say about BM... she stormed out of the courtroom.

Did you say you were marrried to the kids?

Ima,

Taken it its entirety, your children's mother may have shown herself to be less than responsible and the judge may have reacted accordingly.

Unless I missed it, here "Newwithkids" stepchildren's mothers hasnt shown to be irresponsible, and is allowing reasonable access.

Different situations. I am not convinced that NWK's step's mother is insecure -- she may just be concerned that NWK doesnt respect boudaries. In any event, the solution would be the same, for NWK to back down for the time being.

Her feelings about the one phone call a day are not unusual to me. I have a problem with my ex husband calling late at night and I do tell him that anything past 8:30 PM is too late for a kid..he's in bed or very nearly in bed at that time.

You should not talk to your SKs when they are at her house. You love them and they know that. They can catch-up with you when they get back. My ex husband is allowed reasonable phone access to our child, but if he were to re-marry, his wife would not. I wouldn't mind if my son asked to talk to a SM, but it would bug me if a SM talked to him on a daily basis. Visitation rights, etc are for the bio parent.

This is the photo she objected to, showing us having the kids as part of the ceremony.

Then she got angry at this:

"My daughters are involved in Karate & Girl Scouts (I'm a leader)."

At the time, she and DH had 50/50 week on/week off split. She wasn't nearly as irresponsible in the courts eyes as she would be seen now. At the time, she presented herself as an involved mother that volunteered at the school and was active in her kids' lives, with tae kwon do and school stuff. I'd LOVE to see what the Judge would say to her today. But, that's another issue for another thread maybe.

and KK, I love how you keep saying "your children's mother"...

There is a big difference between calling yourselves a family, and saying you have married the steps. It is unfathmable to me that anyone would not see it.

I don't condone putting pictures of children on the internet.

she objected to our including HER daughter in OUR ceremony, me making vows to HER daughter, and that we became a 'family' as the minister announced our family at the end of the ceremony. (she also requested to view our video that had the entire ceremony on it, so she also heard the entire ceremony)

Of course she has no problem with her daughter calling her BF dad or her BF's kids calling her mom, even though she is still married to someone else altogether. But, she is BM. Guess that means she gets to make up the rules and she's always right.

She objected to me putting pictures from a family cruise we took that included her daughter on myspace, but she has pictures of her daughter on HER myspace. I guess it's only objectionable to her to put pictures of her daughter on the internet, if it's not her doing it. (PS. dad approved the pictures I put up)

No it doesnt mean what she has done was right, and I know she has annoyed you on many occassions. But that doesnt make with New with Kids did right either. I assume your vows were on the order to love to be kind, etc. Nothing wrong with that. As to becoming part of family, many of us are part of various families. I would have hoped your DH would have spoken with you to minister re wordings. Whether or not dad approved putting up pics, I still dont think it is a good idea.

Not sure what you think OP did wrong. She took the phone from her husband when her SC asked to talk to her and when BM (who must have been listening to her DD's conversation) heard her talking to SM, she took the phone and hung it up. THAT IS WRONG! That is the action of an insecure and/or jealous person. If she had ANY other reason, or if she were more mature, she would have taken the phone and told SM WHY she was ending the call and/or called her ex and told him if she has a problem with SM getting on the phone. She acted CHILDISH and IMMATURE and RUDE. That was not the actions of a loving, concerned mother. Sorry.. but if you think that's how a mature, loving & concerned parent acts, then I sorely feel sorry for your child.

She told the kids she was marrying them. She established herelf as someone who doesnt respect boundaries. That means the others in her life, including the mother, have to.

What OP said was:

"I have always and will always feel that when I married my skids dad I also married them and actually asked for their blessing."

How is that construed into her telling the kids she is marrying them? How does that establish her as someone that doesn't respect boundaries? She has repeatedly stated that she is not mom, not trying to be mom, wants to avoid stepping on mom's toes, etc. I also take it that she wrote on this forum for advice so she can avoid making things worse with mom and possibly find ways to make situation with mom better. That is hardly pushing boundaries and needing mom to place boundaries and put her in her place. That's really a stretch and your position really doesn't hold any water.

ima your involvement wiht SD is commandable and judge recognized it correctly. But I do not remember you ever saying that you are married to SD. And I do not think you said in court either. It wouldn't make any sense. That's my point.

OP never said she told kids she was married to kids. It would probably sound silly to tell a child "I am married to you" but it's not silly to say "when I married your dad, I married you too" as it is a package deal. That is what is being conveyed. I tell my SD that my relationship with her has nothing to do with her mom or her dad. It is OUR relationship and it is what WE make it.

I never said in court that I married her daughter, she brought photos of our wedding and objected to us including her daughter in it. The point is that the court recognized my involvement as a good thing and BM was seen as jealous & insecure because she objected to all the nice things I do for her daughter. She was more worried that I was trying to be a mom to her daughter instead of realizing that I am being good to her daughter and not one of those stepmothers that wishes the first kids didn't exist and mistreating her daughter. She is entitled to her opinion but my point is that mom can make up rules in her house, dad makes his own rules. That includes phone use, which is why I said before that OP should respect mom's rule. (even though it should be up to dad to let SM get on the phone during his calls.. mom shouldn't be listening to her DD's conversations with dad, so she shouldn't even know her DD is talking to SM)

Cindy - You said:

"But doesn't a biomom really know what's best for her children?.."

And KKNY said something similar before your post.

I just want to say that not all BMs have the best interest of their kids in mind. There are a lot of very selfish mothers out there that view children as posessions or weapons.

OKTSSIMH's BM is very much that way. She does whatever she does in order to get her way depending on her objective at the moment. And her objectives are pretty varied and change very quickly.

I could give tons of instances, but the best one was when I busted OKTSSIMH in a lie. I talked to her about lying one day, just casually and not even really about her. I was talking about lying in general and how it hurts people. So she felt guilty, I guess, and went home and told BM she wasn't going to lie to GIMMSD anymore (BM's told GIMMSD this). BM wanted to know the conversation I had with her and she didn't want to tell her. In order to get her to open up, BM said "well....did you know that your dad would rather go to (Ashley's son's name)'s games than your events". Of course, that's not true and never was (both BM and OKTSSIMH neglected to tell us what time we were supposed to be there after much asking and then wouldn't answer the phone that morning). Basically BM didn't mind hurting her own DD just to get info out of her. And in the process hurt her dad and her relationship with my DS. Purely selfish motive.

I could go on and on with tons of examples, but I won't bore you.

Sometimes we all just have to face it that there really are some bad moms out there that may be masquerading around as good moms.

Ashley, what I have been trying to say is absent neglect or abuse each parent has the right to run his household as he sees fit. You cant micromanage the other house without running the risk of annoying people, which if you call twice a day, can be intrusive.

I totally understand what you're saying. It's the very reason I call very seldom when DS is with X. I get accused of intruding on HIS time if I call even once. I called on Christmas and never talked to DS. X never gave him the message I called. So I went a week without talking to DS and didn't even talk to him on Christmas.

That doesn't mean all BMs knows what's best for her child(ren) or even has good intentions.

I can tell that you are a great and attentive mom who loves her DD very much and has gone to great lengths to protect her. But you can't look at everyone through the filter of you. It's not an accurate picture.

DH calling twice a day can be with good intentions or selfish intentions. Either way.

You could apply the same logic to DH and say "But doesn't a biodad know what's best for his children?" and you'd get a resounding "NO" from a lot of people on this forum.

You're very kind. I wish my DDs dad would call her twice a day. I doubt he does. I do not monitor any calls before 10 PM. Those after that I tell the caller too late. Depending on caller, and I tired I am the caller may not appreciate my tone of voice.

ashley, when I wrote "doesn't a biomom know what's best for her children", I meant it from my own frame of reference...which is all I have and all I can control. We can't control other peoples behavior or change their intentions or motivations toward their children. What they do May be wrong when it comes to their children...but I can't control that...no one is perfect and nothing is ideal and all we have control over is ourselves.