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Condo (10'x8') Kitchen Remodel Plan 2013. Feedback?

10 years ago

Hi all!

So I've been reading a lot of threads and just recently signed up for an account. I'm in a 1bdrm condo in Seattle, and it's time to remodel the kitchen (yay)! I've already purchased all the appliances, and now I've decided on custom cabinets for the space.

I wanted to get your opinions on the design plan.

First, here's the before photo to get a sense of the space (please excuse the mess, I was painting when that was taken, and now I can't take a proper shot because all the new appliances are littering the area):

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Comments (47)

fourten1j
Original Author
10 years ago
Okay, so here is the plan that the custom cabinetmaker has put together for me. My goals were to increase countertop space, increase cabinet space, and open up the area by removing the cabinets hanging over the galley. What do you think of the new layout? Any feedback?
Cindy103d
10 years ago
How do you envision getting groceries into the fridge? The countertop between fridge and stove looks tiny.
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Thanks very much everyone for the feedback! Sorry for picture difficulties, I couldn't get the pictures to load otherwise for some reason! I had 3 contractors and a kitchen/cabinet designer over yesterday. Fortunately, it seems like my budget range overlaps with ballpark figures the contractors were willing to throw out, so that's a relief! The KD agreed with the general layout and said I should have minimum of 36" from the pantry to the peninsula, but I will see about trying to make the clearance there as much as possible, like up to the ~42". I can put down some tape and stack some boxes and see what clearance would work best for me. Its already a small kitchen, so anything I can do to make it feel a little more spacious would be valuable. Also in agreement on the lazy susan - it adds nothing and drawers would be nice, and I could put in a cookie sheet insert or something, just generally get more out of the cabinet. I will definitely do that! The KD also mentioned that instead of a kidney-shape pullout in the blind corner, I should just give up on that space and go with normal drawers as it would be a good way to get more fixed-size drawers in the kitchen (right now, the only fixed-size drawers I'd have would be those next to the oven, probably 15" wide, and ones at the top of the peninsula). So eating that dead space would add 3 or 4 drawers. The KD also recommended a single bowl sink. I don't know, it seems so convenient to have 2 bowls, though maybe 36" cabinet isn't big enough to have a 2 bowl sink with at least one bowl big enough for pots and pans? The KD also said that reducing the sink size doesn't really give me much benefit, only a wider cabinet at the other end of the counter that will be up against a wall anyway. I will have to research if a huge one bowl sink or maybe a 70/30 two bowl sink might work. Out of curiousity, would more than 24" between sink and oven be for more prep space? I can't fit anything bigger than about 24" in my oven, so I figured if I was doing a pizza or turkey, I could pull it out and put it right on the counter. Unfortunately I am pretty restricted on the sink because I can't move the drain enough to put it on the other wall with my state's plumbing codes. I can easily run water line down for fridge, but the drain is the greater issue. I actually mapped out a plan with my sister very much like yours mama goose, but the building engineer said people tried in the past and it wouldn't pass inspection. I don't like the corner sink, just a personal thing, and I like having my drying rack in the corner there. Any recommendations on where the trash can pullout should go? I'd like it to go in one of the bases.. If I were to drop down to 60" of cabinets on the peninsula, could I switch to a 30" cabinet, 12" cabinet and 18" cabinet for trash? Or maybe they'll have a 15" trash can pullout, though I doubt it. I still get a drawer above the trash cans, but would the top drawer get smelly and gross with trash underneath? KD also recommended microwave in a center cutout of the pantry, which I'm inclined to do as it would take away a small eyesore and I personally very rarely use a microwave (though I know future owner may want a place for one). As an aside, two of the three contractors told me they'd only work with me if I used their cabinet lines, as its where they make most of their money. One of them only used Bellmont cabinets, which I read about and was not impressed. The other had a little more selection: Marsh, Wolf, and J&K Cabinetry (Chinese made). The Marsh seem ok.. but reviews are mixed and contractor estimated $6-7k for my small kitchen. The last contractor said they are fine with whatever cabinets I choose, and, despite having carpenters that can install them, would understand if I wanted to have cabients installed by someone else. If Woodharbor comes back in my price range, I'll almost certainly go with their cabinets and the contractor that offered flexibility.
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I'm always a dissenter here, but probably because I"m older than dirt! I couldn't care less about the arrangement of the sink/stove/refrig - I do what fits best in the space available and that often does not work except in a new build. What I DO like is lots and lots of counterspace, plenty of upper cabinets as well as lower (I have a TON of dishes), lots of light, a sink under a window, and a stove on an outside wall so it can be properly vented (if not on outside, there must be a pretty straight shoot out or even the best hood will not work well). I've never had a kitchen big enough for an island but my daughter has one. If I did, I would not want ANYTHING on top of that island - no prep sink, no cooktop. I'm not a fan of prep sinks but perhaps the young eat way more fresh veggies than I do. Kitchens are highly individual spaces. What works for one person may well drive another out of their mind. Think about what dishes/equipment you have, how you use your kitchen, and what matters to you. If you do, it should turn out right. No KD on earth can truly live in YOUR head!
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The thing is the interior and exterior really need to work as a whole which is why I asked about the elevations. In our previous home we had separate living areas on one level and though they were somewhat open to one another it does help with the noise. Interesting as I would have thought the opposite but since you have experience with it that way already, I say go for it! :) We are thinking the great room/three season porch can be opened to make one larger room when needed. I know it seems like a lot to keep clean but is much smaller than what I had in our 100 year old home we lived in for 22 years! And as soon as you said that, I realized I shouldn't talk. LOL. My last house was 3400 square feet and we wanted our new build to be between 2300-2500 square feet. Um, it's 2870 square feet. t would love to combine dining areas to have one large dining off the kitchen .It is the only room that really bothers me in terms of cleaning but my husband really wants a formal dining area so that is why we have the plan as is. Regarding the dining room, how often will you use it? If you'll be using it constantly definitely keep it, but if it's just occasionally, that's expensive space to add just for sometimes. For example, my mother used to have the whole family over for Sunday dinners every week for 20+ years, so for her the formal dining room was much used. I had a formal dining room in my last house and could count on one hand the number of times during the year I'd use it so for myself one large dining area will work better for us. One other idea is to keep the bar seating and the formal dining room, but get rid of the breakfast area. Eat breakfast and lunch at the counter or outdoors and have dinners in the dining room. Then you could make the breakfast bar area into the family room instead of that angled room. (That's sort of what my condo was like and it worked well.) If we moved the master bedroom to the laundry side of the house it would be more convenient. Not sure how difficult that would be or if it is workable with the plan we have? I still think you can do better though in terms of garage placement and laundry etc. It's not for you to come up with a better way of having the garage, mudroom, laundry etc all work together but for your architect to figure out with you. Maybe you both need to sit down and have a design charette before you get too much further? I really think those things can and should be made better for the overall feel of the house. (And yes, you can ignore me!) There is really no reason why on 10 acres a garage should be at the front of the house. Does your architect work with paper and pencil or can she only work with a CAD program? If she works with paper and pencil, then sit down with her and see how you can make this house even better. If she can only work with a CAD program, I'm guessing you can find someone with more creativity.
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Cindy103d
10 years ago
How do you envision getting groceries into the fridge? The countertop between fridge and stove looks tiny.
herbflavor
10 years ago
a guess would be the island will be your new "landing' area for activities like unloading groceries/prep/mingling with guest/etc.Very useful. Personally,I'd run the cabinets on the sink all across at the same height up from counter....at the living room end install one cabinet with matching interior/no door/ so wine glasses/small plates can be easily reached and obvious to a guest/visitor.This is not a family abode, but being in Seattle and a condo, think young professionals ..just married couple/etc....socializing/entertaining..... as a priority for future resale.I would seriously consider an 18 in dishwasher[means a little hassle with a return of what you bought-I'd do it anyway-they'll give you credit perhaps].... and maybe reverse the stack of drawers and mwave on island. Enjoy your new "opened up" space!!
palimpsest
10 years ago
We essentially had this size issue and we utilized the island as the loading space...it's really right there.

I would re-work the upper cabinets to clean up the design a bit (same height across the sink wall, as suggested), and a pie cut (no diagonal) to the right of the range.

There was a concealed range hood.
texasgal47
10 years ago
I like the layout and forum suggestions--can't wait to see the final product! By the way, where is your pantry?
User
10 years ago
Can the plumbing move? Will the condo board actually allow you to do the demolition and disturb the tenant below you?
fourten1j
Original Author
10 years ago
Hi everyone; thanks for the feedback so far!

I plan on using the island, directly across from the fridge, as the landing area before they go into the fridge and freezer. The small counterspace between the fridge and cooktop is just for cooking room. The fridge is a 27" SZ with bottom freezer drawers, and will be inset/flush with the cabinets (frameless).

As for the cooking, because my space is so small, I decided to go with a cooktop and single wall oven underneath, and the oven will be inset/flush with the cabinetry. I went with the Wolf 30" cooktop, and E-series single frameless oven.

Herbflavor, that's a great suggestion regarding the last cabinet. I could envision having a puck led light in there, as well.

I would totally do the wall cabinets all at the same height; however, I pulled the trigger on an industrial spray faucet, and it stands 28" above the counter. I hope it doesn't over-power the kitchen looks-wise.

One of my cabinets is being used for the pantry right now, and will probably be the case in the new kitchen. This is a 625sqft condo, so space is really limited. I also travel 150 days a year (mostly for work), so I envy those of you with large kitchens and fully stocked 'real' pantries!
fourten1j
Original Author
10 years ago
Hey Hollysprings. The plumbing isn't technically moving. The (hex) plumbing for the sink and dishwasher are actually coming from the side of the wall and are routed through existing cabinets to where they are currently. The new kitchen will have the sink in the same place, just a much shorter routing.

Condo board has already approved the kitchen plan, but I'm in the period now where I've signed the contract with the cabinet people, and some changes can still be made.
rosie
10 years ago
Well, for a different point of view, Foxcrane, in that situation I'd absolutely want the wonderful function and beautifully simple lines of a galley. No question. For me it couldn't be beat. I'd take the uppers off if I decided I wanted them gone (likely), but I'd definitely want the clean run of counter to block the view of the appliances and mess and reinforce a feeling of separation while still allowing me to not feel closed in .

For me there's definitely such a thing as overdoing opening up the relation between kitchen and living. I'd want the view toward the kitchen to be attractive and unmessy, and I definitely would not want the ambiance of my wonderful living room and my terrific kitchen to be utilitarian one-room kitchen/living room. Having the doorway on the side helps with separation. Having the opening facing the living area absolutely kills any feeling of discrete spaces with their own special moods.

The sink counter would be something like DW/cleanup area, 30" sink, then 7-8 feet of work counter. However it ended up, the sink would not be centered, dividing my work space in a way that had nothing to do with how much I needed on each side.

With a galley I'd at very least keep the end wall on the sink counter. An alternative that I really like on paper would be to put 12-15" wide (or even a bit wider depending on how the scale looked) full-height pullout cabinets at each end of the counter to frame the 7-8 open feet between. They could also be the type of "uppers" that come down to the counter but a bit shallower to break up the lines if desired. In any case, both these narrow widths provide an amazing amount of storage, and this would create crisply defined separate living/dining and kitchen spaces, while still allowing the kitchen to feel open. (7' is a lot).

Since there are just me and DH, I would also keep the refrigerator to no more than 30-32". I do a lot of cooking and live some way from the closest market, and we still just don't need a 36." In a compact kitchen I'd absolutely have far, far better uses for that 6" and never think twice about this.

Enjoy. :)
herbflavor
10 years ago
"industrial faucet at 28 in above counter".....bring the wall cabinets a little furthur "in" on the cutout space above sink-the sides or carcass dimensions of upper and lower cabinets don't need to line up perfectly. The gap you have is going to look like showcasing the faucet-it is a significant dimension for your kitchen. I would substitue the small upper cabinet there with either a voided door cab or have the cabinet people create a shelf for bowls/pottery/mugs...maybe 2 shelves. Maybe a backsplash tile section that mimics what you do above the range.What you have is like the"above fridge" type cabinets....open shelf is more useful-no reaching to open and swing a tiny door and then struggling to access the item with very large faucet in front of you. ... open shelf or 2.....consider 9 in depth[can be situated lower,as will sit behind the faucet at it's top ]....you'll use the shelves.
adel97
10 years ago
Fwiw, I agree with Rosie 100%. For best form and function, I would remove the uppers and keep the galley. If you want to "hide" the faucet somewhat, maybe add a bar height overhang on the living room side of the counters, adding some seating there for someone wanting to chat while you cook.

I'm currently looking for a small condo in Boston as a pied-a-terre and frankly, the "open concept" kitchens I've seen in small condos just don't work for me aesthetically, and often don't work functionally either. I think in large homes they make more sense because the sheer space acts to separate functions in a way that doesn't work in small spaces.
fourten1j
Original Author
10 years ago
Herbflavor - OMG Thank you for that suggestion about the wall cabinet above the sink; I'm definitely going to talk to the cabinet guys about that when they come out to do final measurements!

Sharonite - If I kept the galley but removed the hanging uppers, that would only leave me with 6 feet of base cabinets and 3 feet of wall cabinets. I cook A LOT, and entertain as much, so an island is most desireable. Currently the way the galley is set up, there's a sink in the middle of the galley. Also, I feel way too separated from my guests while I'm cooking. THose were the reasons why the galley had to go. Also, by doing cabs lengthwise along the wall, I'm able to extend out another 2-3 feet, so I do end up with significantly more counter and cabinet space by opening up the kitchen.
texasgal47
10 years ago
FoxCrane, I just read your post that you chose a built-in cooktop with oven below to tuck appliances back. I did the same thing and love the visual, uninterrupted flow it gives. One other vote is for the single level counters in a small space that is open concept. Nothing will give you more counter space than going with a one level counter. I had wanted to keep my raised counter but changed my mind when I saw a renovated kitchen that had made that transition. It was unbelievable how much larger it looked. Especially since you cook a lot, absolutely do not give up that feature. Also, in a new gorgeous kitchen no one will be looking at the cooking mess. They'll be enjoying the improved contact with you the cook and being in your awesome remodel.
fourten1j
Original Author
10 years ago
The renovation has started, and right now the kitchen is gutted. Luckily, I was able to donate my old cabinets, so I was happy about that.

I will post updated photos when the project is done. Looking forward to the end product!
fourten1j
Original Author
10 years ago
Here's the before photo.
KBSpider
10 years ago
How exciting! How about showing "in progress" pics? It's always cool to see how a renovation progresses...
fourten1j
Original Author
10 years ago
This is after Day 1:
fourten1j
Original Author
10 years ago
After Day 3/End of 1st week (work started on a Wednesday):
angela12345
10 years ago
Yay, I love updates !!
fourten1j
Original Author
10 years ago
I'm going to be out of town for work over the next 3 weeks, so this will be the last 'in process' photo. Hopefully, the kitchen will be completed by the time I get home.

This is a photo of the flooring at the beginning phase of being installed just as I was leaving for the airport. It's a 12x24 "modern black" porcelain.
fourten1j
Original Author
10 years ago
As for the materials.... this is the backsplash. It's an "ice grey" honed marble at 3x6.
fourten1j
Original Author
10 years ago
This is the "silver soapstone" I'm using for the counters along the wall, which will meet the marble subway tiles (above).
fourten1j
Original Author
10 years ago
And this White Carrera marble (will be honed) is going on the island.
sjhockeyfan325
10 years ago
How long is the project taking to complete -- day 1 to "reveal"? We're going to be doing something similar starting in the next few month, so I'm just wondering. (beautiful choices, btw)
annkh_nd
10 years ago
Foxcrane, I love your material choices! They are going to be stunning together!
fourten1j
Original Author
10 years ago
Hey sjhockeyfan, the project is taking about 3-4 weeks. There were some bumps along the way (one employee quit due to knee problems, and then needed to figure out gas routing since I'm in a hirise condo). The cabinet guys re-assigned another employee and he's been really great. The gas was an easy fix, so it should be smooth sailing from here on out.
KBSpider
10 years ago
Oooooh, I like all those choices! Can't wait to see! I'm bummed you'll be gone for three weeks....sigh...
fourten1j
Original Author
10 years ago
I asked the installer to send me some photos of the progress, so here they are! Appliances are going in this week (except cooktop, which will be after counters). Hoping to get templated for counters at the end of this week.
fourten1j
Original Author
10 years ago
Here's the end of the run. The dishwasher will be at the end there against the wall.
KBSpider
10 years ago
Great progress! I really like the crown detail - when you post your reveal and include lots and lots of pics (hint, hint), can you include a close up of that?
fourten1j
Original Author
10 years ago
I really wanted to take a peek at the progress (since it was a gutted space when I left), so I decided to made a 1-night pit-stop on my way to the bay area; the appliances are being installed. yay!!!
fourten1j
Original Author
10 years ago
Almost there! Looks like we got templates done for the counters this past Friday. When those get in, then the backsplash, sink and cooktop can go in.

Only hiccup at this moment is my dishwasher has a small dent in the front panel, so that's why it hasn't been installed, yet. The appliance peddler (Albert Lee in Seattle) is pushing back on fixing it (this is already a replacement unit for a severely dented 1st unit). Hoping to be able to talk to a manager and get them to do the right thing.
fourten1j
Original Author
10 years ago
Okay, here is the blind left corner cabinet with the Hafele Lemans unit. The pull-out shelves aren't the best use of the space, but is very accessible. I decided to position the shelves higher up so that I could use the bottom of the cabinet for larger items and make use of the entire footprint (at least at the bottom). Good compromise, I think.

The Hafele unit looks like it's the first generation one (we were supposed to use the Lemans II, which supposedly has 20% more shelf space), so waiting to see if the cabinetmaker ordered the right one.

This post was edited by FoxCrane on Wed, Sep 18, 13 at 2:53
fourten1j
Original Author
10 years ago
This is pretty much everything but the backsplash. Silver soapstone perimeter and carrara marble island; both honed. The soapstone is actually lighter than it looks in the photo. After oiling, it will probably look more true to the photo (a dark grey). That's a 36" end grain butcher block that I ordered from a guy online; planning to use that for food prep. I love the look of walnut on marble!
sjhockeyfan325
10 years ago
It's beautiful! Have you chosen a backsplash yet?
tmy_jax
10 years ago
It's coming along beautifully! Thanx for updating the thread with your updated photos!
fourten1j
Original Author
10 years ago
Backsplash time!!!! honed 'ice grey' marble subway tiles.

The entire project should be done by the end of the week. Yay!
fourten1j
Original Author
10 years ago
Now that my project is coming to a completion (this week!!!!!), I wanted to put out there my finance tracking spreadsheet that I used to monitor costs associated with a kitchen remodel. It's on my Google drive, and I've made it public for viewing. Hopefully, something like this could be useful for others endeavoring on a similar adventure. Inside the document is also a listing of all of the materials that I independently purchased (like things from online). Hope some of you find it useful.

It has to be noted that as wrap-up completes this week, that any additional funds I owe (outside of contract) will be settled, so the spreadsheet will be updated as those payments are made. Looks like the total cost for everything is coming up to around $45k, which I hear is mid-priced for similar jobs. I am very pleased with the results, that's for sure!

Also what is the etiquette with posting final reveal photos? Should I continue in this thread (which was originally meant to get feedback), or should I start a new thread without all the discussion? Your thoughts, please!

Here is a link that might be useful: Kitchen Remodel Cost Tracking & Breakdown
Ivan I
10 years ago
You are SO cool, thoughtful, wonderful, etc., for posting your project spreadsheet on Google Docs!

AND you have a beautiful kitchen !
vdinli
10 years ago
It looks lovely! Thanks for all the detailed photos and prices too. That is great!
KBSpider
10 years ago
It's looking great! Thanks for posting your spreadsheet-very helpful. You could start a new thread so you can include "reveal" in your title - that'll get folks excited! - but maybe in your "intro," link to this one so if people want to, they can check it out.

Can't wait the full reveal, no matter where you put it! :)
fourten1j
Original Author
10 years ago
Thanks, everyone! Backsplash grouting will be done tomorrow, and sealing done Thursday. It should be pretty much all done on Friday, and I'll do a separate thread for the reveal. It better be done Friday, because I leave Saturday for a month (vacation)!
fourten1j
Original Author
10 years ago
My Kraus faucet (in action) in the link below :)

Here is a link that might be useful: Vine Video: Kraus Faucet

This post was edited by FoxCrane on Fri, Sep 27, 13 at 3:23
fourten1j
Original Author
10 years ago
Okay, this is as close to an after photo as I can get right now (leaving tomorrow for a month). Won't be able to get to a final reveal thread until late October. Sad!

Just some touch-up items remain, as well as replacing the Hafele Lemans (with the 2nd generation one), replacing defective LED strips, gas install for the cooktop and adjusting the height of the pendant lights.
KBSpider
10 years ago
A whole month?! Waa...well, the good news is, there are a few other reveals that have just been posted, so I'll console myself with those. And at least you posted one shot! It really looks gorgeous! Your choices came together very nicely, and I'm loving that waterfall edge. And yes, the butcher block looks great on the counter!

It's going to be a long month for you, huh?
susanlynn2012
10 years ago
Foxcrane, thank you for sharing the before and after and the changes as more of your kitchen was completed. I love your choices and great use of space. I love the white inset frameless cabinets. Your kitchen is gorgeous! Do you know what white was used for the cabinets? I also love the hardware, the counters, the appliances, the floors and the goregeous backsplash.

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