Thanks for the info, Lynn. Please let us know which you choose, TIA!

Lynn, with your laminates, be sure to test where the liquid will seep through the seams. That's where it may absorb, swell, and warp.

I think you should work for 3M : )

Lynn - You made the Landmax sound very interesting so I looked at their website. It shows the different woods, but that's about all it shows. I couldn't even find any place in the states that sell it. Did you find it at a local flooring store? Is there any way you can post a picture of the different samples you have?

Laurie

Here is a link that might be useful: Landmax Flooring

Lynn - What about the Westhollow in something other than maple? I just found one that's exactly what I've been looking for except that I was leaning more towards wood than laminate.

Laurie

Here is a link that might be useful: Westhollow Floors

msrose, I also could not find much on the Landmax Flooring. There was a board called Doussie at a local store in the sun since it was displayed outside that is beautiful that I bought home to compare with the Amendoim. I saw nothing on their site either. I just can see they must have many coats of the semi-gloss on top since it seems to be the sturdiest and is 9/16th thick so is over 1/2". The top is I think 2 MM of Sawn wear level which no one buying engineered wood should go less than so it can be sanded down in the future and refinished with another semi-gloss coating.

Squirrel, I will do that test. Thank you for reminding me that I am missing a test.

Really the best to me is solid wood using a wood with a high Janka rating with a lot of coats of protection on top of it. But I am not investing in a sub floor in my townhouse that will be expensive especially since I would then need to make sure it is moisture protected and I will not get my money back during resale. Hence, I have to choose....

I love the Bruce Park Avenue Makore Laminate since it looks so real in the wood grain and is very sturdy but I wish it was a semi-gloss and not a high gloss and I wish it was a drop more red. I love the Doussie but it matches my desk too closely and I want a wood a little lighter. So far the Amendoim is the best but I am scared to order it since the pictures shown by real people did not look like the pictures on the BR-111 site that cost the manufacturer $100,000 to do a poster of I was told with the perfect lighting situation. Maybe some color variation would be good in my room since most of it is covered with furniture and this way the lighter colors will brighten up the room?

I love the Bamboo but it is a solid and I think it needs a sub-floor and surprisingly it scratches easily and the scratch marks were not able to be rubbed out and blended with the wood like many of the other samples.

I must work and now I am wondering if I should just order the Porcelain Ceramic Beige tiles that look like stone for my two foyer areas (one foyer near the utility room got so warped and water damaged from the failure of my central air conditioner system leaking water everywhere and causing a mini flood) and get that done and change the carpet in a few months in the two room home office area when I have more time since I am getting so behind in my work and feel I have not found what I love. It is sad since when I analyze to find out the best for me, I like to get the project done and over with.

With my new air conditioner unit, I did some research and ordered right away but that did not have to be pretty since it only needed to be functional.

I am also wondering if I should order samples from Wilsonartflooring since their Estate Plus sounds very sturdy.

If this was not a home office, I am feeling I would go with a commercial grade carpet that is almost flat but thick to allow chairs to roll around with no plastic mat protection underneath like they have at my seminar a few days ago. Other seminars have laminate but have chairs with no rolling feel and the laminate does not seem to damage.

msrose, I was going to order other samples but first wanted to see what Brutuses was to send me. Which one do you like?

I really love the Bruce Park Avenue Makore but just wish it was semi-gloss rather than high gloss. I like the Makore's grain and the coloring and how it looks so real and seems to be very sturdy.

If I can't find an engineered wood with at lest 2 MM on top and preferably 1/2" thick that I like more and if I do not find a laminate I like better that is at least 12 MM thick, then I will just go for the Makore since it does look very nice in my office now that I have two pieces of the samples clicked together.

I am doing a test right now on water going through the seam on the engineered wood 25 year to pieces clicked together, the same but 15 year warranty and the two darker pieces of the Bruce Park Avenue that Brutuses sent me today. I am going to let them sit 4 hours in the 1/3cup of water poured in the seams and see how they react. A few hours have passed so far and amazingly they are all doing well but the Bruce 12 MM Glossy Laminate is holding up the best.

If there have been previous posts to this discussion, I apologize since I haven't read them, but I have to ask why the obsession with water on the flooring? Is it being installed in a really wet area or does it flood often?

I would be more concerned with long term wear, how many times it could be refinished, and how it feels/sounds when walked on.

annz, you are probably right that I am over analyzing the water on the flooring thing since my 17.5 year old air conditioner died on me last month causing a flood (water leaked everywhere) and the new air conditioner system/compressor/heater cost me $8,100. The foyer's engineered flooring that was there (sure looked like solid oak wood) has all buckled up and the veneer part has lifted and I still have not replaced it but had it steamed to get rid of the musky smell this past Sunday since I was taking too long to make a decision and my home started to smell. The carpet guy did a great job with my carpet and it then makes me wonder if carpet is not so bad. :)

My wall to wall carpet got so dirty from the contractors walking through my home office and then walking towards the back of the home to install the outside compressor as well as part of it getting very wet from the flood.

I want to install porcelain ceramic tile in the foyer area near the utility room, bathroom, coat closet and the garage and in my home office (that the foyer is attached to) I want a floor that will not have problems with clients' wet boots and occasional spills of a drink they bring with them and my little dogs occasional potty mistakes since they stay in my office all day. I am tired of cleaning this light carpet 4X a year and having it look so dirty half of the time.

I wish I was not on a slab with a cement floor since I feel solid hardwood would be best that can be refinished several times if need be.

Well, after my 3/8" veneer problem with water, and cat puke on it even for a very short time, I am obsessed with water too : ) I would never do it again without testing first, to see how other brands, etc., compare. My mother's condo has had the same problem (3/8" different brand).

That's a good point about the sound the flooring makes, Lynn, which has been mentioned a few times. The laminates and free-floating floors, for example, (can) have a unique sound. Personally, I don't care for it. Maybe they're all different, too.

Squirrel, How much MM of actual hardwood wear level was on top of the 3/8th engineered wood since that matters more? I would prefer a 1/2" engineered wood with at least 2 MM on top.

So far 5.5 hours later, the Park Avenue Laminate is holding up very well and did not swell with just a very small amount of water absorbing on one spot but most of it stayed dry with the water on top of the same and on top of the laminate in a puddle. The Anderson Engineered Wood was able to click together very tight so it holding up well despite more of it getting through the seam and into the plywood. The Mannington's Engineered wood has more that soaked to the bottom of the wood due to the planks not clicking that great together being from two of their lines. If more water was poured on this, I can see a problem.

I think I will let the water stay there overnight and see what happens. I am also going to pour another 1/4 cup of water in the seam of each of the flooring samples to see what happens tomorrow morning.

Stay tuned to the results.... :)

Squirrel and Anne, that is a good point about the sound it makes. I can always add wood floors in my Master Bedroom if I choose laminate for my office.

My one concern is the value of my property if I put in Laminate versus Engineered Hardwood Floors. If I knew I would be here a very long time, I would not worry at all and get what is best for my office and then I can get something different for the rest of my home one day when I am ready to put hardwood down in those rooms. If I get what I love for the office and I love it enough, I can put it through the rest of my home.

I have no idea how long I will live here and if I meet Mr. Wonderful and get married one day, I have no idea if he will move in with me since my home is very nice or I would move to his home or we will sell both of our homes and buy one together. But so far, that Mr. Wonderful ends up being short-term dating and I am still single and kind of gave up on dating for awhile a few very nice men being interested in me and emailing me and calling.

But if I sell my place I know hardwood floors will sell better but if I choose a species I love that is photosenstive to the sun, maybe that will not be a good selling point that under all my file cabinets and office furniture is a different color wood. I also really like Semi-gloss on floors and the Bruce Park Avenue has a high gloss that is pretty but I wish it was less gloss. But it looks real and I like the Makore look that seems peaceful and looks nice in my home office not clashing with anything.

If I was not afraid of making my office too dark (not much natural light after the front of the office that has the windows since there is a half a wall high that has the other part of the office behind it with no windows at all that gets hardly any light), I really adore the Santos Mahagony's grain and variation of rich deep colors.

I am waiting for more samples to arrive. If I knew I would live here many more years and I had the finances and time and if I was able to (may not due to moisture since my town house was built on the preserved wet lands in my area), I would put a subfloor down in all rooms in my home and put down solid wood flooring in red oak quartersawn cut with many coats of protection on top.

Lynn - The Wine Barrel Oak is the one I liked.

Laurie

Here is a link that might be useful: Wine Barrel Oak

I was just thinking that a bit earlier Lynn, how many ply is on my floor. I'd guess it is only the three based on its performance, but would have to hunt it down. It's Bruce. When my mother had her's resurfaced, she was told it probably could not take another sanding. I don't know their brand other than it wasn't Bruce. Unfortunately, of course, there was another water accident. Their floor is beautiful to look at though (and you have to look or feel the rough areas from the last spill). I think the sanding and on-site refinish made it prettier. They have maple I have oak. My last spill from the washer drain really did a number and I'm going to want to replace some boards I think. Mine (plus the drain) would be a selling problem. So glad I had that thing on small load!!

I see now why your concern, but the likelihood of that happening again is very slim. Remember that the laminate that was originally there probably wasn't the highest grade and any water that was absorbed entered either on the bottom or in seams that weren't sealed well.

Also, be aware that the currently warped laminate is probably still holding moisture and a moldy smell is not going to go away until it's ripped out. Altho the steamer removed some of the odor, it also added more moisture.

Good luck on your decision..........

HI Annz, The Hardwood floor that has been ruined in my foyer is Bruce Engineered Gunstock Oak I have found out by a neihbor who is one of the original owners. It looks like it has at least a 2 MM wear level but it had been flooded with water all day when I was at a seminar so any wood I feel or laminate would have been ruined with that much water damage. My neighbor has two Westies and still has her original air conditioner unit. It is solid wood veneer over layers of plywood with no particle board but I am sure you are right that I must get it removed ASAP and make up my mind since it is not good for my health to have mold growing since I have mold allergies.

It seems that despite pouring more water on the engineered wood samples, all held up find with the Laminate doing as well as the Anderson Engineered Wood that was still a little wet but no visible damage on top and no swelling which surprised me. The Anderson wood has still a very tight lock while the laminate and the Mannington loosened up. But the Laminate on top still looks great and so does the Anderson Engineered two wood samples. The Mannington was not a good lock to begin with so I do not think I can fairly say it did not perform as well since it is still in good shape but less of a lock now than the poor lock on the two pieces before the water test and more wet than the others.

So my conclusion is if one goes with a 12 MM Laminate with many coats of protection on top or with an engineered wood that has seveal pieces of plywood with at least 2 MM of wear level on top and if there is no major floods, the floors will hold up well to some water spills even if not caught until the next day and I can live with the minute scratching.

I still like the Bamboo also despite it being a little light for my room but I only have one piece so I can't test it this way.

Off to go to my client that is about 1/2 away so I will check for posts when I get back.

Thank you everyone!

Also does anyone know if a solid 5/16th wood is better than a 1/2" engineered wood with at least a 2mm wear level in terms of sturdiness and able to handle my cement floor in my office?

Have you considered Amtico or other vinyl wood planks? Amtico is high end vinyl and it looks more like real wood then most laminates do. It fooled my picky brother who hates laminates. He visited and commented how much he liked my wood floor and how much better real wood looks then laminate. I didn't say a word to correct him. LOL I think the microbevel is what fooled him.

I have had it for about 5 years and there is not a nick or gouge anywhere on the floor, unlike my old cheaper vinyl floor. Here is a link www.amtico.com

Thank you Happyladi for the link. I looked at other vinyl floors and the looked cheap to me and had a smell. I will bring one sample home and see how it compares.

happyladi - Do you have a picture of your floors?

Laurie

Today the engineered wood samples are still damp despite not being damaged while the Park Avenue Laminate is dry and looking like nothing happened to it but it is smudgy on top due to the shine and needed to be cleaned. The water (a lot) was placed through the seams of two samples locked together and allowed to sit about 20 hours. So the 12 MM Bruce Park Avenue Laminate is very resistant to water and made in a special way like their ad says. I just wish they had more variety of their wood species chosen for their laminates.

The gloss on top I am finding out may not hide dust and smudges but it does hide scratches. The scratches on the matt samples (I did with a big sharp scissors) show up while the gloss seems to hide the scratches. So maybe glossy is nice after all.

I just wonder if my small furkidz will find a glossy floor slippery?

I so far like the Makore the best (very beautiful "wood grain imitation" and the coloring is very nice) but I wish it was a drop more red and a tiny bit lighter. Hence, I will wait for more samples and just get my foyers done in the porcelain ceramic so the damaged wood that is warped can be removed until I am sure before doing my downstairs two or three rooms (two rooms are the home office) in a hardwood floor or look alike hardwood floor.

I am thinking that if a dog pees and it goes through the wood or laminate where it is attached to another plank despite it drying, the planks can get smelly so since I put my puppy pads near the garage door in the foyer area that got damaged by the flood when I am not here to take the dogs out, if they miss the pad on the plastic try, the porcelain ceramic will be easy to clean up. The floor never got warped before until there was major water damage so engineered wood must be sturdy.

I just wish I had time and a lot of money and had a talented tile guy/gal to work with who could make the tiles I chose a bit fancier with some pretty tiny ones.