Look at Bmorepanic's layout on Fri, Mar 12, 10 at 12:09; it has a similar layout for a range on that wall...only with more work room. You really need more than 12" next to a doorway for safety's sake. While 12" may be Code, that doesn't mean it's best, especially if you have/are planning to have gas. There also isn't much workspace room overall next to it...I know it's better than what she currently has, but that doesn't mean it's enough or that it can't be even better. Another consideration...be sure to have at least a 24" overhang if you have the range (or cooktop) in that location. I do not recommend seating behind a range or cooktop, but if you insist on doing it, at least make it safe! Venting will also be an issue...for truly adequate venting, you need an overhead range hood...in this case, you'll need an "island range hood". [The majority of downdrafts are ineffective. Telescoping downdrafts are better, but then you have a vent in front of anyone sitting there and it's only effective for items right next to it and shorter than it by several inches.] About island range hoods... First, island range hood's are more expensive than wall hoods. Second, an island hood will hang down in front of anyone working or sitting there, will block the view to/from the DR & Kitchen, and will put the noise of a hood in your visitor's ears...and if you put in a raised bar, it's even worse b/c your visitors will be sitting another 6" higher and closer to the hood. Third, island range hoods need to be larger and/or stronger than wall hoods b/c of the increased air currents...meaning more $$ and more noise. Noise can be cut down by getting an even stronger hood and running it on low, but that adds yet more $$$ Fourth, that hood hanging down will most likely be a "commanding presence"...unless you get a low profile hood (meaning a thin hood) and/or glass (which means cleaning it often)...but those hoods have even less capture capability b/c there's no place to trap smoke/steam/grease/odors/etc. for venting out...so that means an even larger hood and more power and probably mounting even lower. IMHO, it's made even worse b/c the area is so small...a large hood will overwhelm that small peninsula. There are three main differences b/w BmorePanic's layout & JohnLiu's: Seating on the DR side of the kitchen. Is there room to take 24" of counter + seating space out of it? I can't tell from the pictures. Refrigerator location...I like John's location better b/c it puts it on the periphery and allows outsiders to get to it w/o interfering with those working in the kitchen DW location....I like Bmorepanic's better...it keeps the DW out of the Cooking Zone and out of the best Prep Zone...also across from the range. Why is that the best Prep Zone? Two reasons: (1) Because it's directly across from the range so going back & forth is easier and (2) It's out of traffic coming in/out of the kitchen. ...

pillog, I think you're right. If this location were spot-on for me, or the rest of the house were 100% perfect, I'd probably make it work. But I think to have an "urban" sized kitchen, you need to live in an urban--or at least "villlage"--area. In the burbs, people want to nest, and it's hard to nest when you can't roll out your pasta and hang it on broomsticks, or comfortably entertain the family at Christmas, or try your own hand at a "Julie & Julia Project." And I'm very aware that a problem when I buy will be a problem when I sell. As I said, that's why we sold our condo with the miniscule kitchen at the peak, because we saw the bust was coming and knew we'd never get a decent price in a soft market with that kitchen. What I'm going to do is try to stop out there and walk to the town center, and see how long it is. Of course, it's 76 and gorgeous today, so I have to picture July downpours and February ice storms. If it passes that test, I might try to ask a design-build firm to give me some ideas and very rough prices. I've done that before with architects and contractors, and it only cost a few hundred bucks if I'm clear that I'm only asking for minimal work on their part.

Twn85, do you have pictures of your final design? Would love to see it. Laughable, that may be an alternative. I definitely don't want to go shorter, as I am 5'9 and DH is 6'3. My only thing is that I'd have to add some granite to the left of the stove (where the current fridge is now, before the corner begins to make a peninsula) but maybe I could take what I'd be cutting out on the other side where the fridge would be moved? I don't know enough about granite to know if that's an option. Honestly I'd love new counters but even getting DH to consider any of this is enough of a challenge - he sees the square footage and thinks I'm crazy and high maintenance (okay, I AM but still) to even talk about putting money into an already "big" kitchen with upgrades. As for what I like to do in the kitchen - I'm a pretty much make-from-scratch cook. I am a SAHM and spend A LOT of time in the kitchen, either cooking, prepping or cleaning. I like having stations - baking, cooking, coffee, etc. I don't like a lot of appliances on the counter but I DO have a lot of heavy gadgets I'd want a spot in a cabinet or drawer for. There is a small TV in the corner of a countertop to give me company while I'm in there because I'm usually alone, although I'd LOVE to have (adult) company - other times, I have my small (ages 5 and 3) children to "help" out, and having a place for them to put their stools to spread out and pour ingredients is very good. The breakfast nook bugs me right now - the window seat is not currently there and the outside chairs are right in the walkway from the garage door into the FR. However, I'm not a big fan of stool seating b/c family dinners are really important at this stage in our lives. I know eventually the kids will need a place to do homework but if a sink goes at the peninsula, that sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. One thing you may be able to see is the architect suggested cutting out that pantry cabinet and extending the archway that leads into the dining room. The purpose there would be to make that more of a breakfast room than formal DR and maybe put some comfortable chairs where the current breakfast nook is for conversation. A peninsula would block that idea, though, I think. After reading these responses, I've gotten to thinking. We currently have a temporary island where the suggested one would go. It's smaller and not as functional and I just assumed that functionality was what was missing. However, DH doesn't help me as often as he used to and now I'm starting to think it may be how tight the kitchen seems now, rather than him just trying to avoid any work (or miss my engaging and witty banter.)

My kitchen is 12'11" x 23'. We're starting the process soon and I'm deciding whether to make my countertops 30" deep on the two long sides. I might do one 30" and the other 27" deep. My prep/cooking zones will be similar to the window wall in wentzylvania's 1st pic, except I don't have a pretty view. The other side will be the clean-up zone with 2 dishwashers, a large sink, and drawers/uppers for dishes. I have a door to the laundry/garage on one end and the fridge will go next to it. My sliders to the backyard are on the other end. I'm thinking of using a console-width table in there to protect my cooking zone from people crowding me, landing area, buffet, etc. I chose this because not only can we not afford to blow out the wall and open it to the living area for an island, I like the kitchen to have separation. Kind of like leaving the office for me since I was in there all that dang time. It's an awkward depth. Too wide for a galley and too narrow for a well functioning island. Kitchen before, standing in breakfast area. Very small work triangle with wall oven on the right, out of frame. Cabinets on left had bar sink and coffee area but otherwise, a bunch of junk in the lowers and not utilized well. New "rough" plan, still working out details. All dining will take place in our dining room and the doorway to the living area is moving down to make room for the clean-up zone.