A friend with a similar layout made the kitchen part of the family room and made the old kitchen an office. She used the back end wall of the family room for appliances and cabinets, placed an island with a sink across from the appliance wall, and on the other side of the island she included an eat-in buffet area that flows into the family room. Worked out great. Unclear whether that is an option here, but your dining room does have great proximity to your family room.

It is a LOVELY looking house! For the kitchen, can we get rid of that little wall beside the fridge? I would do that, then consider moving the fridge so it's back is to the stairs and it faces the stove (right hand end of that run), then get rid of the L on the stove run so there can be some elbow room beside the stove. I think you could use a smaller sink cabinet in order to, perhaps, get some deeper cabinets on the stair side? If you could do those things, and wrap the cabinets under the window, you'd have an amazing amount of counter space, it seems. The biggest problem I see is how the fridge and stove are crowded into one spot.

Do you love the house? I wouldn't not buy a house that was otherwise perfect because of that kitchen, but it depends also on what you want out of a kitchen and what your remodel budget compared to the cost of the house is.

If you want a big open great room, it's way a lot of remodelling. If you want want the kitchen to be a hang out spot, ditto.

If you prefer eating in the dining room, and having room separation the way you have here, with LR and DR and then sunroom/FR on the opposite side of the house from the kitchen, then yes, the kitchen can be made to work in it's current footprint, and it'll be fine. It can be done for half or even less, but for planning purposes think about it as $50K added to the cost of the house. (More if you have rich tastes, want a dream kitchen, or find a lot of structural repair needing to be done.)

If there's room in the value of the house, and you don't mind the mess, you could also do something like Ludy suggests, and move the kitchen, either into the DR or FR, and open it to the LR. Make the current kitchen a den or office. Depending on how much kitchen you want this could still be in the $50K-$70K range (or less if you're good at holding to a budget and don't have wild notions--or double if you want to do it up to a faretheewell).

It does look like a nice house with defined rooms which it sounds like is something you are considering. What jumped out at me is not only the wasted space above the cabinets but the wasted space IN the cabinets. Those are all frame style cabinets. By using frameless, or even better, custom, cabinets, I believe you would gain some valuable storage space in a remodel.

In some ways I would hate to move the kitchen since it has good access to the outside for groceries and garbage. It is also possible that you could make a corner of the family room be a snack area with a small frig, cabinet and mw for movie treats and more.

The one concern I have is the current trend to have kids doing their homework either in the kitchen or in the next room. That doesn't look possible without some serious remodeling.

If you could get rid of that strange wall at the end of the refrig and extend the countertop under that window by the range, it could be a very nice little kitchen. It's not big....but it's not that small either. But if it's not what you want, don't buy the house. The kitchen is too important to skimp. And since you are here, kitchens must be important to you.

I know you said not to do layout drawings but it was taking me longer to describe this in writing than it took me to draw it, so I couldn't resist. Here's what I was thinking . . .

I think it's an adorable house and if you loved everything about it and didn't have your heart set on a huge kitchen, I think this one could be made very functional and quite charming.

Does it matter to you that there is no bathroom on the first floor?

Wow, you folks work fast!

Background, in case you're curious: We sold a condo in 2005 because I thought Boston housing was overpriced (bingo!) and are now looking for houses in a leisurely fashion. Well, housing here is still overpriced (unlike everybody else in MA, I want my house paid for by retirement), and I've pretty much accepted that any house I buy will need a new kitchen (and probably new baths). Which is why I asked for opinions on a house I don't own yet. And why I hang out here!

ludy: I think you are absolutely right that the only way to get a really good kitchen in this house is to move it. It also makes sense to use that space for a first-floor bath, plus maybe a little office. However, that's a lot of moola, especially because that family room is a sunroom porch with a fairly low ceiling (I can touch it if I reach, and I'm only 5'8"). I'm picturing adding supports, raising the roof, and lots of other messy structural jobs. If someone were comfortable dropping a few hundred K, that's what they'd do--and add a big master suite right above the sunroom. The neighborhood would support it (but my budget wouldn't!).

rhome: In the current layout, that wall next to the fridge actually looks fine in person, though it really seems to jut out in the photos. It keeps you from seeing the side of the fridge from the entryway. Of course, cabinetry could do the same thing in less space. You're right about the crowding of the stove and fridge; however moving the fridge to the stairway wall would require shortening that run a lot--otherwise it would be hard to get into the doors, both of which are in the same corner.

pillog, nothing around here is perfect, even multi-million-dollar homes! This one also has a tiny master with no closet or en suite bath. So there's also that compromise to consider. Plus, it's a bit of a hike to the town center, and I'm a walker.

earth pal, yes, I'd have to go frameless, so much for the inset cabs I've always wanted (I'm an old house buff). As far as adding a satellite kitchen--the basement is an ideal place for that. The house is a full story taller in back, with a walk-out basement (look at the lower level in the tour). It's begging for an Ikea mini-kitchen to support outdoor grilling and entertaining--cooktop, fridge, Advantium, sink. Nice for resale, too, because this 'hood has a lot of Jewish residents, many of whom would appreciate having two kitchens.

ccoombs, good points, much like what I've been thinking.

holligator, I love layout diagrams, I just didn't have the cheek to ask for one for a house I may not even buy! I am not sure that the stairwell wall will support the depth of a range without blocking entry, though, as I mentioned about the fridge.

ci_lantro: Lack of a first-floor bath is not ideal, but not unusual around here. There's an updated bath at the bottom of the stairs as you enter the basement family room, so that would have to do for entertaining.

Boston has older neighborhoods with older houses. A perfect house is hard to find there. Location would be my first priority.

As for the house itself, I'd be more concerned about the amount of insulation in the walls, especially the family room, and the condition of the windows. Siding-is that wood or vinyl/aluminum over wood which can trap moisture and lead to rotting hidden from view. Does it have a driveway? Or just street parking which is a pain in snow storms.

Current kitchen is at least functional, if awkward. Later, I'd move it to the first floor family room and turn the old kitchen into a powder room and first floor laundry. Maybe put a small deck off the new kitchen with steps down to the back patio.

riverspots, are you around here? This is on a pretty street, Newton Center, but kind of a 20-minute walk to the T. Yes, there's a driveway. The exterior is wood--I'm 100% with you on siding.

I think you and I are the only two people to look at that house and wonder about insulation. Buyers here don't seem that interested in details like that, until they move in. The ceiling of the family room is some sort of cardboard, maybe homosote, which suggests a porch or three-season room that was later inexpensively heated (new baseboards) and sorta insulated. Sorta.

I can't really picture what it would cost to put a kitchen in the family room, add a bath and laundry, and maybe a coat closet where the kitchen is. Renovations in this area are astonishingly expensive. pillog's numbers make sense in a region that's not insanely marked up like this one. But I've also bid out a reno on another house that only included adding a shower to a bath, adding a powder room, and redoing a kitchen with no structural changes, plus some systems work--and that came to $250K!

It sounds like there are other compromises you'd be making, in addition to the kitchen. In that case, are there too many compromises? No layout suggestions (I'm new here), but I think that house is lovely and in a great part of town. If the kitchen is the big compromise, it sounds like it could be functional. We're a mile from a village center and while the walk isn't as short as I'd like, it's fine. Anything closer would have meant (generally) higher price, lower square footage, or worse condition. We bought a few months ago and only had a few days to look. I envy your timeframe and ability to wait for exactly the right place.

And if you want to quickly turn the existing kitchen into an eat in kitchen you can remove those 6'' cabinets and put a thin table from Ikea that can be folded out into a larger table if needed for eating of extra countertop space.

The photos of the family room look make it look like the windows come down too far for counters, at least on a couple of sides of the room. Am I seeing that correctly?

I just moved my kitchen into my family room, so I'm not criticizing the idea. What about swapping the kitchen and the current dining room? You open the kitchen up a bit to the living room, and the current dining room is a tad bigger than the current kitchen ... and that row of windows is begging for a wide expanse of counter underneath...

But maybe it's too small for a dining room?

Yes, segbrown, you'd probably have to close up one wall of windows in the family room for cabinets. I think that would be OK, because you'd still have windows across two sides. Right now the room reads more as a porch, anyway.

The DR is gorgeous, beautifully proportioned and perfectly symmetrical. It'd be a shame to change it. Plus, you're right: the kitchen is too small for a dining room.

Marcolo-
I live in MD now but lived in Salem, MA for 18 yrs in a 1720 Georgian colonial in the McIntire historic district. No insulation, no drive, old plumbing, old electric and a horrible kitchen. But I loved that old house and could walk to harbor (where I had a small boat), the library, the grocery store, the train station, and even two good bakeries. My current house is in a rural area. Only 40 yrs old or so and still needs lots of work. One of the kitchen counters actually has a big hole in it-previous owner had a keg tap there. But I can see the water (part of the Chesapeake Bay)-unlike all those new homes 20 minutes away.

I had neighbors with the aluminum siding over wood issue. Not all the house was affected-but was ugly in areas where sun didn't reach. My house had wood siding-but a lot was original. Historically intersting the way the ends overlapped, but expensive to replace. Got it all back when I sold, though.

Another "old" issue I had was that the sewer line to the house was original. And broke. No fun there. At least I caught it when it was just seeping. Ugh.

I had a friend in Newton. She wasn't thrilled about the house she bought-but bought because of the schools and it was in her price range. A nothing special ranch with a galley kitchen. This is a lot nicer than hers. Another friend had a house in Arlington that looked similar to this one. It had the tiniest yard and no drive. Only one bath that needed retiling. This one is bigger and better.

You can ask for heating costs to get an idea. From the outside, The first floor family room does look like it was a porch that had been enclosed. I'd check the foundation under it to make sure it was built strong enough to hold a kitchen. It would be nice overlooking the yard and patio. But could be drafty-even if insulated-with all those windows. Window treatments would help with that.

I'd arrange for another look at the house now that you've been able to ponder possible problems and costs. It's cute and in Newton so it will sell if not over-priced.

I am not sure that the stairwell wall will support the depth of a range without blocking entry

I don't understand what you mean here. Which entry would be blocked by the depth of the range (assuming you removed the wall by the current fridge location, as I did in the layout I posted)?

The photos make the kitchen look a bit larger than it is IRL. If you were to walk into the kitchen from the dining room, you would slam directly into a regular-depth counter, even without that wall. So that run would have to be very short and set back away from the door.

About the costs of a new kitchen, the unavoidable ones would be new plumbing and electic to the current first floor family room. At least there's nothing to demolish. And you'd still have a functional kitchen while work was proceding. Search this forum for low cost kitchens. It seems that many folk have been able to create wonderful kitchens for a modest price. Once the new kitchen was finished, you could demolish the old one yourselves to save money.

Another thought-I did not look at the living room pics-but could the new kitchen be put there and the living room be shifted to the family room? When not in use, the french doors could be closed, minimizing the draft/insulation issue. And shorter run for plumbing. I do love a fireplace in a kitchen.

What a cute house that is!

When I first saw the pictures of the kitchen my first thought was, how nice it would look if it had all windows on that wall above the sink. It would really make the space open up and it looks like you do have enough cupboards in there. I would have the window's go right to the counter, it would match the window where the stove is.

(What rhome410 suggested, wrap the cabinets under the window, you'd have an amazing amount of counter space) is a good idea.

I'm sure others have already said it, but--yes! It's a lovely home and I like to cook in my kitchen and socialize in the living room, so the briskly compact workroom that could be made from that would be great. If I decided otherwise, I'd always be able to move it to the back of the house. I notice the home IS extremely well endowed with active living space for its size.

Very cute house! Has such charm.
That front view is so warm & welcoming.

I'm not a layout savvy person, but there must be something you can do to make the kitchen work. Seems like a roomy main floor?

Good news is that during renovations you could enjoy the best frappes at Johnny's Luncheonette....

The house has been on the market for a while, which suggests this is a big problem for a lot of buyers in the area, who tend to have families. My old condo had a miniscule kitchen--about 30" of counter space! but we sold during the bubble. Times have changed. In a normal or down market, I think this kitchen will always be a drag on resale.

So I think the choices are 1) move to family room at great expense (as I said, I think some structural work will be necessary because it's an adapted porch or 2) try to change the layout without pouring in money that won't be recovered because the kitchen will always be small.

I'm really intrigued by the idea of moving the stove to the stair wall, but don't know if space permits. I hate to put you guys through all this head-scratching without being able to give proper measurements, but the online floor plan is all I have and it's not that precise.

Too bad they have a F-P freestanding fridge. It's nice, but I think a counterdepth or integrated would've worked better in the space.

The house has such charm, and I think the kitchen could be drastically improved just by replacing cabinets. If the price is right and everything else checks out, I would snap this one up...I know what you mean about location, location, location. I used to live in Newton but we eventually bought a condo in the Somerville/Cambridge area. Newton is inarguably the best place to live in Boston and has the best schools, and the real estate definitely reflects that.

I think home sales are slow for anything above the lowest bracket/entry level. Too many folks don't have enough equity in their current house to move. You're one of the few with cash in hand.

I like the house. If it's structurally sound and in your price range, I'd go for it. I'd certainly take another trip through. See if you could imagine living there, looking out those windows for the next several years. Do check under the kitchen sink for age of pipes. Maybe there's a reason the current owner didn't already redo the kitchen. If the pipes are such that they should be replaced, use it as a bargaining chip on the price. I do believe that people should live in a house at least 6 months before any major renovations. Too often lifestyles change. You might even decide a real master bedroom with bath is a higher priority than a large kitchen.

I'm not a kitchen fanatic-I've cooked great meals in a tiny Beacon Hill apartment and even small boat galleys. Ironically, my current kitchen is quite large and well arranged and I cook less. Too busy doing other stuff.

The house has been on the market for a while, which suggests this is a big problem for a lot of buyers in the area, who tend to have families.

Reread the above a few times. This is going to come up again if you ever want to sell the house.

The numbers I threw out were minimums. You can actually put in an Ikea kitchen which is perfectly functional, and attractive, for a lot less. The estimate you got for baths and kitchen, however, sounds pretty reasonable for "done up right".

The rooms and garden are very attractive. But it sounds like the location isn't perfect, the house isn't perfect, the price (considering the work you need to do) isn't perfect. It's pretty. Is pretty enough?

If the kitchen is the only thing stopping you, go for it! I think that a cottage style kitchen in the current footprint could be lovely and functional for the house as it stands.

If you're really not sure for all the other reasons, especially things like the distance to transportation and town center, and you're looking for a way to take the kitchen off the cons list, then it might be worth thinking again about the cons that are left.

pillog, I think you're right. If this location were spot-on for me, or the rest of the house were 100% perfect, I'd probably make it work. But I think to have an "urban" sized kitchen, you need to live in an urban--or at least "villlage"--area. In the burbs, people want to nest, and it's hard to nest when you can't roll out your pasta and hang it on broomsticks, or comfortably entertain the family at Christmas, or try your own hand at a "Julie & Julia Project."

And I'm very aware that a problem when I buy will be a problem when I sell. As I said, that's why we sold our condo with the miniscule kitchen at the peak, because we saw the bust was coming and knew we'd never get a decent price in a soft market with that kitchen.

What I'm going to do is try to stop out there and walk to the town center, and see how long it is. Of course, it's 76 and gorgeous today, so I have to picture July downpours and February ice storms. If it passes that test, I might try to ask a design-build firm to give me some ideas and very rough prices. I've done that before with architects and contractors, and it only cost a few hundred bucks if I'm clear that I'm only asking for minimal work on their part.