I like the second plan better with a couple of modifications. Can the girls use the bench seating morgue drawers for their stuff? I'd put the frig over on the wall between the pantry and MW. The range would then get landing space on either side and it creates a snack zone of pantry/frig/MW.

I was just about to type exactly what laxsupermom said. Move the fridge over by the pantry, and layout 2 wins hands down. It's still better with the fridge where you have it, but as you mentioned, the stove next to the fridge is not at all desirable.

I like 2 better because it a much more efficient use of space, and the table is more versatile than the peninsula. In the first plan, there are two walls that aren't being used at all, and the middle of the room is crowded. In the second, all the wall space is used, and the middle has plenty of room for traffic or movement.

I agree with the first two posters. The first layout has too much wasted space. Question: on the south/bottom wall, is the entire space floor to ceiling cabs? Is the storage for the two girls just base cabs/drawers? Does your friend bake... need a baking counter space?

How far off the floor are the windows in the "nook" area?

Layout #2 has very little counter workspace. Layout #1 has a lot more. Think about having the twins helping in the kitchen at dinner time or cleanup time...especially once they hit their pre-teen & teen years!

Looks wise, I prefer Layout #2, but if I had to work in it I think I'd hate it b/c of the lack of work space. Actually, I know I'd hate it...the amount of workspace is less than what I had in my old kitchen and I hated that! (That cabinet to the counter in the corner & the lack of space on the left side of the range make it even worse!)

If you did as LaxSuperMom suggested, it would improve it greatly! One caveat...the refrigerator will be over 8' away from the sink, can your friend live with that?

Another vote for layout #2 and moving the frig. to get landing space on either side of stove and gain another upper storage cab. If she moved the frig. to the south wall, what about counter and cab. space next to it w/micro., snack prep area? Although a few steps away from main prep area, not such a bad thing once children are more independent. Could use drawers in base cab. for twins' storage of school and craft supplies.

Another plus in that floor plan is the bench seat area -- we had one in our old kitchen and LOVED it, just could not figure out how to get one in our new space, unfortunately. Our teenager to our 6 y.o. could fit friends around it, and I would do it again in a heartbeat!

If she went with #2, what about a movable island/cart of some sort that could "park" near the end of the table when not in use, but create additional work surface when needed?

Hi...I probably would modify the first one. There simply isn't room that I can see for a bench/table setup as there's only a little over 4' from wall to DR entry. What you want to do to practice "real life" (lol) Get out the blue painters tape, tape the floor plan on the floor and perhaps use some stools and pull them out from the islands/table. Instead of showing stools UNDER overhangs, show them at max pullout on plans...2 l/2. You'll see that the stools will almost totally block the doorway or impinge on the fridge (yes, I would move it to the pantry side.) The dishwasher is too far away from the sink. A lazy susan door is normally 10" or so wide: put the dishwasher right next to that and next to the range or switch off positions with the drawers in your pix. To allow more than 2' to pass through into the kit from other areas, angle off the cabinet between the door and the range...cookbooks, whateva. Then you can have full depth pantries next to the fridge.

Although you're showing quite a few stools, I don't think more than 2,max 3 will really work. The one next to the window wall is only about 3" off the wall....about 10-12" for elbow room is more realistic. This is why it's important to really play with the tape and furniture. A floor to ceiling cupboard as you show in the first one could hold a lot of stuff.

Just try to not get caught up too much in inspiration stuff like the benches in such a small kitchen....you'd certainly need more depth than 12" to sit on and much more than 6" to slide onto the benches. And again, envision what happens when those 2 chairs pull out for seating....you need 2 l/2" from table edge.

Range next to fridge is never a good idea....you might check out the NKBA website for recommended clearances, landing sites etc. Instead of two pantries next to the fridge it might be wise to have one side with a landing area.

Although the kids are young now, I'd design more with the future in mind...they grow FAST! Also plan to allow for a larger fridge in future if possible...they eat more too lol.

Just a few other mentions. Benches with glass right behind them probably isn't the ideal setup for young children. AND they are not comfortable as you cannot lean back. We had one once with that setup in our LR and it was NEVER used....pretty but not practical.

You want to pack as much storage and function into this kit as possible. I'm not sure I'd waste that much room on a hood setup like that....or $$.

What about microwave placement?

Oh...also beware of either appliance doors or wider pantry doors opening into an entry/walkway or in front of another appliance (another reason the fridge next to the stove isn't a good idea.)

I was practically knocked out once when someone opened the top freezer door into my face as I was coming in from their deck. THAT started the kitchen remodel lol.

Ideally I'd put the D/W to the right of the sink. IF there's a short waste of space there? Perhaps do a narrow cabinet for trays between the sink and D/W.

I have to disagree with jant about the bench seating being a problem. Banquettes are one of the most efficient ways to fit seating in a limited space. The benches pictured are a little smaller than they would need to be, but not by much--18" is standard. Also, the table is actually pictured farther away from the bench than it would normally be, so that takes care of the difference in bench size.

The chairs, when in use (i.e., positioned as pictured), would block traffic from the doorway somewhat. But, given that the doorway is to the dining room, not outside or to the family room, it doesn't look like those chairs will be a major problem. When pushed under, the chairs should not be a problem at all.

Also, it appears from the 3-D renderings posted that the windows are at or above countertop height. I don't think windows that high will pose a problem for kids seated at the benches.

The version with the peninsula seems to be more of a problem in terms of blocking traffic, especially with the stool at the end. However, you said that this is how her current kitchen is set up, so she would be the best judge of whether that stool gets in the way.

If the plan is accurate, it does show the window to be lower than the sink window. I agree with Holligator that the pennisula appears to be intrusive but at the moment there's nothing on the opposite wall. With the addition of pantries and if the fridge moves there, then it becomes a problem. Does your friend really have 4 stools there now? In my mind I shortened the pennisula to accomodate the fridge and that's also why I said 3 stools max.

I guess I look at it this way. Losing that much valuable counter and cabinet space right next to the sink and range to allow for a banquette wouldn't be practical IMHO. She'd also lose the cupboard up against the wall and it doesn't appear she'd pick up much additional seating. If she did a banquette, I would do a slimmer table.

We're all different in the way we live in our kitchens...just trying to throw some thoughts out. My sister has an island with seating that tends to block a doorway and it's sometimes annoying when coming and going...and sometimes dangerous when you're carrying hot dishes "etc".

Like I mentioned...blue tape, fiddle around and pretend it's a party with chairs pulled out etc.

Just 2 more of my cents.....here is pic of the bench seat that served us for 6 years, moved into the house when our middle was 2, youngest has only known this type of seating -- moving into a chair at a table in our new space has been the change for him. So used to just sliding in and over for others that his own seat is a whole new experience.

We never had any problems with the windows behind, our table is only 43" in diameter, benches are 20" deep b/c I was going to make cushions for seat and back and never did. Would have been more comfortable if they were actually a bit more shallow and you could lean back. We fit lots of folks in this small space, for many a meal. The window height worked for us as we watched plenty of "nature" from here. If they had been any higher, it would be difficult to see out when sitting. Oh, and my long legged DH only ever sat in a chair pulled up to the table and it was not a problem in the kitchen pathway to dining room.

I was not willing to part with it and it is now part of my laundry/mudroom/office and serves as a laundry folding space, kids project spot, dumping ground, etc.

Keep playing with the plan and thinking about how SHE lives, we all have different wants/needs -- I would encourage your friend to write these things down, play with the tape as others have suggested and really look at how she and her family work and live in this space. The planning and time that she puts in at this stage will pay off a hundred fold in the long run!

My friend Kristin and I want to thank you for all your feedback and sharing your personal experiences (thanks for the picture alice).
We are trying to absorb all the info and see how we can modify each plan.

Will post updates soon.
The new idea on the table is to do an skinny island w/ a round ?ball? at the end. See link of blakey's FABULOUS kitchen.

Again, thank you.

Here is a link that might be useful: blakey's gorgeous kitchen/island-ball

Hello,
I'm back with a new plan: an island.

This layout is dependent on:
1. recessing the fridge into the adjoining bathroom closet, and
2. removing the tiny jut-out wall from the basement door.
So instead of enlarging the sink window, she'll keep the exterior/window the same and apply the money toward these 2 changes.

Now the large window/wall area looks too bare; what do you suggest for this wall?
Yes, the windows are lower than countertop height.

Again, would love your feedback soon.
She'd like to utilize the IKEA 10% off sale, which ends May ?2?.

thanks again,
Amanda

if it were my kitchen to redo (leaving the sink where it is for plumbing) I get a counter depth fridge and put on the south wall, move the stove down to about where the fridge is now (leaving a space for countertop to each side of it), put the DW where the stove is, then I'd even skinny up that penisula with maybe cabinets at 12" depth under it. I'd also round out the corners of the counter top of the penisula (then 2 people could sit at the end - at each 'corner'). there'd still be room on the south wall for a pantry and the far wall by the dining room could be a computer / message / book / study area.

depending on how much etc the penisula got skinnied up there might be room for the DW to the right of the sink even and then the stove could go midway on the west wall (figuring that's west). I'd put in banks of drawers on either side of the stove and to the right of the sink (if DW not there). probably no drawers on the skinny cabs under the penisula (unless custom cabs).

depending on exactly how i worked it I'd also try to have a trash bin under cabinet close to the sink (maybe under sink?)

I don't see the need to push a fat fridge back into the bathroom etc and use money that could go for a window. windows are a priority on my list. big windows! lol!

with the stove moved farther down, maybe the sink could move a bit to the left making room for the DW to it's right. I'd prefer that and would try to get that to work out.
hopefully there's no rule that says the sink has to be centered. I'd rather it off center w/ a big window than centered to a small one.

Is there some strong reason to not try the frig on the "south wall" w/pantry and MW? Using #2 with that configuration would seem to give you way more bang for your buck in terms of layout and function in this kitchen.

I just don't think this most recent plan will pay off much in the end, especially if resale is an issue. Putting $$ toward enlarging the window would be my vote, but I love natural light and you mentioned in your original post that it overlooks the backyard, certainly a plus.

With an island in the middle of this space, I think you will find that you have effectively blocked access to most everything else -- if anyone is sitting at the island, it will be hard to access pantry cabs. or walk behind and you have created a "dead zone" in that corner area where table/bench could go. There still isn't much prep space and doesn't seem as though the island would be deep enough to function as prep and sitting space.

There are folks way more knowledgeable here than I, but I think trying to put an island in the middle of this space could be a mistake and you would end up trying to "squeeze" around it all the time, making the space feel cramped instead of opening it up.

Keep playing with this, it will come together and it is all still on paper -- you can make as many changes as you want at this point, once the construction begins, it is much more costly to change!

Sorry for the quick drive-by:

1. The fridge is currently on the South/pantry wall and Kristin finds that it's way too far away for her.
W/ the island design, the island would be a barrier to get to the fridge (if put on the pantry wall).

2. W/ 2 growing kids, she can't give up and go to a counter-depth fridge.

kid sick
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