Installing Header on Load Bearing Wall in Ranch House

10 years ago

first time poster, and i'm ready to be ripped a new one for asking about this project!

short story: we are ready to hire someone to do this for us, but we also want to explore how easy some of our options are. there's a lot i don't understand.

long story: want to knock down a wall between the kitchen and l.room in a 1967 ranch house. wall is a load bearing wall. sits directly over the basement beam. house is 28' wide. wall section we are removing is a little over 10'.

we are installing an island in the newly opened space.

all contractors suggest a special ordered LVL beam. estimate about 5k for the job. our concerns are both cost and depth of header, as we have low enough ceilings already. i know that you can recess the beam into the ceiling, but that seems even more costly.

to save money, we were considering installing a column/post at the end of the island, so that the header span would be about 6' to the column, and then 4' after.

consulting a headerspan table, it seems like we could construct a header out of three 2x8 for up to 6'3" in this house.

questions:

would constructing a header out of 2x8 be significantly cheaper than a custom LVL beam?

could the column be constructed out of 2x4 (like jack studs) or would it have to be something else?

would the structural integrity of using a 6' + 4' span, with a column, be at least as good as a 10' lvl beam?

thanks in advance!

Featured Answer

8mpg

10 years ago

Price sounds high to me but I live in Texas where labor is much cheaper. If it were me, regardless of what the contrators suggest, I would get an engineer to spec out a beam of some sort. A LVL beam isnt expensive. Usually run in the $5-15/ft range. A 10' beam shouldnt be more than $200. Header span tables are a good rule of thumb but are not always accurate and are not always accepted by your local building department.

For $5k, it better be a recessed beam.

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Comments (14)

User
10 years ago
There is nothing wrong with splitting the span up except that no one is likely to want a post in their kitchen.

IMO the savings is too small to justify making a mess of the design.

A plan would be helpful.
weedyacres
10 years ago
The big cost isn't in the beam itself (probably just a few hundred dollars) but in the labor they're charging you to put it in. $5K is pretty pricey for installing an exposed LVL header. For that price you should be getting one installed in the attic, and even that is on the high side in our area. We DIY'ed one (linked below) if you want to see the process involved.

Here is a link that might be useful: removing a load-bearing wall
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The building code will have the acceptable headers and sizes. The header load includes all the loads above the opening, second floors, roofs (with snow loads), the dead weight of the walls above, etc. Builders rarely use a larger than required header. While a single 2x4 can sustain a very large load, they are a long and thin column and are subject to buckling failure. The code also specifies how many cripple studs are required to support the header, and again it is based on the load present. Your AHJ might be able to provide some guidance, but not all are helpful.
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Structural engineer time. In short... it depends. In our case where we opened up about 24' that used to be the rear wall of our 1 story house there was a column needed due to a point load, a pier and footer added below the column to take the load to the ground, and four LVLs (meeting in the column / side by side) as headers. Both ends of the opening were above existing piers that were deemed to be of more than adequate strength so they were left alone. Then of course there were the materials and fasteners used to make the connections. That said, it took the framers one day to remove the old wall and frame in the new opening, but I already removed all of the drywall, electrical and plumbing ahead of time.
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With no living space above the only thing the wall can be "bearing" is the weight of the ceiling. Surely you've determined that the ceiling joists run perpendicular to the wall, right? If they run parallel it is not bearing in any way and can be completely removed if you like. If the ceiling joists run perpendicular then it's best if you get into the attic but there are some clues as to whether or not it holds up the ceiling. If the ceiling joists lap over the wall (they meet in pairs) it is certainly bearing. If not it all depends on the span and the size of joists. In general though nearly every such wall without joists lapping over it can be considered a partition wall. If it is a bearing wall one of the best ways to deal with it when only attic space and you're only bearing ceiling weight is by using an "overhead" header (it sits on top of the ceiling joists) to which you attach the ceiling joists with joist hangers. This allows you to completely remove the wall below. Of course you must have proper support at both ends of the "overhead" header.
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I’m sure if you have the room (at least 5’ for a small slider) you should be able to have one installed, and it sounds like a good solution for you. Since that appears to be an exterior door I would assume that’s a load bearing wall but a good installer should know how to handle that.
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snoonyb
10 years ago
You have 4 choices for this header and the aesthetics involved.
Dropped header, partially recessed, flush header and strong back. Strong back would be the least desirable.

Using a post to decrease the size of the header implies that you are leaning toward a dropped header. For which a 4X10 would suffice, maintaining a header height well above 80", with an 8' ceiling height.
However, were you to opt for a post, especially a decorative wood post, it would need to be cut from a 6X6 to maintain the integrity of a 4X4.

5K sounds expensive, by about a 1/3rd.

Do any of your bidders include engineering calcs?
lynn_r_ct
10 years ago
Just got a price for a 12' span, flush ceiling, 2 12" LDL's for $1900 in CT, and I am not talking Martha Stewart area. He claims he needs two guys, two days. Honestly I think it is too much, however out of 4 guys I called only one actually showed up. I guess the job is too small for them . There is a steel beam directly below it in the basement so there are no footing issues. There is a Xpost in Kitchens you might want to read.
snoonyb
10 years ago
Well, you are now at 40% of the original estimate.
Have you considered learning a trade, buying the tools.
After all, it is a DIY project, for a knowledgeable tradesman.
lynn_r_ct
10 years ago
Husband and I finished an 2 story 18 x 24 addition about 4 years ago. Even with subbing out some of the work, it was of course, more money and more work than we anticipated. Same old story to anyone who has ever...

I know husband can do this with help from my 2 adult, still living at home, mooching sons LOL but - hubby has a bad back and is 62 so no spring chicken. Plus we are finally talking to each other after 4 years!

Can't get anyone else to call me for a quote. Even with referrals these guys either don't call back or are no shows. Willing to do some demo to save time and money. All I have read from various Garden Web articles is that it is not a HUGE project (I only have about a 13' span and I have architectural specs) so I don't understand why somebody wouldn't want to come in for a quick buck. Hate doing it but I guess I will start calling names from ads in our local paper to people I don't know or have any referrals.
snoonyb
10 years ago
Ever thought of shutting off the utilities, moving and not leaving a forwarding address?

Where Is the 2nd story addition in relation to this header?
lynn_r_ct
10 years ago
Everyday, but my husband doesn't like the dark! If I'm going I am not taking any baggage with me LOL.
snoonyb
10 years ago
Matches, candles fire extinguisher optional.

The question remains "Where Is the 2nd story addition in relation to this header?"
lynn_r_ct
10 years ago
It is perpenticular. If you can picture a raised ranch - the 13' of the the load bearing wall I need removed is from (facing the house) from the left of the house 13' to the right.

If you were to look at my house in an aerial view it looks like a T with the left small side chopped off. The little line left is the 24 x 18 two story addition. Hopefully this makes sense.
snoonyb
10 years ago
A clearer answer would be that, the 2nd story addition does not intersect any of the ceiling joist that the proposed header will support, nor does it affect the header placement.
lynn_r_ct
10 years ago
snoonyb,,, and that is why I like Garden Web. There is always someone out there that can make sense out of my ignorance! Thanks!
snoonyb
10 years ago
It's not ignorance. Non of us have been to your house and you did not enclose a Google Earth picture, so there was no point of reference.

And it was a guess.

Installing Header on Load Bearing Wall in Ranch House

8mpg

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weedyacres

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