Question about load bearing wall and opening allowed...

9 years ago

We have a kitchen that is almost 19' long and we're looking at opening up a wall even more because the space needs to be totally reconfigured. The almost 19' wall currently has an opening of under 11'. Our house is a ranch with a basement 99% sure this is a load bearing wall based on what is looks like... Will have an engineer and architect for this project, but would like to figure out our possibilities before we hire everyone. Would LOVE to open up the wall to have just 2ft on one side and about a foot on the other (the one side is currently a foot...) Want to put a big island in there. I see pics on houzz and pinterest of some kitchens with columns that look pretty good... One question is... if you do columns, do you need to still put in a header? And how far apart do the columns need to be/what is the max amount of space allowed between them? I think we could have 2 columns in the island (one on each end) that would look pretty good... Any info is greatly appreciated!

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Comments (6)

Sms
9 years ago
Yeah you need a structural engineer before you get too far along in your planning. There are lots of potential options but a steel beam might be in your future for such a long span. Sometimes those can be recessed into to ceiling but you still may need columns.
schicksal
9 years ago
Structural engineer time. In short... it depends. In our case where we opened up about 24' that used to be the rear wall of our 1 story house there was a column needed due to a point load, a pier and footer added below the column to take the load to the ground, and four LVLs (meeting in the column / side by side) as headers. Both ends of the opening were above existing piers that were deemed to be of more than adequate strength so they were left alone. Then of course there were the materials and fasteners used to make the connections.

That said, it took the framers one day to remove the old wall and frame in the new opening, but I already removed all of the drywall, electrical and plumbing ahead of time.
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building off of what renovator said, if you have load bearing walls on the first floor, you need to align structure below them in the basement. This can be beams or walls. Frame walls will be your cheapest option in most cases. However if you do not want a wall there, then price is not always the driving factor. However if you are a single story plus a basement, you shouldn't have too many first floor interior bearing walls. If you use steel or LVL beams, they must be sized to carry the first floor load as well as the loads placed on the first floor (2nd floor and possibly roof loads). As you can guess, this can make wood beams, even built up, quite deep. Steel might be your best bet here if you have longer spans between columns in your basement to keep head room heights at ideal levels. I tend to disagree with the claim in wood costing more then steel. Steel will cost more then wood in most cases. The post can be hidden inside walls (why would you do this? save the money and make the wall bearing! unless of course you have a very high point load) or they can be boxed out and made decorative. I joists should actually be cheaper then a floor truss, but typically cost a little more then solid 2x8-12 framing. However IMO, I joists are far superior. They can be had in very long spans so they can lay a continuous 30'+ joist across your load bearing beams/walls and allow for straighter and faster construction. Also, depending on the depth of them and the spacing, they can easily clear span 20'+. Plus they are a "greener" product. Trusses will cost more, but the benefit you have there is the web openings to allow easy smaller duct runs and electrical access.
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Thanks so much for your responses and your concerns. Let me clarify a couple things. First, the kitchen/bathroom area was added on to a two story farm type house back in the 50s. It has a slanted lean-to roof over that area. So there is no 2nd floor over this area, although there is a basement under it. The basement has a support wall that runs between the two sections directly below the load bearing wall on the main floor. Secondly, the 30" door that we took out had been framed into a larger area with a 40" header. It looked very much like it was a 36" or larger door at one time (probably the exterior door). So I think it still has enough support. However, we are not engineers or even general contractors, which is why I was asking questions. It is my understanding from talking to a local contractor that no permits are required if you are working on your own home in our area. After reading your concerns, I will call City Hall on Monday and verify this is correct. I live in a very small town in northern Montana close to the Canadian border. We do not have any engineers or architects and very few general contractors in our area. Most of the contractors are booked up for several months in advance, as we are currently in the middle of an oil-boom here. Thus we are trying to DIY. After all the concerns and warnings that you have given me, I have called a local GC that we know. While he does not have time to do any work for us, he has agreed to meet with us next week one evening and do a consult and answer some questions, and give us some direction informally. I guess that will have to do. Thanks for your warnings. I appreciate your input.
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With a 2 story structure, removing load bearing walls gets to be infinitely more difficult than in a one story. There's also snow loads, and seismic and high wind stability with resistance to shearing to consider in creating the support for what you are thinking of removing. If this is to be a DIY project, you need to have a pretty well experienced friend list in the trades that are willing to give you a couple of weekends for a heck of a lot of pizza and beer, and you'd better be well experienced as well. Might be cheaper (and safer!) to just call a licensed contractor who already has the burly guys on his payroll and can do this a bit quicker. And that IS after a consult with a structural engineer who will create the support plan! That's how you know for sure that your house won't fall down in the next high wind. :-)
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This is a rather meaningless guess without actually seeing the plans... but it’s the internet, what can go wrong? 16 inch deep floor truss spaced at 24 inches on center (On Center is dist from center of floor joist to center of next adjacent floor beam or joist). Double top chord bearing... Top chord is more or less the flanges or the top part of a beam (top flange, vs bottom flange, or the web... i.e. parts of a beam) or the top element in a truss. Double top chord is something I associate more with steel beam and poured concrete deck construction than with wood residential framing construction... generally means two different layers of top chords ( in a truss or joist), or top flanges (in a web-flange beam cross section). Someone would have to see the detail to interpret geometry more specifically. Top chord bearing typically means the truss or beam is supported by the underside of the top chord, instead of the bottom of the beam sitting on top of (or “bearing” on) what is beneath... Plan reading 101: These notes are about the floor system... if the ends of the above floor’s joists or trusses are supported by the framing in the wall you want to remove... (i.e. floor joists supporting the floor above are perpendicular instead of parallel to the wall you want to remove) then that wall is supporting the load of those floor joists (and the contributing area’s floor load from above floor), and you will need to replace the removed wall with a strong beam or truss for all these floor joist ends to bear on with the wall removed. Note that the replacement beam would span from one place where there is a column or vertical structure that will support the load of the above floor to another (from hardpoint to hardpoint)... length of the beam, and demolition to install the beam would therefore likely be greater than the 5 ft you seek to remove. Random guesses... without eyes actuallyon your plans.... Joe’s point that there’s the plans... and then there is investigating how it was really built/framed on site is also non-trivial
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patricianat
9 years ago
About 30 years ago we did such a remake of our house and we actually removed walls between DR and kitchen, LR and den. We made new walls but these had to be removed/redesigned and we used steel beams but we did have a structural engineer at the suggestion of the contractor to walk us through and make recommendations, at a cost, however, but in the long haul it was worth every penny. Our remodel looked beautiful and we felt very safe with it. The house has been through a hurricane and 2-3 tornadoes and is no worse for the wear.
oldbat2be
9 years ago
We too started with a post in our design plan. We bumped out an exterior wall, 5 feet. Several people on the forum suggested either a steel beam in the ceiling or an engineered wood beam.

What is upstairs? We had attic space, so didn't mind putting in the LBL (wood) beam, which sticks out upstairs about 6 inches. We were working with an architect and our building inspector required a structural engineer's stamp on the plans.

Here's what ours looks like, it's 3 engineered beams secured together, spanning the room. Good luck!
PRO
Joseph Corlett, LLC
9 years ago
That's "LVL" and stands for Laminated Veneer Lumber.
michellemarie
9 years ago
We basically took the back of our house off to expand our kitchen. You will need to consult with a structural engineer. I didn't use an architect. I used a draftsman for my 3 story 2500 sq ft addition. And then I changed the entire floor plan as we went. The perks of being a general contractor!!

Question about load bearing wall and opening allowed...

Comments (6)

Sms

schicksal

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