Difficult Seller?

16 years ago

This forum has been such a great source of collective wisdom over our condo-searching process, I hope you folks can shed some light on the following (and sorry if it's a bit ranty and long.)

I'm a 1st-time buyer in Canada. Found a great downtown condo, new construction (occupation just summer 2007), open-concept, ~1100sqft, asking $428000 with *no* appliances or parking. Comps are around this range but WITH appliances/parking.

Seller (from out of town) is listed with one of the top agents in the city and holds at least 2 other units (on the market) mortgage-free in same building, presumably for investment purposes. She paid $372000 for this unit, which has been listed since July 2007, initially at $438000, and has had no offers.

I made an offer for $390000 last week with just inspection/atty review as contigencies (very standard around here.) It's a bit low-ball but I fully expected to counter up! I'm pre-approved, and put down the largest deposit suggested by my agent (who is not the seller's.)

Turns out seller left for Arruba without informing her own agent or leaving contact info! After ~2days, seller's agent was finally able to locate the seller's son who was to leave for Arruba and will bring the offer with him (no phone in Arruba??) 48hrs after son's supposed arrival in Arruba, still no answer and seller agent couldn't locate her client.

Today (6d after offer), seller says that she's in Arruba until Jan 6 and will not respond until *or* if then. No counter, but not outright dismissal either, just basically "don't bother me, I'm on vacation."

I think the seller is being a bit insincere, but I really really like the property!

Is this normal behaviour? What do you guys think is going on? What should our next step be?

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Comments (12)

mariend
16 years ago
Do you have any limits as to when the seller has to respond.? Sounds like to me she is playing games. Yes they have phones there after all that is where that college student disappear months ago and has never been found. Maybe your agent can put more pressure on her, I cannot believe the agent (hers) would put up with that. Be firm and look for other property just to be on the safe side. Good luck.
devilsdue
Original Author
16 years ago
Yes, the offer was in effect for 48hrs, but that was before we found out the seller was unreacheable! Since it took almost 2 days to find the son, I didn't make a fuss, understanding that the seller might want 48hrs *after* seeing the offer to respond.
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mary_md7
16 years ago
I'd be inclined to say, "Well then, I'll look for another property" and go about your business. You may have found something you like just as well for a good price by the time she responds.

She doesn't sound serious about selling for less than her price.
xamsx
16 years ago
Look elsewhere. You put in a low bid, the seller isn't interested in even countering, time to move on. Make sure the offer has expired or have your agent officially withdraw the offer.
olga_d
16 years ago
Sounds like you are in a good market, right? I'm guessing Toronto or perhaps Vancouver?

I know at least in those areas things are moving pretty well and it's not uncommon to have to bid over asking price to get a property. Then again, you said it's been listed since July, which makes me think you're either in a completely different area OR the seller really is unreasonable and sticking to the price.
ellysas
16 years ago
sorry to hear about your luck...however on a seller's (and a buyer's) point of view...you probably bid too low and she's insulted and/or the seller's agent is scrambling around for more offers and more time...on the other hand if nothing happens and beware of "ghost or fax" offers then try again with the same bid next week (any other conditions/contigencies?) Good luck!!!
gardenspice
16 years ago
Yep, I agree - keep on looking. It sounds as if this seller has the luxury of working on her own time table, which probably means she is not dying to take a low offer.
Also - think twice about the 'no parking space"thing. Maybe you can deal with it, but think about resale.
devilsdue
Original Author
16 years ago
Thank you all for your replies -- at least now I don't feel like I've done something wrong :-)

olga_d: I'm in Montreal. The condo market here this year is considered "balanced" but it's definitely slowing (and projected to continue slowing) both in terms of sales and property value growth.

ellysas: What are "ghost/fax" offers? I've heard that sellers can get insulted by low offers, but I thought that since she's probably an experienced investor, she wouldn't be emotional and just treat this as a business negotiation. As I said, I fully expected to be countered with a higher amount and am prepared to meet the seller half-way. I'm willing and *able* to go higher than 390K, but I figured my 1st offer should leave me some room to negotiate... I mean, otherwise, why not just give her the asking price ;-) I have no contingencies other than the standard inspection and atty review of condo documents.

I've asked my agent to line up other properties to see and to just keep tabs on this unit for now. That said, I *really* like the unit -- should I repeat the same bid next week? With 10K more? Should I wait till the seller comes back from vacation? Or even longer to avoid looking "desperate?" Or just not bother until she/her agent contacts me or she drops her listing price? FWIW, the current listing expires at the end of Jan 2008.
theroselvr
16 years ago
IMO, the offer you made was a good 1st offer, especially since there is no parking or appliances. Since it's been on the market that long, my guess is she's going to have to sit on it or wait for someone willing to give her what she wants. Sounds to me like the market by you isn't that great.

Without knowing what her agent is making on it, it's hard to know how insulted she was by the offer. I'm sure she doesn't want to pay anything out of pocket and expects to make a few $$ on it. From what is going on in this market in my area, what you offered is about right, then you get the counter; both are "happy". Since she's an investor with a few properties, if the market is slowing and she needs to get out, she "monetarily" attached.

Opinion on parking:
Do you have any comps for a condo like this with no parking? I agree with gardenspice that for resale no parking might cost you a sale. How far is where you would park? Is this the norm? If it's not, I would forget about it. Let her sit on it.

I've asked my agent to line up other properties to see and to just keep tabs on this unit for now. That said, I *really* like the unit -- should I repeat the same bid next week? With 10K more? Should I wait till the seller comes back from vacation? Or even longer to avoid looking "desperate?" Or just not bother until she/her agent contacts me or she drops her listing price? FWIW, the current listing expires at the end of Jan 2008.

If this was me, I wouldn't beg her to negotiate with me. There were about 3 properties I couldn't walk for what ever reason so I moved on. We eventually found a new house a little farther for the same amount. I can tell you that in my area there is no shortage of houses or condos. While I understand this is a business deal, the fact that she's ignoring you for this long is pretty rude. Can you imagine actually putting in an offer that she accepts, then trying to get access to it for the inspection? What if there is some sort of safety issue that she needs to fix in order to close; if she's ignoring you now, imagine how she'll be then? You will then have money in the place, she'll end up saying "as is"

Do your homework. I can't tell you the amount of condo posts I've seen at the citydata forum where sellers can't even give them away. I know this is not true of all areas (look at our Pattycakes) but it seems like the condo market is cooling with buyers wanting their own house so they can do as they want. There was one post on the NJ forum where someone was complaining that their "neighbor" was blowing smoke out of their window, it was going into theirs. They couldn't wait to get out of there just for that reason. They felt they weren't able to open the windows in their own home.
devilsdue
Original Author
16 years ago
We do have the option to buy garage parking (~35K) from the builder, which I plan to do later when funds are available. I don't own a car, so it'll just be for resale (would probably rent it out in the meantime.) The very few other places without parking that I've seen are not really comparable to this unit in other ways as well.

roselvr: I too worry about she being difficult as well if this deal ever goes through! If I repeat the offer, it'll be with a smaller deposit because I no longer trust the seller to act in good faith.
lyfia
16 years ago
It is possible the seller is experienced with this and has you where she would want a buyer. Willing to go up more and maybe the seller is gambling on you wanting it and waiting to see how you respond and how eager you are to get the place and testing to see how willing to come up in price you are to get the place. Just another possibility.

It is a game in a lot of ways selling and buying just like when purchasing a car in many ways. Just way more expensive. Do you think the place it at risk of selling soon? If so would it hurt you to loose it or can you wait to get a response on your offer. I know it sucks waiting, but sometimes waiting is good in a buying/selling game with an offer on the table if they are testing you for how bad you want the place.
mitchdesj
16 years ago
I live in Montreal also ; I just closed on my condo last week, bought in july.
Some people bought in my building in 03 and closed in july, the project was slow to be completed; they surely got good prices back then, better than I did, since they bought on paper, so what your buyer paid for the unit is irrelevant, imo....

As for the subject of buying a parking spot and renting it out, ask about the condo rules, you might not be allowed to do this.

There might still be units available to buy from the developer, check on the internet and see what they are going for.

Difficult Seller?

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