Exposure, Exposure, Exposure.

If you know anything about marketing, you know exposure is key. When I'm ready to sell my house, no matter the inconvenience, I want everyone and their dog to see it. I might even run out and grab the mailman and trash guys to take a look.

I hate to get into this grudge match between you and Mary, Dave, but she really is right. Naturally, you are annoyed by the time wasters, but no contract is going to prevent looky-loos from checking out your house regardless of whether they can afford it or not. It is laughably easy to get qualification letters, particularly with the new breed of "we'll take your word for it" mortgage brokers out there.

You're right kaleberg, anybody can get pre-qualified. But there's a difference between pre-qualified and pre-approved. In my opinion, all buyers that are not paying cash, should be pre-approved. This would save a ton of time, and keep the headaches to a minimum.

In California some agents have been either robbed or assaulted by "prospective buyers" so you can be sure that any realtor in their right mind does check the buyers they drive or meet at your home.
I am a real estate attorney now but when I was an active broker I got a copy of a drivers license and photcopied it and left it in my office. Car dealers who take somebody out for a "test drive" do the same thing and for the same reason. Safety.
Also I could look at their address, and "qualify" a buyer by asking questions.But Discrimination of gender, sex, national origin,marital status etc.is a real issue. A realtor can be sued if they refuse to show somebody a house because they don't feel the person can afford it.
You would be surprised at the grundgy people who own lots of property, and are constantly buying stuff. I once asked a client of mine how come he drove a 12 year old truck when he had enough money to buy a brand new one--and he told me "thats why I have that much money". He owned a lot of oceanfront property in San Diego, Newport Beach and Santa Monica. Most of it is paid for. He still looks at property and buys, but he looks like a bum on purpose.
Smart car dealers have had experience with buyers who looked awful and bought the most expensive car on the lot for cash.
When an offer is presented to my clients or an estate, I demand a prequal letter and I check on it. I expect info about the buyer and will not accept an offer until we get it. Thats the time when you are entitled to know about the buyer.
So you may want things to be done differently--but be careful. If the listing makes it look like you want this and that before anybody even sees your place--that spells "pain" and there are plenty of properties on the market. A buyer has a limited time to look --5 in one day is almost too much so the properties that look great, the owner is cooperative about showing; the place is neat, clean and "ready to move in" and there are no dogs, snakes,etc., those are on the list. An agent may never see that buyer again so the best properties are shown, in the hopes the buyer will see the one they want and make an offer on it.

I'm with Kellyeng who advocated "exposure, exposure, exposure". If people (and their agent) want to see the house I'm selling, then they can see it. It's all about numbers - the more people who see the house, the more likely it will sell.

You are well within your rights to limit the viewings of your house to "preapproved" buyers but like others said, unless you're in a hot market you may be turning away the people who will buy your house.

Two years ago, one neighbor with a great, well-kept townhouse put his house on the market. He was able to say, in a nutshell, "Here's the house. There will be two open houses then all bids must be in by the following Monday. We will then pick the best offer." Sure enough, they got four or five bids and picked one. This year, there was NO WAY that scheme could have been used for similar townhouses in the same neighborhood. Everyone took the first offer made to them even those who got an offer on the first day on the market - no one was going to take a chance on getting a "better" second offer.

"But there's a difference between pre-qualified and pre-approved."

Neither is worth the paper they are printed on.
I can call my favorite mortgage broker and get a pre-approved letter faxed in about an hour.
Both types always contain enough outs to allow the bank to refuse to go through.
Sounds like the agents in your area are rather lazy and are showing houses out of the buyerÂs price range.

This happens sometimes, but a good agent tries to minimize the inconvenience for the sellers until their buyer gets the message about what they can actually afford.

Dave In Jersey,

I have a question.
Were you walking around with a pre approval letter in your pocket when you bought your house? If not, how many homeowners' time did you "waste" by just looking?

And are you trying to sell, or make a buck? You had two buyers that said they can't afford it. Maybe your asking price is too high. Maybe you should have negotiated with them.

You're trying to sell in the worst time of the year. It's a time when the only buyers out there are those that HAVE to find a home due to relocation, etc.

You had the house on the market, then took it off, and then put it back on. How can anybody even find the listing when MLS always lags behind by a week.

You must relax, and just sit tight. Let's face it, New Jersey in the winter is NOT the prettiest place to be. I know. I grew up there. You are in a CLASSIC "buyer's market".

Nothing can prevent lookey loos with or without prequal or preapproval letters. But shame on the real estate agent who doesn't demand that their client show them at minimum a pre-qual letter before carting these folks around for days on end looking at houses. Even though they are not the most reliable piece of information, at least the agent can eliminate the people who *really* can't afford to be looking. There's is nothing wrong with an agent showing an unaffordable house to a client for comparative (educational) purposes. However, I would hope the agent would keep such viewing to a minimum. After you have made your point about what a more expensive home looks like, you move on to the ones the client can truly afford.

You can have it in the listing that only pre-approved buyers can see the home (and have all showing appointments be made through your agent), but I don't think it's a good idea because real estate agents are lazy and won't go to the bother of making that extra phone call. In other words, they will ignore your house, which of course is the last thing you want.

When we purchased our shoreline current home 3 years ago, in southeastern CT, we were not preapproved & we had a home to sell. We drove by the home & saw the sign. Immediately phoned the listing realtor & made an appointment for a showing the next day. With your position, we would not have been able to purchase your house. Not because we couldn't afford it...but because we couldn't PROVE it to you on the one day we had available to look. Moral of story...be careful who you decide shouldn't see your home.

Tricia

Feeding frenzy:
thanks for clearing that up for me RE the various types of letters. I had no idea. Then again I've not used those letter in quite some time, if ever which goes to show how very little importance they have.

Kellyeng... For the most part I agree with this approach of not hesitating to show to anyone because people do talk and spread the word. For instance, say someone down the street who you don't know stops in for a look but not really interested in buying. They may go home and call their friend who wants to get in that neighborhood and the friend may be a serious buyer. The reason I say 'for the most part' is I suppose there are some circumstances where showing the house to a lot of people, especially any Joe Schmo that walks in off the street is if the owner is still living in the house and hasn't put alway all of their valued posessions and is not there all the time for showings. Then it poses a security and safety concern. And also because of some high dollar in exlcusive neighborhoods where houses sell quickly, it would probably be a waste of time. For most situations, the more people looking at it, the better IMO.

My sister's FIL is selling his house for $23 million. There are no pictures of the house available to look at except in the listing agents office. The only agent that can show the property is the listing agent. Before a buyer can look at the property they have to submit financial documents showing they can afford the house to the seller's personal accountant.

The house has been on the market for two years with three showings and no offers. House is in Morris County NJ.

Very high-end real estate like a $23 million property is the exception - it's standard to have to come up with financials on that.

The last home we bought - we did not have official preapproval. Found a home on a Sunday by chance - called the listing agent and make the offer, looked at the home 2 hours after the initial call and made the offer on the same day.

I will say we only looked at homes that we were very, very serious about buying. I don't believe in wasting anyone's time (seller, ours, agents, etc).

When we were selling, we had several neighbors from within a few miles that would come up with stories in order to see the home(got a co-worker from out of state, father from anothe state, yada-yada-yada) . It is neighborhood folks that are the big lookie-loos. Get a web site with some good pix and it will satisfy a lot of those lookie-loos.

zeebee wrote: Very high-end real estate like a $23 million property is the exception - it's standard to have to come up with financials on that.

In addition there is a VERY small pool of buyers for homes in that extreme price range. It's customary for homes like that to take a long time to sell.

The scenario of a $23 million dollar home and the particulars of selling it is really apples and oranges to the OP's situation.

Dave In Jersey,
I have a question.
Were you walking around with a pre approval letter in your pocket when you bought your house? If not, how many homeowners' time did you "waste" by just looking?

And are you trying to sell, or make a buck? You had two buyers that said they can't afford it. Maybe your asking price is too high. Maybe you should have negotiated with them.

You're trying to sell in the worst time of the year. It's a time when the only buyers out there are those that HAVE to find a home due to relocation, etc.

You had the house on the market, then took it off, and then put it back on. How can anybody even find the listing when MLS always lags behind by a week.

Again, I said 3 times I don't need a letter, and no Chistopher, we didn't have one, but we were pre approved and only looked at houses we knew we could afford. It would have been a waste of time looking out of our price range.

Maybe our price is too high, maybe not. We haven't had one person tell us it is.

Both our MLS listings were up the day after we signed the contract.

And last but not least, we had a showing this morning. They loved the house, and they are deciding between ours and one other. We will know sometime after 4pm today. That's when they are meeting with their agent.

Good luck Dave -- I know showing a house is frustrating, especially keeping it clean for showings and having to find something to do while prosepctive buyers are looking at your home -- hopefully it won't take too much longer.

Fingers crossed that you get this offer!! Wouldn't that be a great Christmas present?? :)

I really wish our house was back on the market already but we have had some delays with the various companies doing the work in/around the house. The hardwood floor guys are coming back on Monday (!) and then the cleaning team next Sat. The carpet cleaners are already scheduled for Jan 2 and as soon as that is dry we are BACK ON!

Thanks everybody. : )

I just wanted to say Happy Holidays and Happy New Year to all. And sorry if I came off as a jerk. I'm just frustrated right now, and the idea of not seeing my wife for a month at a time is killing me.
David

You definitely did not come off as a jerk. Here's hoping the couple chooses your house.

You are not a jerk! (At least on here...smile)

Selling a home (in this changing market anyway) is very stressful. Although it certainly doesn't compare to death or serious illness, it is definitely one of the most challenging situations that my H and I have ever had to deal with.

No offense to any other posters on this Forum but sellers take a lot a grief here. There is a lot of backlash that can on occasion turn downright nasty. I for one feel your pain....lol

Again, good luck and I hope that offer comes through!

Good luck - I hope they pick your house! Selling is definitely not fun.

And sorry if I came off as a jerk.

No, no, not in the slightest. Your justifiable frustration was showing loud and clear, that's all, and it would not help if your agent or potential buyers were to see that.

Calm, businesslike, and easy-to-work-with is the image that sellers need to present in these less than ideal market conditions.

"...the idea of not seeing my wife for a month at a time is killing me."

That is so sweet :-)

The scenario of a $23 million dollar home and the particulars of selling it is really apples and oranges to the OP's situation.

No duh. Just showing an extreme example of "pre-approval."

Dave - Good luck! One way or the other it will sell just be patient and as flexible as possible so you can move on with life.

I hope you've sold your house by now!

Tricia

The house has been on the market for two years with three showings and no offers. House is in Morris County NJ.
**********

That's where I escaped from in 1986! They don't PRINT enough money for me to go back there!

Christopher, please tell me why you feel you "escaped."

My sister lives there and I live in TX and the "feel" is completely different.

Just wondering if it's something other than the high cost of living that drove you away.

One of the issue is impact on credit score if they get pre-approved. To get pre-approved a lender should pull your credit report. This will trigger an inquiry and will lower your credit score. All inquiries within a specified period (30 days IIRC for a mortgage) count as one inquiry. But, if you inquire outside of that period they don't. So, lets say someone gets a pre-approval letter to look at your house. That dings their credit score by, say, 10 points. They don't like your house and don't find a house in that period of time. So the next month they are still looking but some seller says that pre-approval has now expired or is stale and they want a new one. They get it, but new inquiry and the credit score again goes down. But they decide to buy the house. There is some problem during the time after contract so doesn't close for 45 days. Right before closing lender runs credit check but it is more than 30 days after the last pre-approvel one. That counts as inquiry.

Result - 3 inquiries that all account. This could potentially lower someone's credit score enough to cause a 1/4 point higher interest rate.

I can see why buyers don't want to do a pre-approval just to view a house. Now, getting one in order to submit an offer is different.

Kelly,

I grew up in Northern New Jersey. Morris County to be exact. In the 50s it was a typical suburban area. 43 miles due west of NYC. But as I got older I realized the crime was escalating. We had to start locking our door at night. Then in the 70 the CONDO explosion hit. Condos were and are everywhere! Traffic got unbearable.
There were farms in Morris County when I grew up. Then the city people moved in and started going to the town hall to complain about the SMELL of the farm. And "how can we get any sleep when that stupid farmer runs his tractor at 6:00 in the morning?"
No, the area I grew up in is now nothing more than a city. And that's why I "escaped". I now live on a dirt road in a little town of 850 people. The farmer has legal rights to do what farmers do.
New Jersey is 7000 square miles with 8,000,000 people. Imagine Taxas with the entire population of the US inside it's borders. And the density would be just over half of NJ's.

We haven't been pre-approved. To make matters even worse we looked at a house $150,000 more than we could afford. We did not have a realtor (only seller's). Finally, when in 6 months the price dropped by 150,000 we are bying this house. I guess the seller would lose us as buyers if he didn't let us see his house way back just because we weren't pre-approved

christopherh, this is off topic but I'm glad to see you here. You mentioned a couple of months ago that you now make your living by doing art fairs. I think you were once a realtor?

Would you please tell me briefly about your art or craft work, or post a website where I could see it?

Thanks -
Minet

In IL pulling your credit is only good for 60 days then the lender wants it again to give you another letter. Sounds like a really really good way to have your buyer's credit scores down 25 points right before they make one of the biggest purchases in their life unless they find something immediately.

Personally I would NEVER tell someone what I was qualified for - it would give me NO wiggle room on the negotiations. I have a letter written saying that I am pre-qualed for any offer that we have written. I get the a preapproval letter once we settle on a sales price.

We looked for 4-5 months without getting any information directly from a mortgage lender. Our real estate agent knew our general situation (what we do for a living, that we were selling two houses and buying one, that we were prepared to move quickly as soon as we found something, and that we we didn't need to sell the second house to buy a new one)

We are building instead of buying an existing house--and figure that in January we need to get the mortgage paperwork started.

We were going to go with a production builder but one of the things that bothered me was that their mortgage process had a form with information that was NONE of the mortgage lender's business. They wanted to know what I paid for my current home, what improvements we'd done, etc. Since we aren't counting on the proceeds of that sale in order to buy, I found the request for that information out of line.

BTW, "can't afford", as someone pointed out, is also a euphamism for "don't like enough". It also can mean "I can afford the property but not the additional $20k to make it work for me." (as in the property we visited that needed to have every floor in the house replaced as well as major bathroom renovations)

And for what it's worth, a pre-approval letter only talks about what *borrowed* amount is approved. I can be approved for a $200k mortgage and have $100k to put down, which puts me into a $300k house. From just the letter, it isn't clear that I can afford a house priced at $275.

One more thought: without written proof from a lender (such as a real letter), preapproval is just a claim.

--Beth

Do what that Ruddman guy claims he is going to do with his mothers house.

Sell it via a "Dutch Auction" and charge admission for short guided tours.

You could even rent a pop corn machine and make some side money.

Fairyprincess

Minet,

I live in Vermont and yes, I an a full time crafter. My wife and I have been doing this as our sole source of income since 1994 when at age 46 I walked away from the corporate world. I was disgusted with the "rat race" as the rats were winning anyway.

I do shows throughout the northeast. I go as far south as Baltimore and as far west as Buffalo. I do small shows with space fees of $10 up to multi day shows with space fees over $1,200 for a 10x10 space. In 2006 we did 41 shows.

My last show was December 16th and we're now off until Jan 26 when we go to Edison, NJ for a 3 day show at the Expo center. The following week we're in Syracuse, NY.

I am known at the shows as "The House Number Guy". Yes, I make house numbers at the shows for the customers. I have sold over 30,000 since 1997 at an average price of $25.

I have no website as I found out loooong ago that nobody buys crafts online.

I'm in agreement with the OP. It is extremely frustrating to be a seller.
In certain price ranges (anything over a starter home range)people should be responsible & know what they can afford. Also, the buyers & their agents should be respectful of the seller's needs for serious inquiries only.

When we were looking for homes, I forwarned the realtor that I am very "picky" & that I expect the home to come with certain amenities in my price range. I will pay for what will come close to my needs, but will not overpay for homes that are nothing special. In 4 years, he has shown us only 4 homes.

We kept the looking very loose with our agent & I only asked to see the absolute closest choices to our needs. I did my own research with the town regarding other properties that may have been ok or would go to open houses. We decided to build, because the homes we had seen had serious flaws (small kitchens, baths, etc) & we realized that only building will satisfy most of our needs.

Now that we are sellers, we see how rude the buyers & their agents can be. I agree with Dave. The lookers are mostly looky Lous or not honest about our house.Yes, I expect them to act the way we did...ONLY look at our home if they see most of their needs listed.

Keep in mind that our house is only 12 yo, and over 3300 sqft. We're listed semi FSBO (we pay RE buyer commission)It's in one of the most desirable towns, great school system. One of the lowest Taxes. Superb location. The house is loaded with extras (we had it built). It's priced 25k below market...the only drawback, possibly would be that it's on a slight hill, BUT with gorgeous views. The driveway is never a problem because the sun hits it just right, so it's the first DRY driveway in the neighborhood in the winter.
This is what I would hear:
"Immaculate, beautiful home"-100% of the time
"Lots of house for the money"-60% of the time
"How much is it to heat this house?"- a couple of times
"Too big"- a few times
"Long Driveway" (it's average in this neigborhood of FINE homes)- a couple of times.

Most ppl who looked at this house were:
Most of the lookers were in their twenties & didn't look like they qualified....but who knows. Maybe moms & dads had umlimited funds!?
A couple of lookers were in their fifies...who needs a large house at that age? WE DON'T!
The rest(75%) were only HALF couples. One person, no spouse present. VERY rarely do I believe in showing a house to a half couple. Most of the time both need to be present & use some give & take. My DH & I never agree on the same things. We always compromise.
This has been the most frustrating home selling in my life & it's the fifth home that I'm selling. I think the market is weird. I,too, need serious & honest buyers.
BTW- I had 2 offers that didn't work out.

"...Yes, I expect them to act the way we did...ONLY look at our home if they see most of their needs listed..."
What if they don't KNOW what they want?

"..."How much is it to heat this house?"- a couple of times..."
That's possibly one of the first questions I would ask. And I would want to see the heating bills.

"...Most of the lookers were in their twenties & didn't look like they qualified....but who knows. Maybe moms & dads had umlimited funds!?..."
And maybe they had an internet company that they just sold.

"...The rest(75%) were only HALF couples. One person, no spouse present. VERY rarely do I believe in showing a house to a half couple..."
And maybe the one spouse is looking while the other is handling the transfer of the job. They need a place to move to and the main decision maker is the one looking.

"...BTW- I had 2 offers that didn't work out..."
When we sold we said that anyone that the realtor felt was qualified to look at the house was welcome. Since they were the ones with the money, I would accomodate them. I sold my house in 48 days to a couple that I too didn't think was "correct" but they made a full price offer with NO contingiences. No inspections. No nothing. And the offer was CASH.

Don't count out 1/2 a couple viewing a home. My husband has been transfered several times, and our home buying process often involved my husband pre screening homes for me so that when I came out on a weekend I could make that weekend count. He'd usually take pictures or video of homes that appealed to him (this was before virtual tours were available online) when I came out to see homes, I'd look at the homes he prescreened for me so that we could use our short house hunting time better.

christopherh, I am assuming if you go as far west as Buffalo, you are working Allentown. You must be very talented!

dabunch The rest(75%) were only HALF couples. One person, no spouse present. VERY rarely do I believe in showing a house to a half couple. Most of the time both need to be present & use some give & take. My DH & I never agree on the same things. We always compromise.

The house we ended up buying (after a long, exhausting search) was one I saw without my husband. We put in the offer before he ever saw it. I knew it was exactly what he wanted (me, I'm still not sure); and I was right.

Don't discount half couples.

Thanks, christopherh, for the description of your livelihood. It sounds as if you really are enjoying your life. Nice to know someone has escaped the rat race. We're working on that too.

Now, back to topic, I agree that you never know who's going to be the buyer. If you're serious about selling your house then you just deal with the inconvenience, the rude agents, the lookers, the people who come an hour after they said they would, etc. Unfortunately it's part of the process. I guess that's why some people prefer to move out and leave the house vacant for selling, rather than deal with disruptions.

My spouse was the only one that toured our home prior to us placing an offer and buying the place. The first time I saw the home was the day we moved in. It was a corporate relocation and I was not located in that state, though my spouse was. We both had the same wants and needs for a home, so I was confident that if my spouse liked the home, that I would too. It worked out fine.

Also - many folks in their 20s can easily afford a decent home- without the help of parents. This is especially true when both spouses work or for young folks in high paying professions.

"I guess that's why some people prefer to move out and leave the house vacant for selling, rather than deal with disruptions." I agree completely. I hope dave_in_jersey gets a solid offer and is able to join his wife before the spring arrives.

"Most of the lookers were in their twenties & didn't look like they qualified....but who knows. Maybe moms & dads had umlimited funds!? "

That's a dangerous assumption that caused much misery when me and my then boyfriend, now husband were looking at houses. Being a penny pinching 20-something couple who work in computers, I felt like perhaps it would have helped us to tattoo our preapproval #s to our foreheads just to get some attention.

Why then do the real estate companies tell buyers that one of the main reasons you use a real estate agent to list and sell your house is that the agents pre-approve buyers and won't bring unqualified buyers to your house? That is their sales pitch for why you shouldn't FSBO afterall. I was surprised my agent hasn't asked for pre approval, but we got pre-qualified anyway. In Maine where we are moving, the contract requires a pre-qualification letter within X days of contract acceptance. I think that is a smart move and now that I am going to do FSBO I am going to require the same thing and the house will stay on the market until I have one in hand.

My real estate listing has expired with my realtor and I decided that I wanted a quick sale so I am cutting the commission out of my listed price and hope that will generate interest. At least more than I have gotten with the agents. But all the FSBO sites suggest strongly that you require a buyer submit a pre-qualification letter with or close to an offer. That makes sense. If they can't then you haven't lost anything. I think a lot of people who buy FSBO houses are savvy enough to know what they have to do.

I'm probably wrong on that though. Human nature is so odd sometimes.

New here..I wish I had found this place earlier - before I lost all my hair from ripping it out!

We just bought a new place and moved in, and are selling our old place. We were lucky enough to be able to do that. For me, that was the least stressful situation.

As a buyer, I was very conscientious. I looked online, went to the bank, got a 90% letter for a sale price (not our top one, mind you, but one in the range we were looking at), then looked at houses. Many times, I would show the realtor the letter and they would look at me strangely..even though the MLS stipulated that pre-approval was a requirement.

As a seller, I saw a lot of varying types of behavior. I don't know what is more frustrating, though. Lots of non-approved would-be buyers, or buyers that are approved for way more than your asking price, but are really stingy and put sale contingencies or make super low offers.

"...christopherh, I am assuming if you go as far west as Buffalo, you are working Allentown. You must be very talented!..."

Thank you for the kind words.
I always have a schedule conflict on the Allentown date. But we are getting on the wait list for the "Christmas in the Country" show in Hamburg. It's rated the number one craft show in the country. Some exhibitors have made as much as $25,000 in one weekend at that show! That can be intimidating as my best show was $10,000 in 3 days.

"I just want the agents to do their job and show the buyers houses they can afford."

My spouse and I decided on what we could "afford", but when we saw this home, we decided we could "afford" a bit more, LOL. We could have actually "afforded" a lot more house, but affordability is a subjective.

Bingo!
I have never purchased a house near what the bankers have been willing to lend.
While thay think I can afford the payments, I am not comfortable with them.
At some point being 'house poor' is no longer attractive.

Not to look however on making an offer the agent can add a special addendum required which is a pre-approval letter. I ran into this a couple of weeks ago whilst making an offer on a bank owned foreclosure through HSBC. Seems that they only want to be burned once per property. Banks are going to take a beating in 2007.

Have a great one!