I'm sorry things didn't work out for you. But it sounds as though you will be getting a much-needed break from marketing your home.

Do you think that now that you aren't working under a deadline it would be worth approaching people about changing that 30% down requirement? That seems like a pretty high financial hurdle. Are there many elderly people in your complex who aren't even aware that this requirement is de-valuing their homes?

because our option on the place we wanted to buy has expired, and we'd have nowhere to go to, if we did get a contract

because w/o a realtor to screen buyers, we'd get a lot of lookie-loos (we did before, when we were FSBO); only a very small group of buyers can afford both downpayment AND purchase price

because my DH is tired, tired, tired of being locked at home every weekend, and he wants to STOP. And I want to stay married. To him.

Because our old asking price is close to what we'd have gotten w/o realtor's commission, and we didn't get any offers out of that, either (well, one that we couldn't accept; but NO second lookers)

The only think *I* would be willing to do is run an ad that said: "$425k, no negotiating, as is, to contract in 2 weeks." Our sellers might still be willing to do a new contract w/ us if we moved that fast. But if they don't, we don't want to struggle w/ this anymore.

We're out.

(my "because" post was a repsonse to qdognj)

solie:

it's 1/3, NOT 30%. at $450k, that's a $15,000 difference.

we can bring it up, but I'm not that hopeful of them being willing to change. Nearly no one in our particular 10-unit co-op is interested in selling, ever. They're not elderly, they're just never going to move. And they don't give a flying leap about the value of MY home. They will make every decision based on what's best for them personally, and what's best for them is to be really conservative about the financial strengths of whoever buys in. (never mind that most of them bought in when the prices were under $140k)

We meet once a year, as directors. I think it would take a year or two of talking about it before they'd be willing to consider changing something that fundamental.

I've been following your posts because DH and I are in NYC also (Brooklyn) and might be selling our co-op if we can find a house we like. I'm sorry you're out but it sounds like the right decision at the time. Our broker is telling us that almost nothing is moving in this market.

BTW, PropertyShark started listing NYC co-op sales prices. You have to register but they don't spam you and you get to search up to six properties a day for free. The only downside is that it can take a few months after closing for the information to be uploaded.

aw, talley sue, I am sorry it didn't work out the way you wanted.

That's frustrating. I can understand their concerns, but 1/4 of $140 is really different than 1/3 of $450.

So the rules go by building, huh? Not the whole complex? I guess if the other nine in your building like it the way it is, there's nothing you can do.

Well, at least you can enjoy living in a stable building with faces you know. I remember once being in the elevator of a very nice condo building in Manhattan and the guy in the elevator with me was on his way to a dating service being run out of an apartment. He started telling me all about it and then told me what he really liked was pregnant women and he'd just talked to a pregnant woman at the bank and she wasn't interested in him. At least you don't have to listen to that after a long day at work.

zeebee, I've found that the gossip in the neighborhood is actually pretty accurate.

Since co-op boards approve the sale, and on our block especially (and in the co-ops that are similar to ours), everybody in the building is on the board, so everybody knows what the final sale price is.

That's why we felt comfortable w/ our buying/selling scenario; I felt like our pricing ideas were pretty accurate. Our timing just stunk; the market froze up right as we went on.

Thanks for the tip about PropertyShark, though.

I think maybe we lost some momentum in the very beginning, because we didn't declutter the kids' room as well as we should have. (though to be honest, at the same time there were other apts on the market like ours, and THEY didn't move right away either).

And maybe we didn't take into consideratin our location--except that the two sales we knew of were the one under us (a worse location, frankly; all the negative and none of the sunshine) and one directly across from us (w/ honking from the traffic light, which we don't have).

It's disappointing, because I think the place we had the bid in on was exactly perfect. Great co-op board; all the brick work recently done; on the right side of the block (no honking); all the original archways (lots of people remove all the interior walls in the LR, DR and kitchen; we don't like that); etc.

I don't know if we'll find another one we like as much.

That's too bad. It sounds like the price was just too high, for whatever reason.

It also sounds like you need to be a politician with that co-op board. I would still try bringing up the 30% down policy at the next meeting and at least have them discuss it. Perhaps there could be some movement on this policy by the time you are ready to try selling again.

I'm sorry to hear it didn't work out. At least the stress will be gone. That's a positive.

Sue, I think you're wise to let it go for now. Sometimes things are impossibly hard and then they take a quarter-turn and become easy.

I guess you've explored remodeling options (lofts, room divisions) to make the apartment more livable?

Sorry to hear that it didn't work out this time around. You made the right decision to take a break. Maybe next spring the market around here will get better. After all, people need houses to stay in..
Enjoy the holidays with your family!

just curious, how does/did holding an option to buy work? Any why would the seller agree to that..Is it still "for sale" and you have last rights? And what % must be committed of sale price to do so...

You can use a mortgage guy to screen all your callers if you dont want time-wasters. (for free of course)

Talley Sue, I'm also sorry to hear it, but it sounds like taking your co-op off the market now is by far the best decision for you and your family. I hope you will now have time to relax and enjoy the upcoming holidays.

qdognj, I used "option" in a totally non-legal, non-real-estate way.

We had a contract to buy, w/ a contingency on us selling our home. They were willing to extend that contract, with the contingency in place, beyond the initial deadline for money (basically, we covered their maintenance on the apartment for a few months).

it bought us time, but not enough.

I can't think of a mortgage guy who would screen anybody who called about our NYTimes ad!

ok, now i understand...win-win for both parties..but could they have taken another contract even with you in the mix?

no, they couldn't have. The contract w/ us was in force, so I'm assuming that would preclude them entering a contract to sell the same property to someone else. It would not be legal to sign a contract w/ someone else if they had a signed contract w/ us.

They had a couple of opportunities to decline to extend; they were willing to keep waiting, since it wasn't costing them very much.

"All of that made our apartment apparently not worth what we needed to get from it."

Unfortuantely, market conditions do not care one bit about what you "need" to get.

Damm this MEDIA, for scaring away all your buyers.

I have kept up with your story as a "fellow seller" and I'm really sorry things didn't work out. If we hadn't already built another home, we might be doing the same thing right now. You're right that the relief from the showings will be so welcome, I never really felt like I could relax at the other house (at least not from 9AM-9PM). I hope you enjoy the break before you go back on the market!

bigtexan99 wrote: Unfortuantely, market conditions do not care one bit about what you "need" to get.
Damm this MEDIA, for scaring away all your buyers

What an incredibly rude post.
Too bad this Forum doesn't have a filter option.

I didn't think it was so rude, particularly.

bigtexan is right, the market doesn't care about what I need--I can't CHANGE what I need, but the market won't necessarily give it to me.

And, I'm not sure if that "Damn this MEDIA" was sarcastic or not, but actually I do think the media's emphasis on the national situation has created a slow-down, and even a drop, in my local market, that's not necessarily warranted by happenings in my local market.

Co-ops like mine have been going for $430 to $450 for about 2 years. Our NYC economy is pretty much the same as it has been for 2 years. We should be pretty stable. But we aren't.

And, I know someone who was looking to buy (in a diff. neighborhood and price range), and he's pretty much decided to hold because of what he reads in the media.

Unfortunately, those media-generated perceptions BECOME reality.

thanks for all the sympathy, everyone!

Laura1202 would like nothing better than to hold hands and sing Kum Bah Ya.

Look, if you want to keep your had in the sand and ignore market conditions or frank honesty that is your buisness.

Unless you guys wake up and realize market conditions have changed you are going to take an even bigger beating in the spring when the market has further detoriated.

Oh, but wait. Then you will be able to comiserate and tell each other how we should taken those offers last fall because in the spring you will be offered even less!

talley_sue_ nyc wrote: I didn't think it was so rude, particularly

Glad you weren't offended....I was. His "Damm (sic) this MEDIA" comment was absolutely sarcastic and really inappropriate for a thread that YOU started regarding your situation, imo.

(Now see his subsequent post and then tell me he's not rude!)

Sorry to hear you couldn't sell but at least the stress should decrease for now. The market did change rapidly over the summer - just when people are usually out looking, buying and moving into houses, they just stopped or slowed down. But it seems that your place is probably one of the more affordable ones in NYC, so I'm surprised it didn't get more showings and any offers. Like others, I think the 1/3 downpayment probably put off the buyers.

bigtexan99 wrote: Laura1202 would like nothing better than to hold hands and sing Kum Bah Ya. Look, if you want to keep your had in the sand and ignore market conditions or frank honesty that is your buisness. Unless you guys wake up and realize market conditions have changed you are going to take an even bigger beating in the spring when the market has further detoriated. Oh, but wait. Then you will be able to comiserate and tell each other how we should taken those offers last fall because in the spring you will be offered even less!

What exactly was the purpose of the rant you posted above?

I don't believe there is one seller on this Forum with his or her "head in the sand". Just because we don't agree with your assessment of our (diverse and varied) markets (where do you live, San Antonio? @@) doesn't mean we are uninformed or ignoring market conditions.

If you want to set yourself up as some kind of prognosticator with a 100% accurate crystal ball that's your business. But NOBODY knows exactly what the market is going to do and that's the bottom line.

Why do you think I mispelled Damm?

Here is a link that might be useful: damm

Just wanted to say I'm sorry it didn't work out. As one also selling, I know it is an extremely exhausting task both physically and mentally and so disappointing when things don't work out.

Try your best to take a step back from it all, and just recuperate and enjoy the holidays.

our seller just called, DH said; he's disappointed on our behalf, but anxious to get a deal.

he's encouraging us to make a more aggressive effort and think he can make it possible still for us to be able to afford the difference.

I just realized it... you got caught at the top of the market!! Now wonder you are in denial.

The sad fact is you are just greedy. You claim 20% appreciation year after year, but are unwilling to budge and take a reasonable offer.

And contractual obligation don't applyh to you, right? You should be able to switch agents whenever you want.
*****

June 21st... We are at 51 DOM. and no offers. We have lowered the price twice (67K total) and tried an incentive for the buyer's agent. (That was a bust.)
Our new house will be ready on Friday and we are no closer to having our current home sold than we were 7 weeks ago. I never in a million years thought we would be in this position

Sep 24th....
We have already lowered the price $105K (10%+)since we originally listed and for them to think that we would take another $90K price cut....well, that is just not happening.
We're disappointed (of course) but really feel like these were just "low ballers" looking for some spectacular deal. Good luck to them but it's not going to be my house.

Sep 28th
We do need to get as much as possible for the house we're selling since we do already own another home.
When I said "bought high" I meant our new house as we bought at the very height of the craziness of the market here (summer 05), builders were charging the highest prices possible.

Oct 31
Neighbor from Hell quashed your deal.

Bigtexan 99 wrote: another rant.

OK, now you are stalking my posts?

I have been a member here for almost a year and have 178 hits that come up on a search. You'll never get the time back you wasted reading through my posts so you could quote them back to me and to what purpose? Nothing I have said is contradictory and your insults are just that, your RUDE opinion.

I'm not sure exactly what you have against me but please, get a life.

Oh--DH also reported that our broker says he's getting a LOT of foot traffic, but nobody's biting, on any level. The deals we know about haven't been THAT much off the market.

I'm wondering if we *did* so as I was daydreaming upstream about, and say "low price for a fast move," whether we'd get anyone to get off their duff and actually purchase.

Because I'm telling you, they won't buy my apartment for less than that NEXT year. The 3BRs are not going down in value, and since that's the only reason I'd sell, well, i just won't.

I'm not REQUIRED to "take a bath" next year at all, bigtexan. I'm not REQUIRED to sell.

I feel no need to apologize for wanting a particular amount of money from the sale of my home. I can't force the market to give it to me, but I don't need to accept your definition of me as "greedy," nor do I have to accept the dollars the market will give me.

while i respect everyone's opinion, bigtexan has become a real PIA...This person knows exactly what the housing market is going to do,and is happy to ridicule someone who may not share his/her negative view of the housing market.My guess is this poster was fortunate enough to sell high in lare 2005, is renting a 4000 sf home for 2k,and will wait out the market til the very bottom and scoop up the 4000 sf home in SF for 250k...My guess is bigtexan may be a little texan with a big mouth, but i have been wrong before :)

Tally Sue, I think if you make some phone calls you will discover there are countless mortgage guys eager to help fsbos. Every call they screen is a fresh hot lead for them whether they buy your house or someone elses or none at all.
If you want to be successful at fsbo you have to be open to trying ideas that sound strange.

I know what you are going thru talley sue, cuz I too was a seller this past summer.

My realtor's observation is this, "it's not difficult to sell a house, it's difficult to sell a house at CERTAIN price". So very true. When we originally listed in July at 600 (Jan' comp on same model) we got lots of traffic but no offer. Then June comp came in at 585 and we droppedagain to 585. Again lots of traffic but no qualified offer. DH's arguement was the same as yours: "how come pple don't offer less". But they just don't. My realtor's advice :" don't chase the market down." I dropped to 569 and we got multiple offers. Go figure. A neighbor on same street was mad at me for selling so low. :-) She held on her price and is still on the listing. But she didn't have the urgent need to move like we did so she can afford to take her time.

Personally, I think the toughest part in your case is not getting buyer, but to get the buyer than can shell out 140K downpayment. That's tough. Only pple who profitted from the sale of their last house can have that kind of cash. Out here we see a lot pple going into 600K loan w/ 100% financing.

If your house is not commanding the price you expected, can you renegotiate on the other house to make the gap more affordable?? I know that when our house dropped its price, so do other houses on market. In fact, larger houses dropped even more than ours because it's harder to find qualified buyers at higher bracket.

I see a lot of resentment between buyers and sellers. Personally, I feel it doesn't have to be. If you are a seller it's natural to want to get the best price for your product. And ofcourse buyers would want the best bargain. Not everybody has unlimited income and we all need to stretch our dollars to the max. Some seller's need to sell is higher and they are willing to drop more. Some don't. Same thing for buyers. Some buyers are willing to wait longer while others do not.

Since your case it's a trade up and not job relocation, or job loss, or death in the family, or divorce so the need to sell isn't urgent. Also, at least you are not in the position of already buying one and cannot sell the other. That happened to my friend. She had to sell the old house at a lot less and adding to the injury, the builder of her new house is now offering the new phases with incredible incentives (100K upgrade, 120K landscape allowance) which weren't available last year.

I think waiting out the holiday is a good decision. It's stressful to sell. When we were selling, all my kids sleep w/ me in 1 bed because the house has to be show ready at 8am and I didn't have time to make 3 beds & getting the kids ready for school. ;-( We couldn't make dinner until after 7pm because that's when the lock box's closed. Sometimes my realtor even brings out buyers as late as 9pm or 11pm!!

Good luck. I hope the new year would bring you lots more buyers w/ cash in hand. :-) oh..and sorry for the long post.

Perhaps we should all let Talley_Sue relax and recover rather than offering her advice on ways to prolong her house selling agony. By this time, the strain of trying to sell must far outweigh the inconvenience of having only two bedrooms.

Happy Thanksgiving, Talley. You made the right decision, and your life is your own again.

Tough luck Talley Sue, but look at all you have learned. When you get ready to try it again you are going to be one savvy buyer and seller.
As an attorney who handles lots of real estate over 30 years, I have to say that real estate cycles are not just a year long. I'm afraid that cycle is always longer. Its tough to see the bottom or the top until afterwards. The media doesn't really make real estate news or drive buyers or sellers, altho it may look that way. Clients of mine in the mortgage business could see trouble coming months ago across the country, even refis were way down, mortgage brokers I knew did not renew leases on all of their office space last summer.
Its true some areas are better than others, but if you do decide to put your home on the market in early spring, price it low enough to really attract buyers, and challenge the boards 1/3 down policy. I wish you luck.

Kaleberg, you can call it relaxing, I call it quitting.
Tally sue is not getting what she wants, she's giving up in frustration. You mean to tell me there isn't a single person struggling to find an affordable apt in NYC anymore? Ah come on now.

I call it regrouping, reevaluating, and resting.

Talley, have a nice holiday!

bt99 wrote "Why do you think I mispelled damm?"

Well, because you did. You posted a link to a word spelled damN. DamM isn't a word. I guess dammit would probably be considered a word, even though it's slang. But that still doesn't turn damN into damM.

Why do you think I mispelled Damm?

Because you did! Look it up, here's a link

I stand corrected. Must be dyslexia setting in!

Talley Sue, first let me say I am sorry it didn't work out for you. We listed our houses at around the same time last year--you lasted much longer than we did. We took ours off the market in early May. At first we were extremely disappointed, but time heals all wounds. Over the last few months, we've fallen in love with our house again. It's very hard to hear constant feedback about your home (positive and negative) and not get any offers. We started to hate this house. Now we're working on ways to make it better suit our needs and improve our resale appeal. We're adding a second bathroom this winter. The other thing is that some times things happen for a reason. We were all set to buy a bigger, newer, better home six months or so ago--back then my job was super stable with nothing but potential. Now my company is splitting up, and my co-workers and I sit in our offices and try to figure out if we'll make it through the next round of layoffs. Right now, I'm happy to be sitting in my 60-year-old, too small, (but cute) house--it's far more comfortable than the larger mortgage housw we would have bought. I really hope that, over time, you and your family will be able to see this as a positive, not a negative. Relax, enjoy the holidays. This too will pass.

Talley Sue, I'm so sorry it didn't work out right now. You and your family clearly need a break and you're doing the right thing.

You have a great apartment and it's spacious (two bathrooms !) - there must be some creative way to carve out separate spaces for the kids. When you get some energy a talk with a good designer might be a good thing. Refinish your floors, do the little bathroom and kitchen fixes you were talking about. Enjoy your sunny place with the nice garden.

It seems to me that the 3 bedroom apartment is under the same downward price pressure that yours is based on those owners giving you the contract they did and losing out on many prospective buyers all these months and still contacting your DH re new terms.

I don't have a crystal ball but I have to agree with marge that I don't think the market will be better in the spring, I think it will be worse. Today the NYT said that builders are dropping condo/coop plans due to the market and that condo (or coop, or both, I forget which ) inventory is up 70% over last year and buyers are only out there at the very high - multi million - range.

We started to hate this house.

boy, does that resonate! I've been thinking, why would ANYBODY want to buy my apartment? Why do *I* want to live there!

Remember I mentioned our seller called; they want us to get more aggressive on pricing and are willing to do so as well; they just want a sale. They're exiting the market (retiring to their 2nd home out of state), and they don't want to pay broker fees, or expend much energy selling (which of course don't go hand-in-hand; if they keep us as sellers, they don't pay a broker OR do any work FSBO). They're also really nice, and a bit romantic, and I think they liked the idea of being such a perfect opportunity for us (plus they'r epretty sure we'd be approved by their board, since we're neighbors). Not a businesslike outlook, but I think that was a motivation for them, honestly.

Honestly, it's probably not their best move, to drop their price and sell to us. The 3BRs are holding steady. It's the 2's that are dropping. (though I suppose; if they sell to us at $510, it's still more $ in their pocket than a 5% fee on a sale of $530)

Here's a brief history: In Jan & Feb, apartments exactly like mine went for $450 and $439. In early May, we got a bid for $450. (asking prices were $465k for all of these, except for the $439k; its asking price was $439k). About a month and a half ago, another guy on the block for $430k. An apartment just like ours (and estate sale, the guy wants out now) came on the market for $420k (the co-op board pressured him not to list below $400k). He got, and apparently rejected, an offer of $400k.

It is possible the market has dropped by 11% in 6 months?

Anyway, our sellers have said they'd come down in price if it would make the deal. But I'm not so sure it's worth the effort. I think if they list, they can get what we were offering. And I think they can get it before we can get a buyer.

I'm just not ready to face the idea that my place is worth only $400k. Maybe that's foolish of me, but it just seems like a fire sale. And even if we got $400k, by the time we pay the realtor, we'll be borrowing $130,000 (that's *if* they're willing to drop the price)--that's more than we wanted to afford, given that we're now a 1-income family, and the maintenance will be a lot more. We'd really hoped our equity would have a bigger oomph than that.

The thing is, if the market drops, I don't think that will help us; I honestly don't thin the 3BRs are under the same pressure as the 2BRs. There aren't nearly as many of them, for one thing. And people who can afford a 2BR will be more likely to try to reach higher for a 3, which means actually fewer people for us.

Plus, this second wind may all be moot. Frankly, the 3BRs move off the NYTimes website much faster than any of the others. True, their apt. isn't up-to-date renovated, but it's fine. I think they'll get a sale much faster than WE would, even w/ a lower asking price.

Today you don't seem as resigned to staying in your old place as you did a few days ago. What is your DH saying ?

It's not that noone likes your house it's that everyone is afraid to make a move to buy with so much uncertainty about the market. I remember how devastating it was for people who bought in 1989 to wake up a couple of years later with big losses and being unable to get a heloc to renovate and unable to sell because they couldn't get enough to cover their mortgage. It's not your apartment it's the market.

Maybe $400 is a fire sale (and I don't know that) or maybe it's the new reality, but so what if it means you can enjoy the 3 bedroom that you feel is perfect for you. After settling into the new place, you might wonder why you ever hesitated over letting the old place go for less than you wanted. It seems that you don't move often and in the big scheme of things the $130 you have to borrow will seem trivial in a few years.

PS I'm not trying to sway you either way, just playing devil's advocate.

well, I think we're going back in the game.

I called and talked to my mom--always helpful, because she's good at helping me crystallize my thoughts. It's hard to try to put my 8-y-o to bed before his 12-y-o sister, and have him get to SLEEP without her waking him up when she comes in. And DS is sruggling in school, w/ paying attention, etc. I feel like him getting enough sleep is really crucial right now.

And I'd really hate to lose this particular apartment that we've bid on; we'd have to do much less to it, to make it be something we'd like. And the biggie is, that building has ALREADY done all the brickwork that's coming due on the bldgs on the block. i don't want to move into some place that still has the bearing down in the future. And the board is pretty much sane.

So we're going to insist on a much lower asking price, and tell the realtor we'd settle for less. Our neighbors will probably hate us, but there you are.

(It's just frustrating to find out that an apartment w/ only 1 bathroom, and a crummier garden, and not as nice a location, went for $36k more than we'd be able to get; it was more recently and more fancily renovated, but still...)

I'm actually not that optimistic, but I sort of feel that, for our kids' sake (really, for my SON's sake), we need to be able to say we tried the lower price point.

Right now, there's a lot of competition in our exact apartment. There are 2 other apartments for sale in our complex, both w/ lower asking prices. And perhaps better locations, and probably lower percentages down required. So of course any one buyer would pick the others. So I'm not particularly revved up, but at least we can say we TRIED.

I feel like I've been banging my head against a wall. I wanted a lower asking price LONG ago. I wanted DH to find a way NOT to be there when the buyers come (the realtor brought this up, and I said, 'why didn't you stress this to DH MUCH earlier? He thinks because you didnt' really say anything, that it wasn't urgent")

But we'll give it a few more weeks. Sigh.

the other reason I'm not that optimistic is that it's the holiday season--who's going to be looking?

Well, I'm going to be out looking for a house starting next week. We just moved to another state and I want to find a house by February, so I'll be out in the rain and cold, even though it's the holidays. So don't despair. Buyers are out there, somewhere.

I totally understand your frustration with having your home ready for showing all the time. Our house was on the market with me in it for about 3 months and it made me nuts. Yes, it was nice having a clutter-free kitchen and living room and all that, but having to make sure everything was just right before I went to work every day, and putting the dogs outside in the temporary run, and then coming home to find that no one had come by to see it. So disappointing.

Good luck with your selling/buying. Don't give up yet, if it's something you really need to do.

talleysue: the good news is that people who *are* looking during this time of year are usually quite motivated.