They should be able to. I just got a Martha Stewart color matched into Behr over the weekend. Maybe call SW to make sure they absolutely can do it.

There's more to matching paint than just the tint, the base paint also factors in. Years ago I painted a room using a can of paint by Ralph Lauren I bought from home depot. When I went back a couple years later to buy more paint for a second room they said the base had changed so the color could never be exactly the same. But that happens even when you do buy the identical formula using the same base, that's why they say to mix all the cans into a larger bucket. Otherwise there will be subtle differences. It's never exact.
Why do you want to replicate a BenMoore color at SW, why don't you just go to BenMoore? Does the painter only have an account at SW? Home depot has a computer that does a pretty good job matching colors. My local SW store can't afford such a computer so when they try to match colors it always fails.

Is that a BM color or a special mix?
SW has the BM colors in their computer so I would just give them the BM name. It has been my experience that it won't be a perfect match to BM. It will be close though. It depends how fussy you are. I've quit trying to get a match in a difference paint. I buy whatever paint the color came in.
SW colorants and base are different, so I think they may have a different formula to arrive at a BM color.

Here's the same thing posted on the paint forum for you.

What paintguy said. SW is only going to be able to do a calculated match and that is only by the color name or paint chip.

Theres a lot of bright yellow in that mix including the phthalo greeen on the yellow side. Red is a clear red also. They are known for very weak tinting strength. The other tints are very low in quanity, not even near a 1/2 oz, except the white is almost 1 oz. Sounds like you have a mixture of a yellow hue. Looks to be at least a # 2 base with almost 11 oz. of tint added. Just depends on the color of that formula and the tint base used. :)

Thank you all for your replies! There weren't any replies when I finally went to Ben Moore. They couldn't tell me the name of the color based on the formula given. And, the only way they could mix it properly for me was to do it in 5-gal size (what the formula was for, they said). They said they could divide it down to a gallon and still be on-target, but any further down (for a sample quart), they didn't recommend it. Besides, they said they didn't know the base (or something like that).

BTW, this is a color in our apartment complex--the office and clubhouse. It's a lovely golden tan--not too yellow and no undertones that I could discern anywhere. It's the only one I've shown hubby that he loves. All others are "too something or another". The one I'd tentatively chosen is SW Blonde, but he really wanted to find out this particular color, so.....

So.....I bothered the lovely people at the apartment office again today and asked to be taken to the store room to see the paint can (because BM assured me there would be a name on the can). Well, there was only the formula ............but hey, wait! I had a paint stir stick in the car, so I ran and got it and stirred and dipped it in the paint. Dried it and ran to Duron for a match (I like the guys there). Got it, ran home and put it on my 1' x 4' drywall and stuck it in front of the fan to dry. Ran it out 35 miles to the house and hubby says.........after all this trouble........that he likes SW Blonde better. Goes to show that lighting and individual locations DO MATTER very much.

So, my painting choices are due tomorrow. I guess Blonde is the winner for the foyer, GR, kitchen color. Now, what color ceiling? I was going to do Ivoire until today when what the BM guy told me made me question it: He said never to choose a color on the paint strip that was side-by-side--that you need to go up, or down, 2 (or side-ways 2). Huh? Why? Maybe do Blonde at 50%? I do want a ceiling "color", not white. We have 3-piece crown, so I want it to be noticeable. Aaargh. I'm in overload........ Hubby's ready to commit me. He'll be glad when I rake up the sea of paintchips littering the apartment's living room floor.

Wish me luck!

Thanks!
Tracey

Arrrrgh. Paint guy should know better.

Strips of paint colors aren't some kinda ticket out of having to do the work of crafting color harmonies and partnering nuance of paint color to inherent light.

The order of chips and chip strips are not ordered for color harmony. They are arranged in a logical manner for a particular brand's indexing; it's their own color ordering system. It is a system structured for managing color within their own paint world. Some fandecks have similar structures, some are completely unique -- even within the SAME brand. Ever wonder why color numbers from brand to brand or fandeck to fandeck are SO incredibly different? Yep, 'cuz there are varying systems of color order and coding.

If there is any color harmony to be had in the order of the chips or the chip strips, it's a by product of the logic applied to order the colors. Not part of some premeditated scheming to help a girl out.

Now... no one post back and say 'oh-yeah-huh you can use the strips to create a color scheme - even for a whole house because I've done XYZ". I'm just gonna say you simply got lucky or you aren't very picky.

If paint manufacturers had built in some magic to the order of their colors, they'd advertise the bejeesus out of it. They're all looking for the 'silver bullet' process to package their colors for instant, perfect palettes. If there was anything magical in the order of the colors that they could sell as a perfect palette -- trust me -- we woulda all heard about it already.

All of the following tips are insanely reckless:

� always choose the one in the middle
� pick a color and then 'go one up'
� two strips next to each other in sequence will always 'go together' (or, like he said it "side-ways 2)
� if you look at the darkest color on the strip, its color will tell you the undertone of the other colors on the strip

When it comes to the SW strip with Blonde...

If you want to use Ivoire on the ceiling with Blonde walls you can, but remember that color always looks grayer, cooler, and darker when it's viewed on the horizontal above your head (ceiling) as opposed to the vertical (the walls). Ivoire is going to look very similar in tone and value to Blonde - very little contrast.

Test it. If you like the look, then do it.

If you want a color that doesn't look so similar to Blonde, then you could try Buff 7683 - it's clearer and brighter than Navajo and Ivoire.

If you decide you do want a white for the ceiling with Blonde, Dover White is a good option.

Here is a link that might be useful: Podcast about fandecks and paint chips

Thank you for the informative post, funcolors. But, too bad there isn't a "rule" for color dummies like me! I'll check out more of the web site you linked in a few minutes.

I have a SW fandeck, but it doesn't go up to Buff 7683. Darn. I have my list of wall colors made out but have left the ceiling blank for now. I told the builder he could have it by tomorrow morning.

Is there any "rule" about doing, on the ceiling, a percentage of the wall color paint? Would 50% Blonde still be too close to the wall color given what happens when it's on the horizontal? 25%?

There is a model home I was in that I thought was very nice. They used the Blonde paint strip. Foyer was Blonde while the LR and DR were deeper shades on the same strip. The trim was Navajo white. The ceiling was lighter than the wall color, and did not look the same as the trim, so I guessed they probably used Ivoire (since they seemed to be using practically the whole strip). I'm not sure because I couldn't reach the ceiling to hold a paint strip up to it.

Oh, the trim will be Dover white (I THINK), so I don't want the same on the ceiling (OR, maybe the ceiling at 110% or so of Dover White?). I do want it at least a bit different.

I'm stressing way too much, but I don't want to have to repaint when moving in. Especially the BIG spaces like the foyer.

Thanks so much.
Tracey

Cutting formulas is risky business.

You don't know what you're going to get until you do it. Pretty much have to get Color To Go jugs made up and test.

There are all kinds of wonky methods to arriving at a ceiling color - I'm not particularly fond of any of 'em. They're too unpredictable and abstract. From 'adding a cup of paint color to a can of white' to requesting 'a tint of wall color' for the ceiling.

Every color will 'cut' or 'multiply' differently. Again, just because one color worked nicely @ a certain percentage is no indication how it's going to work out for the color you want to use -- in your space.

Buff is in the newer, supplemental Concepts in Color palette at SW - it's not part of the standard color specifier.

A friend told me not to use adjacent paints on the paint strip is because there's not a significant enough difference between the two. I did the same thing in my dining room and kitchen, and 4 out of 5 people couldn't tell that the kitchen was a lighter color. ( (I "think" the colors at the time were Harmonic Tan and Burlap.)

And to think how we agonize over paint!

tracey,

I don't think I saw anywhere mentioned what size ceiling height you may be talking about. The reason I ask , if the ceiling is say 10'or over , I would possibly give some thought on using a darker hue, especially using the blond and dover white as your trim color. I do like Ivorie used on ceilings.

From the BM decks, using the strips of hue colors-numbers they have listed on each strip consist of a family of the same universal machine tints. The same colorants are used but as the tint base changes so will the amount of the same colorant used to dispense in the can. As an example your #1 base will have more fillers, opacifiers and Ti02 and as your base # goes down 2, 3, 4,&possibly 5 there will be no fillers and not Ti02. The can needs to rely on the large amount of colorant to the base. There are reasons for that. The way one is the can is only allowed to accept a certain ratio amount and if one uses more or less to try and get a darker or lighter % one could run into adhesion problems. The paint not being able to fully bind the resins because of the overload or lack there of of colorants. Also some stores will have red & yellow tint bases from the get go because of some difficult hiding reds/yellows. In addition the universal colorants from the dispenser contains very very little binder at all. They go poof and they dry off to just a powder form. That is another reason why going lighter or darker may or may not be the final color one expected. As the amount of Ti02 changes in the can (which will make your new formula more opaque if going lighter and going darker depends how much tweaking they can do before comprising the paint. SW coloring system used to also be set up the same way as in the family of same tints . I use mainly BM.
Oh, and I know everyone is different and the main thing is lighting but I have had to repaint some of my customer's rooms that were painted with Blond. The color change was mainly in the evening hours. Went from a bright lemony yellow to a not no pleasant color. The main thing is where your home is positioned , the surroundings , and the lighting. Some people really love the color and some don't . That's why they make so many flavors of ice cream. :D (big grin).

AAAAARRRRGGGHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's too complicated for me, and I'm getting more scared, not less ;-)

Some of you are too color-smart for me, but I think I understand a bit more than I previously did, so thank you.

The ceiling in the foyer is 19' high. The rest of the downstairs is 10'. Upstairs is 9'.

Now I'm scared of Blonde going psycho on me at night. I've never been out to the house in late evening (no lights in the house yet). But the weird thing is, Blonde--to me--has never been a bright lemony yellow. (They make too many "flavors" of everything! People like me should never be given too many choices)

I'll run by and pick up some new paint chips to see what Buff looks like.......... I'm headed out to the house to see if inspiration will hit, but I think the painters are ready to get the paint.

Thanks.
T

Can't resist this one! I don't have a clue what most of you paint experts are talking about when when it comes to bases, hues, colorants, etc etc etc. Does that make me a dummy? No - it just means I am lazy and do not want to STUDY PAINT and all it's nuances.

Funcolor's advice is the best I have every practiced - YOU ARE NOT GOING TO KNOW HOW IT IS GOING TO LOOK IN YOUR ENVIRONMENT UNTIL YOU TRY IT. Sorry Funcolors, those are probably not your exact words, but I think that is what you usually mean.

I get very little direct light in my house due to shade trees, porch roofs, etc. I was convinced that Believable Buff was the PERFECT color for my LR - just enought gold to be pretty at night, just enought soft tan to look cozy at night, a perfect blend with my drapes, sofas, and rugs. I based this on the fact that it was PERFECT IN EVERY ROOM IN MY DAUGHTER'S HOUSE.

Well guess what? It looked like "crap" in my house (using large sample boards). I don't have the nice skylight that she has in her FR; I don't get the morning sun in my LR; I don't get the nice evening sun in the afternoon in any room.

So you just gotta sample and sample in YOUR SPACE.

Tuesday

Couldn't have said it better myself! :~D

yeah, like that perfect paint color in the apt's clubhouse that had me create this post. I wanted so badly for it to be the one, but in the end, it didn't look the same at our place. I'm gonna have to stay away from the office long enough for them to forget my quest to know their color--so I don't have to tell them I didn't use it after all.

"Finalized" the paint order today. Fingers crossed.
Tracey

Hey... I just read your posts. I don't know if this is encouragement or advice. Funcolors and Tuesday are hitting nails on the head.

I am a real estate agent and have several homes, many are rented. My personal home has large porches and my main family room/living room has 13 foot ceiling with an octagonal ceiling trey with lots of lighting. I used on this high ceiling 'walls'that climb upward a half & half mixture to my main ceiling paint. I used Behr's ceiling paint and had them TINT it a color. They try to tell you that they don't tint their ceiling paint, but they DO! I had them tint it some soft white, I'll look it up if someone wants to know. I used this color to cut with the wall color half and half. It turned out nice. I think I have a photo online still from when we were building.

Here is a link that might be useful:

tracey,
I knew I remembered you from somewhere. Aren't you the one that was doing their basement and had some round columns to paint. How did that ever go for you? Were you able to complete your project?

tuesday, exactly the lighting, roof hangs, shade trees, surroundings in general will make a huge difference in the paints appearance in the evening hours. My customers loved the blond paint tracey was talking about, but when evening came around that was a completely different story. Repaint those walls. :D

And just to touch base, anyone thinking they are getting the real deal from "my perfect color" --should think again.
They will do calculated matches and or lighter/darker equivalents. Ever wonder why you don't see the BM color formulas on there now--hmmmmmmmm. So, if you decide to try mail order because you don't have a BM dealer close buy- I would rethink and order from a respected BM. They also use calculations for other companies as well. Just like your local stores do, but they will not have those formulas up there now. Just something extra added.
good luck of your paint job. :)

I'm not sure how My Perfect Color fits in with the original post and topic but that's okay.

myperfectcolor.com is an online subsidiary of Breslow Home Design Center & Benjamin Moore Signature Store in New Jersey. Here's their link: Breslow

Both Jason and Dana Shaw have provided me with stellar support and customer service -- Jason was actually one of the three professional sources I contacted to confirm the information I shared in the Burst of Color podcast using Benjamin Moore fandecks. Let me introduce everyone to Jason: My Perfect Color's Jason Shaw

When you order from MPC, the cans come with labels with full formulas just like you walked into Breslow and bought it -- just like you walked into ANY Benjamin Moore store.

I have new blog post going up on Monday to educate people about how ordering paint and color online really works. I'll be sure to include pictures of my last shipment from MyPerfectColor as well as stuff from Ellen Kennon and Farrow & Ball.

Words about ordering online can be helpful, but there's nothing like a gallery of pictures to show people what it's really all about -- I'll have some pix up for you guys on Monday...

funcolors,

I believe my next to last sentence sums it up ( Just something extra added. )

Yes, it does relate to paint formula conversions when it was mentioned by the original member % and making lighter; so yes not directly but certainly in the same subject line.
Yes, I am aware of the Breslow Decorating Center. It is all there to read if one wants to spend the time. I can tell you for a fact you won't be getting the "real" or "true" affinity colors. Those are encapsulated waterborne 100% acylic colorlock pigments.They are stictly proprietary and exclusive to ONLY BM. The calculated matches that one can get can be bought at one the paint stores from the tint machines just the same. From my paint store I get computer labels and extra copies for my records. Nothing new. So buyer be ware and just know what you are buying "online". Do your homework.
You have a wonderful evening fun. ;)

Oh , and the waterborne affinity (Aura Pigments) are just that waterborne and only 100* , the best of colorants are used to make these tints - They certainly are not the universal tints that are used to make all the other paints.
:)

"I can tell you for a fact you won't be getting the "real" or "true" affinity colors."

Since you know it "for a fact" there is nothing I can say - or show you - to change what you believe to be true.

Nope; because I definitely know different. Notice you don't see anything on their website advertising BM paint formulas anymore. But hey, I don't spend a lot of time on the www . I go to a real store to do my business. If you feel comfortable using them, by all means continue to do so. I just choose not to .

(Unlimited access to all Benjamin Moore color formulas
50%-off all paint-brand to paint-brand conversions
and 50%-off all non-Benjamin Moore color formulas)

So this is my last response to you. I can see it is not going anywhere. You are truly a gifted person and I sincerely wish you the best. :)

That was me, Decorative walls! That was 3 years and 1 old cat ago. I survived painting the columns, but as I recall at the time, I was stressing over using Pro Classic, which I shopped using after doing the door jambs with it (went w/ regular semi-gloss for the rest). The columns went fine as did the rest of the basement. We got to enjoy it for 2 years before hubby took a job relocation to NC (from IL). Sold the house in 7 days, full price--and the basement was a big selling point. Glad we finished it.

And here I am again, starting from scratch. At least I have the internet for this build. I couldn't do it without someone here to bug with my questions and insecurities. Hubby has gotten to where I think he'd rather stay and work late at work than come to the apt with a house-obsessed wife and a sea of paint chips spread out on the floor.

Thanks everyone!

My name is Dana Shaw, co-owner of Myperfectcolor a Breslow company.

Â

Myperfectcolor / Breslow Home Design Center is a Benjamin Moore dealer that has been selling paint since 1924.  We are a Signature Store which is Benjamin MooreÂs highest ranking dealer.  We sell all the new paints with the newest technology mixing machines  like the custom equipment required for the Affinity colors.  I want to thank you, Funcolors, for your understanding and articulate description of how our industry works.  Tracy, funcolors had some great advice for you and it is rather simple, see it, test it, love it :-)

Â

For further assurance about our integrity and quality, here is a link from Benjamin MooreÂs Dealer Locator that lists Breslow which owns and operates myperfectcolor

Here is a link that might be useful: Breslow Bm dealer locator

Yes, I knew the Breslow store was a BM dealer. I was talking about the "my perfect color" website. It does not state

((Unlimited access to all Benjamin Moore color formulas
50%-off all paint-brand to paint-brand conversions
and 50%-off all non-Benjamin Moore color formulas) .

Wasn't talking about Breslows (even though the same). This was only being directed toward the other website. So, off to work. Can't stay on computer. :)

Sorry to butt in on your conversation, I am learning so much from you all, but I have a question for Funcolors. Earlier you stated not to look at the deepest color on the paint strip to see the undertones of the lighter colors. That is what I have been doing. Can you explain this further?

Wow, looks like Mr. Shaw and myperfectcolor is owed an apology - big time.

ctlane - sure, I can explain why looking at the darkest color doesn't work.

Even when it looks as though a strip of color is a nice, even, orderly stepping down (or up) from darkest to lightest, you have to consider how many factors change to arrive at those 5 or 7 colors on the strip.

It's not just a backing down or reducing in the amount of colorants. That's why 'letting down' a color is so different from 'cutting' formulas.

In the process of letting down the formula from darkest to lightest, various characteristics in the actual colors can shift - maybe ever so slightly.

Viewing color in the context of a strip chip skews the reality of each individual color.

When you take a color off the strip, out of that context and into the context of a three-dimensional room and unique inherent light, that new context will very likely enhance different parts of that color's character thus 'giving' it a different undertone than it appeared to have while on the strip next to the other paint colors.

When you are working with the darker colors, the darkest color on the strip indicating undertone has a better chance of holding true.

Most people don't choose to use the darker colors on the strip. We mostly choose the midtones to lighter colors - the range on the strip where colorant + base combinations become more complicated. This area is where there isn't one colorant in the mix that will unquestionably dominate taking the lead over all the other colorants to define an undeniable undertone.

Those more complex, less direct, colors don't have such clear-cut undertones. Their undertones can only be established in the context of a room and among the other elements.

Thank you Funcolors for taking the time to explain. Makes sense.

Oh good, glad it makes sense. You asked a very good question that a lot of people were probably wondering about - so thanks for bringing it up.

Thanks everyone--I've learned a lot here.

My paint colors are decided....except for the ceiling. They are still priming it in Ivoire, but after picking up a paint chip of Buff, and asking the nice paint guy his opinion too, AND my builder's wife/decorator saying she liked Buff also, I think I might just change to it.

Will it also look good in rooms with walls done in SW Avenue Tan or BM Van Courtland Blue (upstairs bedrooms)? I didn't think I'd like Ivoire with the AT, but thought it'd look good with the blue. However, Buff might solve the problem.

I'm scared to see the colored primer on the walls this weekend! It'll be much more color than I'm used to. The DR will be SW Soulmate (above the wainscoting); tray ceiling in Blonde. The Study will be Valspar Tree Moss, both above the wainscoting and within the coffered ceiling squares. The GR will be Blonde like the foyer, but the ceiling within the coffered beams will be Duron Basque Brown (BB). I'm getting worried just typing the colors! Master bedroom is Avenue Tan with BB inside the tray ceiling. I'm wondering if I should've done Fenland (one color deeper) in there since the bath is also in AT. I also have BB in the powder room and laundry room. I then re-used AT in most of the upstairs space, except for hubby's computer room in blue (which might have to change if it's too blue--he wanted a more steel gray blue, but he loved the paint chip. I had enough worries with the rest of the house; he was responsible for HIS room--aren't I mean?). Anyhoo...........truth will tell this weekend. Now on to the exterior color! And here I thought I was finished with my paint chips......

They are still priming it in Ivoire, but after picking up a paint chip of Buff, and asking the nice paint guy his opinion too, AND my builder's wife/decorator saying she liked Buff also, I think I might just change to it.

Well I'm glad I tossed Bluff out there as a suggestion.

It's so much better when people don't use the strips as color scheme guides. Like I said before, there may be a built in harmony but honestly that's the way amateurs do it -- or designers in a hurry, or painters, or well-meaning paint guys.

BTW, Dana popped me an email. The accusations recklessly lobbed out there at myperfectcolor.com are - for the record - baseless, slanderous, and grossly misinformed. I'm glad he was allowed to drop in and defend himself. He and his businesses are truly owed an apology.

Yeah, thanks funcolors for the Buff suggestion!! Yet another "paint guy" chose Buff over Ivoire yesterday evening, so Buff it will be.

And I just have to say, the people at my local Duron have been so nice to me. My first time in, they gave me a handful of supposedly 1-use only (and 1 per household) coupons for 2-for-the-price-of-1 sample quarts, and they keep giving me back my coupons after I use them! How sweet is that?

My builder's wife called this morning to say the colored primer is up and she thinks I'm going to like it all. I'll go out today or tomorrow (they're working today, and I like to be there by myself). I do already know I'll change 1 room's color--hubby's Van Courtland Blue. She said it was too blue (he wanted more "steel" than blue, but he picked the chip). I'm going to try SW Foggy Day. Guess I shouldn't have left him out to dry with not sampling more blues for him :-) esp. since I'd be the one having to repaint it for him after moving in.

Anyway, thanks everyone. Sorry for the tone some of the discussion took.........

Well, I saw the colors..... (primer tinted with the chosen paint colors).

The Blonde is too dark! I could live with it in the foyer, but I think that in the great room, it looks too dark, esp. with the Basque Brown (reddish brown) within the coffer beam ceiling (12' high). I think I need to go lighter, so that means Ivoire or some other similar color (but I don't have time to keep sampling). I do like the way the Blonde looks in the kitchen / b'fast area, though, so I'll keep it in there.

If I used Ivoire on the walls, could I still use Buff or am I back to square one looking for a ceiling color? Why aren't colors simple?

BUT, on a good note--I think SW Soulmate (eggplant, to me) is the perfect shade (in the DR), and I also really like the mossy green in the study.

Any suggestions? I'm ready to pull out hair........

Thanks.

Maybe: Great Room - Believable Buff walls, Basque Brown in coffer.

Believable Buff is different from "Buff". I've used it with various colors on the Blonde Strip. It is definitely a lighter option. At least "test" with a chip.

Does Believable Buff sometimes read "green" like I've seen Whole Wheat do in some lighting?

It will need to flow from the Blonde in the foyer; luckily, though, no shared wall so I can change color.

I'm going to run get a test jug of BB and Ivoire.

Thanks.